BOE773
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One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:50 am

Why are most airports in the kingdom (isles of brit) just one runway?
It can't be just because of the NIMBYS.
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Why are most airports in the kingdom (isles of brit) just one runway?

Well, LHR isn't, LGW isn't, BHX isn't, MAN isn't, GLA isn't, EDI isn't, BFS isn't, DUB isn't. That's the majors taken care of. What airports are you specifically referring to...???
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FlyKev
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:40 am

LGW operates as a single runway airport, as does STN. Thats two London ones.

I think its space related, though there are plans to massivly expand STN.

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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 1):
LGW isn't,

LGW was for many years the world's busiest single runway airport and unless I've missed something pretty significant, it still is. Pray tell us where the second runway is...
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:51 am

Bermuda International (Kindley Field) BDA/TXKF has been down to one runway for decades. I just love carrying enough fuel to divert to Boston, plus.
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charlipr
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:56 am

LGW has two runway parallel to each other:

RWY 08R/26L & 08L/26R
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 5):
LGW has two runway parallel to each other: RWY 08R/26L & 08L/26R

Wow, news to me. But how 'equivalent' are these and can they be used simultaneously? (I still remember a BIA MD80 landing on a taxiway at LGW in the 1980s...)

[Edited 2006-07-25 00:10:18]
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 5):
LGW has two runway parallel to each other:

RWY 08R/26L & 08L/26R

Got there just before me, damn!

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
But how 'equivalent' are these and can they be used simultaneously?

They are not "equivilent" as such, one is the emergency runway, and is significantly shorter, however if the sitiation dictates, then either can be used.

Edit to add link for the benefit of those who were not aware...!

http://www.ukaccs.info/gatwick/profile.htm

[Edited 2006-07-25 00:17:25]
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RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
Wow, news to me. But how 'equivalent' are these and can they be used simultaneously? (I still remembeer a BIA MD80 landing on a taxiway at LGW in the 1980s...)

08L cannot be used at the same time as 08R, they are far too close together and the eastern end is blocked by the terminals a hundred yards or so from the runways threshold.
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
08L cannot be used at the same time as 08R, they are far too close together

Right, so LGW remains to all intents and purposes a "single runway" airport.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting PM (Reply 9):

Right, so LGW remains to all intents and purposes a "single runway" airport.

Ahh but the thread title wasnt 'Airports restricted to operations on one runway'  Wink
 
YULYMX
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:15 am

many carabean airport got only one runway: HAV, CYO, ccc, HOG,AVI, SDQ, POP, PUJ, LRM, STT, BDA, SXM,
 
RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 12):
many carabean airport got only one runway

They havent exactly got much space tho, have they?
 
YULYMX
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):

They do specialy in cuba and Dominican republic but with dominant wind they only need one...

SJU got more than one
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 11):
Ahh but the thread title wasnt 'Airports restricted to operations on one runway'

Why isn't there an emoticon for "hair-splitting"? Nice try, Richard, but I suspect you're with me on this one!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting PM (Reply 15):

Why isn't there an emoticon for "hair-splitting"? Nice try, Richard, but I suspect you're with me on this one!

Quite right you are, on both counts.
 
mainMAN
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:26 am

In terms of regularly operational runways, only LHR, MAN and DUB have more than one, and the reason is this........(thinking)

Because...........there's still not a compelling need for any more runways, with the exceptions of LHR and possibly LGW. BHX needs a longer runway, but the planning process in the UK means that big infrastructural projects take a long, long time to materialise.

With 60 million people crammed into area the size of the Montreal-Toronto corridor, there isn't enough room in the UK to build new runways or even roads without a big ensuing fight. Every time something does get built, it also means the demolition or relocation of 500 year old architecturally listed buildings, or destruption to ancient woodland habitats etc, so it generally doesn't happen.

It's a bit different in North America....there's plenty of r-o-o-m!
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 16):
Quite right you are, on both counts.

 bigthumbsup  LoL!
 
YULYMX
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:31 am

IN North america i think that only San Diego (SAN) use a single runway out of major metrpolitain city of course
 
RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:45 am

In short, the reason most airports have one operational runway is because they are all derived from WW2 airbases - the land was set aside, and by todays standards its too small for multiple runways.
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
In short, the reason most airports have one operational runway is because they are all derived from WW2 airbases - the land was set aside, and by todays standards its too small for multiple runways.

Gatwick?!
 
mainMAN
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
In short, the reason most airports have one operational runway is because they are all derived from WW2 airbases

Precisely.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting PM (Reply 20):
Gatwick?!

Gatwick (as did Heathrow) started off as an aerodrome prior to WW2, but it was massively expanded as RAF Gatwick under No. 11 Group Fighter Command. In 1958 it was revamped and opened as London Gatwick, an alterantive to London Heathrow.
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 22):
In 1958 it was revamped and opened as London Gatwick, an alterantive to London Heathrow.



