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As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:53 pm

interesting transformation of "TWA" name in history

Before: Transcontinental and Western Air

After: Trans World Airlines

Comments, anyone?


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scbriml
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:58 pm

Don't know if it's true, but in the film "The Aviator" Howard Hughes changed the name when he wanted to compete with PanAm on international routes - he was pleased that the change of name kept the same initial letters avoiding a costly rebrand. Allegedly it was also he who added the globe graphic, emphasising the intenational nature of the airline.
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ANother
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:51 pm

They weren't the only ones, and came about from the US postmaster general manipulating the airlines. Check out http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi...ry/coming%20of%20age/airlines2.htm

excerpt
The prevailing attitude was that this restriction would never hold up in court, so the government simply turned a blind eye when the same companies submitted bids under very mildly altered names. Eastern Air Transport became Eastern Airlines; Transcontinental and Western Air became Trans-World Airlines, retaining its TWA logo; and American Airways became American Airlines. The only one of the Big Four that did not change its name was United Air Lines, partly because Bill Boeing refused to he a part of the charade, but also because by then Boeing had undergone the most radical changes resulting from the New Deal "Trust-Busters."
 
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asqx
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:53 pm

With the "shotgun merger" of Trancontinental Air Transport and Western Air in 1930, TWA was formed, officially as Transcontinental and Western, Air Inc. Aircraft were mostly painted with simple TWA titles, although the occasional "The Transcontinental Line," "The Lindgergh Line" and other slogans/titles appeared as well. They operated under this name for some time, with the official corporate name not changing until 1950, even though Trans World Airline titles had been seen as early as 1945, with the Taj Mahal, a DC-4, the first plane to carry these titles overseas. Trans World Airlines titles didn't become common place until after the 1950 corporate name change.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:16 pm

From what I had read, the name change came in 1950. In the movie, in the late 40's, Howie was standing by a connie, a 1049 which wasn't invented until 1952 and the sign on the hanger said Trans World Airline...another movie flaw.
The tech advisor to "The Aviator" missed that one. Of course, it should have read Transcontinental & Western Airline in the 40's.
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BigGSFO
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:23 pm

When I worked for TWA in 1987-1991 in customer service (during the Icahn years), we used to refer to us as "Try Walking Across."  Smile
 
PHLBOS
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:42 pm

According to the special Airways magazine tribute to TWA; following the disasterous merger w/AA, many ex-TW employees believe that TWA now stands for Totally Wasted by American.  mad 
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commavia
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
According to the special Airways magazine tribute to TWA; following the disasterous merger w/AA, many ex-TW employees believe that TWA now stands for Totally Wasted by American

First off, I really don't know why you regard the merger as "diasterous." From an operational and logistical standpoint, it was one of the most flawlessly executed mergers in history, with virtually no technology or operational issues. This was no Republic-Northwest, with thousands of bags piled up, flight attendants not knowing which plane to get on, or drink carts not fitting into galleys. This merger was slow and smooth.

From a personal perspective, of course, it was more turbulent, as the majority of former TWA employees were furloughed or laid off. However, this was much more a function of September 11 and of the unions' integration of the seniority lists than of American Airlines' execution of the merger. The flight attendants were put at the bottom because, after all, their airline was the one that went away. I don't think that is really that unreasonable. I wonder what would have happened if the tables had been turned, and TWA had been buying American, and bringing on 10,000 new AA flight attendants. Would the TWA flight attendants have insisted that their new comrades be given seniority from date of hire with American? I highly doubt it.

Finally, while you might think that TWA stands for "Totally Wasted by American," I still think that TWA stands for Trans World Airlines -- for the great, pioneering airline that it once was. Maybe that's just me. But the unfortunate reality is that TWA was on its way out anyway regardless of anything American or any other airline might have done. It was probably not going to make it through the spring of 2001, and would almost certainly have collapsed for good on September 12, 2001, even if it had managed to limp along through the summer of 2001, which was highly doubtful. If anything, American's hundreds of millions prolonged the inevitable for probably 6-8 months, and at least saved a few thousand TWA jobs, all of which would have been completely lost after the terrorist attacks.

Sorry, it's sad, but true.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
The flight attendants were put at the bottom because, after all, their airline was the one that went away. I don't think that is really that unreasonable.

It was actually worse than that. Both the TW pilots and flight attendants had the Allegheny-Mohawk Provisions in their contracts, giving them the option to have their contract integration into any purchaser's workforce decided by a neutral third party if the unions could not agree.

AMR eliminated this provision as part of thir pre-packaged bankruptcy buyout. AA assured the unions it would "use its reasonable best efforts with its labor organizations...to secure a fair and equitable process for the integration of seniority. The TW employees relied on this and did not contest dropping the A-M P. It was a promise AMR knew it could never keep because of its own existing labor agreements.

In the end it really doesn't matter, though. TWA was out of money and time and would have folded anyway and everyone still would not have had a job.
 
airislife
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:45 am

dont forget "Terriost Welcome Aboard" while i loved TWA , Pan Am and TWA did have that distincton or my favoirite "That Wonderful Airline"
 
tothestars
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
First off, I really don't know why you regard the merger as "diasterous." From an operational and logistical standpoint, it was one of the most flawlessly executed mergers in history, with virtually no technology or operational issues. This was no Republic-Northwest, with thousands of bags piled up, flight attendants not knowing which plane to get on, or drink carts not fitting into galleys. This merger was slow and smooth.

Maybe you think it was flawless because the two airlines work groups where never fully integrated. The TWA flight attendants were furloughed before that ever happened. We continued flying our routes with our equipment and AA thier routes and equipment until the last TWA furlough when nAAtive f/a's were transfered to STL to take over our operation (over night.)
I was at the big Texas style bbq in St. Louis to celebrate the combination of "Two Great Airlines, One Great Future," and before the ceremony they pulled up a shiny new TWA 757 while the song "Up Up and Away" was playing...Then the mighty AA 777 pulled nose to nose with it while the music from "The Empire Strikes Back" played in the background, and hoards of AA employees descended from it (no lie.) We at TWA just looked at each other like....oh Lord, we are in trouble now....
Who knows what could have been...but one thing is for sure TWA lives in the hearts of many former employees and passengers and she will never be forgotten.

[Edited 2006-08-04 16:05:09]

[Edited 2006-08-04 16:13:10]
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PHLBOS
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
According to the special Airways magazine tribute to TWA; following the disasterous merger w/AA, many ex-TW employees believe that TWA now stands for Totally Wasted by American.



Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
while you might think that TWA stands for "Totally Wasted by American

Please REREAD my post (especially when you (to your credit) quoted the entire sentence) before making such a statement. The Totally Wasted by American reference was not created by me (for the record, I never worked for TWA and only flew them once when I was 13 back in 1979) but by some ex-TW employees.

If you don't have a copy of it, I would suggest that you (and anyone else who's interested) check out the earlier-referenced Airways Classic Series (volume 2) magazine that covers the history of TWA. Since it's been out for a while, one probably has to either order it or see if it's available at any airline show.

In addition to the fallout from the AA merger, the magazine does indeed mention about the strong likelihood of TW being shut down after 9/11/01 has the merger not taken place (which you mentioned) as well as sharply criticizing TW's management & CEO for not taking more action to turn the airline around during the 1990s.

On the positive, the magazine does cover the highlights of TW including the unveiling of the reverse-color-schemed Wings of Pride MD-80.

This commerative issue is a must have for any TWA fan.
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commavia
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 10):
The TWA flight attendants were furloughed before that ever happened.

The majority of TWA's were kept on until the massive furloughs of about 20,000 employees after 9/11. The final "integration" was on December 2, 2001. A fence was put around STL so that if the TWA FAs stayed there, they would never have to lose seniority, vacation, etc. but if they chose to transfer, they would have a date-of-hire seniority at the new base. This was, in my opinion, fairly generous on AA's part, and was meant to protect the TWA FAs, who in many other circumstances would have just lost everything. Furthermore, had 9/11 not happened, most of TWA's FAs would probably still be working in STL for AA. 9/11 is to blame, and maybe even the APFA, but not AA.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
Please REREAD my post (especially when you (to your credit) quoted the entire sentence) before making such a statement.

PHLBOS, I did read your initial statement. I realize that you were not specifically quoting yourself in saying that, which is why I said that you "might think that TWA stands for "Totally Wasted by American" since you chose to highlight it in your post. However, if you don't feel that way, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Edited 2006-08-04 19:34:41]
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:51 am

i was on one of the fantasy flights for underpriviledged kids that TWA did out of ORF back in the late 1990s as a reporter and one of the F/As said the joke around the airline, due to dropping routes, was that TWA stood for "Teeny Weenie Airline"

i've collected airline schedules since the late 1960s, and one of my favorite pieces is a silvery metallic Transcontinental & Western Air schedule form 1937 showing off sleeper berths in dougas aircraft and promoting themselves as "The Lindbergh Line"

what a shame
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tothestars
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
The majority of TWA's were kept on until the massive furloughs of about 20,000 employees after 9/11. The final "integration" was on December 2, 2001.

If by "integration" you mean, changing uniforms and calling yourself American in your announcements instead of TWA, then we were integrated. To the public we were all American Airlines but I never flew with anyone other than TWA people on TWA equipment. Hmm maybe that's why the "integration" went so smoothly.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
9/11 is to blame, and maybe even the APFA, but not AA.

If that is the excuse that AA continues to use then 9/11 was an event that should constitute a special condition. After 9/11 virtually all other airlines furloughed with unlimited recall rights, pass benifits, and furlough pay and have all recalled thier furloughed flight attendants. AA needs to extend the same rights to us.
There are so many things that AA does well and gets right financially(obviously.) On the human side, it's commitment to the the former TWA flight attendants needs to be one of those things that AA does right.

[Edited 2006-08-04 20:23:34]
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commavia
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 14):
AA needs to extend the same rights to us.

If I'm not mistaken, TWA flight attendants never lost recall rights. They got them for three years after furlough, which I believe is either expired or soon to expire.
 
tothestars
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 15):
Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 14):
AA needs to extend the same rights to us.

If I'm not mistaken, TWA flight attendants never lost recall rights. They got them for three years after furlough, which I believe is either expired or soon to expire.

You dont miss a thing do you...We got a 5 year recall window which will be up in october for some. My point is that other airlines that furloughed as a result of 9/11 gave their furloughed employees UNLIMITED recall rights (that never expire) pass priveliges (that never expire) and furlough pay. APFA will not fight for us and AA will not do the right thing on its on.

http://trustno1-1.blogspot.com/

[Edited 2006-08-04 21:02:18]
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commavia
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 16):
You dont miss a thing do you...We got a 5 year recall window which will be up in october for some. My point is that other airlines that furloughed as a result of 9/11 gave their furloughed employees UNLIMITED recall rights (that never expire) pass priveliges (that never expire) and furlough pay.

Where would TWA flight attendants have been on September 12, 2001 had American not stepped in? They would have had absolutely no recall rights, no pass priveleges, and no pay -- furlough or otherwise -- because the company would have ceased to exist. Again, I'm not in any way saying that what happened to TWA's people is not sad, but honestly, it was inevitable and it is just unfortunate that TWA's wonderful flight attendants (I came in contact with several great ones over the years) were put through the stress of the integration. Realistically, however, they would have lost their jobs anyway. American probably just prolonged it by 5-6 months. And, as I said, had 9/11 not happened, TWA's flight attendants will mostly still be employed at the St. Louis base, protected from losing their seniority and vacation, and at higher payscales than what they had at TWA, and they would have ended up making out quite good in the deal considering theirs was the airline that failed financially.
 
NW727251ADV
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:05 am

I'm sorry but i'm more curious to know...who DIDN'T know that TWA used to stand for "Transcontinental & Western Air"??? This a website for aviation enthusiasts. This topic falls into the category of "Duhhh".
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tothestars
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
Where would TWA flight attendants have been on September 12, 2001 had American not stepped in? They would have had absolutely no recall rights, no pass priveleges, and no pay -- furlough or otherwise -- because the company would have ceased to exist. Again, I'm not in any way saying that what happened to TWA's people is not sad, but honestly, it was inevitable and it is just unfortunate that TWA's wonderful flight attendants (I came in contact with several great ones over the years) were put through the stress of the integration. Realistically, however, they would have lost their jobs anyway. American probably just prolonged it by 5-6 months. And, as I said, had 9/11 not happened, TWA's flight attendants will mostly still be employed at the St. Louis base, protected from losing their seniority and vacation, and at higher payscales than what they had at TWA, and they would have ended up making out quite good in the deal considering theirs was the airline that failed financially.

And that comment has absolutely nothing to do with where we are now. What if's, and your opionions etc belong to you. AA purchaced TWA well before 9/11. If you respond to me at least respond to the content of my post and not your opionion and where you believe we (TWA) would have been today or 2 days after 9/11. The acquisition went through, it happened, and that negates the "where would they have been without us saving them" retoric. My point is how we've been treated since we became one big happy shiny family.

[Edited 2006-08-04 21:11:41]
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isitsafenow
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Asqx (Reply 3):
Trans World Airlines titles didn't become common place until after the 1950 corporate name change.

There was a part in the movie "The Aviator" that took part in the late 40's.

The tech adviser for "The Aviator" blew it with the airport scene with Howie looking at a 1049 connie. The 1049 model wasn't flying until 1952.(I know I know... it was Save a Connie making an appearance).
The sign on the hanger read "TRANS WORLD AIRLINE" along with the banner on the plane.
See the error here?
At that point in time it should have read TRANSCONTINENTAL AND WESTERN.
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falstaff
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:50 am

I have a film that I think is from 1953, called "Letter to a Pilot". It is about a business man writing a letter to a pilot who flew him from KC to NYC asking how an airline works. The Aircraft is a TWA Constellation. The lettering on the plane is Trans World Airline as was the name on several pieces of ground equipment. The pilot then goes on to describe how the man's LA to NYC flight worked and all the facets of TWA. It is a neat film. Anyone else seen it?
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Tan Flyr
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RE: As FYI: TWA Name Had Different Meanings

Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:09 pm

ON A LIGHTER NOTE>>>>>

before Pope John Paul II, when every Pope in recent memory had been Italian, TWA stood for "Toppa Woppa Aboard" whenever a TWA 707/747 took a visiting Pope back to Italy after a US visit.

BTW, I'm Italian..so I did not offend myself!