User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6606
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:18 am

Northwest Flight Attendants Reject Second Tentative Agreement

Passengers Warned To Expect C.H.A.O.S.™



Washington, DC - Northwest Airlines flight attendants, represented by the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA (AFA-CWA), today rejected their second tentative agreement with the company. A majority of flight attendants voted to reject the agreement by a margin of 3,266 to 2,637.

"Our members have spoken: these drastic cuts to our pay, benefits and work rules are simply unacceptable," said Mollie Reiley, AFA-CWA Interim Master Executive Council President. "While we will attempt to go back to the negotiating table with the company, we continue preparing for CHAOS."

AFA-CWA reached the tentative agreement ten days after being elected as the new collective bargaining representative for Northwest flight attendants. Prior to AFA-CWA entering negotiations, a federal bankruptcy judge ordered that cost savings must equal at least $195 million for five years. The court, also established the terms of the previous tentative agreement as the starting point for the latest round of bargaining.

"Our members refuse to watch more than 40 percent of our wages and benefits get funneled into company profits and executive bonuses. It is simply not necessary and will not be tolerated," said Reiley.

In June, the bankruptcy court granted a motion filed by Northwest management seeking to abrogate the contract to impose new terms if no agreement were reached. Management has said these terms, which include drastic changes to pay, benefits and work rules, will be implemented on August 1. AFA-CWA is currently exploring legal options.

, or Create Havoc Around Our System (tm), is AFA-CWA's trademarked strategy of targeted work actions using random, unannounced strikes. If Northwest management imposes contract changes without the flight attendants' consent, AFA-CWA can call for an all-out strike or CHAOS.

For over 60 years, the Association of Flight Attendants has been serving as the voice for flight attendants in the workplace, in the aviation industry, in the media and on Capitol Hill. More than 55,000 flight attendants at 20 airlines come together to form AFA-CWA, the world's largest flight attendant union. AFA is part of the 700,000-member strong Communications Workers of America (CWA), AFL-CIO. Visit us at www.afanet.org.

http://www.nwaafa.org/default.asp?id=264
Made from jets!
 
1rocco
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:46 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:24 am

This is going to get interesting. Good luck NWA F/A's..
 
MattMSP767
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:32 am

I personally don't think that was a smart move on the flight attendants part. Rejecting that and risking NW to impose new pay and work rules is the dumbest thing they could have done. Have they not learned from past labor issues that NW doesn't mess around when it comes to this stuff? What a waste of time and money all this negotiation has turned out to be.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 1):
Good luck NWA F/A's..

Second that.

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 2):
I personally don't think that was a smart move on the flight attendants part. Rejecting that and risking NW to impose new pay and work rules is the dumbest thing they could have done. Have they not learned from past labor issues that NW doesn't mess around when it comes to this stuff? What a waste of time and money all this negotiation has turned out to be.

The cuts being asked for in the agreement were just too much, too unreasonable. They wouldn't be paid except for time in the air. They would have to sit unpaid in the airport if the flight were delayed for instance. Their health and pension benefits would be gutted and they'd be back to levels of pay nearly equal to that in 1990.

This whole CHAOS thing is going to really throw the airline for a loop - and could potentially cripple operations. Not good for NWA. I just wonder why they seem to have to be cutting more from pay and pax services than other airlines.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6606
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 2):
I personally don't think that was a smart move on the flight attendants part. Rejecting that and risking NW to impose new pay and work rules is the dumbest thing they could have done. Have they not learned from past labor issues that NW doesn't mess around when it comes to this stuff? What a waste of time and money all this negotiation has turned out to be.

I think so, we could've had a clear plan to negotiating in the future rather than unknown years of uncertainty. I was tired of this, I wanted to pass so we can move on from this. Well principles won't pay bills, your job does. We're gonna pay for this. More FA's are going to lose their jobs, because senior people won't retire now. Full fledged colon blockage.

[Edited 2006-08-01 00:20:38]
Made from jets!
 
N801NW
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:54 am

 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
I think so, we could've had a clear plan to negotiating in the future rather than unknown years of uncertainty. I was tired of this, I wanted to pass so we can move on from this. But these militant jihadist FA's want to suicide bomb themselves for principles. Well principles won't pay bills, your job does. We're gonna pay for this. More FA's are going to lose their jobs, because senior people won't retire now. Full fledged colon blockage.

