SpinalTap
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:18 pm

Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:01 pm

Virgin(/Pacific?) Blue is looking at domestic operations in NZ again.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3744724a13,00.html

Fares could still be less on the NZ domestic market. AKL-CHC and SYD-MEL are both 1h20min. Cheapest I could find: AKL-CHC return $242 and that is a special, SYD-AVV $190 NZD on JQ and that seemed to be the standard fare.
"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:09 pm

I certainly hope they do expand more here within NZ. Any ideas on where they would fly? Any regional places like Invercargill, Dunedin, Palmerston North or Hamilton? I wonder when they would come here, if they do. In Auckland, would they operate from the NZ domestic terminal? Is there any room for them there?

I take it that routes would be 73G operated and not 738's?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5000
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:06 pm

I don't think there is room for 3 domestic airlines in NZ running to the main centres. While it would be nice and maybe bring fares down abit I don't no how they would go againest NZ's frequency on the AKL-WLG/CHC runs, QF struggle againest NZ aswell.
 
1des1
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting SpinalTap (Thread starter):
Fares could still be less on the NZ domestic market. AKL-CHC and SYD-MEL are both 1h20min. Cheapest I could find: AKL-CHC return $242 and that is a special, SYD-AVV $190 NZD on JQ and that seemed to be the standard fare.

DJ coming on board in domestic market would be awesome for the consumer... in the short term.. in the long term would not be so great. NZ would most likely start a price war in an attempt to drive DJ out of the market place - although it would be nice to fly CHC - AKL for $100 return - the realities of the price of oil would mean both NZ and DJ would loose money, something which in the long run will lead to much higher fares.

NZ domestic op's is NZ's bread and butter - there is no way they would go down without a fight, it is the backbone of the carrier, a start up airline like DJ which is alot smaller and has less capital behind it just would not last against the dirty tactics NZ would introduce - they would drive DJ out of the market.

Jet Connect / QF is loosing money on domestic routes, the fall of Ansett New Zealand really highlighted the harsh realities that the New Zealand domestic market is not big enough to sustain two major carriers- let alone 3 ! (Although the frequency of Jet Connect aka QF is really only half a carrier) (QO is not really a major carrier - I still don't understand why QF stopped code sharing with them, combined they offer a bigger threat to NZ then operating separately QF could do with the regional connections and QO needs the national connections)

NZ has been prepared for DJ to enter domestic New Zealand market for many years and runs a very low cost, no fat round the edges operation. It would be placed perfectly to fend off any competition.

NZ has the benefit that QF does in it's domestic market - the corporate clients who would simply not part with the frequencies, Koru Club access, Priority Baggage, Valet Parking etc etc that flying on NZ allows.

But hey I'm all for competition so good on DJ if they give it a go.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:18 pm

It is interesting when DJ enters New Zealand domestic market with their Velocity program while NZ smart saver fares don't allow points accrual.
 
1des1
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 1):
I certainly hope they do expand more here within NZ. Any ideas on where they would fly? Any regional places like Invercargill, Dunedin, Palmerston North or Hamilton? I wonder when they would come here, if they do. In Auckland, would they operate from the NZ domestic terminal? Is there any room for them there?

I would say if DJ started operating domestic routes it would be the mainline
AKL - CHC
AKL - WLG
AKL - ZQN
WLG - AKL
WLG - CHC
CHC - AKL
CHC - WLG

I would be very surprised if they operated any regional routes, would probably code share with QO on regional routes (Providing each other with vital links)

NZ would never allow them access to the NZ domestic terminal - especially being in the process of spending about $12 Million on it. Probably DJ would have to squeeze in with QF. Until the new domestic terminal is operational but that is years away.
 
nzrich
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting SpinalTap (Thread starter):
Fares could still be less on the NZ domestic market. AKL-CHC and SYD-MEL are both 1h20min. Cheapest I could find: AKL-CHC return $242 and that is a special, SYD-AVV $190 NZD on JQ and that seemed to be the standard fare.

Just booked one of NZ's promotional web fares "grabaseat" $49 akl-chc one way so im flying for $98 return ..

well i just checked the virgin blue website and their airfares start at $109aud for mel-syd if you make that into nzd its $131 nzd ..For the same flight time as chc-akl is on air NZ that routes fare was $121 nzd both for travel on sat 29 jul..

As for the $242 or $121 one way its a standard lead in fare for Air NZ just like the one i quoted on virgin was at $109aud(131 nzd) or mid week $85aud(103 nzd)..So the fares are not that different .. With 2 airlines providing service in NZ already i doubt there is much room for another player unless its just the odd flight here and there ..The other problem is terminal space AKL has a major space problem in its domestic terminals ,WLG has probably got space and CHC is probably got minimal space available as well..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:37 am

Interesting...

I think you'd see QF/JetConnect be the big loser in this. They have restricted schedules and no feed with Origin, which is such a shame for both carriers. Though Qf's frequent flyer awards and the IFE on longer trips (eg. AKL-ZQN) are appreciated and a point of difference.

