Mason747
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Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:26 pm

On another post I heard that Fedex was looking at aquiring about 150 757s. Is this enough to open up the 757 line up again? Any thoughts on this. If this cant open the 757 line up again, where will they get them?
 
HPRamper
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:30 pm

I don't think there are 150 757s available...200 and 300 combined. It is an extremely popular aircraft and when airlines and other owners have made them available, they have generally been snapped up quickly.
 
Mason747
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:36 pm

Is 150 enough to open the line back up again? The deal would be worth billions to Boeing. Airbus might try to offer the A330.
 
777STL
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:44 pm

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 2):
Is 150 enough to open the line back up again? The deal would be worth billions to Boeing. Airbus might try to offer the A330.

No, and the tooling was most likely disposed of when the line was terminated. I'm afraid it's a bit more difficult than just flicking a switch.

I'm really interested to see where you heard this. This stinks of something created right here at a.net.
PHX based
 
quickmover
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:49 pm

I thought the 757/767 lines were the same. 767 is still a possibillity for the Air Force.tankers and I think it's still open.
 
Mason747
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:49 pm

There was a post created about this topic. They were looking to replace the 727 because of high costs and to fill a gap near the A310.
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:58 pm

The 757 line cannot ever again be opened. There really is no way possible to do it.

The tooling no longer exists, the supply chains have been closed, workers reassigned, etc.

The 757-200 is really honestly not that much bigger than an A310-200. I am not so certain a gap exists.

N
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 3):
No, and the tooling was most likely disposed of when the line was terminated. I'm afraid it's a bit more difficult than just flicking a switch.

I'm really interested to see where you heard this. This stinks of something created right here at a.net.

I'm wondering how easy 757s are to come by as well since DL jumped at the chance to grab the ex-TWA 752s with ETOPs as quickly as they did knowing now how shorthanded they were with that airframe. It all makes it very debatable if Boeing terminated the assembly line too quickly on this one. With DL as committed as they are to maintaining a large fleets of 752s for the foreseeable future, I think it would be quite doubtful that FedEx or UPS would be able to get many discards from passenger fleets. Granted there are a number of airports that can easily take a 752 but can't take a DC-10 or MD-11 that FedEx is loaded with, but I think if FedEx wants something of that size they ought to look at Airbus and the A-321 since that is still an open line. The A330 would have some of the same problems in smaller airports that FedEx has with their DC-10s and MD-11s. I'm not sure if they have an "F" version of that frame, but with the demand for 752s being what is rumored here, Airbus could easily up their A-321 production. Could Boeing resurrect the 752 and 753? Probably not.
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brons2
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
The 757 line cannot ever again be opened. There really is no way possible to do it.

Well, without starting pretty much from scratch, which Boeing ain't ever gonna do.

So yeah, what you said.

Maybe Boeing can offer an -800F with the short takeoff and landing mods that were recently certified. I wonder what kind of load that would get.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
The A330 would have some of the same problems in smaller airports that FedEx has with their DC-10s and MD-11s.

More. Much more.

The DC-10 and MD-11 have much smaller wingspans than an A330, even an A330-200.

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 8):
Maybe Boeing can offer an -800F with the short takeoff and landing mods that were recently certified. I wonder what kind of load that would get.

I would counter by saying a -900ER/F would be a superior platform for FedEx and for the world.

Since there is already a -700C, a -900ER/F or /C would be an ideal size difference.

If Boeing does not offer same, I would expect business to flow to A320 and A321 freighter conversions.

N
 
starstream707
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:38 pm

737-900F now that's an idea. Basically a 707-120F with more efficient engines (same floor space size I mean). It seems like there was 1 or 2 707-120F's somewhere but not many at all. That would be cool to a see -900F. With as many orders for the -800 series and -900ER that there I'm surprized someone hasn't requested an -800F or -900F from Boeing.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:01 pm

Interestingly, Boeing offered Fedex a good deal on the 757s when sales for the type began to wind down.....Fedex did not take up the offer and Boeing closed the 757 line. (Remember that Fedex took the last 15 72S aircraft years ago in a similiar type deal.) There is no way that Boeing can re-start 757 production....its over, finished and done.

Its unlikely that Fedex would be interested in new build airplanes to replace their 721 and 72S fleets.....it would be second hand airplanes. Fedex has rather low fleet utilization for its shorter haul airplanes to make its network operate, and sometimes airplanes only do one roundtrip per day from a station into a hub and return, not the type of thing that requires a factory fresh airplane for packages and cargo.

With demand for the 757 high and most airlines not planning to retire their 757s in the near-term future, Fedex is going to have a difficult finding airplanes, regardless of whether they are powered by RR or PW engines.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:27 pm

i don't see any futher for the 757F in FedEx fleet, I think its more reasonable to think that Fedex will go for the A320/A321/767-200, since Airbus launched a convertion programm didn't they? And the 767-200 will fit the job as well, combined with a smaller aircraft.

I actually think we might see huge changes in the FedEx fleet in the upcomming 5-7 years. The DC-10/MD-10's seem like getting more and more technical problems each day, and with the rising fuell price its really becomming an expesive plane, i think we might see a 767/777/A330 order in the near future.

[Edited 2006-08-02 13:37:19]
 
memphis
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
The 757-200 is really honestly not that much bigger than an A310-200. I am not so certain a gap exists

On the contrary; I think that the A310-200 is bigger than the 757-200. The 310 is definately wider and the length is about the same.
nocturnal
 
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 4):
I thought the 757/767 lines were the same.

No, the 757 was built in Renton, the 767 is built in Everett. The space that formerly was used for building the 757 is now used for a 2nd 737 production line.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
coiah756ca
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
the 757 was built in Renton, the 767 is built in Everett. The space that formerly was used for building the 757 is now used for a 2nd 737 production line.

 checkmark 

I think that the 757 would look great in FedEx colors. I'm getting tired of seeing the A300 all over the place.
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
 
CX747
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:22 am

The only rumors that I have heard floating around is that FEDEX may be a potential A330-200F customer. There is always a possibility of FEDEX getting 757s but where are they going to get 150 of them? They would have to snap up all of United's and then find another airline for 40-60+ more aircraft.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
dvk
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:25 am

Isn't it likely that the oldest 757's will begin retiring from commercial fleets in the next couple of years, allowing for conversions to cargo configuration? While the 757 had a slow start with orders initially, there are still a significant number of 752's that are 20+ years old.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
jonathan-l
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 2):
Airbus might try to offer the A330.

The A330 is in a different size category, more a DC-10 replacement. The competitor for a 757F is an A320/A321P2F solution (P2F: pax to freighter)

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
I think if FedEx wants something of that size they ought to look at Airbus and the A-321 since that is still an open line

The line is open but the A321P2F would not come from Toulouse or Hamburg. The A320-A321P2F solution is a conversion solution, ie converting already manufactured pax aircraft into freighters. Similar to what EFW does in Dresden with A300 and A310.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
since Airbus launched a convertion programm didn't they?

There is an agreement (announced in June 2006) between EFW, Airbus and Irkut for engineering and conversion work. The agreement still has to be formally finalized.
 
CX747
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:31 am

Does anyone have any information backing up this claim or possible rumor?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
And the 767-200 will fit the job as well, combined with a smaller aircraft.

The 767-200 is bigger than an A310... and the A310-300 (depending on the 767) more fuel efficient.

Lets see if they rip through all the A310-300s first, then turn to the 767.

Quoting Memphis (Reply 13):
On the contrary; I think that the A310-200 is bigger than the 757-200. The 310 is definately wider and the length is about the same.

Oh I completely agree, the A310-200 is bigger than the 757-200. But I do not believe it is enough bigger than a 727-200 to warrant another type, especially as light and cheap as the A310-200 is.

N
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
The 767-200 is bigger than an A310... and the A310-300 (depending on the 767) more fuel efficient

Are you saying that Boeing really didn't win the bet with TWA more than 20 years ago that the 767 was more fuel efficient than the A310?

I don't think that any version of the A310 is more fuel efficient than any version of the 762.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
memphis
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:13 am

I don't like the idea of replacing an aircraft such as the 727, yet it will happen, someday. I have heard that FedEx has been trying to replace the A/C for years, yet for one reason or another, have not been able to follow through. They are an incredible A/C, a true workhorse, easy and quick to load/un-load, and they are paid for. The only draw-backs I see are: age, the 3 man cock-pit, and fuel burn. INHO, if availability was not an issue, I think that the 757 would indeed be the best replacement for the 727. The width of the cabin is close to that of the 727, just longer, and taller. Another issue facing FedEx with the 757 is gate space, a 757 roughly takes up 1.5 gates to every 2 for a 727.

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 15):
I think that the 757 would look great in FedEx colors.

I agree, I think it would look awesome!

