photopilot
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:12 am

Last Avro Arrow test pilot dies

Jul. 26, 2006. 01:50 PM
CANADIAN PRESS

The last of the Avro Arrow test pilots has died.

A memorial service will be held Thursday in Toronto for Don Rogers, who was a chief test pilot for the revolutionary aircraft.

Rogers died of cancer at his home in Toronto on July 19.

The Arrow was an ambitious aircraft that was considered decades ahead of its time by some, but the program was scrapped in 1959.

Rogers, born in Hamilton, began his lifelong passion for aviation at the Hamilton Aero Club, where he got his pilot licence at age 20.

After the Arrow was scrapped Rogers worked for de Haviland and later travelled with his wife June, sharing his Avro experiences with historians and enthusiasts.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:23 am

Hi!

My tribute to this great pilot, to this great plane and sadly not a lot of people talk about the way all this and other canadian projects were scrapped! Sometimes I imagine where Canada would be in aviation if this didn't happen!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
avroarrow
Posts: 804
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 10:40 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:36 am

My thoughts exactly CV990. However, time marches on and unfortunately you can't change the past. I always tell people what I know about the Arrow if they ask me, which happens more than you might think in casual conversation. So there is some reason to hope that the legacy of Avro's innovation might live on for a long time yet.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
A5XX
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:36 pm

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Photopilot (Thread starter):
The Arrow was an ambitious aircraft that was considered decades ahead of its time by some, but the program was scrapped in 1959.

The day the Arrow was canceled, was certainly a shameful day for all Canadians. Because of this, history will retain that Diefenbaker be regarded as the worst prime minister Canada ever had...  

[Edited 2006-07-26 23:14:19]
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:09 am

Hi AvroArrow!

First time I read all about the Avro Arrow ( and also about Avro Jetliner ) was in an old issue of Air Enthusiast. Then I saw a TV series with Dan Akroyd. Once a while I still like to check all the details about this affair and it makes me sick, sick of course with the politicians and how politicians can actually kill the dreams of a company, the dreams of their employees and in the end the dreams of a nation. The way this issue was carried on it's just unbelievable, so it's good that people like you and other sensitive aviation guys can bring back those memories! I know that some people will feel unconfortable with it, but we CANNOT forget these affairs, they are part of aviation history and they need to be preserved!
Thanks for doing that AvroArrow, and from side I always come back a bit with that when ever is possible!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
A5XX
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:36 pm

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
First time I read all about the Avro Arrow ( and also about Avro Jetliner ) was in an old issue of Air Enthusiast. Then I saw a TV series with Dan Akroyd.

Does anyone know if the TV series (with Dan Akroyd) is available on DVD?

Yves.
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:26 am

For those who want a very good recasting of the whole Arrow saga, I recommend "Arrow Scrapbook" by Petert Zuuring (1999, Arrow Alliance Press,ISBN 1-55056-690-3).

IIn fact, it appears as though the recommendation to kill the Arrow came form the Chief of Defense Staff at the time, Gen. George Pearkes. The Arrow's costs were wildly out of control, it was well behind schedule -- although, with all the innovaitons at the time this is not too surprising -- and the Armed Forces had an appetite for new ,long haul transports, the army new tanks, and the navy new frigates. The Arrow was eating up a bigger and bigger piece of the defense pie, and there was no certainty it would 'do the job', so, they recommended to the Cabinet Defense Committee to scrap the program (op cit ppg 101-106).

And it was. Sadly, the prototypes were broken up, ostensibly for security reasons.

The book contradicts the view that American pressure killed the plane, in fact indicates the USAF were prepared to fund 3 squadrons for Canada, among other things.

I recommend this book to all Arrowheads. It is a level-headed account of the trials and tribulations of what was, despite its' many problems, a beautiful aircraft.

I now sit back and await the inevitable responses.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
rikkus67
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:26 am

I sincerely express my deep regrets to a man who was among those at the forefront of commercial aviation in Canada. May he rest in peace.

