boeingforever
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Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:04 am

could this ever work..its a great way to save fuel..

after pushback from the gate, the tug doesnt disconnect from the plane. instead, it pulls the plane all the way to the runway. once they get cleared, the tug disconnects, the aircraft starts its engines, and off she goes. this can save tons of fuel..especially when there are delays and backups on taxiways.

furthermore, the tugs can have apu's(auxiliary power unites) so that you can operate all the aircraft systems(lights, ac, avionics etc.) while taxiing.

even though the tug burns fuel too,,its not nearly as much fuel as a jet burns taxiing to the active..

whaddya think??
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:11 am

Thought about this in this thread.
Best Airport Design (by RichPhitzwell Jul 31 2006 in Aviation Polls & Prefs)

I wonder, is it possible to have an ac turn off a runway and have a device like a car wash, bring it to the gate then back to appropriate runway eliminating taxiway/runway incursions?
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
SAS333
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:16 am

Actually Delta is trying to save some fuel, by operating only one engine till the runway is reached.
The same after landing, one engine will be switched off immediately.

But just in general, I had also an experience with UA, when we had bad weather-conditiones, and ORD was closed for a couple of minutes. Our A-320 Crew switched off the engines completely for the remaining time on the taxiway.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:41 am

Well, I'd think this would be logistically a nightmare. Imagine 40 aircraft waiting in line at ORD for take-off; 40 tugs, also idling taking up additional space between aircraft. When they reach the runway and detach, then there has to be extra roadways etc. so the tugs could return to the gate. Add the expense of the extra tugs, time lost as everything is now slowed way down, and extra staff to accomplish this, and the current system probably works much easier and cost effective.
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:44 am

Tugs can simply stay put until next plane...if they were automated or enough traffic justifies the labor staying put.
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
bohica
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:10 am

It would require too much manpower and ground equipment. This would take workers away from turning other flights and there might not be enough tugs available to push the next flights on time.
 
N231YE
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting SAS333 (Reply 2):
Actually Delta is trying to save some fuel, by operating only one engine till the runway is reached.
The same after landing, one engine will be switched off immediately.

Many airlines besides DL are doing this, including CO, CO Connection, Expressjet, and WN. But you are true, taxiing on one engine does save fuel.
 
centrair
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:08 pm

And if the tugs are hybrid or alternate fuel then it would be even better. Make it so that when at idle, it shuts off and can be turned on quickly. Kind of like they buses being used in Japan.

Or better yet. Build in a tug into the taxiway system like a conveyor belt. Before entering the runway, it disattaches and goes into the ground to circulate to the needed place.

That would be a technical nightmare though.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:16 pm

But.... We all know that these tugs eat fuel like crazy too. The costs associated with towing a plane to the runway could be high. Imagine having to tow a plane from one end of the airport to the other end? Then the costs of maintenance on them would be high too. Then if you have a breakdown, it would be a mess in itself, causing a possible delay.

I love the idea though, but I could not see it being much of a cost saver. Then you got all these subcontractors now. Imagine Menzies towing Alaska planes to the runway? It would be a disaster!!!! It is scary enough to watch them push airplanes back 25 yards as it is.

Just my penny to add.  Smile
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
siromega
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting SAS333 (Reply 2):

But just in general, I had also an experience with UA, when we had bad weather-conditiones, and ORD was closed for a couple of minutes. Our A-320 Crew switched off the engines completely for the remaining time on the taxiway.

I had the same situation with AA at ORD with some bad weather two months ago. We sat on taxiway Y (I think) near the maintenence hangars for a good 45 minutes until we were cleared for t/o. The Pilot had turned both engines off and we just ran on APU power.
 
MATURRO727
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:45 pm

hey.

i love the idea but as you guys said it would be a pain in the ass the technical, ground personal, maintenance, fuel etc.

and also is it safe to start the engines and 1 minute later apply full power ??


Just my two cents.

Regards

MATURRO727
 
boeingforever
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
But.... We all know that these tugs eat fuel like crazy too. The costs associated with towing a plane to the runway could be high. Imagine having to tow a plane from one end of the airport to the other end?

are you kidding...a 747 burns more fuel getting to the runway, than your car will burn in 4 years..those tugs burn nothing compared to jet engines..especially jet engines having to push aircraft at max gross!