P.S. I think FedEx should indeed pursue the 757, we must keep a healthy balance of Airbus, Boeing, and DC/MD!
nocturnal
 
Johnny
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:24 am

"The 767-200 is bigger than an A310"

No, they have the same size in terms of pax numbers.The B762 is longer, the A312 is shorter, but has a wider fuselage.

 Smile
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:12 am

Yes this is just a rumor that has been going on for years not just at A.Net but at Fedex also. It's very hard to find a 727 replacement, I think right now they'll just find more 310/300s.
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 21):
Are you saying that Boeing really didn't win the bet with TWA more than 20 years ago that the 767 was more fuel efficient than the A310?

Oh come come now, an A310-200 maybe. But an A310-300 vs a 767-200? CF6-80C2s vs JT-9Ds and -80As?

Quoting Johnny (Reply 23):

No, they have the same size in terms of pax numbers.The B762 is longer, the A312 is shorter, but has a wider fuselage.

Perhaps... we should count square footage.  Smile

N
 
brons2
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:55 am

BTW, the current FedEx fleet:

31 MD11s (30 on order)
36 A300
44 A310
73 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-10s (9 on order)
22 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-30s
152 Boeing 727s
261 Cessna 308s
32 Fokker F-27s
11 Shorts SD3-60
0 Ayers LM 200 (75 on order)
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
trevd
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
Oh come come now, an A310-200 maybe. But an A310-300 vs a 767-200? CF6-80C2s vs JT-9Ds and -80As?

Wow, someone quick go tell Continental, US Airways, LOT, Malev, Thomsonfly that their 762's don't have CF6-80C2's on them !!
 
airlinelover
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 26):
31 MD11s (30 on order)
73 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-10s (9 on order)

Aren't the MD-11 and the DC-10 lines completely finished??? Unless they are all conversions.

Also, I don't ever recall seeing a freighter version of the A321..


Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
thering
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 26):

What about the ATRs??
146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting TrevD (Reply 27):
Wow, someone quick go tell Continental, US Airways, LOT, Malev, Thomsonfly that their 762's don't have CF6-80C2's on them !!

Those are all 767-200ERs, friend.

N
 
cf6ppe
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 26):
BTW, the current FedEx fleet:

31 MD11s (30 on order)
36 A300
44 A310
73 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-10s (9 on order)
22 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-30s
152 Boeing 727s
261 Cessna 308s
32 Fokker F-27s
11 Shorts SD3-60
0 Ayers LM 200 (75 on order)

What is the source of the above quoted data..??

The FedEx website as of the time of this post lists the following fleet inventory:

671 aircraft, including:
53 Airbus A300-600s
65 Airbus A310-200/300s
11 ATR 72s
29 ATR 42s
13 Boeing 727-100s
94 Boeing 727-200s
25 Boeing DC10-10s
17 Boeing DC10-30s
41 Boeing MD10-10s
6 Boeing MD10-30s
58 Boeing MD11s
10 Cessna 208As
243 Cessna 208Bs
9 Fokker F-27s
 
dispatcher
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:14 pm

You may want to verify your source there Brons2..
 
trevd
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 30):
Those are all 767-200ERs, friend.

So? The ER went to range not fuel efficiency!
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:22 pm

Quoting TrevD (Reply 33):
So? The ER went to range not fuel efficiency!

And where do you think some of that range came from?

CF6-80C is a significantly quieter and more fuel efficient aero engine than the -80A.

N
 
Jetfixr757
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:22 pm

Contrary to what you all may hear, I know of 2 757's that have been scrapped already, due to time and cycles, one in Britain and one in Florida, both of which were pictured right here on A-Net. DHL has gotten alot of ex BA 757's. They are not real popular outside of the USA, AA, UA, DL, NWA, USAir/AmWest and UPS seem to have the majority of the 57's operarting today. None of which are about to be parked. Look at the pictures in Mirana, Victorville, and Roswell, places like that. You may see one or two 757's but not in numbers, the early Eastern ones are all gone, and there are quite a few private ones floating around as well. Next to the Concord, the 757 had supposedly the highest climb rate for a civilian airliner, remember, the 57 was a serious contributer to the wake turbulance issues when I believe USAir lost a 37 and they narrowed it down to wake and the rule about minimum 3 miles in trail of 57's came about.
Jet.