Regarding the Arrow.....


...an absolutely stunning achievement in Canadian aviaton history, the Arrow was also one of Canadian aviations biggest heartbreaks, next to another amazing aircraft, the AVRO Jetliner (the second commercial aircraft to fly after the Comet, and before the 707. Howard Hughes and TWA were among early US interests, as well as the Canadian and US govt.).



Due mostly to political pressure (to this day, there is speculation of US govt. involvement), and (supposedly) in the Jetliners case, the unavailability of a stronger engine to make it a twin... both aircraft lines were not only cancelled but almost completely destroyed. There is little left to the AVRO legacy in Canada, it is indeed sad to loose one of the last remnants of these programs.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:27 am

I agree about the technological setback involved with the cancellation of the Arrow even though I suspect the project would have become a white elephant for Canada.
The bigger blow imho was the cancellation of the Jetliner - note the round windows! When the Comet 1 was grounded the Jetliner would have owned the market, years before Boeing or Douglas rolled out their designs.

Oh well, Shoulda Coulda Woulda I suppose!

Big version: Width: 530 Height: 329 File size: 65kb
 
A5XX
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:36 pm

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting A5XX (Reply 5):
Does anyone know if the TV series (with Dan Akroyd) is available on DVD?

Found it !  Smile

http://www.avroarrow.org/Store/ArrowDVD.html


Yves.
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
rikkus67
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:41 am

Quote:
I recommend this book to all Arrowheads. It is a level-headed account of the trials and tribulations of what was, despite its' many problems, a beautiful aircraft.

I now sit back and await the inevitable responses.

I had not heard of this intersting take on the story, Connie...I will certainly look for the book! Regardless of what ended up killing both programs, it is ashame that the AVRO story has lost one of its Arrow pioneers!
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
A5XX
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:36 pm

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Photopilot (Thread starter):

This was certainly the most interesting post on A.net today.  Smile

Thanks Photopilot.

Yves.
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
stormbringer
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:49 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:57 am

Be nice if they could bring out one of the supposedly secret Arrows that were stored to fly the missing man at his funeral.  airplane   airplane   airplane 
It's not road rage. It's COURTESY ENFORCEMENT.
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:00 am

I have always been fascinated with the story of this remarkable aircraft, a plane some 20 + years ahead of its time and ALL CANADIAN. Indeed the US defense contractors such as Boeing, Northrup, Lockheed were not unhappy to see this project scrapped but I don't think that the cancellation of the Arrow project can be put squarely on D.C.'s doorstep as has been suggested in the past. From what I understand there are reports from the RCMP that the project had been infiltrated by the Soviets which would supposedly remain classified up until the 90s.

One can only imagine where Canadian aviation might be today had the Arrow project been allowed to continue. Indeed a sad but intriguing footnote in aviation history .

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 6):
The Arrow's costs were wildly out of control,

That was largely because the air force demanded a state of the art, but untested, weapons system -- against the recommendation of Avro and the mid-level RCAF types. Avro recommended using an off the shelf weapon system and upgrading to the newer stuff once the bugs had been worked out. Kinda like a bridge too far.

I watched this airplane fly many times as a kid, and met (through my father) Jan Zurakowski and Mike Cooper-Slipper. Jurakowski was at the controls for the first flight. Cooper-Slipper flew the B-47 test bed they used for the Iroquois engine. Iroquois was so powerful it could keep the B-47 aloft solo.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Last Avro Arrow Test Pilot Dies

Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:41 pm

Hi!

Even agreeing with the fact that the Avro Arrow was a risky ( but at the same time it could have been a great achievement in military aviation..) the Avro Jetliner could have sliced at least 5 to 10 years in jet civil aviation, so I don't understand why canadian government cancelled this project too! I still a slight feeling that at one time Canada was "too close" to USA!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!

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