BMIFlyer
Topic Author
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AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:03 am

Quote:
A US-bound plane carrying 240 passengers was turned around mid-flight for security reasons.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5253930.stm

I thought the "advance passenger information list" was supposed to be checked and questioned before the flight took off??

This must have cost AA quite a bit of $$$ to return to LHR mid flight!


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
MCOflyer
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:08 am

Thats good though it cost AA thousands of dollars. I wonder what the reason was.

MCOflyer
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varig md-11
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:23 am

a no fly list??
so how come they were allowed to fly in the 1st place?
at one point DHS and software subcontractors should explain what kind of mess they are doing
causing extra costs and inconvenience to airlines and pax is cool, but it happens on a regular basis that supposed suspects generating flight diversions are just normal pax
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DAYflyer
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 2):
a no fly list??
so how come they were allowed to fly in the 1st place?

I thought the whole idea was to check the passengers BEFORE the plane takes off.
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Venezuela747
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:43 am

Yeah why was he given a boarding pass anyways? I checked theTSA website a week ago for something I needed to carry on board and it said "How do I know I'm not on the no-fly list?"...."If you are given a boarding pass then you are not on the nofly list" I think the US, should have informed AA of this person who was going to be on their flight at least prior to departure not 5 hours in the flight.

Which brings up this question.....most of the time you are on the no fly list because your name resembles one of a terrorist. So if you get to the check-in and they sau you can't fly you are on the no fly list. How long does it take for them to allow you to fly, is it just a few minutes, few hours, few days. And is the airline responsible for rebooking you on the next available flight once your name has cleared?
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varig md-11
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:44 am

last time I boarded AA to MIA from CDG, my passport was swiped into the computer at check in

I believed that if I were on a no fly list, an alarm would ring and I would have been electrocuted on the spot...seriously I thought a message would appear to the agent indicating check in could not be completed

but again software developpers could explain better what is the purpose of the cr!p they sold to DHS and airlines
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cedarjet
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Thread starter):
I thought the "advance passenger information list" was supposed to be checked and questioned before the flight took off??



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
I thought the whole idea was to check the passengers BEFORE the plane takes off.

No indeedy, it takes three hours to check I think. I certainly know it's not complete when the plane takes off usually, and it has long been a topic of discussion that for fuel and general efficiency, it should be possible to check within a couple of minutes of the flight closing at check in. Hasn't been achieved yet. That is why planes get turned around in flight, such as that KLM 747 going to Mexico City, I think got as far as Canada before being sent back to Amsterdam. Long day's flying just to end up still in Holland (nice place though it is).

Btw the BBC said it wasn't necessarily related to terrorism, not implying a mechanical cause, just that maybe there was an organised crime gangster onboard or an angry Cuban music lawyer with a Platinum Admiral card didn't get upgraded to First and freaked out or something. Tugmaster Dave will know fer shore.
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mika
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:15 am

As it appears, this security system would have done nothing to stop any of the flights on 9/11 from being hijacked and flown into buildings. Who came up with this stuff? Hijacking an A/C and using it for malevolence certainly does not take 3+ hours if you are determined to complete your terrorist mission and do it fairly quickly.


 Confused
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Thread starter):
I thought the "advance passenger information list" was supposed to be checked and questioned before the flight took off??

In theory they want that. In practice, it can't always be done. Which is hard to believe in this day of "internet tubes" and such...

Quoting Mika (Reply 7):
Hijacking an A/C and using it for malevolence certainly does not take 3+ hours if you are determined to complete your terrorist mission and do it fairly quickly.

Mixing two issues here. One is to stop hijackings. One supposes (falsely) that the added pre-screening will prevent weapons from getting on the plane, and that new procedures will prevent hijackings.

But the international screening is to prevent baddies from getting into the USA to do damage at a later date. They are not so worried that the plane will blow up as much as that the person will get to the USA and disappear into the system, then popup later like many of the 19 9/11 guys.

Thus turning the jet around and dropping them back at the POI means it's the country who let them in's problem.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
mika
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
Mixing two issues here. One is to stop hijackings. One supposes (falsely) that the added pre-screening will prevent weapons from getting on the plane, and that new procedures will prevent hijackings.

But the international screening is to prevent baddies from getting into the USA to do damage at a later date. They are not so worried that the plane will blow up as much as that the person will get to the USA and disappear into the system, then popup later like many of the 19 9/11 guys.

Thus turning the jet around and dropping them back at the POI means it's the country who let them in's problem.

I see, thanks for enlightening me. It does seem that the system can use some improvement but i´m sure that lies in it´s future, as i understand this thing is in the baby stage at this point.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Mika (Reply 9):
I see, thanks for enlightening me. It does seem that the system can use some improvement but i´m sure that lies in it´s future, as i understand this thing is in the baby stage at this point.

And since it's a government contracted thing, that future is, oh, I don't know, 500 years away?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
rdwootty
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:46 am

It just shows that the system is not falible I really despair at the US goverment,if fact at any government that puts in computor systems that fail to do the job and them balme ervyone else!
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
Mixing two issues here. One is to stop hijackings. One supposes (falsely) that the added pre-screening will prevent weapons from getting on the plane, and that new procedures will prevent hijackings.

But the international screening is to prevent baddies from getting into the USA to do damage at a later date. They are not so worried that the plane will blow up as much as that the person will get to the USA and disappear into the system, then popup later like many of the 19 9/11 guys.

Thus turning the jet around and dropping them back at the POI means it's the country who let them in's problem.

If they weren't ultimately concerned with them blowing up or causing harm aboard AA109 (which I guess they aren't sure of) then why weren't the suspicious people (probably infants or 1970s musicians  Wink) bounced back to the UK off BOS immigration costing AA $5k instead of many multiples of that rebooking passengers and sending a 777 back to LHR?

Sometimes the procedures and regulations of the country I live in baffle me...
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Summa767
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
But the international screening is to prevent baddies from getting into the USA to do damage at a later date. They are not so worried that the plane will blow up as much as that the person will get to the USA and disappear into the system, then popup later like many of the 19 9/11 guys.

But if it is not as if there is no control at immigration entry once in the USA!
If they find a name that they have queries about, they can ask questions once they have landed, and they need not let them in!

I find it very funny to see how the US is damaging its own airline industry and tourism with policies of paranoia.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:49 pm

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 12):
If they weren't ultimately concerned with them blowing up or causing harm aboard AA109 (which I guess they aren't sure of) then why weren't the suspicious people (probably infants or 1970s musicians  ) bounced back to the UK off BOS immigration costing AA $5k instead of many multiples of that rebooking passengers and sending a 777 back to LHR?

Hey, I agree, but the no-fly list is the no-fly list, and while not everyone on it is going to blow up the plane, they turn the plane around anyway.

Frankly, if the person was going to blow up the plane, how does turning it around help stop that? And if they were going to hijack it, they can still do so and just turn it back around, right?

So, obviously, the reason to turn the plane around is to send the person back to where they boarded.

If they landed in the USA, then we could say 'send him/her back' but the other country can say 'we don't want him/her either' and then there's a problem. By turning the plane around, it remains the problem of the country who let him in/on in the first place...
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AirSpare
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
And since it's a government contracted thing, that future is, oh, I don't know, 500 years away?

And over budget.

I wonder if AA will give them a refund?
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ANother
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:07 pm

What I can't understand is why the US simply doesn't adopt the Australian System.

You can apply for an ETA online http://www.eta.immi.gov.au/ or have the Travel Agent or airline do it for you.

When you check in for the flight to Australia (I've even had it checked in Geneva on a connecting flight) the ETA is checked against the passport and a board/don't board message is sent. If it's board, you get your boarding card. If not, you don't.

This allows the Australians to pre-check your name / details against their lists and determine before you check-in if you can travel.
 
loggat
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:16 pm

I think it should be renamed the "No flying after 3 hours list"
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bennett123
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:36 pm

If it is a false alarm, do they put you on the next flight.
 
ltbewr
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RE: AA109 (LHR-BOS) Returns To LHR (security Reason)

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:54 am

One problem with the no-fly list is similar names. So a need to input and have searches done on the other info, and even then you could have 2 or more people on the aircarft with no-fly profiles but are not the people that are the 'no-fly' ones.

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