[Edited 2006-08-03 05:23:32]

[Edited 2006-08-03 05:25:22]
 
trevd
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:29 pm

Back to the topic at hand... Believe Fedex will opt for the 757 and the only other a/c in contention is the 737-400. Know they've been looking at some of the earlier US Airways 734's that GECAS has. 757 has the benefit of size and lower cycles on average which will provide a longer useful life in Fedex's low utilization role.

Also agree we're likely to see A330-200F's there, somewhat grudgingly as the a/c they really want is the -300F as they need cubic volume not payload.
 
Jetfixr757
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:02 pm

I saw a picture a year or so ago of a 37-300 getting a cargo door and one completed, i was told they were for FE, but i guess they went to KH, a bit of trivia, the one of the first UPS cargo flights was with a 37 frieghter.
Jet.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
Oh come come now, an A310-200 maybe. But an A310-300 vs a 767-200? CF6-80C2s vs JT-9Ds and -80As?

What features did the A313 have that made it more fuel effecient than even a 762? The basic A312 was so far behind the 762 in fuel efficiency that the A310 series could never catch up.

The A310 suffers from its plump body and the fact that it has significantly less span than the 762. The A313 was primarly an MTOW and fuel volume increase to fix the basic A312 range problems relative to the 767. It's efficiency gains (engine and airframe) were modest and no additional passengers were carried.

The 763ER really put the A313 at a disadvantage in terms of fuel burn per passenger and payload range.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
coiah756ca
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:09 pm

Sorry, a bit a off topic from Fedex. Just thought I would share.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 38):

Well said.. I definitely love to fly the 762. The 764 beats it, but the 762 just has a perfect feel to it. It's not too short and not too long. It's way easier to land than the 764. If you'll notice on the 756 diff. card in my ID pack. The weights are perfectly about "heavy".. Also the 180 degree turn #. Moving the 762 around is much easier than the 764 and 753..

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k79/bmtair/scan0003_2.jpg

Just my two cents
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
 
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:41 pm

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 15):
I'm getting tired of seeing the A300 all over the place.

C'mon, they are fine aircraft for the job that they are being applied to. They have also been plentiful and cheap. What else could FedEx ask for? And the reason there is no 727 replacement is there is no similarly sized aircraft available that is plentiful and cheap. We've had this discussion several times before (check the archives) and it seems the replacement will probably be a 737 or A320 family aircraft. What needs to happen is for bunches of them to be retired all at once so they become plentiful and cheap. Perhaps this will happen when the 737RS / A320-NSR becomes available. We'll see if FedEx can afford to keep flying 727s till then.

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 18):
There is an agreement (announced in June 2006) between EFW, Airbus and Irkut for engineering and conversion work. The agreement still has to be formally finalized.

Is it just me, or does it seem to take forever for deals to close with companies in the former Soviet Union?
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
baylorairbear
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 39):

Regarding the 180 degree turn, are those numbers in feet? And, how would I interpret them? In example, does the 752 reguire a space 125 feet wide to make the turn?

Thanks,

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:26 pm

Any link to this FEDEX 150 idea.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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yyz717
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:19 pm

I don't see Fedex buying 752's to replace the 722 fleet, for several reasons:
1. The 752 capacity is v close to the 312/313 fleet.
2. A 752 fleet (as a 722 replacement) would leave a large capacity gap with the ATR72. I.E., a smaller 721-sized aircraft would be needed.
3. I also do not see a readily available fleet of 752's on the used market for conversion.

I also don't see Fedex buying new 739ERX, or any new aircraft to replace the 722 fleet:
1. The 722 fleet is largely used in the US domestic market which is mature, and one would assume not overly profitable, so why invest unnecessary capital.
2. The 722 fleet has very low utilization (perhaps 4-5 hours per day), hence it would be a waste of capital to have new aircraft purchased for such low utilization.

The best 722 replacement is the 733/734F or the 320/321F platform. When the time is right. Given the low utilization of the 722 fleet(which mitigates the high fuel cost somewhat), that time may be far in the future (5-10 years or more).

N
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
coiah756ca
Posts: 487
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RE: Fedex And The 757

Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 41):
Regarding the 180 degree turn, are those numbers in feet? And, how would I interpret them? In example, does the 752 reguire a space 125 feet wide to make the turn?

Imagine all the sudden if you just decided to make a 180 degree turn to your left. You finish the turn, you required a space with the radius of XXX ft. Determine radius by distance where you started to where you finish the turn.

The CONFIG is in first class/coach. .on the 752 we know have BusinessFirst/Coach also..

The max weights are in 1,000 pounds. (i.e. 250.0 = 250,000 pounds.)
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN

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