LUVRSW
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US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:42 pm

Just reported on MSNBC. US AIR flight PIT-PBI nose gear collapsed at gate with pax on board.
 
tooluther
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:07 am

figures, one of the few mainline flights left (737-400??)...and it can't even stay on its feet

[Edited 2006-07-27 17:09:54]
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:22 am

It should have been a 300.
 
pitflyer
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:06 am

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_208105439.html

Article has a picture of the kneeling plane!

 
kubus
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:10 am

http://www.wpxi.com/news/9584165/detail.html

Looks from the pictures that it already pushed back from the gate when it collapsed
 
toltommy
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:22 am

Funny, SABRE shows it as a "return to gate"! Delayed due to MX, estimated to depart 1050A...
 
DAYflyer
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:22 am

What would a likely cause possibly be for this type of incident?
One Nation Under God
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Kubus (Reply 4):
Looks from the pictures that it already pushed back from the gate when it collapsed



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 6):
What would a likely cause possibly be for this type of incident?

It looks like it pushed off of B29 it also appears that the towbar is still attatched to to aircraft and the tug. So when the push was coming to an end and the tug driver went to stop the force collapsed the nose gear. Or since the tug is never disconected from the tug when unhooking the tug backed up and pulled the gear down with it. The force of the rear wheels with the parking brear set woud have done it.
 
cvg2lga
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:38 am

Why can't anything like this ever happen to me?! I flew CVG-ORD-LGA and return on 7/22 and 7/25, the most i was always hoping for was a go-around. Oh well, maybe next time, glad all pax&crew are allright save for minor injuries. Sad for the 737.
Tchau
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rikkus67
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:48 am

Depending on cost of repairs, I am sure you'll see this bird back in the air shortly... Heck, it might end up being in new colours sooner!

Glad no one was seriously injured!
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 7):
Or since the tug is never disconected from the tug when unhooking the tug backed up and pulled the gear down with it. The force of the rear wheels with the parking brear set woud have done it.

Even though it is not practiced but the rules usually state that the towbar is to be disconnected from the tractor before disconnecting from the plane. Even if this was the case I highly doubt the force of disconnecting the towbar would collapse the nose gear. I mean planes land at a 100 plus mph.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
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litz
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:30 am

Just out of curiosity ... what would happen if someone stomped the airplane brakes while the tug was pushing against the nosegear?

Is the gear pin removed prior to pushback, or after the tug disconnects?

What are the mechanics of what can lead to this kind of collapse?

- litz
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 10):
Even though it is not practiced but the rules usually state that the towbar is to be disconnected from the tractor before disconnecting from the plane. Even if this was the case I highly doubt the force of disconnecting the towbar would collapse the nose gear. I mean planes land at a 100 plus mph.

What I was saying is that the tug backed up while the towbar was still on the A/C. The force of the tug pulling against the locked brakes on the A/C would be more than enoungh to pull the gear down. Also when landing the force is pushing against the nosegear, not pulling. On other scenerio is that the A/C tried to turn off the gate with the towbar still on the tug and plane. The twinsting and pulling motion could also collapse the nose gear,

In the end the A/C had to be lifted with airbags and the nose strapped onto a bed of a flat bed truck with tires used as pads.
 
swissy
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 11):
Is the gear pin removed prior to pushback, or after the tug disconnects?

After p/b

It is also possible that p/b was set and tug pulled forward, however tow bars have spacial "shear pins" or p/b were applied before p/b was completed.

Unfortunately we have no close up pic to see how the nose gear sits.

Cheers,
 
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solnabo
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:07 am

The only "thrill" (if you can call it that) was on a B727 IB flight to PMI when they came in to fast on the runway that they had to go-around, we could feel n hear the wheels touch the tarmac and then schwwiiish....up againe!
The woman next to me was pale as a sheet thou.

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vega
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 9):
Depending on cost of repairs, I am sure you'll see this bird back in the air shortly... Heck, it might end up being in new colours sooner!

If the engine pods touched the ground - I can't tell from the pictures, there could be wing and/or pod structural damage - even microscopic.

[Edited 2006-07-27 23:11:00]
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 7):
The force of the rear wheels with the parking brear set woud have done it.

that sounds like the most likely scenario.

Quoting Vega (Reply 15):
If the engine pods touched the ground - I can't tell from the pictures, there could be wing and/or pod structural damage - even microscopic.

i'm sure it will be well inspected, but hopefully the turnaround won't be too long.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:41 am

Happy that all PAX are safe...the worst part of this is that there were only 73 people on board a plane able to carry 134 people. Oh Pittsburgh, what are we going to do with you?

