emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:03 pm

I was checking out HA's website and I noticed they have pretty sparse international destinations. What is the reason for this? Why are there no routes to Japan? The last time I was in Honolulu or even Waikiki there seemed to be more Asians that Hawaiians. Also, what is their service like and how are they doing financially?

Thanks for the responses.
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:07 pm

I agree, it seems odd that Hawaiian or Aloha doesn't serve Japan. I can understand why they don't serve Europe, but Asia is a mystery.

It would seem that Hawaiian has the ability with 767 operations to serve Japan etc. I don't think Aloha and their 737-700s have the range.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:18 pm

Hawaiian has received various rights over the years to fly to Narita but was unable to secure the appropriate slots. Aloha served Taipei/Guam around 1984 with DC-10s (Aloha Pacific) but abandoned it shortly after starting.

HA applied for routes to China, and will again. Aloha will too I think. Both have been rumoured to try HNL-New Zealand also at various times.

I would expect more international routes to Asia from one or both once they get firmly on their financial feet.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
CRGsFuture
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:04 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:34 pm

I think the more important question is why doesn't HA serve the East Coast or Midwest?
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:43 pm

FWIW, Japan Air Lines and Jalways have the Japan-HNL route covered. UA and NW also offer daily HNL departures to KIX and NRT as well. While it'd be great to see HA and AQ offer such service, it'd be pretty difficult as Japanese tourist arrivals are subject to fluctuations that can kill the leisure market. IIRC, 2006 arrivals are something like 8% off of the 2005 numbers. UA does well to NRT because it serves as their Asian hub and connects to a number of other markets to include ICN, HKG, BKK, etc.

I'm also not sure how a HNL-AKL route would do; I believe Air New Zealand just cut their number of weekly flights down due to reduced demand. Would a HNL-HKG route be possible? Currently, only UPS and KittyHawk serve it for cargo...


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
malaysia
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:54 pm

HNL-MNL would probably be a money maker
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 3):
I think the more important question is why doesn't HA serve the East Coast or Midwest?

I don't think there is that much demand for another East Coast to Hawaii flight. Continental already has a daily flight to HNL with the 767-400 and you can connect on United, American, America West, and Delta.

Personally my mind of thought is that the East has the Caribbean and the West has Hawaii and the Pacific islands. Most people on the East coast prefer to travel to the Caribbean rather then to the Pacific and vice versa for the West.
No Vueling No Party
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:16 pm

The answer is simple, they don't have the route authority to fly them. Hawaii isn't very on on the authorities' list during these competitions. Look at the recent China authorities. Then you also have the fact that Hawaii is not a major destination for most Asian countries.

Yes, HA did have the route authority to fly to NRT, but they originally wanted to do it OGG-NRT, but that got dropped when the State dropped the plans to extend the OGG runway 2,000ft due to heavy opposition from Maui residents. They then wanted to fly HNL-NRT, but they couldn't get slots that would allow connections in Hawaii. AA later got the route authority, but they ran into the same slot problem.


Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 3):
I think the more important question is why doesn't HA serve the East Coast or Midwest?

The lack of money and equipment to open routes past the West Coast. The interisland market was a major drag on HA's profitability and limited them to low risk destinations so that they could support their interisland operations. Then they had their bankruptcy that caused them to reject the leases 2 of their 767s on order.

[Edited 2006-08-05 08:20:10]
 
fuffla
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:41 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:27 pm

Would HA ever consider BNE? There are currently no HNL servies and all passengers have to go QF via SYD. It could compete with QF pacific services, a one-stop USA service from BNE.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:26 pm

ANZ flights from AKL to HNL, and VV are running at 4x per week at the moment which is good for them , tho at times through out the year this does drop to 3 per week , the route is flown with 763 aircraft which have just had a mini makeover .
Vietnam time..
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:19 pm

I recently flew CO from EWR-HNL. The flight was on a 767-400 and was full both ways. I agree that for the most part East coasters travel to the Carribean but that doesn't mean a market for NYC, BOS etc to HNL doesn't exist.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 10):
recently flew CO from EWR-HNL. The flight was on a 767-400 and was full both ways. I agree that for the most part East coasters travel to the Carribean but that doesn't mean a market for NYC, BOS etc to HNL doesn't exist.

If that is true, why do you think AA,UA,DL,US, and NW are not flying it?
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:40 pm

There could be multiple reasons why those airlines are not flying the route. Obviously, there could not be enough traffic to support all of them. At EWR, there is enough traffic to support a daily 767-400 on the EWR-HNL route. The 767-400 flight is the only non-stop flight but not the only flight to HNL.

The -HNL routes might not be that great of money makers. It could be that the airlines are focusing on other routes where the profit margins are higher. That doesn't mean there isn't demand for a non-stop route from pax, it just means that there isn't as much of a demand as there is for another route.

My third and last point is the fact that people who run airlines make mistakes. If they were perfect then we would still have the great Pan Am, Braniff and Eastern flying the friendly skies. Airline CEO's are major bean counters and sometimes when all you look at is data printouts, your decisions can be pretty far off the mark.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 12):
Airline CEO's are major bean counters and sometimes when all you look at is data printouts, your decisions can be pretty far off the mark.

Describe a "bean counter" and how you are so sure that airline CEO's fall into that category. Are you suggesting they should not look at financial data for a proposed new route? What criteria would you look at, that you feel they are not looking at?
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 6):
I don't think there is that much demand for another East Coast to Hawaii flight.

The demand is there. Hawaii probably has the best tourism statistics in the world and they are published every month, with an annual report published every year. From the New England area (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island) and Mid-Atlantic (New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania) we have the following numbers for visitors arriving by air:

2004 (latest annual report)
393,982 (New England and Mid-Atlantic MMAs)
1,756,940 (total Domestic U.S. East MMA)
22.4% of Domestic U.S. East MMA

2005 (preliminary)
417,444

2006 (preliminary)
196,025 (Jan-Jun)

http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/visitor-stats

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
If that is true, why do you think AA,UA,DL,US, and NW are not flying it?

AA, UA, DL, and NW all route those pax through their hubs or West Coast cities since they don't have hubs in the NYC/BOS area. Only CO does and they are routing pax from that area through EWR. US never had a presence in Hawaii until HP started flying here and they would route pax through PHX.
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:10 am

That does seem to be where the majority of the traffice heads.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:17 am

HA used to serve Fukuoka and Sydney (1st time around via Pago Pago)- they sold both these route authorities to Northwest. HA also flew to various Pacific Island destinations with the DC8's- these services were unprofitable and terminated.

The Air New Zealand AKL-HNL 763 service is not doing too well (outside school holiday time) and rumored to soon be replaced with an A320 service via an intermediate stop (Apia,Nadi or Tonga).
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 1):
I agree, it seems odd that Hawaiian or Aloha doesn't serve Japan. I can understand why they don't serve Europe, but Asia is a mystery.



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 2):
Hawaiian has received various rights over the years to fly to Narita but was unable to secure the appropriate slots.

It's not profitable for them to do so. Wasn't then, isn't now. That's the answer.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
If that is true, why do you think AA,UA,DL,US, and NW are not flying it?

UA used to operate BOS-HNL nonstop with a DC-8 years ago. Granted, there were times it had to stop at SFO or LAX for fuel, but it did operate nonstop on several occaisions. This was in the 60's and early '70's.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 12):
Airline CEO's are major bean counters and sometimes when all you look at is data printouts, your decisions can be pretty far off the mark.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Airline CEO's are leaders who essentially herd cats full time, and rely on financial analysts to do cost/benefit analysis on existing routes and forecast revenues for possible expansion.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3693
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 2):
HA applied for routes to China, and will again. Aloha will too I think. Both have been rumoured to try HNL-New Zealand also at various times.



Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):

I'm also not sure how a HNL-AKL route would do; I believe Air New Zealand just cut their number of weekly flights down due to reduced demand.



Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 9):
ANZ flights from AKL to HNL, and VV are running at 4x per week at the moment which is good for them , tho at times through out the year this does drop to 3 per week , the route is flown with 763 aircraft which have just had a mini makeover .



Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 16):
The Air New Zealand AKL-HNL 763 service is not doing too well (outside school holiday time) and rumored to soon be replaced with an A320 service via an intermediate stop (Apia,Nadi or Tonga).

The main problem with the AKL-HNL route is that it is a relatively long flight (9 hours) for New Zealanders to go visit a tropical island when there are so many other tropical islands that are only 3-4 hours flight time away (Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Rarotonga, Vanuatu, French Polynesia etc) that are also much cheaper to stay at. As Hawaii is a pretty damn nice place to live and many people live there purely for the lifestyle there is also not much demand from Hawaiians to fly to New Zealand (which is also a lifestyle country albeit colder than Hawaii). The upgraded 763 aircraft should help this route out somewhat by making it more pleasant for the passengers, but I too see it changing to an A320 service via the Islands... most likely APW in Samoa. This service could actually be a daily service to HNL which may lead to increased useage whilst being more economic for NZ.  Smile
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
SoonerLT
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:01 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 3):
I think the more important question is why doesn't HA serve the East Coast or Midwest?

Is it also possible that the investment in long range aircraft wouldn't be worth it? I'm thinking they'd have to buy a brand new aircraft type such as a 777 (don't think the 767s they already have could make the trip to the East coast could they?), training new mx and crew to work on them, as well as on-station service for each destination. This would be a big investment for what...maybe 7-8 new aircraft to cover routes to places like EWR, ATL, ORD, or DFW (figuring 2 aircraft per destination, 1x a day flights)?

Of course, as already stated, airlines like DL, AA, UA, and CO already serve HNL from the Midwest and East Coast. I don't think the demand for that level of capacity would be there, although that could bring down fares and then you allow ever Joe and his family who ever wanted to go to Hawaii to finally do it, increasing demand through an increase in supply. That seems antithetical to economic law though  Smile
Speak Lord, for Thy servant heareth.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting SoonerLT (Reply 19):
don't think the 767s they already have could make the trip to the East coast could they?

Yes they can. The only ones that can't are the four ex-DL non-ER 767-300s coming online later this year. The current 767-300ERs could do it. Delta has used their 767-300ERs on the ATL-HNL flight in the past.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting SoonerLT (Reply 19):
This would be a big investment for what...maybe 7-8 new aircraft to cover routes to places like EWR, ATL, ORD, or DFW (figuring 2 aircraft per destination, 1x a day flights)?

Well I wouldn't expect them to fly any of those routes since they are all served. Current cities without non-stop service include JFK, BOS, YYZ, DTW...

Also, each route would require only one aircraft, not 2. DL and CO use only one aircraft for their daily roundtrips from ATL and EWR.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
str8fromthe808
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:04 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 21):
Well I wouldn't expect them to fly any of those routes since they are all served. Current cities without non-stop service include JFK, BOS, YYZ, DTW...

back when i was in college the marketing director from HA came to speak in one of our marketing classes...she had mentioned that JFK was almost certain until 9/11 happened....
it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness...chinese proverb
 
HAL
Posts: 1741
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Str8fromthe808 (Reply 22):
back when i was in college the marketing director from HA came to speak in one of our marketing classes

This is the same woman who told those of us who work for HA that advertising on the mainland was too expensive, so we should talk up the airline with our mainland friends. Or in other words, use the "coconut wireless" to save the company money.   

When anyone challenged her, her only response was "But I have a degree in marketing, and you don't."

And that is why people have hardly heard of Hawaiian, even at places we go to.

I love this company, and the people who work here. However it does need to step into the 21st century and run like a real airline.

HAL

[Edited 2006-08-07 02:53:31]
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:19 am

HA could probably get authority to some destinations in Asia like NGO, KIX, FUK, (NW dropped it), TPE and MNL. But I doubt they will be that profitable. Japan is all about package tours at dirt cheap prices. JTB has a package from NGO on CO staying on Waikiki for 5 days right now for around than $800. That is hotel, airfare and probably some kind of amentities (passes for public transport, coupons for some restaurant...). But if you buy only airfare from NGO to HNL, it will cost you $800 or more. Airlines just don't make a lot of cash on the leisure routes. But that does not mean HA couldn't do the routes. Unfortunately NRT is now out for them until new slots open in 2008, but most of those will go to Middle Eastern, Japanese and major international carriers offering mainline routes.

Luckily there are enough second and third generation Japanese, Chinese and Filipinos living in Hawaii that are still close to relatives in their "old country" to make the trips a little more worth while. They pay for airfare and not for the package.

