rwsea
Posts: 2422
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Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:38 pm

I know some people hate these kinds of questions, but I'm going to ask anyway because I'm curious  Smile !

DL added several new destinations this summer, including the routes listed below:

JFK-Kiev
JFK-Budapest
ATL-Dusseldorf
ATL-Copenhagen
ATL-Edinburgh
ATL-Tel Aviv

We've all heard on this board that ATL-TLV has exceeded expectations. But what about some of the new routes? Have any been flops? Any pleasant surprises?

Does anyone who has taken one of these flights have any insight? Any info is appreciated.
 
AV8AJET
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:54 pm

I took the ATL-EDI flight a week after it started. It left 3 hours late from ATL (due to a mechanical) but was 100% full in Y and J class to EDI. On the way back it was about 80% full in Y and 50% in J. The flight was great and the service was excellent ( I was in J class). I can't speak for the other flights but I've heard that the ATL-DUS is doing exceptionally well.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:10 pm

Greetings from The airport of the former prez (JFK) All of our new JFK-Europe flights are doing amazing. Awaiting the LGW flight which I predict will do well as most of our new intl destinations are being feed through our new DCI flights.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
exusair
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:14 pm

All of the new routes have done well. JFK-GRU has exceeded expectations, RG and their misfortunes have probably influenced that.

From ATL, all have been winners. TLV has slacked off due to the recent events, the flights go over light, but come back full. UIO/GYE has been heavily booked in both directions.

All of the seasonal stuff like NCE, ATH, VCE, and BCN have been running full for the most part.

The only disapointer has been ATL-SNN. trying to fill 287 seats a day has been a tough task.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 2):
Greetings from The airport of the former prez (JFK) All of our new JFK-Europe flights are doing amazing.

While most of the new routes are doing amazing, I think it was JW or EB who also said that there are two JFK routes that haven't been hits right off the bat - Kiev and Budapest. They're not giving up, but indicated that they haven't been as successful as most of the other routes - example ATL-TLV started to make money in the second week or so...

Time will tell, but I believe you'll see most of the routes here to stay!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Jaws707
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:48 pm

Does anyone know how the DL route from ORD-LGA is doing? They face plenty of competition on the route from UA and AA. I flew it a few months back, and it was 100% full on one trip, but on the way back it was closer to about 50% full.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 3):
All of the new routes have done well.

Glad to hear this although the true test will be after peak summer season and after DL emerges from BK.
 
panamair
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
there are two JFK routes that haven't been hits right off the bat - Kiev and Budapest

KBP has been decent in the back but quite tough up front. Routes like this are medium-to-long term investments and I believe (or certainly hope) that DL has taken that into account; the hope is that traffic builds as those countries further develop. The market will never be big enough for more than one U.S. carrier and DL is taking some hits up front to get its foot in the door, betting that the route will develop. I've heard that BUD is OK and has been doing as expected - not gangbusters like some of the others. JFK-DUB/SNN, on the other hand....packed, packed, packed.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 5):
Does anyone know how the DL route from ORD-LGA is doing?

DL has indicated that they are quite pleased with the performance of the ORD-LGA route. The use of the super-convenient and efficient Marine Air Terminal at LGA has helped draw in and maintain many customers - not bad given the weekday hourly service offered by AA and UA.

[Edited 2006-08-03 16:09:38]
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
The market will never be big enough for more than one U.S. carrier and DL is taking some hits up front to get its foot in the door, betting that the route will develop.

agree and long-terms should be viable.

now shall we really start talking about what we've "heard"

LOL.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
krisyyz
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
I've heard that BUD is OK and has been doing as expected - not gangbusters like some of the others

Im not surprised to hear that. The MA flight leaves 5 minutes before the DL does on both legs. When DL announced the relaunch of the BUD flights, MA quickly signed a code share agreement with AA which also lets MA pax connected to 18 US cities via JFK.

Wasn't BUD-JFK a joint MA & DL flight in the 90's? I distinctly remember DL FA's on the MA flight.

KrisYYZ.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:33 pm

While I cannot say about loads on all flights I was recently on DL from ATL-CDG and AF from CDG-CPH. Going over to Paris was full as usual. After some business in Normandy I went on to CPH and the return flight to ATL from CPH appeared to be close to full if not full. J class was full and I believe from the looks of it Y was 85-90% full. I asked the FA how the route was going and she indicated that it was exceeding expectations. I believe though that this one route has got to tail off towards Oct./Nov. I would think. Though there may be some vacationers at that point going to Florida perhaps.