About a 55% load factor...  Yeah sure

Hahaha...we will be seeing this discontinued soon, hahaha!
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jmc1975
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:48 am

What was the reg. #?
.......
 
AnMCOSon
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 7):
It looks like it pushed off of B29 it also appears that the towbar is still attached to to aircraft and the tug.

It was gate B27, a passenger who was interviewed on KDKA mentioned the gate.

I was just discussing this with my father, who's a maintenance control foreman for the Airbuses for USAirways here at PIT, said the damage is alot worse than it looks. He said that the guys from the Boeing desk said the nose gear is really f'ed up.

He wouldn't go any further in detail on how it happened, but he mentioned that the castings in the wheel well that hold the nose gear in place, were torn from the airframe.

If he gets pictures of the damage when he goes back in to work on Sunday, I'll post them on here.
What the? Did everything just jump around? Or did my brain just stroke off there for a second?
 
N670UW
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 18):
What was the reg. #?

N529AU


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Photo © Rob Melehan



[Edited 2006-07-28 02:28:30]
 
US AIRWAYS
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:34 am

I once witnessed a minor incident when one of my friends at work was pushing back an E-170 off of F3 in PHL (when MidAtlantic was still around). The pilot somehow acidentally set the parking break, and it bent the towbar!!! The mechanics came out and did an inspection and said everything was fine with the gear. I never thought a towbar could bend like that, but boy was I wrong!
Go Eagles!
 
steeler83
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:15 am

I am sure those passengers go one hell of a jolt!!! That sucks though. I am glad that nobody was hurt...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 11):
Is the gear pin removed prior to pushback, or after the tug disconnects?

The pin is to be pulled AFTER the tug disconnects! The brakes are released, then the pushback backs up to the gate. The people walking the wings should disconnect the towbar, pull the bypass pin and put it in the hole inside the landing gear (just under where it's connected during pushback). Then the head marshaller salutes off the pilot, and the plane departs. The plane cannot depart without that bypass pin being pulled, as that is what keeps the gear from sliding around during pushback (we always used a chock to keep the plane from rolling forward after the brakes were released).

Quoting N670UW (Reply 20):
N529AU

That was an old USAir bird, IIRC.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
jjbiv
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:38 am

Wasn't the original ship 456 (flt 231 OUT 938A IN 939A)? Looks like the flight left PIT after noon on ship 406. Nice that there was an operational spare in PIT.

joe
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 11):
Just out of curiosity ... what would happen if someone stomped the airplane brakes while the tug was pushing against the nosegear?

Not too sure what would happen if someone hit the brakes while pushback.

However, a couple times when I was about to push a plane out, the PIC forgot to release the parking breaks. Nothing to worry about though, you can feel the resistance, as well as the aircraft wont move.

Glad to hear the passengers are safe.

Cheers,
Dave

[Edited 2006-07-28 03:55:23]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
N670UW
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
That was an old USAir bird, IIRC.

Yep. 737-3B7. Delivered May 1989.
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 24):
Nice that there was an operational spare in PIT.

Yeah, it's a shock that US had a spare in Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 27):
Yeah, it's a shock that US had a spare in Pittsburgh.

Yeah there are usually about 3 down at the hanger that time of the morning. Either coming off a heavy check or just waiting for their gate to open for a later flight. There are half a dozen or so RONs that go down for checks each night.
 
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litz
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting AnMCOSon (Reply 19):
He wouldn't go any further in detail on how it happened, but he mentioned that the castings in the wheel well that hold the nose gear in place, were torn from the airframe.

*ouch* ... that's some serious torque ...

- litz
 
Coronado990
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:24 am

I can't imagine what the pilots thought when they were eye-to-eye with the tug driver.
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CentPIT
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 28):
Yeah there are usually about 3 down at the hanger that time of the morning. Either coming off a heavy check or just waiting for their gate to open for a later flight. There are half a dozen or so RONs that go down for checks each night.

How many RONs does US Airways actually have in Pittsburgh on an average night?
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 31):
How many RONs does US Airways actually have in Pittsburgh on an average night?

Bwt Republic and mainline I would say about a dozen or so.
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 32):
Bwt Republic and mainline I would say about a dozen or so.

Oh, less than I thought!!! I was thinking that the B concourse would have more like 15 or 18 RON aircraft for the morning rush at PIT, which for US is now between 7:45 and 9:00!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
steeler83
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting N670UW (Reply 26):
Yep. 737-3B7. Delivered May 1989.