Here at NGO CO and JL offer flight to HNL and they are doing well. If we had another carrier, someone would have to pull out.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4885
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:36 am

An HA service to AKL would be able to connect to the mainland which I think would be good offering a few more connections than NZ do with UA.

I was flying DUD-CHC yesterday and was sitting next to a guy who was going to HNL to surf, and he commented how it was good that NZ now offer an overnight flight, which funnily enough started just yesterday. This though gives him a whole extra day and then they still have the overnight return on some flights which works well to.

I agree though it may not be to long before NZ make HNL via the Islands

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
This service could actually be a daily service to HNL which may lead to increased useage whilst being more economic for NZ. Smile

They might do it daily but I think maybe flights via RAR 2 weekly, APW 3 weekly and NAN 2 weekly to offer something different while giving these Islands non stop flights to HNL, yes FJ serves NAN-HNL but some competition would be nice. Main problem is that the A320 carries very little freight.
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 25):
I was flying DUD-CHC yesterday and was sitting next to a guy who was going to HNL to surf, and he commented how it was good that NZ now offer an overnight flight, which funnily enough started just yesterday.

So that's why NZ was in HNL during the day. I thought their flight was delayed.
 
flamedude707
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:41 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting EmSeeEye (Thread starter):
Also, what is their service like

HA has great service. I flew them on SJC-HNL-KONA in December and it was a treat. The crew was friendly and I actually got free lunch. Forgot if it was any good.... but, I would choose to fly them any day. Also, I believe they won some award last year for best American Carrier or something like that.
Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted.
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:12 pm

Hawaiian Airlines should try to serve MEX twice a week. Going to LAX or SFO is too much for Mexican travelers.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
socal
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:20 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:33 pm

Hawaiian's main routes are west coast, I think they do fine as they are doing. If Hawaiian expands, I think they will see alot of problems. I think Hawaiian's goal is to get people to Honolulu, Hawaii as quick as possible, with no long range flights. They do very well like this.
I Love HNL.............
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:39 pm

Maybe if HA had the planes they could try to connect Asia to South America via Hawaii.

You know Japanese business man doing some trade in South American can take a small Hawaiian vacation on the way out and back.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3693
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 25):
Main problem is that the A320 carries very little freight

compared to 763 sure... compared to 737 the A320 carries more.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
markabcan
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:35 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:07 pm

I always thought that ANC would be an interesting and profitable route for a Hawaiian carrier
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 32):
I always thought that ANC would be an interesting and profitable route for a Hawaiian carrier

Hawaiian flies to ANC...they are charters, but they've been doing it for years.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:23 pm

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 32):
I always thought that ANC would be an interesting and profitable route for a Hawaiian carrier

IIRC, so does NW (seasonally). I don't see why HA couldn't continue on its theme of vacation-related charters from select mainland cities. Its best chance would probably be to develop a niche market based on its well deserved reputation for good service. I don't see why they couldn't try a weekly run from HNL to STL, IND, MKE, AUS or MEM. Most don't sound appealing at first but I'd be willing to bet there'd be a decent vacation charter crowd between Nov-Feb. Trying to compete with UA, AA, CO, DL or NW from their hubs would be pointless. Similarly, it appears as if the Pacific markets are somewhat tapped out. I'd still love to see a HNL-HKG flight!

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 28):
Hawaiian Airlines should try to serve MEX twice a week



Do you have numbers to justify service from MEX to Hawaii twice a week. The travel between these points would appear to be minimal.
 
DC10Forever
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 30):
You know Japanese business man doing some trade in South American can take a small Hawaiian vacation on the way out and back.

I work a lot with Japanese companies and business man and I have never seen a Japanese business man going out on vacation ... But would be nice to see some GRU-HNL flights. I went to Hawaii last September and had to fly GRU-DFW-HNL to go and OGG-ORD-MIA-GRU to came back. That´s a pretty long journey.
Better one flying than two grounded
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting DC10Forever (Reply 36):
I work a lot with Japanese companies and business man and I have never seen a Japanese business man going out on vacation ... But would be nice to see some GRU-HNL flights. I went to Hawaii last September and had to fly GRU-DFW-HNL to go and OGG-ORD-MIA-GRU to came back. That´s a pretty long journey.

I'm not sure there'd be much of a demand to justify nonstops to Mexico and/or South America. According to the Circle Mapper, HNL-GRU runs about 8,100 miles!


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
alanCHS
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:19 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:03 am

Because Government Leaders in small island nations demand they leave?
formerly N408BN, N757AT, Soupthansa, ARCJET
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 35):
Do you have numbers to justify service from MEX to Hawaii twice a week. The travel between these points would appear to be minimal.

Actually, HNL-MEX flights have been very seriously looked at here as there is a growing population of Mexicans here in Hawaii and especially in Maui. Not to mention a city of 20,000,000 people with a growing middle class and certainly in reach of HA's 767300ERs. I've been told by higher ups that it would not be feasible due to the altitude of Mexico City's airport. Flights to Hawaii would be greatly weight restricted.

Quoting DC10Forever (Reply 36):
. But would be nice to see some GRU-HNL flights. I went to Hawaii last September and had to fly GRU-DFW-HNL to go and OGG-ORD-MIA-GRU to came back. That´s a pretty long journey.

It's a VERY long journey, I make the trip several times per year! HNL-GRU/GIG would be my dream route!!

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3223
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:40 am

How about MEL and/or AKL to HNL via PPG?

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting AlanCHS (Reply 38):
Because Government Leaders in small island nations demand they leave?

 rotfl 

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 40):
How about MEL and/or AKL to HNL via PPG?

Sounds good to me although we have already tried AKL-PPG-HNL with the DC-8's without much success. Perhaps the 767 would be better suited for this route.

I believe HA will be starting HNL-APW-HNL service before the end of the year. It will be a code-share with Polynesian Blue. It was apparently already announced in Apia, but hasn't been made official yet here in HNL. I think the announcement of APW service will be imminent.

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3223
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 41):
I believe HA will be starting HNL-APW-HNL service before the end of the year. It will be a code-share with Polynesian Blue. It was apparently already announced in Apia, but hasn't been made official yet here in HNL. I think the announcement of APW service will be imminent.

Wow, brilliant! Using whose metal do you know? The containerised freight capacity on the 736 is preferable over that of the "loose" 738.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 5):
HNL-MNL would probably be a money maker

This could be, but PR serves this market daily.

Also the US and Philippines don't have an agreement with regards to open skies. I believe there's a limit which airlines are allowed and from what route in the Philippines.

The Philippine government wants PR to be able to have 5th freedom rights in the US, which ofcourse the US doesn't allow.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 35):
Do you have numbers to justify service from MEX to Hawaii twice a week. The travel between these points would appear to be minimal.

I used to live in the Laie back in the 80's and it was usual to see Mexican tourists down there every day.

Now I live in Mexico City and one of the top sellers at travel agencies is HAWAII.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
Alohajock
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:39 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:51 pm

I would love to see HA explore flights to Mexico. We share a similar climate, so we are well adjusted to seasons and dress requirements.

Maybe HA can terminate/reduce service to American Samoa (since the Gov wants HA out), and better utilize the spare A/Cs to explore the Hispanic market.

One flight a week, just to see how service takes-off....HA presently flys to Papeete, Tahiti (PPT) only on Saturdays.

Aloha,
 
B6FA4ever
Posts: 747
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:49 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:09 pm

since people are speaking of Mexico...i remember a long time ago (probly around late 80's/early 90's) seeing a DC-10 Mexicana (the kine w/ gold cheatline, white fusalage, and black nose tip) in HNL. did MX actually serve HNL? was it a stopping point if they continued onto Asia or Australia area?

it would be great to see HA fly more int'l destinations! one of THE best airlines i've flown on! also one of the best color schemes! Aloha, A Hui Hou

~B6FA4ever
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 42):
Wow, brilliant! Using whose metal do you know?

It's supposed to be a codeshare using Polynesian Blue planes.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 43):
This could be, but PR serves this market daily.

PR only flies HNL-MNL 3x weekly, Tues, Thurs, Sat. More pax probably go through NRT on JAL than on PR.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 47):
PR only flies HNL-MNL 3x weekly, Tues, Thurs, Sat. More pax probably go through NRT on JAL than on PR.

I would bet that more pax fly on NW between HNL-MNL than on JAL.
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines - Why So Few Intl Routes?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:07 am

From a domestic standpoint what would be the best destinations for HA?