I still believe that if you could get an operation started flying E190s configured with 100 seats (thus needing only two F/As) and with an arrangement in place with Origin, you could effectively force QF out of the market and then come to some kind of codeshare arrangement with them on domestic routes. This would give both international and regional feed to domestic mainline ops.

And the E190 could likely be used on routes like WLG-HLZ, CHC-IVC and even AKL-Napier/Nelson routes. And it would be perfect for all flights into Dunedin, giving a much more comfortable ride than NZ's ATRs.

Man, if only I had $50 million!! And no fear  Smile
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:03 am

Unless they offer new city pairs, could they drive fares lower to that offered by NZ and QF?
Product wise, they have nothing to offer, so one has to doubt how things would go.
Either way I am sure they will not go into things on a whim!

 wave 
 
axio
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:19 am

I'm not entirely sure about the benefit of Origin Pacific to the operations of Qantas in NZ, or any other carrier. Aside from their flights from NSN to WLG, CHC, no other route has a frequency of more than 14 flights per week. Furthermore they are operating 19 and 29 seat aircraft, and AirNZ have proven fairly prompt about dealing with new oppourunities that Origin creates (like HLZ-CHC).

I have sometimes wondered about larger aircraft operating from places like PMR and DUD, where there are sometimes two ATR-72 services to the same place within an hour or two of each other. The downside of larger aircraft today being that it requires passenger screening, and someone has to pay for that.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting Axio (Reply 9):
I'm not entirely sure about the benefit of Origin Pacific to the operations of Qantas in NZ, or any other carrier. Aside from their flights from NSN to WLG, CHC, no other route has a frequency of more than 14 flights per week. Furthermore they are operating 19 and 29 seat aircraft, and AirNZ have proven fairly prompt about dealing with new oppourunities that Origin creates (like HLZ-CHC).

Nz is creaming quite a premium off of its Link operation on most routes, as this article on a recent study attests to...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...000C7A2-C3BC-14C1-B7E083027AF1010F

I think you'd find if Origin had a codeshare partner on main trunk routes that you'd see a quick expansion of frequencies. Of course, this is what got them into trouble when QF ditched them suddenly last time, so Origin may be slightly more cautious the second time around.

origin is also moving to concentrate on its J41 fleet and I believe will have disposed of it's 19 seaters within the next year or so. DUD, IVC, HLZ, NPR and NLS are certainly mature enough to handle the competition. It just needs the right equipment and the right strategy (combined with a trunk carrier) and I think you have a very real shot at it.
 
kiwiflyer791
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:49 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:10 pm

Would be very suprised if DJ fly domestic in NZ.

Air NZ would protect there domestic service very ferously. Not many airlines have been very successful in the NZ domestic market, it is just too small.

More to the point is how well Pacific Blue is doing. They dropped Wellington for Auckland, and the fleet has not expanded for a while now, so just how successful on this side of the Tasman have they been?
 
Pulkovokiwi
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:17 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Kiwiflyer791 (Reply 11):

They have just started intensive TV advertising in the AKL market and offering damn good all inclusive deals to Queensland.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
purplebox
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting Axio (Reply 9):
The downside of larger aircraft today being that it requires passenger screening, and someone has to pay for that.

When I've been in New Zealand I've always been surprised that certain 'Link' domestic flights don't require full security. Here in the UK all flights have the same security requirements.

Exactly what are the rules in new Zealand?

PurpleBox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
Pulkovokiwi
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:17 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:38 pm

Aviation Security Service only screens mainline Air NZ and Qantas jet services. Seems inconsistent to me.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
User avatar
NZ1
Crew
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:32 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
Aviation Security Service only screens mainline Air NZ and Qantas jet services. Seems inconsistent to me.

Thats because the law only requires screening of aircraft carrying 90 or more pax. If DJ started domestic ops with their 737NG's then they too would have to have their pax screened. DJ738 is probably the one to ask for sure, but I highly doubt DJ will offer a decent domestic service in NZ, unless QF/JetConnect were to pull out, which isn't going to happen anytime soon.

NZ1
--
NZ1
Head Forum Moderator
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:37 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
Aviation Security Service only screens mainline Air NZ and Qantas jet services. Seems inconsistent to me.

When we flew CHC-DUD you didnt even need to go through any security, bit of a worry though.

DUD would be a great place for DJ to operate from with the newly finished terminal with a HUGE checkin area and only NZ and SJ using it! such a waste of space that could be used.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
purplebox
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)

Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 16):
DUD would be a great place for DJ to operate from with the newly finished terminal with a HUGE checkin area and only NZ and SJ using it! such a waste of space that could be used.

Agreed - when I was flying DUD-AKL back in January DUD had a very nice new terminal without any planes - just an ATR72 to CHC and the B737 to AKL over a three hour period.

PurpleBox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos