OttoPylit
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JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:32 am

For all of you JAX a.nutter's out there, I hear from some friends at DL in JAX that the JAX Renovation to extend the Concourses has begun 3 days ahead of schedule. JIA maintenance began tearing down Gate A-4 and will soon spread to A-2. Not really tearing down, but disconnecting computer wires and such. Official tearing down is scheduled for 27July06. It will then leave Delta with 3 operating gates. Gate A-1, A-3, and Gate A-6, inherited from TWA. The A-4 gate podium will be put back up at A-6 and the Delta Crown Room Club will still be open to Medallion members. Will be interesting to see how DL handles all the RON flights in the evening. I would expect to see some flights pushed back to a taxiway embankment or to the end of B Concourse, if they can squeeze in with the UA RON's.

Its finally happening. Hopefully, it will be quick. That gate A-6 is the most hated gate in the airport. TWA owned the jetway, when TWA was bought by AA, AA did not take the jetway and it has become an extra gate needed for DL. Only problem is, TWA still officially owns the gate, as AA did not absorb it when buying up TW. So DL cannot fix the jetway, nor can the airport touch it either. Quite a sticky situation there.



OttoPylit
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Ezra
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Thread starter):
That gate A-6 is the most hated gate in the airport. TWA owned the jetway, when TWA was bought by AA, AA did not take the jetway and it has become an extra gate needed for DL. Only problem is, TWA still officially owns the gate, as AA did not absorb it when buying up TW. So DL cannot fix the jetway, nor can the airport touch it either. Quite a sticky situation there.

Can you explain this further? If TWA no longer exists, how can they still "own" this gate? And why can't the airport do anything about it?
 
OttoPylit
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting Ezra (Reply 1):
Can you explain this further? If TWA no longer exists, how can they still "own" this gate? And why can't the airport do anything about it?

Well, for the most part, airport authorities build and run the terminals, and also own the gates and jetways, but lease them to the airlines. Well, in this scenario, TWA purchased the JETWAY(sorry, should have made that clear in the post). I'm not sure if it was purchased from the airport or purchased separately and installed, but in any case, they owned the jetway, and decided who and when any maintenance would happen with it. Well, TWA was never very big in JAX. They had the last 2 gates at the end of Concourse A, but only ever used 1. They had about 3 DC-9/717 flights a day. So not much was never really needed of the jetway, as compared to raising/lowering, extending/compacting, etc. Well, after TWA's purchase by AA, AA rejected the jetway(it was all the way on the other side of the airport) and did not make it part of the purchase. So, on paper, at least, the jetway is still owned by TWA, even though TWA no longer exists. It's kind of like someone still owning their property even after they are deceased. The airport maintains it cannot do anything to the jetway unless it is allowed to by the defunct TWA. And since that cannot happen, it could be possible to get some kind of court-ordered thing to switch ownership, but that is money that the airport would care not to spend. They prefer to spend money on stupid works of art and lining the pockets of the directors. The airport DOES rent the GATE space to Delta, and just turns its head in regards of the use of the jetway itself.

The jetway is in very poor shape. I used to use it when I worked in JAX. It is very slow moving up to a larget aircraft(and I'm talking snail-like), the bottom wheel steering does not always function properly, and it sometimes takes a mind of its own. I was with a former coworker before as she pulled the jetway up to an airplane and it did not stop, slamming hard into the aircraft. Fortunately, no damage was done. And DL in JAX will have to live with it for a while. no 



OttoPylit
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DAL767400ER
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Thread starter):
It will then leave Delta with 3 operating gates. Gate A-1, A-3, and Gate A-6, inherited from TWA.

Well, good thing then that DL has cut back so much on widebody flights  Silly . Will be interesting to see how they will fit a 763 at A6, and in case of a delay, a 757 at A-3 (I don't believe A1 can handle 757s, correct?).
 
flyinryan99
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:51 am

How far out are they extending Concourse A? I didn't know they were doing any work down there...otto...could you please do a quick rundown of what they are doing there for me?

Thank you.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Will be interesting to see how they will fit a 763 at A6, and in case of a delay, a 757 at A-3 (I don't believe A1 can handle 757s, correct?).

During my gate agent days, it was possible to park aircraft at any gate, and even narrowbodies at A1. When I first started with DL, I used to love working the flights at A1, which were usually Mad Dog service to CVG or 757 service to DFW. Now that the terminal was renovated for new screening measures and such, only RJ's can fit into the space at A1. You can still fit larger aircraft at A-3, up to a 757, no widebodies. NW would freak if you did. They wouldn't be able to fit their precious 319's in. LOL And yes, A6 will handle the widebody 763's. However, more of a problem is where they will fit all the RJ's that overnight in JAX. So far, that will be 5 RJ's as well as 2 mainline aircraft. The mainlines will get A3 and A6, but where are you going to stick 5 CRJ's? You could maybe fit 2 at A-1, but thats it, unless you put up a blastwall to keep from incinerating the bagrooms. They will be that close.

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 4):
How far out are they extending Concourse A? I didn't know they were doing any work down there...otto...could you please do a quick rundown of what they are doing there for me?

Sure. First, let me give you a map of the airport, if you don't already know what it looks like. This was the best one I could find.

JAX" target=_blank>http://www.gofox.com/flights/airportmaps.php?code=JAX


Ok, basically, what will happen is that Concourse A is to be extended further out. It currently has 7 gates and I think the master plan is for 10 or 12. I'm not sure if C Concourse will get much renovation, as that is where the International Arrival and Departures lounges/Customs are located. At the end of B, there is currently a flat, ground level area. Its design was more of a commuter terminal there. Ground level boarding and about 7 seperate doors to the outside of the terminal. Well, they basically want to expand Concourse B longer put a concourse on top of that(right where B9 and B13 stand on the map), forming somewhat of a "T" of B Concourse. By doing so, it allows more gates for future airlines. By doing so, they will have to also lay down more ground for the tarmac as well.

They have a very nice model of it as soon as you walk into the JIA terminal front. This will be the first "major" renovation the airport will have had since it was built, basically.



OttoPylit
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DAL767400ER
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 5):
The mainlines will get A3 and A6, but where are you going to stick 5 CRJ's? You could maybe fit 2 at A-1, but thats it, unless you put up a blastwall to keep from incinerating the bagrooms. They will be that close.

Well, one more can be put at that pseudo-gate A8, another at that never-built taxiway northwest of the A6, where DL used to park DC-8s aeons ago, and the other two could either be pulled to free B gates, or to the Super Bowl Apron.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:58 am

Thanks Otto. It's been about 6 years since I've flown through JAX, and I honestly love the airport. I really liked the layout and well it was served. It's nice to see they are expanding down there. I know B6 had announced service and DL has been pretty steady there along with the other airlines. Glad to see things are going well down there.

Ryan
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 7):
DL has been pretty steady there along with the other airlines

Before CH11, yes, under CH11, not really. FLL is gone, JFK is gone, CVG is down to RJs and sees reduced flights, and ATL has lost most widebody flights. And they still haven't started SLC service  Sad . That aside, the airport area itself has been improved quite a bit, with the new parking structure (which appears to not have enough capacity either), larger baggage claim hall (thank God for that), a centralized security checkpoint (another "thank God"), direct access to I-295, and many additionals hotels and motels.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 6):
Well, one more can be put at that pseudo-gate A8, another at that never-built taxiway northwest of the A6, where DL used to park DC-8s aeons ago, and the other two could either be pulled to free B gates, or to the Super Bowl Apron.

Herein lies the problem. Yes, you could park 1 at A8(which is also called A6B, rather confusing, isn't it?). But to put one on the pad NW or A6, you will need someone to "ride the brakes" as the plane is pushed back and towed in. A lot of work for such a move. Same with parking them at B concourse, where there really are no gates overnight. And the Super Bowl apron is even further away. They could work theoretically, but it would mean many rampers would have to be sent off to be qualified to ride the CRJ's back in.



OttoPylit
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maury
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:24 am

Wow... Caution:  old  alert...

I can remember looking at the cool model of the New Jacksonville International Airport, all shiny and futuristic...and it WAS, compared to Imeson! That place was classic.

I flew through JAX in February...seemed like a nice airport, but still feels "way out there in the pines." But the gate, rental car desk and airport motel served their purpose!
 
SPREE34
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:34 am

I flew through 1st week of July. Everthing looked nice and clean. I walked through B and recalled my first Jet ride. National DC-8-61 "Christine". I think that was March of 71.
They (JAX) have lots of room for growth. The good planning in the 60s is paying off.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 11):
They (JAX) have lots of room for growth. The good planning in the 60s is paying off.

Theorethically yes, but some morons in City Development have plans to build a new 15,000-home communitie within close proximity to the airport. That in turn would use up room for the land-saved-for-parallel runway to 13/31, and of course some homes will also be under the approach for that runway. AFAIK nothing is firm yet, but the city is serious about it :roll: .
 
OttoPylit
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12):
Theorethically yes, but some morons in City Development have plans to build a new 15,000-home community within close proximity to the airport. That in turn would use up room for the land-saved-for-parallel runway to 13/31, and of course some homes will also be under the approach for that runway. AFAIK nothing is firm yet, but the city is serious about it

They are also building housing just north of the airport as well. I know because my parent's sold some land we had there to the developer. It also meant that my dad had to inform the FAA he was closing his private airstrip that runs perpendicular to I-95. I guess the airport authority finally got their wish in seeing it closed down, as they harrassed him relentlessly in the 70's to have it closed because, they said, it was too close to JIA. My father's argument was, "I was here first!" And by the margin of about 10 years ahead of JIA. Also, my dad's(at the time) Taylorcraft E-2(only one flying at the time) never got above 500 feet before he was out of JIA's airspace, whereas airlines were well above that as they entered or exited the airspace. Dad eventually won the argument with the Zoning Board to keep it open. I guess from now on, I'll have to relive my airstrip memories via Microsoft Flight Simulator.    



OttoPylit

[Edited 2006-07-25 21:04:15]
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 13):
They are also building housing just north of the airport as well. I know because my parent's sold some land we had there to the developer. It also meant that my dad had to inform the FAA he was closing his private airstrip that runs perpendicular to I-95

Would that be Baine?
Well, at least you'll probably soon be able to find it on here  Silly :
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/
 
OttoPylit
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 14):
Would that be Baine?

Thats correct, but I'm surprised it never showed on any sectional chart I've seen. My father even took the time to keep it mowed and would sometimes mow the name into high grass. When I was a gate agent, my station manager flew out one day and came back that evening. As he departed the plane, he leaned over and said, "Does your family own some land north of here?" I replied yes. He said, "Then tell your dad the N should be a little bigger."


I remember flying in there many times as a child. We had cows on our land for the greenbelt, and we sometimes had to buzz the cows off the airstrip/pasture. And then wash manure off the aircraft wheel-pants. LOL

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 14):
Well, at least you'll probably soon be able to find it on here :
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/

I actually have that website saved in my favorites. I like looking at the former Imeson Airport in JAX which still has some structures standing and runways still paved as if a Connie was gonna land any second.




OttoPylit
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CRGsFuture
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RE: JAX Renovation Has Begun

Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting DAL767400ER:
FLL is gone, JFK is gone, CVG is down to RJs

FLL is gone for good as WN has a monopoly on it. Remember this year WN for the first time posted higher PAX numbers at JAX than DL. JFK is gone for good as it is strictly an O&D market. By using LGA instead it allows passengers to go at higher prices. Remember the idea behind JFK was to allow passengers to go international but as posted in another thread that was taken advantage on by NYers heading south.

CVG is and should be an RJ only airport for DL as not much goes in and out, and unless your doing a coast to coast line or O&D which DL gets for the JAX-CVG route; CVG is perfectly fine.

Remember JAX has a lucrative market to other Floridian cities via ATL as most businesses in Jacksonville are southern owned and operated companies.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.

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