They could make more money doing countless other jobs, at this point, which they are qualified to do.

If I came and took your pension away and cut your paycheck in half, would you keep coming to work?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
1rocco
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:46 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:59 am

I feel your pain Jetjack74
1200 buyouts = 1200 furloughs

I think the f/a's let there emotions get in the way when voting. I agree what they were asking for was a lot but the alternative may be much worse. I hope and pray they prove me wrong.

Rocco
 
MattMSP767
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
The cuts being asked for in the agreement were just too much, too unreasonable. They wouldn't be paid except for time in the air. They would have to sit unpaid in the airport if the flight were delayed for instance. Their health and pension benefits would be gutted and they'd be back to levels of pay nearly equal to that in 1990.

I agree with you that what NW is asking of the Flight Attendants is a lot and maybe unreasonable, I don't know...but the FA's may have just shot themselves in the foot by rejecting the second tentative agreement and letting NW impose whatever they want. I'm just not following the union 'logic'.
 
aanyc
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 3:51 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
think so, we could've had a clear plan to negotiating in the future rather than unknown years of uncertainty. I was tired of this, I wanted to pass so we can move on from this. But these militant jihadist FA's want to suicide bomb themselves for principles. Well principles won't pay bills, your job does. We're gonna pay for this. More FA's are going to lose their jobs, because senior people won't retire now. Full fledged colon blockage.

Some times you have to stand up for what you believe in. The employees have always done their part to save NW. In return they constantly were (for lack of a better word) screwed. Enough is enough. To refer to someone who voted no as a terrorist is appalling. If it wasn't for most of these senior people fighting in the past this would have never been a career or job for any of us. Best of luck to all the NW flight attendants.
 
aanyc
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 3:51 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 8):
I agree with you that what NW is asking of the Flight Attendants is a lot and maybe unreasonable, I don't know...but the FA's may have just shot themselves in the foot by rejecting the second tentative agreement and letting NW impose whatever they want. I'm just not following the union 'logic'.

The union did not tell them to vote no. This was the choice of the NW flight attendants.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 7):
I agree what they were asking for was a lot but the alternative may be much worse.

It may be worse for Northwest and its FAs, but this is VERY good news for the other airlines...especially the legacies. We all know that there is too much capacity, too many airlines and a VERY GREAT need for airline consolidation/elimination.

Thanks, NW flight attendants, for helping the industry as a whole. Please CHAOS NW right out of business or into a merger.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:10 am

Hopefully resolution can come in the form of terms that are acceptable to both sides. If not, time will tell.

While I understand the company needs cuts, I don't understand why they continuously go to the employees unless their pay scales are way above/beyond those of their colleagues (see Delta pilots).

It's a shame to see the redtail come to this, but in this instance, I'm wiht the F/As.

Best of luck to all involved.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MattMSP767
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 10):
The union did not tell them to vote no. This was the choice of the NW flight attendants.

I never said or implied they told them to vote 'no'. Time will tell on how their decision will now affect them, their families, the airline and the customers that pay their wages.
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:22 am

Seems NW is being kicked in the rear by the fact that, while there are some great nice people that work for Northwest (i met a few over the weekend in my travels BDL-DTW-ORD-DTW-BDL), there are also some pretty forgettable and downright rude people working there (again, met a few this weekend)... a couple sour apples can ruin a bushel....

But everything else aside, besides the employment of the workers, there isn't much worth saving. Northwest's product, especially on the domestic end, is terrible and barely tolerable even as an elite unless you get upgraded to first. I'm not sure (outside of employees and some aviation buffs) who would miss Northwest if it dissapeared. I'm not saying i'm rooting for their failure, but i certainly wouldn't shed tears over it. Good luck to all involved, the f/a's and the carrier...something tells me both sides are gonna need it.
Go Blue!!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:40 am

No matter what happens, the work group needs to stand up for their rights. If it means losing a job over it, I guess that is what it takes. I would never volunteer to give up 40% of my pay, and benefits for a charity case. Then turn around and watch the CEO's and Execs high five one another while cashing their bonus checks.

