panamair
Posts: 3767
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DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:12 pm

In addition to ATL-POS which was discussed here a few days ago, DL will also be starting new JFK-PUJ and ATL-STI service starting Dec 9. Both services will be daily, with an MD88 on JFK-PUJ and a 738 on ATL-STI.

Here's the official press release regarding the start of all 3 routes:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060724/102613.html
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:30 pm

I feel sorry for the load planners on that JFK-PUJ flights as our MD88's don't do so well weight wise.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
CALMSP
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 pm

they dont stand a chance!!!!!!!! we have a hard time on our 757s and 738s.........tring to get everything on there.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:05 am

December 9th is still 4.5 months away, if loads are promising by then DL will hopefully put a 738 on that route. Nonetheless, good to see these additional 2 routes. Can anyone actually still count all destinations served from ATL? I can't.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:14 am

With all of DL's financial problems, how do they do it?? Expansion comes at a cost, and during this difficult period, they seem to have embarked upon an unprecedented level of worldwide expansion. Enlighten me.... Smile
Above and Beyond
 
airmailer
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 1):
I feel sorry for the load planners on that JFK-PUJ flights as our MD88's don't do so well weight wise.

I didn't even know that DL flies to PUJ in the first place.

I might just have to hop down there for a week this winter.
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:21 am

It's really not that expensive to set up shop on one of these Carib airports. You pay some small fees. Lease some gate space. The airports make it feasible because the want and need the business. Labor is cheap.

As far as Delta's financials. They have some of the lowest cost in the industry and industry standard cash on hand for their size.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 4):
With all of DL's financial problems, how do they do it?? Expansion comes at a cost, and during this difficult period, they seem to have embarked upon an unprecedented level of worldwide expansion. Enlighten me....

Simple: Delta isn't actually expanding, they are just re-positioning their assets, read: planes. Most of the international expansion comes through cuts on domestic routes, and to a certain degree also through increased aircraft utilization, be it through shorter turn times, later/earlier additional flights in the day, or more read eyes. Of course, opening new international destinations means startup costs, but here DL has the advantage that they already are in a number markets that they now connect from a second hub (e.g. STI, ATH, SVO), or where they have Skyteam partners that can help them there (e.g. BUD, KBP), or where there is so much money potential that it would be stupid not to start a route (TLV, JNB).
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2):
they dont stand a chance!!!!!!!! we have a hard time on our 757s and 738s.........tring to get everything on there.

Then the Mad Dog sounds perfect. AA flys a 757 on this same market already. DL will have to contend with less seats to fill if demand is an issue.
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 1):
I feel sorry for the load planners on that JFK-PUJ flights as our MD88's don't do so well weight wise.

Well, PUJ is also a very different market from SDQ and STI - it is not VFR-dependent and so would not necessarily get the usual "everything but the kitchen-sink" bags that are found often on SDQ and STI....
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
Both services will be daily, with an MD88 on JFK-PUJ and a 738 on ATL-STI.

JFK-PUJ is not going to last at all. It is one thing to connect the dots, but do a little research first. JFK-PUJ is going to going out heavy with Cargo and full of low yielding Y class tickets. This reaks of disaster. Try a 763 and you may have a bit of success. This route is not going to last long with a MD-80. But then again what do the route planners in ATL know about the VFR between NYC and D.R.? IF CO couldnt make EWR-BGI work with a 73G/738 Delta is not going to make PUJ work with a MD88.

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 8):
Then the Mad Dog sounds perfect. AA flys a 757 on this same market already.

AA is also aware of the VFR factor in the market as well..  wink 

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
it is not VFR-dependent

Tell that to the daily VFR traffic that fills up JFK-PUJ at AA!

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
would not necessarily get the usual "everything but the kitchen-sink" bags that are found often on SDQ and STI....

Anything to D.R./P.R. form the NYC area goes out full with Cargo and hungry for yields. That is why AA operates so many 767, 300, 757 into the market.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
BALAX
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 10):
AA is also aware of the VFR factor in the market as well..