All in all it seems like DL is on the right track.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
sspontak
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:38 pm

How are some of the other new domestic runs from NYC doing?

LGA-MIA
LGA-DFW
LGA-LAX Sat. only
LGA-LAS Sat. only

JFK-SAN
Go Delta!
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:42 pm

Quoting Sspontak (Reply 11):
LGA-MIA
LGA-DFW

decent, getting better, not fully gangbusters from what I've heard, catering mostly to the DL crowds in NYC travelling to these two destinations, but pulling in a few others ...

Not sure about the rest of the routes you posted
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:41 am

Good info. Let's hope Kiev and Budapest can start to build a following, and can become successful like SVO and other markets where DL is the only carrier.
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Sspontak (Reply 11):
How are some of the other new domestic runs from NYC doing?

LGA-MIA
LGA-DFW

LGA-MIA has been doing decently well, but will become an E70 in the fall (which, IMO, is an "upgrade" in terms of passenger comfort). The problem with the MIA-LGA flight is that they don't offer a morning departure from Miami or an evening departure from New York, which makes it harder to get the business travelers. Hard to compete with AA's twenty daily MIA-NYC runs if you don't offer at least three.
a.
 
pilot21
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
JFK-DUB/SNN, on the other hand....packed, packed, packed.

Pleased to hear that, given EI serves the route up to 3 times a day (2 x Dublin and 1 x SNN) and CO do it up to 3 times a day as well (but obviously to EWR), is it all Y though or is C getting good loads as well?
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
DL has indicated that they are quite pleased with the performance of the ORD-LGA route. The use of the super-convenient and efficient Marine Air Terminal at LGA has helped draw in and maintain many customers - not bad given the weekday hourly service offered by AA and UA.

I think this a great example of a company using an asset (the MAT) that no one else can duplicate in a way that helps them grow into a new market that most people wouldn't have given them a chance at. Good job DL!!

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
iowaman
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Sspontak (Reply 11):
LGA-LAX Sat. only
LGA-LAS Sat. only

LGA-LAS appears to be doing extremely well, and LGA-LAX average.

ATL-CID and SLC-DSM also appear to be doing extremely well.

Anyone have any more info on those routes?
 
Evan767
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 15):
Pleased to hear that, given EI serves the route up to 3 times a day (2 x Dublin and 1 x SNN) and CO do it up to 3 times a day as well (but obviously to EWR), is it all Y though or is C getting good loads as well?

Well, it's all Y as the flight is being loaded as an all Y 764 with upgrades for medallions and non-revs.

Quoting Sspontak (Reply 11):
How are some of the other new domestic runs from NYC doing?
LGA-LAX Sat. only

I flew this route on July 15. The flight showed 77 seats the day before (non-revving). It did however fill up because a JFK flight cancelled and they shuttled some people over to LGA and made it a completely full flight. But overall, I would say LGA-LAX is doing OK to good. This saturday shows the flight as overbooked by 1.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
pilot21
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 18):
LGA-LAX is doing OK to good

DL have a LGA-LAX flight? what equipment flies the route? and I thought LGA had a limit on the distance an airport could be served from LGA (e.g. 1K miles etc) Cheers for the info.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 19):
DL have a LGA-LAX flight? what equipment flies the route? and I thought LGA had a limit on the distance an airport could be served from LGA (e.g. 1K miles etc) Cheers for the info.

Flown saturday only when the perimeter rule is not in effect. Aircraft is Boeing 757-232.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Eirules
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:05 am

Any chance we will see another new DL route to Ireland next summer?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:11 am

Any chance we will see another new DL route to Europe next summer?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
freakfor747
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:35 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:19 am

What about SLC-ASE? or does that not count because it's Skywest?
LAX ROCKS
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 17):
ATL-CID and SLC-DSM also appear to be doing extremely well.

Anyone have any more info on those routes?

I would like to know too about ATL-CID. From the seat maps it always looks booked solid, was wondering if maybe they will add another flight or two.
 
backfire103
Posts: 101
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:37 am

Anyone know how the load factors are playing out on JFK-ALB route that delta revived?
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 24):
I would like to know too about ATL-CID. From the seat maps it always looks booked solid, was wondering if maybe they will add another flight or two.

An additional flight would be welcomed for sure, and as you said loads look great on the seat maps.

Quoting Freakfor747 (Reply 23):
What about SLC-ASE? or does that not count because it's Skywest?

It appears to be doing better than I would of expected, especially considering it's slow season. However, they may have a few seats blocked off, so it's hard to tell.

Quoting Backfire103 (Reply 25):
Anyone know how the load factors are playing out on JFK-ALB route that delta revived?

Appears to be doing well also. ALB-JFK shows all four flights open with some seats available, however only one JFK-ALB comes up tomorrow.
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting Freakfor747 (Reply 23):
What about SLC-ASE? or does that not count because it's Skywest?

They recently added a second daily if that tells you anything. I think it kind of surprised everybody.
 
dptMAN
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:18 pm

How about the JFK-MAN service?
dptMAN
 
panamair
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 9):
Wasn't BUD-JFK a joint MA & DL flight in the 90's? I distinctly remember DL FA's on the MA flight.

Yes, DL and MA codeshared on the flight (that was when DL was codesharing with just about everyone - SR, SN, MA, VS, AY...)

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
LGA-MIA has been doing decently well, but will become an E70 in the fall (which, IMO, is an "upgrade" in terms of passenger comfort).

Unfortunately, the current winter schedule shows both LGA-MIAs turning into CR7s!! Yikes! Hopefully, they will reverse that decision as they continue to finalize the winter skeds.

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 28):
How about the JFK-MAN service?

Hot and cold..started out slowly, decent during the peak months, but 280+ seats daily is too much capacity there - already slated to use a 763ER in 2007, and probably a 752 (ex-TW once those come online) the following winter.

Quoting Backfire103 (Reply 25):
Anyone know how the load factors are playing out on JFK-ALB route that delta revived?

Don't know about ALB but the one upstate NY route that is exceeding expectations is JFK-BUF. So much so that service there is being increased from 4x daily to 5x in September.
 
DALelite
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RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:31 pm

Good to hear that DL is on the right track again.
Go Delta Go!

DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
Alitalia744
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 29):
Quoting Backfire103 (Reply 25):
Anyone know how the load factors are playing out on JFK-ALB route that delta revived?

Don't know about ALB but the one upstate NY route that is exceeding expectations is JFK-BUF. So much so that service there is being increased from 4x daily to 5x in September.

Careful Panamair - jetbluenyc/fan1/bluejuice/isthebest/insert whatever nick after jetblue here - may get on you for assuming another airline can go into a market without PTVs and actually make money  Wink
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Concorde001
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 29):
Hot and cold..started out slowly, decent during the peak months, but 280+ seats daily is too much capacity there - already slated to use a 763ER in 2007, and probably a 752 (ex-TW once those come online) the following winter.

You might be right there:

BA - daily to JFK 763
CO - doubly daily to EWR (Summer) 752 or 752 / 762
CO - daily to EWR (Winter) 764 / 772
PK - thrice weekly 743 / 772 / 742

And if Delta is relying on a lot of connecting traffic, then there is competition from:

US - daily to PHL A333
DL - daily to ATL 763
AA - daily to ORD 763
AA - daily to BOS 752
BD - daily to ORD A332

Incidentally, does anyone know if DL is relying on mainly O & D traffic like BA, or whether they are trying to gain connecting traffic? If it is the latter, how does the JFK service affect the MAN-ATL service?
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 29):

Unfortunately, the current winter schedule shows both LGA-MIAs turning into CR7s!! Yikes! Hopefully, they will reverse that decision as they continue to finalize the winter skeds.

The CR7s are there for a placeholder. It will be E70s.
a.
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
The CR7s are there for a placeholder. It will be E70s

Phew! Thanks

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 32):
Incidentally, does anyone know if DL is relying on mainly O & D traffic like BA, or whether they are trying to gain connecting traffic? If it is the latter, how does the JFK service affect the MAN-ATL service?

I'm sure DL is relying on everything - whatever traffic they can get. JFK can handle the connecting traffic that would require backtracking if going through ATL - e.g., BUF, ROC, SYR, ALB, BOS, PVD, PHL, IAD, DCA, BWI, BTV, MHT, PWM, RIC, ORF, RDU, PIT, CLE, DTW, CMH, etc. Also, MAN-JFK on the 764 offers a helluva lot more seats in Economy than the ATL 763ER flight (approx. 285 vs. 174-180) so JFK can also handle the connection spillover from the ATL flight to places like LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, SLC, ORD, SAN, Florida, etc.
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:28 am

KBP is doing exteremly well, in terms of both load & yield from what I hear. Let's see how it does this winter. AeroSvit isn't really doing much (if anything) to compete with Delta.
What now?
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:20 am

How is the EDI-ATL service doing? Any plans to change it to GLA?  stirthepot 
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
SANFan
Posts: 3671
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting Sspontak (Reply 11):
How are some of the other new domestic runs from NYC doing?

JFK-SAN

I can report that DL has resch'd the SAN-JFK flight to an 8AM departure eff. 9/06; it is currently a red-eye. I consider this an indication that DL is at least finally taking the flight seriously and moving it to where it should have been all along. I for one am very pleased with this. Finally, the flight can actually be sold as a valid connector with the int'l departures from JFK. I would love to know from someone at DL how the loads and yields are now on this on-again, off-again service.

As explanation for my above opinions, DL first ran their SAN-JFK flight (in the late 90s) as an early morning departure enabling connections with the evening int'l bank. It stopped in PHX. (I took the flight in April 1999 to connect to ATH.) Finally they made it N/S from SAN and gave PHX its own N/S. Then 9/11 happened. Shortly thereafter, the flight was xld.

I have been scratching my head a lot about the feeble attempts over the last couple of years by DL to re-introduce the service. Not once did they schedule it when it should have departed: 7:30 to 8:30 AM.

AA has had their Kennedy nonstop (the first and oldest transcon from SAN) running continuously for at least 35 years, always departing around 8AM, and always very popular with both business and leisure travelers. That is the primo time for west coast transcon departures and that is exactly when DL should be leaving. (It still intrigues me that B6, with up to 3 daily N/S to JFK, has never scheduled a flight at that time.) If DL wants to add a second and third departure, then fine, add an early PM or late night departure to compete with B6 (and AA's additional flights.)

BTW, the JFK-SAN flight is fine where it is: evening. This again is the best time for business and leisure O & D pax as well as providing connections from all of the int'l arrivals.

IMHO, DL is finally getting it right and I predict the flight will do well, quite possibly even being upgraded to at least a 757 soon? Go Delta!

bb
 
Damian
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:01 pm

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:14 pm

Quoting GKirk (Reply 36):
How is the EDI-ATL service doing? Any plans to change it to GLA?

None whatsoever. EDI route appears to be doing much better than many in here expected. Circa 80% load factor in its first month of operation, and it carried more pax in the three weeks of June 06 in which it ran than the established US Airways GLA-PHL service carried over four weeks.

DL will in all likelihood look to add an additional flight from GLA (whether ATL or JFK) but it won't be a replacement for EDI-ATL.
 
by738
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:18 pm

Quoting Damian (Reply 38):
it carried more pax in the three weeks of June 06 in which it ran than the established US Airways GLA-PHL service carried over four weeks.

You would hope so given that a 763 carries more pax than a 752 even in DL configuration
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 31):
Careful Panamair - jetbluenyc/fan1/bluejuice/isthebest/insert whatever nick after jetblue here - may get on you for assuming another airline can go into a market without PTVs and actually make money

LOL Seems to be the fashion to do on here. I am astonished at how well the new JFK DH8 flights are working. Seems all are either sold out, or carrying at least a 90% LF, which usually works very well on a DH8 aircraft. Any flights that are not completely sold out seem to be those that do not have great arrival times or viable connecting bank times. Most of those seem to be chosen by mainly O&D passengers.

Seems odd that just a couple of months ago, everyone seemed to be saying that they would never fly a DH8 when they have a choice with a jet and PTV's. Apparently, either decisions have changed or there are enough people who DO prefer the DH8. I guess just not everyone requires PTV's on such short flights, or prefers Delta service. Either that, or they like that spiffy new paintjob on a DeHavilland.  Wink



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Eirules
Posts: 1446
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 37):
I can report that DL has resch'd the SAN-JFK flight to an 8AM departure eff. 9/06; it is currently a red-eye. I consider this an indication that DL is at least finally taking the flight seriously and moving it to where it should have been all along. I for one am very pleased with this. Finally, the flight can actually be sold as a valid connector with the int'l departures from JFK. I would love to know from someone at DL how the loads and yields are now on this on-again, off-again service

I am flying DUB-SAN in Oct and flying outbound via JFK but am flying hoe via ATL due to there being no scedule from SAN-DUB via JFK. I'm pretty happey the way it turned out coz SAN-JFK is a 738 and SAN-ATL is a 763, much prefer widebodies
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Success Of New DL Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:30 pm

It's the power of interlining and a same-terminal connection. JFK T3 is just as good (or bad) as IAD or EWR for a passenger transiting to Burlington, Cleveland, Portland ME etc.
-Mr. X
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