What many of you forget is the fact of survival. Airline employees need to survive too. While many of us would be saddened to see an airline fail because of a work groups decision to turn down a contract, we must also understand the reasons to turn it down. Imagine giving up 40% of your pay at the company you work for at this very moment? Imagine making $1,000 per paycheck, and suddenly only making $600 per paycheck? Would that hurt you? Perhaps you could survive on that, but remember those that would collect the same amount on unemployment, and have the freedom to find a job that pays better. Sacrafice is the name of the game. One way or another, the Flight Attendants are facing a sacrafice.

If you can live on a 40% cut, then you have the right to vote. If you can't live on a 40% cut, then you have the right to vote. Obviously the votes clearly show that they are not willing to donate to a chairty case.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):

Thanks, NW flight attendants, for helping the industry as a whole. Please CHAOS NW right out of business or into a merger.

I happen to like NW, and wouldn't want to see them go ch.7.

Quoting Fjnovak1 (Reply 15):
Seems NW is being kicked in the rear by the fact that, while there are some great nice people that work for Northwest (i met a few over the weekend in my travels BDL-DTW-ORD-DTW-BDL), there are also some pretty forgettable and downright rude people working there (again, met a few this weekend)... a couple sour apples can ruin a bushel....

I havn't met any bad ones, only ok, and excellent ones. I took NW MSP-BOS last tuesday in Y and the flight attendents were fenominal, all greeting pax with smiles and good evenings. It was even better than the BOS-MSP flight in first class a few weeks before.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:58 am

"We reached a consensual agreement with the new union recently chosen by our flight attendants and had hoped that Northwest flight attendants would ratify the agreement.”

On July 6, the National Mediation Board announced that Northwest flight attendants voted to have the AFA-CWA replace the Professional Flight Attendants Association (PFAA) as the flight attendants’ bargaining organization.

Becker continued, “Notwithstanding the results of the flight attendants' contract vote, Northwest must continue to move forward with its restructuring efforts. As previously approved by the court, we now are implementing new contract terms and conditions for our flight attendants which are consistent with the judge’s order and with the March 1 tentative contract agreement which was not ratified. This action will result in the required $195 million in annual savings.”
http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/newsc/2006/pr073120061683.html

This doesn't look good.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6606
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 9):
Some times you have to stand up for what you believe in.

Please, if the there was real participation in this vote then maybe I would concede to this, but with only little over 6000 voting this was hardly a loud and clear message

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 9):
The employees have always done their part to save NW.

Highly debatable. Most of us we're only looking out for our own self-interests, not in numbers. There were many who voted it down becuase to them, new workrules were an inconvenience for them. but think about the how this inconvenience could've saved them a little more money rather than the imposed workrules which will, year over year, will give NWA MORE money than the terms in TA-2

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 9):
Enough is enough.

Quite right about that, but the motivations are questionable. THis is only the beginning of a long and painful road for us. Negotiations will most likely drag out longer than the ratifying the TA-2. Continental was stuck with imposed workrules for almost 10 years, and they're contracts were subpar to us even in the best of times.

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 9):
To refer to someone who voted no as a terrorist is appalling

That was out of line, which is why I edited it out. That was anger speaking, but it still doesn't take away form that fact that half-truths and misinformation ruled supreme when it came down to voting because there was very low turnout at the AFA roadshows. People needed to hear what was going on, and the clarifications to the changes. The new TA would've provided further language and sidenotes that would prevent NWA from really screwing us over. So those who voted no can now party their butts off for stupidity

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 9):
If it wasn't for most of these senior people fighting in the past this would have never been a career or job for any of us.

That's not anywhere near true. These senior ladies and germs are hardly trailblazers for the downtrodden and disrespected. These fools gave up so much over the years, that stopping now was harmless to NWA. There is hardly any power in the FA lobby, virtually none. The company steamrolled over this. Judge Gropper was the one who povided ground rules for the abrogating the contract.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
They could make more money doing countless other jobs, at this point, which they are qualified to do.
Maybe, but this isn't assured
If I came and took your pension away and cut your paycheck in half, would you keep coming to work?

This had absolutely nothing to do with it with the TA-1 or 2. Our pensions weren't even part of this. Don't make things up to further your argument, it's pointless

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 12):
Hopefully resolution can come in the form of terms that are acceptable to both sides. If not, time will tell.