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
it is not VFR-dependent

Tell that to the daily VFR traffic that fills up JFK-PUJ at AA

Dude, the region has minimal population. Closest "bigger" town is Higuey which is about 45 min to 1 hour away. Don't think VFR plays a role in this route.
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:37 am

Some posts are so wrong on so many levels that it's better to just walk on by and not look. Like a car wreck on the highway. You really can't help the person. He needs much more help than you can devote to him.
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 10):
JFK-PUJ is not going to last at all. It is one thing to connect the dots, but do a little research first. JFK-PUJ is going to going out heavy with Cargo and full of low yielding Y class tickets. This reaks of disaster. Try a 763 and you may have a bit of success. This route is not going to last long with a MD-80. But then again what do the route planners in ATL know about the VFR between NYC and D.R.?

The DL "route planners" in ATL are some of the brightest individuals I've ever met, so stop insulting people you don't even know. I'm sure they've done more than a "little research"...

As for your suggestion that they try a 763 first...why would you put one of the largest aircraft in your fleet on to a new "low-yield" route? DL does not have 763s just laying around...they would have to pull it off a route that probably needs it to carry large loads of higher-yield traffic. Why not start a new low-yield route with the smallest mainline aircraft you have?

But then again what do the route planners in ATL know?
 
BALAX
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:21 am

This could also have to do with the rotating of airplanes. I believe ATL-PUJ is now operated by a MD-88, so it might make sense to planning.
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 14):
I believe ATL-PUJ is now operated by a MD-88,

ATL-PUJ will be upgraded to a 757 for the winter season though....

Quoting BALAX (Reply 11):
Dude, the region has minimal population. Closest "bigger" town is Higuey which is about 45 min to 1 hour away. Don't think VFR plays a role in this route.

That's what I thought...
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 13):
The DL "route planners" in ATL are some of the brightest individuals I've ever met,

Yes, that is why they are in financial woes..

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 13):
As for your suggestion that they try a 763 first...why would you put one of the largest aircraft in your fleet on to a new "low-yield" route?

Ask Continental why EWR-BGI did not work..
Ask Jet Blue why JFK-SDQ did not work..

Quoting BALAX (Reply 14):
I believe ATL-PUJ is now operated by a MD-88, so it might make sense to planning.

ATL-PUJ is non VFR thusfore a MD88 is better fit. We invite you to visit the American Airlines terminal on any given day at JFK to view the lines with baggage that fill the 75's, A3's, and 76's to D.R. and P.R.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:17 am

Hey MalpensaSFO (or Kahala777 or whatever your name is today) - you might want to re-read what you've written in previous threads:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2828681

Boy how your tune has changed. Did someone get access to your computer, or are we talking to one of your alternate personalities today?

Didn't your "unnamed" DL sales rep tip you off on these routes before they were made public?

From now on, could you just pass along your suggestions to your anonymous sales reps at DL and other various insiders that you are so buddy-buddy with and just leave the rest of us alone?
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 17):

He's been flip-flopping between his dual personalities quite a bit in recent months, so often that I sometimes think he has his period  Yeah sure  Wink . Best thing to do is just ignoring him.
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:21 am

There is no gate at PUJ just a hut  Smile
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
We invite you to visit the American Airlines terminal on any given day at JFK to view the lines with baggage that fill the 75's, A3's, and 76's to D.R. and P.R.

While people watching in the terminal at MIA when these flights are checking in is always a treat (lots of duct tape), ATL will not have the same VFR group. It'll be those Southern dentists in Aloha shirts and flip flops with their preppy wives and 2.3 kids and Gucci rollerbags. Of course I am generalizing (so no offense anyone, please) but my point is that ATL-PUJ/SDQ etc. will pull a very different crowd than those in MIA.  Smile
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
Quoting LawnDart (Reply 13):
The DL "route planners" in ATL are some of the brightest individuals I've ever met,

Yes, that is why they are in financial woes..

If you think that DL's financial problems can be attributed to the route planners, you have very limited knowledge of the airline business, at least as far as DL is concerned. DL's financial problems stem from many various sources, but are mostly the direct result of Leo Mullin's crack team of corporate criminals.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
ATL-PUJ is non VFR thusfore a MD88 is better fit. We invite you to visit the American Airlines terminal on any given day at JFK to view the lines with baggage that fill the 75's, A3's, and 76's to D.R. and P.R.

ATK-PUJ is doing rather well, and for the winter season, it will be upgraded to a 757 for the additional capacity. JFK-PUJ will be launched as a new route against a competitor that has been entrenched in the Caribbean market for quite a while. Again, if you think DL route analysts should enter that market with one of their largest aircraft, you have very limited knowledge of the airline business. Let's see how it does first, and then maybe next year DL can upgrade it to a 757 (*DL does not operate very many flights to the Caribbean with anything larger than a 757).
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:33 am

Random observation: DL will now fly from Atlanta to two Santiagos, in addition to two San Joses and two Manchesters. Must get confusing sometimes at check-in...  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 20):
Of course I am generalizing (so no offense anyone, please) but my point is that ATL-PUJ/SDQ etc. will pull a very different crowd than those in MIA.

Very little VFR on MIA-PUJ and very little tourist traffic in general on ATL-SDQ, which is mainly connecting VFR and business traffic, just like MIA/FLL/JFK-SDQ flights are.

The VFR markets to the Dominican Republic are SDQ, STI, and, to a lesser extent, POP. Not to say that there is no VFR on PUJ flights, there is some, but it isn't to the extent of SDQ/STI.
a.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 22):
Random observation: DL will now fly from Atlanta to two Santiagos, in addition to two San Joses and two Manchesters. Must get confusing sometimes at check-in...

DL also serves two Portlands from ATL and even better THREE Columbuses:

Columbus, OH (CMH)
Columbus, GA (CSG)
Columbus, MS (GTR)
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 24):
DL also serves two Portlands from ATL and even better THREE Columbuses:

And not to forget 2 Manchesters:
Manchester, UK (MAN)
Manchester, NH (MHT)

Still waiting for DL to start service to BHX from ATL  Wink .
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 24):
DL also serves two Portlands from ATL and even better THREE Columbuses

Wow, good call! I also forgot about the two Albanys (GA and NY)...any others?

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 25):
And not to forget 2 Manchesters

I got those in my first post!

[Edited 2006-07-24 21:06:27]
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 26):
I got those in my first post!

Damn, I need some new glasses. Nonetheless I stand by my comment that DL should serve BHX  Silly . Or at least to Frankfort, KY. Okay, the other one is written Franfurt, but it's close enough  Wink .
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 26):

Wow, good call! I also forgot about the two Albanys (GA and NY)...any others?

Two Charleston's, WV and SC, though a lot of US airlines do. Two Fayettevilles, AR and NC. Two Greenvilles, SC and MS. Two Jacksons, MS and WY(not served from ATL). DL serves a lot of cities with the same name, especially from ATL.

Jeremy
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 28):
Two Jacksons, MS and WY(not served from ATL)

Actually, DL does operate ATL-JAC nonstop, albeit only 3x weekly and only 7 out of 12 months.
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 28):
Two Charleston's, WV and SC, though a lot of US airlines do. Two Fayettevilles, AR and NC. Two Greenvilles, SC and MS. Two Jacksons, MS and WY(not served from ATL). DL serves a lot of cities with the same name, especially from ATL.

Very impressive!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
PCEX
Posts: 12
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RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:39 am

PUJ doesn't have that many cargo coming in and out. The only cargo that get there is on the belly and it is limited. The airport is for tourist and doesn't like cargo aircrafts.

The average load for the NYC-PUJ flight is about 120 bags on a 757, I don't think that would be a problem on the MD88. As previously said, PUJ is NOT VFR. For the yield part, most airlines sell bulk of seats which are paid by the touroperator and the rest of the leftovers are sold at hughe premiums which in fact makes money for the airlines.

Remember, PUJ is hot in real estate sales, a lot of golf courses and new villas are building up, business traffic although small is increasing and airlines are making money on this destination.
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: DL To Start ATL-STI And JFK-PUJ In Dec

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
ATL-PUJ is non VFR thusfore a MD88 is better fit. We invite you to visit the American Airlines terminal on any given day at JFK to view the lines with baggage that fill the 75's, A3's, and 76's to D.R. and P.R.

Don't think of the D.R. as a small nation guy. Though a very populated island, only the big cities play a role in VFR traffic, hence STI and SDQ receiving widbody services. If there was such a huge demand for JFK-PUJ VFR traffic, then AA would gladly place an A300 on this route, the runway is long enough PUJ receives tons of widebody services from mainly charter airlines, meaning it's mostly a touristy region.