Quoting Bohica (Reply 5):
It would require too much manpower and ground equipment

still wayyy cheaper than fuel..especially with the price per barrel heading towards 100$

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):

i dont see why..just tugs dropping the plane at runway and driving back to get another
 
flyabunch
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:52 pm

There would still have to be a very large amount of auxillary power for the air conditioning systems. The tug would either have to have a huge engine/generator or the APU would have to be running. I think in combination with the concerns that others have raised about traffic, number of tugs, personnel, etc. that these factors in total make the running of one engine the best alternative.

Mike
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:21 pm

So, what about an automated system? would this not negate misunderstandings and reduce mishaps on the taxiway?
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
kaitak744
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:25 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):
Imagine 40 aircraft waiting in line at ORD for take-off; 40 tugs, also idling taking up additional space between aircraft. When they reach the runway and detach, then there has to be extra roadways etc. so the tugs could return to the gate. Add the expense of the extra tugs,

Have you seen the height of tugs? They usually fit under the nose of the aircraft, even the ones with the tow bars.

http://airliners.net/open.file/0473520/L/
http://airliners.net/open.file/0474436/L/

And unless it's a 737, A320, or Md-80, the tug can just pass beneath the wing, so you don't need any additional roads. Not to mention, that almost all major airports already have service roads interlocking the entire airfield.

And the tugs do use up way less fuel than when aircraft are taxiing. I guess the only downside to this idea is that airlines would have to purchase additional tugs. But I guess when fuel prices get even higher, this will be justifiable.

By the way, what happen to Boeing testing a nose-wheel taxi motor on an AC 767? Wasn't that supposed to happen a few months ago? Does any one know how it went?
 
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fxramper
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:55 pm

Quoting SAS333 (Reply 2):
Actually Delta is trying to save some fuel, by operating only one engine till the runway is reached.

Majority of airlines employ this method already. This is why you hear a rev up on the engine and rapid deceleration on it prior to take-off.

Airlines don't use power backs anymore. This is a 60% savings in fuel alone prior to departure.

Source: FX mechanic at AUS.

[Edited 2006-08-07 09:23:19]
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:19 pm

I couldn't believe how many powerbacks I saw NW DC9s doing at MSP last month. It would be great to think of new, inovative ways to save fuel. I do agree with the other posters that it's a good idea to taxi on one engine. It must add up over time.
 
nosedive
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:05 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
And unless it's a 737, A320, or Md-80, the tug can just pass beneath the wing, so you don't need any additional roads. Not to mention, that almost all major airports already have service roads interlocking the entire airfield.

Yes, lets complicate the hell out of airport ops  sarcastic 

Tell me, what reason do you want a tug right up next to an active runway? To increase runway incursions? To see a tug get into a GE-90?

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 13):
So, what about an automated system?

Why is it when I hear automated and airport in the same sentence I think of bags being chewed up at DEN?





If it's not broke, the airlines will sure as hell try to break it!
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:14 pm

One thing that hasn't been brought up it the fact modern day turbofans just can't be started and taken off. There is a warming up period that needs to taken into consideration prior to takeoff.

Having a tug pull the aircraft to the number one position and then start might not be practical in light of any warmup that needs to be done. Another down side would be any MEL issues that occur. The entire MEL concept assumes starting after pushback. That wouldn't happen, now we have a situation where a MEL item occurs out at the number one position, you have to be towed to another location and the entire flow is disrupted.

Personally I'd rather see a system where you taxi to a point after landing, shutdown (after waiting the required amount of time) and shut down. Now we can be tugged to our parking spot.
Fly fast, live slow
 
cobra27
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 13):
So, what about an automated system? would this not negate misunderstandings and reduce mishaps on the taxiway?

I think that would work too. Especially at airport like Atlanta.
My idead is to put something like a catapult rail on carriers on the taxiway that would tow the plane till the runway.

2. question: Doesn't jet engine need to run a few minutes before the turbine reaches working temperature?
 
Amazonphil
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 10):
i love the idea but as you guys said it would be a pain in the ass the technical, ground personal, maintenance, fuel etc.

and also is it safe to start the engines and 1 minute later apply full power ??



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 18):
One thing that hasn't been brought up it the fact modern day turbofans just can't be started and taken off. There is a warming up period that needs to taken into consideration prior to takeoff.

A turbine engine can in most intances, on a standard FAA 59F deg. day and above, accept takeoff power after 3 minutes from the initial start time.

amazonphil
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
phelpsie87
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 6):

Many airlines besides DL are doing this, including CO, CO Connection, Expressjet, and WN. But you are true, taxiing on one engine does save fuel.

UA does the same, as well as OO. I think almost every airline does this.
 