I'm not holding my breath. The company has already said that it will implement the new contract at midnight tonight. The rest is all smoke in mirrors. The company isn't really going to negotiate, they'll do the same stalling tactics to that they always do and drag this out for eternity.

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 7):
I feel your pain Jetjack74
1200 buyouts = 1200 furloughs

Not only that, the company was prepared to offer 1400 buyouts, that would've paid for themselves in annual cost savings, inside of 2 years. But that's gone by the wayside now. Buyouts will not be offered according to the company regarding the imposed workrules.

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 7):
I think the f/a's let there emotions get in the way when voting.

This was clearly voted in on anger, and hardly an informed decision.

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 7):
I agree what they were asking for was a lot but the alternative may be much worse.

 checkmark 
Made from jets!
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:12 am

I have to be on the F/A side of things. For years the union at NWA have been giving money back to the company to save it. And in the end they (the employees) have been screwed. But, the management team keeps on getting big bounes and pay increases. If they are in that much trouble why cant the managemnt (upper CEO, COO ect.) give up a chunk of their pay to help the airline. Bottom line the unions at NWA do not and will not trust the upper management enough to help the airline.

I hope NWA does not go into Chapter 7. However, if they strike it will hurt the airline and make it harder for them (NWA) to make it out of Chapter 11. Not to mention that now this is out, travel agencys are less likely to book on NWA. May God be with all these employees that have work all this time with NWA. I hope they will still have a job in the next few months.

Chuck
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6606
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 20):
I have to be on the F/A side of things.

With a slim margin like this, it's hard to tell what side we're actually on. It's was a convincing victory the first time around, but this was a 626 difference. So not a clear victory for anyone, but NWA. Management wanted this not to pass, becuase the imposed workrules are more lucretive.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 20):
I hope NWA does not go into Chapter 7.

I don't believe we will. We'll be around for long time, just not as motivated in future until we merge with someone.
Made from jets!
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 21):
I don't believe we will. We'll be around for long time, just not as motivated in future until we merge with someone.

Interesting, just hopefully not with Delta - guess I prefer my southern hospitality as it is w/o motown infusion
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
N801NW
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 20):
If they are in that much trouble why cant the managemnt (upper CEO, COO ect.) give up a chunk of their pay to help the airline

They have. The salaried employee pension plan has been frozen, future accruals are 401k only. It think there was a 10% average wage cut. Even Steenland has taken a salary cut. Some top officers did get a nice bonus payout recently from the successful sale of NWA's stake in Orbitz to Cendant.
 
Jamake1
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:43 am

Okay. If the new contract terms are being imposed at midnight, why in the hell is the AFA publicly stating that they will give NWA management 15 days notice before they call CHAOS? It seems to me, they should calling for CHAOS immediately in order to get management back to the negotiating table as quickly as possible. I don't understand the lag time... Why is the union willing to work 2 weeks into an IMPOSED contract?
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:48 am

Lets hope this has a diplomatic end, if not time to look at other airlines for travel needs.

Northwest Airlines, was once a great airline, this is like watching a great work of art crumble and be picked away..

Sad, Sad, Sad!

 Sad
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
ualcsr
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:03 am

When does NW report for this quarter? Are they projecting a profit?
 
RyanAFAMSP
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:07 am

N801NW and others,

The pay reductions are just a piece of a much bigger package. Hourly pay rates are reduced, but on top of this the proposal would have done the following:

-Reduce/eliminate pay rigs that help protect worker pay when flights are delayed, cancelled, or rescheduled, and also compensate flight attendants for time sitting on duty in airports between flights.
-Reduce layover time and lengthen duty days, which has huge health/jetlag implications.
-Reduce sick time accrual and sick pay benefits so more absences are unpaid.
-Increase employee medical contributions to further leverage reduced salaries.
-Increase amount of wages required for 401K contribution to do the same as above.

Overall compensation would have been reduced by nearly 40%. Any employee taking a new job should look at the total value of their compensation package. Any good manager would look at the total costs of a new initiative.

The flight attendants have simply decided that the costs of the proposal were too high. This is not an emotionalized response. This is a calculated decision, banked on CHAOS, AFA leaders, and coworkers pressuring the company to return to the table for a more equitable solution.