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
by todays standards its too small for multiplerunways.

Rubbish! They built the North Terminal where there was plenty of room for a second runway. Gatwick is not located in a high density population centre!
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:10 am

My favorite one is of course, GVA. What a place with one runway.
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 24):
My favorite one is of course, GVA. What a place with one runway.

What's the problem? When was GVA ever overwhelmed by traffic with only one runway? It's not that big of an airport....
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:20 am

I'm saying its a cool place for a one runway airport, as it does make sense. Their is no negativity, or hidden sarcasm in the post.

[Edited 2006-07-25 01:23:46]
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RichardPrice
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting PM (Reply 23):
Rubbish! They built the North Terminal where there was plenty of room for a second runway. Gatwick is not located in a high density population centre!

No, but theres still population surrounding it, enough to raise serious opposition to having their homes replaced by a second runway. If a second runway had gone in where the North Terminal went, you would have had to move the town of Charlwood. To the south is the suburbs of Crawley.

The only locations is to the west, which would provide interesting taxi durations, or dramatically to the north, sandwiching Charlwood between the runways. Bet they wont be happy about that.
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 27):
Bet they wont be happy about that.

Show me an airport of any significance where the locals won't be happy about any expansion...  Sad
 
isitsafenow
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:25 am

RSW stands out. 6-24 is 12,000 feet long for in-season international trips to Germany.
The Germans love southwest Florida.
The airport has one and only one runway.
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iRISH251
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:27 am

A northern parallel runway is planned for Dublin, to be completed in six or seven years' time. Currently DUB operates virtually as a single-runway airport, although there are subsidiary runways which are used when winds and other circumstances dictate. Traffic levels are now such that there is little excess capacity with the existing runway arrangement.

By the way, Ireland is of course not part of "the kingdom (isles of brit)" so quaintly referred to by BOE773 in his initial posting!
 
mainMAN
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 22):
Gatwick (as did Heathrow) started off as an aerodrome prior to WW2, but it was massively expanded as RAF Gatwick under No. 11 Group Fighter Command.

Ringway/Wythenshawe has a similar history. It started in 1929 as a Manchester minicipal alternative to neighbouring Barton Aerodrome in Salford, and saw the start of KLM services to Amsterdam in 1938. During WW2, it became the production centre for Fairey and Avro, and also a training base for 60,000 parachutists.
 
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Irish251 (Reply 30):
By the way, Ireland is of course not part of "the kingdom (isles of brit)" so quaintly referred to by BOE773 in his initial posting!

A deeply problematic concept. The "Britsh Isles" is a geographical concept that has absolutely nothing to do with politics. We could refer to the islands off the NW coast of Europe whether or not they were populated. And the largest (= "greatest") island of this small archipelago is "Great Britain". Hence the country of which I was born a citizen (OK, "subject", but that's another argument) is "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Thus, the island of Ireland is part of of the geographical archipelago of the "British Isles" without the autonomous country of the Republic of Ireland (currently 80% of "Ireland") being part of "Britain" (which is itself a concept of highly dubious provenance)...
 
ZKOJH
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:00 am

JER- only has one runway, which is rather great if you miss it, yoiu have a choice of either hitting a garden centre or going over a cliff, and landing on the golf course below !
Vietnam time..
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:11 am

EDI may have 2 runways, RWY 06/24 (Main Runway) and RWY 12/30 (Secondary Runway), but RWY 06/24 is the only runway used everyday of the year. RWY 12/30 is used, i beleive i saw an EZY A319 depart from it the other day, but the runway is hardly ever used. That was the only flight i saw depart on RWY 12/30 for a good few months.

Thanks
Mike
 
BOE773
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting PM (Reply 32):
"the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Why are the islands not commonly called the 'United Queendom'
since it is currently being ruled by a queen?
 
nwafflyer
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:20 am

Now, compare the volume of traffic at the various airports in this thread to say Atlanta --

Also compare the local weather to Atlanta, and compare the new projected Atlanta runway to the 2nd and 3rd that have just been mentioned at other airports

Yes, the US has way more room, but there are also so many more flights
 
AeroWesty
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 35):
Why are the islands not commonly called the 'United Queendom'

Blatant thread creep. Shocking, I say.  Wink
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Qantas744er
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 35):
Why are the islands not commonly called the 'United Queendom'
since it is currently being ruled by a queen?

Emmmm. Why is the World round?

What kind of questions are you asking..

Go to the " Stupid Questions Forum" it can be found under www.bullshit.com

Cheers Leo
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AirbusA6
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:27 am

Maybe us Brits use our runways more efficiently than other countries  Wink

LGW for example carries a lot more traffic than most European airports, many with 2 or 3 runways...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
gilesdavies
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:32 am

BHX effectively only has one runway now: 15/33 - 8,546ft/2,605m.

Runway 06/24 only measures 4314ft/1315m, and part of this has now been built on and used as stands during peak periods.

There are plans to extend or replace the existing runway to 3000m, to open up further long haul flights. Problems with extending the existing runway would mean diverting the A45 (one of the major trunks into the city) as this runs by at the end of runway 24. Also there is a church in the way of the flight path for flights arriving on to runway 06 if the runway is extended.

BHX does however do pretty maximising the usage of the existing runway with airlines line EK - 777-300, PK - 747-300, CO DC-10's all using the airport regularly either in the past or present.

The UK government has made it clear a shorter second runway of about 6500ftcould be granted permission, if usage of the existing runway reaches capacity. But this would not be considered before 2016.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:48 am

Ive heard Gilbratar has one runway, SAN only has one. Patrick AFB may have 2 but only one can handle the large amount of military traffic we get. ITH only has one.

MCOflyer
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BOE773
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:54 am

I liked the looks of Madeira when we sailed past on a cruise ship.
A fair amount of the rwy is supported on concrete reinforced piers.
Not much level land on that volcanic isle.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
LGW was for many years the world's busiest single runway airport and unless I've missed something pretty significant, it still is. Pray tell us where the second runway is...

Its a maintenance runway so they can shut down the primary runway. They also plan a second runway but are prohibited from building it until 2019.

The BAA Gatwick site has all the info. Here's a picture of the dual runways (maintenance runway on the right):

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0423237/L/
 
PITrules
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
08L cannot be used at the same time as 08R, they are far too close together and the eastern end is blocked by the terminals a hundred yards or so from the runways threshold.

However, 26R and 26L can be used at the same time. 26L for landing and 26R for takeoff. For whatever reason , they choose not too. Any way you slice it, LGW is a two runway airport. And the spacing between the runways is no less than that at SFO and LAX.

The thing I don't understand about British airports are the politics. For example, the "no new runway at LGW until 2018" policy. If a runway can be developed after 2018, why not now? Why make such an agreement?

At Luton, when the new runway is completed, they say the existing runway will be for emergency use only. WHY? If you have two runways, USE THEM!

Same at LHR with the lack of mixed mode operations. I believe LHR is the only airport in the land with independent parallel runways capable of simultaneous approaches, and they are prohibited from doing so.

And even at Farnborough, the gov't put an artificial limit on operations (20,000) per year. WHY?

This must all be so frustrating
FLYi
 
BOE773
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 44):
I believe LHR is the only airport in the land with independent parallel runways capable of simultaneous approaches

They have insufficient lateral separation for simultaneous ILS approaches and departs for some ac types.
 
Coronado990
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:21 am

SAN is the busiest U.S. single runway commercial airport...twice as busy as the runner up which
is RSW.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
mainMAN
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 35):
Why are the islands not commonly called the 'United Queendom'
since it is currently being ruled by a queen?

So as not to confuse our poor colonial subjects in the Dominion of Canada  biggrin 


Quoting PITrules (Reply 44):
The thing I don't understand about British airports are the politics. For example, the "no new runway at LGW until 2018" policy. If a runway can be developed after 2018, why not now? Why make such an agreement?

Good point, but no government wants the responsibility of making such decisions. The no new runway at LGW until 2018 is far from being an agreement to build one after 2018, it'll probably not happen anyway.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 45):
They have insufficient lateral separation for simultaneous ILS approaches and departs for some ac types.

Absolute utter BS.

We TEAM every morning and whenever necessary where we land simultaneously and independently on BOTH runways. There are no airspace or infrastrutural issues. The only thing preventing us from doing this all day long is the Cranford Agreement which is in the process of being abolished.

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gilesdavies
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RE: One Runway Airports.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 44):
At Luton, when the new runway is completed, they say the existing runway will be for emergency use only. WHY? If you have two runways, USE THEM!

Luton can bearly justify submitting plans for a two runway operation when airports like STN and LGW are 2-3x more busier than Luton and operate with a single runway.

I also think the the two runways will be too close together to use both runways simultaniously, and will operate similarly to what happens at LGW.

The new runway that they are proposing to be built at Luton will be over 3000m long, where as the existing runway in only about 2086m and severely restricts the destinations and aircrafts that operate from the airport. It is not a simple case of extending the existing runway as the runway has a cliff edge with a 200ft drop at both ends.

In order for Luton to get planning permission and please the authorities for the new runway, they need to make it clear they would not be running a two runway airport. (Its called red tape and protecting the NIMBY's!)

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