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par13del
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:03 pm

Here's another, let change the legal definitions of what "On time" means back to what it was, that way when congress see's how bad performance at airports are they will release funds to improve the situation.

Your flight pushes back within 5 mins of its actual departure time, then you sit on the taxiawy for an hour, your flight is ontime, and this situation is already built into your flight schedule and times.

Really want to save fuel, get the airports / airlines more in league with WN system of operations. Go by your local airport on a good weather day, start in the terminal by the boards and see how many airlines have departures within a single hour timeframe, then take a look outside to see if the airport can really handle that traffic.

When the economic loss of having airlines wasting fuel waiting to take off becomes great enough, you will see downsizing of airports in terms of departures / arrivals within an hour, and those slots being tied more tightly to each airlines schedule.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:49 pm

US does this too. All my flts did this.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
drinkstrolley
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:08 pm

How about getting the passengers to push it to the threshold in exchange for a discounted ticket?  Wink
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:35 pm

less airlines.. better timetables.. bigger planes..

means..

less fuel, less costs, cheaper fares..

Why does it have to be that 4x flights leave LHR for MAD within 1 hour..

i'm sure there are many instances of this around the world.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
gopal
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:37 pm

The old practice of taking the passengers to the aircraft by bus could help in fuel savings. The aircraft could be parked close to the runway in allocated spots near the runway. This will also simplify airport design as jetways can be avoided. This will also result in fuel savings as the jetways don't have to be positioned on the arrival of aircraft thus saving fuel. This will also prevent congestion/delays in taxiways.
 
gearup
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:01 pm

An adaptation of a coomon industrial system might be a good idea. AGV's or automatic guided vehicles have been in use in manufacturing for years. Typically they follow buried wires or magnetic strips. Why not develop one that can lift the nosewheel in similer fashion to those tugs that do not use towbars, and follow the guidence system controlled by the tower to the runway holding point (not onto the active runway). At a prescribed point, the airplanes engines could be started to allow enough time to stabilise the core temperature. When the runway holding point is reached, the aircraft is set down, the tug automatically disconnects and follows the guidence system back to the terminal for the next tow. The aircraft would then proceed normally from that point. the tugs could be electric using re-chargable batteries (electric motors have enourmous starting torque capabilities which would be needed to get a 747 rolling). The capability to control the tug from the cockpit could be provided and the ability to jetison the tug in an emergency could also be built in. A technical challenge for sure but the technology already exists and would just need to be adapted.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:12 pm

There's a simple reason why it's not done: Too much strain on the nose gear.

There was an article on this exact topic in Boeing's Airliner Magazine.

They said that for a fully loaded plane, using a tug for extended aircraft movement at high speed puts far too much strain on the nose gear, and could cause it to collapse. However, I imagine that if you wanted to tow the plane at 5 mph, that would probably be ok. Pity that it would take forever.

Here's another reason already touched on: One cannot read the takeoff checklist until all of the engines are running. Also, many of the systems need to be running and warmed up.

Reason #3: The cooling system of the aircraft is most effective when at least one engine is running.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
adh214
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:23 pm

Didn't UA try do this in Chicago at one time for some 747's that were headed out on very long flights? I think it was ORD-DEL. Of course, I may be mistaken and I am sure someone will correct me if I am.

Frankly, I think it is a reasonable idea and I suspect some of the folks in airline management have modeled it. Of course, the model would have to include the higher labor and equipment cost vs. fuel cost. I suspect what they have found is that it is cheaper or safer to taxi on a single engine because we have not seem any airliners trying it.

Andrew
 
flyprivate
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 28):
There was an article on this exact topic in Boeing's Airliner Magazine.

you have a copy of that article.i would love to read it.
 
F9Widebody
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:42 am

As I understand it, UA regularly does this with their ORD-HKG flight because it is so tight on fuel anyway.

Regards
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thegooddoctor
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:19 am

This is a nice idea, but remember that your average aircraft tug (one for small to mid size aircraft) costs around 150,000 USD. So cost is going to be prohibitive.


Second, an APU is an APU - one that can run an aircraft's systems/air conditioning/etc is going to burn equivalent amounts of fuel whether it is ground based or on the tug. And if it is electric, then we just burned lots more fossil fuels to make the electricity, except we lost half the energy in the conversion from chemical energy to heat to electric power.

My 0.02...
S
The GoodDoctor
 
skywatch
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:16 am

After my delay in ORD last week, I can say that that idea would probably turn into a nightmare. Saving fuel is great, but the delays caused would cost the airlines more money than they saved, I'm pretty sure.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
And unless it's a 737, A320, or Md-80, the tug can just pass beneath the wing, so you don't need any additional roads. Not to mention, that almost all major airports already have service roads interlocking the entire airfield.

Unfortunately for this idea, I noticed that most traffic consisted of A320's, MD80's, 737's, CRJ's, and ERJ's. Heavies are definitely the minority  Sad

I am sure a complete renovation of policies and ground systems could make something like this possible, but at the moment, it just doesn't seem practical. Maybe some sort of electrically powered motor that spins the gear is a good thing to look into for ground ops!

--Skywatch
------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting FlyPrivate (Reply 30):
you have a copy of that article.i would love to read it.

If you has asked me 3 months ago, I would have said yes. I've since moved, and haven't seen it. I do remember that it was from 1989. I'll keep an eye out for it, though.

Actially, I overstated Boeing's position. They didn't say it would collapse per se, but that permanent damage could occur. Of course, nose gear collapse is implied.

Also, the idea that tugs would be able to share a taxiway and pass underneath the wings of jets is a recipe for disaster. Sooner or later, someone is going to screw up.

I like the idea of only using 1/2 of the engines to get out to the runway.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
AirSean
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:21 am

At Virgin Blue in OZ we have an electric pushback device that is remote controlled by the engineer departing the aircraft.

They surround the left rear undercarrage and can push the aircraft back and also tow it forward. It requires no additional staff and no fuel!


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1025594/M/


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0949700/M/
Work out what you don't do well and don't do it!
 
backfire103
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:08 am

I found this 737 being taxied by a tug at AMS. Dose KL do this for all their aircraft?
Big version: Width: 1028 Height: 734 File size: 1058kb
 
mcr
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:14 am

I can't find the reference right now, but I was reading an article about the explansion plans for LHR and their impact on local air quality recently. That said that among other changes, if the developments that we want take place, aircraft would have to be towed all the way out to the departure runway by electric vehicles before starting their engines. Various other measures were also talked about, such as moving all car parks off the current airport site and linking them to the terminals with some sort of electric transit system.
 
Morvious
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Backfire103 (Reply 36):
I found this 737 being taxied by a tug at AMS. Dose KL do this for all their aircraft?

Nope, only when they go or come from maintanence, or you see (Sometimes) a B747 combi being tugged from the cargo hold to the gates.

The idea is not bad at all, and there could be a system that could handle this (Atleast I can't see why not)
Could it also help a lot with sound regulations around airfields??
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
swissy
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 18):
Personally I'd rather see a system where you taxi to a point after landing, shutdown (after waiting the required amount of time) and shut down. Now we can be tugged to our parking spot.

Phil has a point with above and it would work easier than tow them for t/o, sure you need more tugs and at some airports it takes a while to get to the gates......... and if apu is i/o they have to run one engine anyhow...... so I guess for now we have to accept it the way it is.............

Cheers,
 
zamaria
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
By the way, what happen to Boeing testing a nose-wheel taxi motor on an AC 767? Wasn't that supposed to happen a few months ago? Does any one know how it went?

I think this is a better fuel saving idea than using the tugs - though the extra weight and complexity could be an issue. I searched around for info on how the test went (I remember reading something about this idea a while back), but haven't found anything. Must've not gone well, otherwise I'm sure we would've heard something...anybody know?

-Z
 
samair
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:40 am

i think its a very good idea but if it can go wrong it will! the tug braking down building the new 'tug' taxi ways the tow bar breaking !
the captain has now dimmed the lights for take off this is a routine procedure for flights during the hours of darkness!
 
aircanada014
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:43 am

There was a talk with Boeing and Air Canada to do a test trial on B767. Its
Here's the link http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q3/nr_050801a.html


Boeing Demonstrates New Technology for Moving Airplanes on the Ground

SEATTLE, Aug. 01, 2005 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] and Chorus Motors have demonstrated an exploratory technology that could lead to a more efficient way of moving airplanes when they are on the ground at airports.

Successful tests in June of an onboard electric motor attached to the nose wheel of a Boeing 767 have shown that it may be a viable way of powering airplanes to move in and around gates, largely eliminating the use of airport tow tugs and jet engines now serving this purpose, as well as reducing emissions.