Good luck to all the flight attendants in these difficult times.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18403
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting RyanAFAMSP (Reply 26):
Good luck to all the flight attendants in these difficult times.

 checkmark  Agree 100%.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
NWBOS
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:01 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:10 am

All I can say to the FA's is good luck. We all know the company has spent millions hiring an all-star legal team who is actively finding any and all ways to beat the system. So far, the ball (namely Judge Groper) has been in their court all along. The FA's should not be criticized for fighting for a livable wage. Both sides have a bit of hot air to expend, but they are going to have to work together if they want to reach an agreement. Unlike what happened with the mechanics, there's no way NWA is going to find replacement workers to staff flights systemwide. If the FA's wanna play hardball, then I second the notion that another poster alluded to -- get the CHAOS rolling! The company does not want bad PR or anything that will damage the trajectory they are on to exit bankruptcy protection. As long as the FA's are not in agreement, NW cannot implement its other cost saving terms with the other groups because of the 'me too' clauses in effect. So, maybe this will give the FA's the edge they need to make the company sweeten the pot a little more.

[Edited 2006-08-01 02:34:35]

[Edited 2006-08-01 02:35:40]
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:13 am

I just hope they don't screw with my flights. I (unfortunately) have to fly NW MSP-EWR to connect to KL, and also NW AMS-DTW-MSP on the way back. Not as concerned about my return as the outbound though, as I have a short connection in Oslo on a separate ticket on the outbound. I'll be pissed to put it mildly.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
1rocco
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:46 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
It seems to me, they should calling for CHAOS immediately in order to get management back to the negotiating table as quickly as possible. I don't understand the lag time... Why is the union willing to work 2 weeks into an IMPOSED contract?

I believe that was a deal between PFAA and NWA. Is it the same for AFA? Anyone have any insight in this?

Rocco
 
N801NW
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting RyanAFAMSP (Reply 26):
N801NW and others,

FWIW: I have not proffered my opinion on the f/a's or the contract rejection. I just wanted to refute the notion that management has not taken any cuts.
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5593
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:28 am

I'm flying DTW-STL on NWA on the afternoon of 8-1-06. I will have to be sure to be nice and give the FAs a thank you. I am sure many of them are rather stressed and passengers who are grumpy are one less thing they should have to deal with. Before someone jumps on me and says don't support NWA because of their labor issues. I must say that if nobody flys them; everyone loses their jobs and I lose my cheap tickets to STL.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
CAL
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:33 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:00 am

So are there any NW F/A's on here that may know if CHAOS is going to happen? Any Ideas?
Does NW have a contingency plan of any sorts?
CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
 
N801NW
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:21 am

 
dw9115
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:29 am

All I HAVE TO SAY IS GOOD JOB Screwing over everyone else that works at Northwest hope you like your mandated pay cuts now and I hope they strike and get thrown in jail  Angry .
 
Jamake1
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:25 am

Dw9115:

They did not screw over anyone else. Let's face it, if NWA ALPA members had rejected two tentatives, I am pretty sure you wouldn't be too worried about the other NWA labor groups. You just may have more to lose than the F/A's, should their union opt to strike. We live in a democracy and the majority (of those who voted) voted to turn it down. What may be acceptable to YOU, may not be acceptable to others. The reality is that as a pilot you EARN more. An overall 40% reduction in the total compensation package when paycuts, work-rules, medical premiums, and other pay factors are factored in, is more painful to someone earning $30-$35,000 per year than somebody earning $100,000 per year. The beauty of living in America is that one has many choices and many oportunities. You cannot make others WRONG for exercising their right to choose, regardless of whether you agree with it or not...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1058
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:33 am

Wouldn't it be sweet if the F/A's had no vacation, no sick time, worked the same-day return from Europe, got back into MSP and couldn't pay rent? What about those ladies and gentlemen who have lost house and home yet work day after day selling bags of trail mix and breathing dry, stale air? All of this is infuriating, is indicative of a social crisis and yet no one seems to care. True, NW flight attendants will see their pay cut to terrible levels, but at least they will have had the satsifaction of having said NO to the ridiculous assumption that accepting crumbs is better than walking away with pride.
 
dw9115
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 37):
They did not screw over anyone else.