Wow... Was that bird then painted in all 3 US liveries?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 33):
Oh, less than I thought!!! I was thinking that the B concourse would have more like 15 or 18 RON aircraft for the morning rush at PIT, which for US is now between 7:45 and 9:00!

Remember that right now we have 6 redeyes that arrive bwt 5 and 7 with numerous arrivals from outstations from 630 and 730.
 
UALramperORD
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:04 pm

Good thing the wing walker wasn't crouching down disconnecting the pin when this happened.
"Roger, cleared to push spot 3"
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 35):
Remember that right now we have 6 redeyes that arrive bwt 5 and 7 with numerous arrivals from outstations from 630 and 730.

You are right, I did forget about these Pittsburgh arrivals:

SEA
SAN
LAX
SFO
LAS
PHX
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
USPIT10L
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 34):
Wow... Was that bird then painted in all 3 US liveries?

No, when it was delivered, it was painted in the silver USAir (red and blue) livery, and then it was switched to US Airways. Can't recall the exact time period, though. I always saw it in the US Airways scheme. The only birds left in the old USAir colors after the name change were the DC9s, MD-80s and 737-200 mainline jets. The rest were all painted in US Airways colors. In fact, the only thing left with USAir titles on it are some B1900s for Air Midwest, I believe. Jdwfloyd will have to back me up on that one. I could've sworn I saw some last March in PSA training.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
brdcessna
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:34 pm

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 36):
Good thing the wing walker wasn't crouching down disconnecting the pin when this happened.




Agreed some one woulda had a real BAD day
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:51 pm

Another Sheared Pin.
What caused it.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 12):
On other scenerio is that the A/C tried to turn off the gate with the towbar still on the tug and plane. The twinsting and pulling motion could also collapse the nose gear,

THe towbar is designed to break befor that could happen. I cant speak for US but the towbars a DL will break the shear pin when you hit a bump so You will never be able to collapse a nose gear like that.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
The people walking the wings should disconnect the towbar, pull the bypass pin and put it in the hole inside the landing gear (just under where it's connected during pushback)

On a 737 the pin stays with the ramp. Only the MD 88 the pin goes on the plane.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
USPIT10L
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 41):
THe towbar is designed to break befor that could happen. I cant speak for US but the towbars a DL will break the shear pin when you hit a bump so You will never be able to collapse a nose gear like that.



Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 41):
On a 737 the pin stays with the ramp. Only the MD 88 the pin goes on the plane.

Thanks. It's been a while since I wingwalked or marshalled. We did get 757s, and 737s periodically here and there, but the primary mainline aircraft DL flies into PIT is the MD-88.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
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antoniemey
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 42):
but the primary mainline aircraft DL flies into PIT is the MD-88.

Isn't that the primary mainline A/C DL flies almost everywhere in the states?  Big grin
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:32 pm

Not sure what the pushback procedure is for a 733, but perhaps they didn't install the gear pins prior to pushback.
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
NKP S2
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:39 pm

They don't install gear pins at pushback, it's not the proceedure there.
 
boeingfixer
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 41):
THe towbar is designed to break befor that could happen. I cant speak for US but the towbars a DL will break the shear pin when you hit a bump so You will never be able to collapse a nose gear like that.

Our towbars have the shear pins as well(as all do) and I concur that you would never take a gear out before the shear pins 'shear'.

I have seen towbars with regular NAS bolts installed instead of shear pins because the operator didn't have spare shear pins. Walking on thin ice but even with two 3/8" bolts in place, the most you would break off is the tow lug on the nose gear as it has smaller bolts designed to shear off instead of tearing a nose gear out.

Cheers,

John
Cheers, John YYC
 
luketenley
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:55 am

I work at PIT and was talking to several rampers and pilots. Noone knew for sure what exactly happened but some mentioned the tub operator being at fault and some mentioned the pilot being at fault by accidently raising the landing gear. Now I thought this was impossible when sitting on the ground??
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 44):
Not sure what the pushback procedure is for a 733, but perhaps they didn't install the gear pins prior to pushback.
Mike

Thats not SOP,except for Mx Towing.

The Gear collapse is caused by the Shear Pin on the Strut gives in.Possible a Previous unreported Heavy strike on the NLG on Landing.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Air Nose Gear Collapse At PIT

Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 38):
In fact, the only thing left with USAir titles on it are some B1900s for Air Midwest, I believe. Jdwfloyd will have to back me up on that one. I could've sworn I saw some last March in PSA training.

Yes, a few Air Midwest BE1s are still in the old US Air livery. I actually saw one at PIT yesterday!
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