"We are striving to help our aerospace customers operate more efficiently, cleanly and quietly at airports," said Jim Renton, a director of Technology Integration in Boeing Phantom Works, the company's advanced research and development unit. "Our testing has shown that onboard electric motors can be very useful in achieving that goal if packaging, weight and flight-related technical issues identified during these tests can be resolved."

"We believe onboard electric motors have a great many advantages," added Bob Carman, Chorus Motors' WheelTug™ program manager. "They could reduce the need for ground tugs and their associated costs, allow faster flight turnarounds and increased fuel efficiency per trip, and reduce airplane noise and emissions at airports, to name just a few advantages."

Phantom Works researchers, together with those from Chorus Motors, a developer of innovative electric motor technologies, have worked together this year to design, build and operate a prototype onboard electric drive system that may enable pilots of large airplanes to be in complete control of their airplanes from gate to gate.

In June, the Phantom Works/Chorus Motors team, in cooperation with Air Canada, installed an electric motor drive on an Air Canada 767 and conducted a series of successful tests. Air Canada pilots performed ground maneuvers on slopes and terrains typical of those at airports around the world, including driving in reverse from a gate and taxiing forward to a runway. Tests also were performed at ramp temperatures exceeding 120 degrees Fahrenheit and at loads of up to 94 percent of the maximum takeoff weight for the airplane.

"Powered nose wheels have very positive benefits and I am quite impressed with the potential of the electric motor technology," said Capt. Hugh Campbell, director of Pilot Qualifications at Air Canada, who participated in the testing with Air Canada's chief 767 pilot, Capt. Richard Burke.

Next steps involve working to successfully resolve the technical issues that surfaced during the tests in order to define a path for commercial system installation.

Boeing Phantom Works is the advanced R&D unit of The Boeing Company. As an element of Boeing Technology, it provides advanced system solutions and innovative, breakthrough technologies that reduce cycle time and cost while improving the quality and performance of aerospace products and services. In addition to its own development work, Phantom Works collaborates with universities, companies, and organizations around the globe to ensure it is finding the best technology solutions the world has to offer.Chorus Motors plc (US OTC: CHOMF), a developer of proprietary electric motor technologies, is a subsidiary of Borealis Exploration Limited (US OTC: BOREF). The Chorus systems produce high torque at start-up speeds and can be used in applications in aircraft, automobiles, trucks, locomotives, and ships. A wholly-owned subsidiary of Chorus Motors plc, WheelTug plc, has been assigned rights for aerospace applications of the Chorus family of motor technologies. For more information, see www.chorusmotors.gi.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:23 am

I don't know what United's policy is, but while on the bus from employee parking to the terminal, i frequently see UA747's with all four engines running during taxi.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
md80fanatic
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:24 am

It's somewhat amusing to see all the great ideas on how to save fuel....especially when the world is bursting at the seams with crude oil. We now see oil companies buying out all the small time refineries and shutting them down to reduce supplies and even going so far as to halt further extraction in the US's most productive fields, which also goes a long way toward reducing supply thereby increasing the price we are expected to pay for it. Man....these guys are literally laughing all the way to the bank. Just wait for the next quarter's profit reports...you think the last ones were outrageous?

You should have bought stock in these crooks long ago.....oh well, too late now.
 
MrMcCoy
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:17 am

RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:25 am

Personally, I think that some variation of this idea (original post) is fantastic. Yes, it would require certain elements of airport reorganization, but then again the same folks fought runway length increases back in the 1960s due to the extra taxi time of landing airliners.. talk about having the cart before the horse.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
F14ATomcat
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:26 am

RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:42 am

How about dead stick landings?
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:11 am

If you click on this page you will see what the motor looks like when its hook up to the nose gear. http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Art...ticleID=37359&PrinterFriendly=true
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:24 am

Another idea is an electric motor driving the rear gear wheels. Powered by the APU.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
tozairport
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:01 am

RE: Heres A Great Way To Save Fuel!

Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting Adh214 (Reply 29):
Didn't UA try do this in Chicago at one time for some 747's that were headed out on very long flights? I think it was ORD-DEL. Of course, I may be mistaken and I am sure someone will correct me if I am.



Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 31):
As I understand it, UA regularly does this with their ORD-HKG flight because it is so tight on fuel anyway.

You are both right with the exception that we don't do it anymore. When Boeing got wind of this, they pretty well freaked because the -400 nose gear is not designed for that kind of use. Now they just taxi conventionally. If the flight is light enough then the pilots will just start 2 and 3. Most of the time they will start all four. Also, the engines require 5-8 minutes of warm up time after the engine starts.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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