Well the taxpayers for the state of Minnesota for one when they are paying welfare for the the F/A's when Northwest gets to implement the pay-cuts they want to. Hope they like there layoffs that are coming.
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5593
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 37):
more painful to someone earning $30-$35,000 per year than somebody earning $100,000 per year.

I would agree. I made that kind of money in the Detroit area a few years ago and it sucked. Not a heck of a lot you can do on $30,000 around here. I was able to afford the smallest house in a lower end neighborhood. I would hate to have to support a family on that. I had a neighbor in STL who was an FA on a airline, that shall remain nameless ( it was not NWA), and she had to live with her mom and dad.

People can feel a squeeze who make the bigger pay checks too. Many people I know have really over extended themselves. Once at the top you can always go down a peg, it sucks, but if you have to... If you are already near the bottom there is no place left to go, but to exit the industry and try to find a better paying job. I know many FAs really like their work and would like to stay in the field, or should I say air.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Jamake1
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 40):
Hope they like there layoffs that are coming.

Be careful about what you hope for...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5593
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 41):
Quoting Falstaff (Reply 40):
Hope they like there layoffs that are coming.

Be careful about what you hope for...

It looks like I agreed to the wrong thing. I was agreeing with the text I quoted from post 37. I do not agree with what was said in post 39. I should have been more clear. It's late and I was up early. I don't want to see anyone lose their jobs.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
ewr767
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:01 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:43 pm

could anyone from nw tell us specifically what they are asking you to give up. Are they really asking you to work the leg back from Europe the same day.
 
Jamake1
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:04 pm

My mistake, not yours Falstaff. I meant to quote DW1195. Your were indeed correct the first time, and I got what you had meant...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
mikesairways
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:55 pm

I"m flying SFO-MSP on Thursday Night (Friday Morning) and MSP-SJC the follwoing Monday - do I have an reason to worry?
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
tcfc424
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:28 pm

Dw9115...You must be under the impression that NW's FA's are getting paid in gold bars. Likely FA's with the lowest seniority already qualify for government assistance, and if they had accepted a 40% wage cut, I imagine they ALL would have qualified for government assistance anyways, so you really don't have much of a point there. However, while you are at it, consider the impact to the federal government as they have to take action on the flurry of foreclosed homes that will be coming with the reduced pay. Oh, and let's not forget the pensions that have or will (not sure) be headed to the PBGC...Perhaps you should direct your anger towards those who allowed such a fine airline to become a shell of its former self.

As far as the situation at NWA, perhaps it is just me, but it sure sounds a lot like CO pre-Bethune. Already one group has walked off (IAM?) and has not returned, and now a second group is ready to walk off. There is no trust in management and no respect for employees. I don't know the specifics about what is going on in the company, but thats how it all sounds to an outsider.

Also, just curious how much NWA spent on interviewing/training/stationing all of those "replacement" FA's last year...How could that money have been better utilized?
 
Jamake1
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:36 pm

Very well said, Tcfc.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
Indy
Posts: 3979
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:08 pm

I basically excused the rejection of the first contract. So the FA's turn around and replace their union with a new one. A tentative agreement is reached and that contract is rejected as well. Why the whole nonsense with replacing the union and promptly giving your new union a no confidence vote with the rejection? I guess I lost any sympathy that I may have had. I feel for the people who approved it and wanted to get on with life. Now I hope they cross. Well... there really isn't a line because with those two rejections as far as I am concerned there isn't a union.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
nwcoflyer
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:55 am

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:27 pm

NW flight attendants made the right choice. A tough one, but a good one. I am sick of arm chair CEO's who have no idea what it is like to work for an airline sit here and say that the flight attendants are being unreasonable.

I bet that if all of you arm chair CEO's actually worked at an airline, your opinion would change almost over night. It does not matter how much you know about this industry, until you have worked in it, you just don't know. It is tough, but can be very rewarding.

I wish NW flight attendants the best.
The New American is arriving.
 
LUVRSW
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: NW Flight Attendants Rejected 2nd TA

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 51):
I basically excused the rejection of the first contract. So the FA's turn around and replace their union with a new one. A tentative agreement is reached and that contract is rejected as well. Why the whole nonsense with replacing the union and promptly giving your new union a no confidence vote with the rejection?

Stall tactic in order to keep the full paychecks coming for a few more weeks. Why accept cuts, when you can stall/delay them?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos