bucks918
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Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:07 am

A woman died on my flight today, and we diverted to Pittsburgh. Wonder if anyone heard about this on the news?
 
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falstaff
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:09 am

What did they say in the announcement about the reason for being diverted?
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bucks918
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:11 am

First they asked if there were medical professionals on board. There was commotion in the back galley. Then the pilots bat turned and dove into PIT. We disembarked, waited an hour, and they made the announcement that the woman passed away. We got underway an hour later, and they said they would make arrangements for anyone uncomfortable about going back on the plane.
 
bucks918
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:34 am

I thought it would be big news, but I can't find it anywhere. Does this happen more often than I think.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...8/history/20060805/1501Z/KBWI/KCMH
 
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falstaff
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:38 am

There was a rather long thread about this not very long ago, it was rather interesting. I guess it happens periodically. I have never been on a plane where anybody died and neither has anyone I know. Would make a good story to tell my friends though.
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Bucks918 (Reply 3):
I thought it would be big news, but I can't find it anywhere. Does this happen more often than I think.

Well, people passing away every day isn't big news.. I'd imagine that it wouldn't be big news for an airplane either.. Planes divert every day.. and people are going to die on flights, probably more frequently than we are aware.

Unfortunate for the lady..

Sorry you had to be involved in it!

1011yyz
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CentPIT
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 5):
Well, people passing away every day isn't big news.. I'd imagine that it wouldn't be big news for an airplane either.. Planes divert every day.. and people are going to die on flights, probably more frequently than we are aware.

While this is true, it is quite sad. I feel bad for everyone on board, I don't think I wouldn't have been able to continue on for a few more hours!

EDIT:

Nothing is being reported on www.wpxi.com or WPXI TV PITTSBURGH

[Edited 2006-08-05 22:52:41]
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
bucks918
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:48 am

Yeah it was sad....by the way, 737's can descend pretty fast!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:12 am

I've had a medical emergency in a flight as well. . dunno if the woman passed away, but when they carried her to the back of the plane she was unconscious. It was on a DL 764 ATL-MIA. Once we landed, at MIA as we were almost there anyway, with declared emergency landing, priority and all, we pulled up to the gate but remained onboard for another 20 minutes or so until the paramedics arrived, only then to deplane before the poor woman. . . I still wonder how she ended up. . .

Cheers

[Edited 2006-08-05 23:19:58]
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dc10s4ever
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:15 am

Technically no one ever dies on the aircraft. They are pronouced dead once taken off the airplane. If they are pronounced dead on board, the airplane has to be taken out of service.
 
EI787
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
If they are pronounced dead on board, the airplane has to be taken out of service.

Why would that be?
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
Technically no one ever dies on the aircraft. They are pronouced dead once taken off the airplane. If they are pronounced dead on board, the airplane has to be taken out of service.

This probably is correct, as I have seen an a/c taken out of service due to a passenger death in-flight (naturally, not related to the a/c of course!).

Can somebody be pronounced dead by a medical professional onboard who is authorized to do so?
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jdwfloyd
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:55 am

When I worked in OPS in PIT we stressed to every Capt that had a medical issue on board that if the worst were to happen to not have anyone declare the person dead. We always said that nobody dies on airplanes. They only die on jetways, catering trucks or emergency vehicals. If a medical doctor or somebody declares the person dead while they are still on the A/C then the A/C becomes part of any investigation relating to the death. This could and has grounded A/C for a number of days until it is released.
 
iluv727s
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:45 am

Do the "medical professionals" get any accommodation for their services? Being a medical professional, I'd provide any assistance I was capable of providing in an airborne A/C regardless... I was just curious if they get another bag of peanuts or a WHOLE can of coke?
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David L
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
If they are pronounced dead on board, the airplane has to be taken out of service.

Pending investigation, presumably, not permanently - assuming it's correct.
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting David L (Reply 14):
Pending investigation, presumably, not permanently - assuming it's correct.

If I remember correctly the aircraft is out of service for 2-3 days. That could easily cost millions in lost revenue.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:12 am

IIRC it is mostly out of service to make sure nothing aboard the aircraft, or the ventilation system, caused the death. Even though the deceased is 99 years old and has a bad ticker. If they pass they still have to rule out the airplane causing the death. No airline wants that and the subsequent possibility of a lawsuit parade. Therefore, nobody dies on board.
 
Clipper002
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:17 am

Can anyone site which FAR this pertains to?

Rgds,
Ed
Ed
 
3201
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Iluv727s (Reply 13):
Do the "medical professionals" get any accommodation for their services? Being a medical professional, I'd provide any assistance I was capable of providing in an airborne A/C regardless... I was just curious if they get another bag of peanuts or a WHOLE can of coke?

From what I've heard, usually offered a handful of free booze miniatures "to go," another handful of drink coupons, and always a personal letter of thanks from someone at the airline a couple weeks later.

I know a physician who has been called at least 2 or 3 times, and always advised continuing to the planned destination. As a passenger, they usually want to get where they're headed on-time too.  Smile Now that they all have Medlink, I'm guessing the divert percentage is higher.

On the other side of that, my grandfather died (unofficially, of course!) in his seat before departure, on his way to visit us, delaying the flight by a couple of hours (which I only know because we called to see the on-time status a few minutes before we got the call that he'd died, I think they actually waited until he was at the hospital to call it -- remember that the paramdedics/EMTs don't want anyone to die in their ambulance either, hospitals have staffs of people to do all the paperwork).
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atrude777
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:28 am

Hmmh interesting..I was at BWI this morning, boarding a BWI-SDF-STL flight and saw another -300 heading to CMH, I wonder if that was the plane that had the woman that died on board. Sorry i missed you at BWI though! Silly

Alex

[Edited 2006-08-06 02:30:21]
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OPNLguy
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 15):
If I remember correctly the aircraft is out of service for 2-3 days. That could easily cost millions in lost revenue.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade here, but the aircraft in question was on the ground at PIT for a couple of hours (2:13), and then resumed its scheduled line of flying, obviously a tad on the tardy side..
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TVNWZ
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:45 am

OPNLguy, was she pronounced dead on the plane?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:46 am

Not at liberty to say...
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bucks918
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:08 am

We were at gate a4 at BWI...-300 aircraft left around 11am.
 
undehoulli
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 17):
Can anyone site which FAR this pertains to?

I think it might have something to do with NTSB 830.

An aircraft accident is defined in 830.2 as "an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage".

How nice that the FAR/AIM was sitting on my coffee table!!! As a sidenote, a manual at an airline I worked for stated that a person could not be declared dead in flight, even by a person medically-qualified to do so.
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dc10s4ever
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 17):
Can anyone site which FAR this pertains to?

I actually also think it is a health department issue
 
atrude777
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Bucks918 (Reply 25):
We were at gate a4 at BWI...-300 aircraft left around 11am.

I walked by A-4 at around 10:15am maybe a bit less.

Funny...I hate when I miss A.netters!

Alex
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bucks918
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:28 am

We must have come over the surrounding town to PIT airport at about 400kts at about 2000 feet before the pilot cut the speed and we bat turned into the north/south runway at PIT
 
ADXMatt
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting 3201 (Reply 18):
Now that they all have Medlink, I'm guessing the divert percentage is higher.

Actually the number of diversions since medlink is lower....
That is why many airlines subscribe to their services and pay those fees. It is cheaper then an uneccessry diversion. Plus with the new enhanced med kits the pax can usually get treated pretty well at fl340.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting Bucks918 (Reply 30):
We must have come over the surrounding town to PIT airport at about 400kts at about 2000 feet before the pilot cut the speed and we bat turned into the north/south runway at PIT

PIT has a NW-SE oriented runway (14-32) and three parallels oriented E-W (10L/C/R and 28R/C/L).

I know your flight was expediting, but 400 kts seems a bit much....
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David L
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 15):
If I remember correctly the aircraft is out of service for 2-3 days. That could easily cost millions in lost revenue.

Of course but I was just being more specific. I was just making the point that the aircraft isn't taken out of service for good (depending on the cause of death, of course).  

[Edited 2006-08-06 04:14:38]
 
Markhkg
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Midway2airtran (Reply 11):
This probably is correct, as I have seen an a/c taken out of service due to a passenger death in-flight (naturally, not related to the a/c of course!).

I believe that an opened Enhanced Medical Kit or Doctor's Kit is a "no go" item.

Quoting Iluv727s (Reply 13):
Being a medical professional, I'd provide any assistance I was capable of providing in an airborne A/C regardless

You should expect no compensation whatsoever unless you want to open yourself up to liability. Although some carriers may choose to say "thank you", others may choose not to avoid any sort of legal issue. The "Good Samaritan" law of the skies in the United States notes,

"An individual shall not be liable for damages in any action brought in a Federal or State court arising out of the acts or omissions of the individual in providing or attempting to provide assistance in the case of an in-flight medical emergency."

Providing voluntary assistance with no expectation of compensation is very different to providing medical care with the expectation of being paid.

A fascinating read is from a 1998 BMJ article when a psychiatrist DEMANDED payment for his services after rending inflight medical care (which really only involved giving the patient oxygen). This was despite recieving a bottle of champange and a voucher as a thank you.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/317/7160/701
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CentPIT
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 32):
I know your flight was expediting, but 400 kts seems a bit much....

haha yeah, unrealistic! I think PIT was using 28R and 32 today. 28L and 28C are used only as needed on most days that 32 is in use. If 28L and 28R are being used as main approaches, then 32 is not used.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 35):
I believe that an opened Enhanced Medical Kit or Doctor's Kit is a "no go" item.

Not for merely being opened, it's not. The MEL refers you to an appendix in Part 121 that lists the minimum contents required.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bucks918
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:55 am

definately landed on 34 or 33 whatever it is
 
steeler83
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 36):
28L and 28C are used only as needed on most days

That "C" runway in the middle there, If I am taking off going towards where the old terminal was, is that 10C or 28C? The last time I took off from PIT there, it was on the C runway going East. I came back to PIT on runway 32 4 days later.

Anyway, that is supremely sad what happened to that woman. I can't believe that the plane diverted to PIT. PIT saw one extra bird than usual, but this is shocking and sad. My condolences to her famiily and the pax... Sad
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SlimChance
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:42 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
Technically no one ever dies on the aircraft. They are pronouced dead once taken off the airplane.

Technically, people die where they die. The place where someone checks a pulse and counts to zero doesn't matter much to the deceased.
 
Markhkg
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting SlimChance (Reply 36):
Technically, people die where they die. The place where someone checks a pulse and counts to zero doesn't matter much to the deceased.

Medico-legally, however, people die when they are pronounced dead by a physician (or by physician proxy).
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USPIT10L
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Bucks918 (Reply 34):
definately landed on 34 or 33 whatever it is

Yep, that would be 32, the primary "south" runway. All our DL terminators landed there after about 10p. Took about five minutes for it to taxi from the runway.
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MattMSP767
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting SlimChance (Reply 36):
Technically, people die where they die. The place where someone checks a pulse and counts to zero doesn't matter much to the deceased.

Nicely said. When someone is dead, they are dead...bottom line.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 39):
Nicely said. When someone is dead, they are dead...bottom line.

Not in the eyes of the law. Where they are pronounced dead is more important then where took there last breath. To the government you are not dead until there is a piece of paper saying that you are dead.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 35):
Anyway, that is supremely sad what happened to that woman.

It truly is...

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 35):
I can't believe that the plane diverted to PIT.

Can I ask why you find this unbelievable?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Analog
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 12):
When I worked in OPS in PIT we stressed to every Capt that had a medical issue on board that if the worst were to happen to not have anyone declare the person dead. We always said that nobody dies on airplanes. They only die on jetways, catering trucks or emergency vehicals. If a medical doctor or somebody declares the person dead while they are still on the A/C then the A/C becomes part of any investigation relating to the death. This could and has grounded A/C for a number of days until it is released.

Is it really the official policy of OPS in PIT to have pilots fudge the official record/impede the government "investigation" into a person's death by asking any doctors on board not declare people dead until it's financially more suitable for the airline?

Understandably this is done to avoid an absurd consequence (grounding of the aircraft), but it's done specifically to impede the government/law enforcement investigation. Additionally, you do it to prevent airline XX's aircraft from being investigated as a contributing factor to the person's death. How would that sound to a jury?

While perfectly understandable, and something that I would possibly (probably) do myself, this sounds like something that's potentially criminal under local/state laws, not FARs (note that IANAL). Is it? [Seriously]

What an odd first post.
 
Aviacentre
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:45 pm

As reported by the Pittsbrurgh Tribune-Review:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...trib/news/cityregion/s_464950.html

The brief article doesn't cite anything that hasn't been mentioned here already, but I thought I'd just point it out for anyone's interest.
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AlexPorter
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:54 pm

I'm surprised the flight diverted to PIT when CMH isn't much farther from where they were. By the way according to Flight Aware the flight was going 359 kts groundspeed at 7500 feet and slowed pretty quickly at the end of the flight.
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lredlefsen
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 12):
When I worked in OPS in PIT, ... we always said that nobody dies on airplanes. They only die on jetways, catering trucks or emergency vehicals.

Uhhh.... sounds like "obstruction of justice" to me. (Or "opportunity knocking", if you're "Sammy the Bull" or company... "Can I buy you an Arsenic Margarita?")
 
brdcessna
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:16 pm

My sympothies to the family,

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 44):
Flight Aware the flight was going 359 kts groundspeed at 7500 feet and slowed pretty quickly at the end of the flight

Quite impressive I must say.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:45 pm

Quoting Midway2airtran (Reply 11):

Can somebody be pronounced dead by a medical professional onboard who is authorized to do so?

depending on the circumstances, yes, they can. For purposes of technicalities however, it's a pain in the ass for everyone involved.

Quoting Iluv727s (Reply 13):
Do the "medical professionals" get any accommodation for their services? Being a medical professional, I'd provide any assistance I was capable of providing in an airborne A/C regardless... I was just curious if they get another bag of peanuts or a WHOLE can of coke?

Compensation would be dangerous for both you and the airline. If you got anything, I'd take it as a gesture of courtesy and thankfulness from the crew, rather than compensation - from a legal standpoint at least. Certainly however, they are under no legal obligation to give you anything.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 15):

If I remember correctly the aircraft is out of service for 2-3 days. That could easily cost millions in lost revenue.

Millions? 2-3 days is probably not "millions" unless it's a large widebody. A 737-300 does not generate "millions" in revenues in 2 days. All the same, just about every airline has backup aircraft they could slip right in to take the place - no significant loss in rev.
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Flyatrs
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:40 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 47):
Millions? 2-3 days is probably not "millions" unless it's a large widebody. A 737-300 does not generate "millions" in revenues in 2 days. All the same, just about every airline has backup aircraft they could slip right in to take the place - no significant loss in rev.

A grounded B737 costs an average USD 20 000 per day.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Woman Died On My Flight Today SWA BWI-CMH

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:48 pm

Quoting EI787 (Reply 10):
Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
If they are pronounced dead on board, the airplane has to be taken out of service.


Why would that be?

i seem to recall from the College Level inflight services class i took donkey's years ago, it's because if someone dies on an airplane, until the powers that be can determine how they died, which can take several days, that aircraft is actually considered to be a crime scene, and can't be used until it's released from such status by the local authorities.
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