zarniwoop
Posts: 255
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Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:40 am

From the BBC news website:

"A Swiss prosecutor has filed manslaughter charges against eight employees of an air traffic control firm over an air crash in July 2002.
The Winterthur prosecutor called for jail terms of six to 15 months, alleging "homicide by negligence".

The collision killed 71 people, most of them Russian schoolchildren. It involved a jet of Russia's Bashkirian Airlines and a DHL cargo plane."

"An air accident inquiry last year concluded that a catastrophic chain of human error was to blame. It accused Skyguide of organisational failures contributing to the crash."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5253696.stm

I remember seeing a TV program on this crash. I seem to remember that there was only one ATC guy covering a few stations while his colleague took a coffee break (or something like that).
 
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LTU932
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting Zarniwoop (Thread starter):
I remember seeing a TV program on this crash. I seem to remember that there was only one ATC guy covering a few stations while his colleague took a coffee break (or something like that).

I think I saw the same programme on the Discovery Channel. From what I remember, it was not only the fact that the ATC guy was not only alone, but also that there were also several technical things which went wrong. I quote from the article:

An air accident inquiry last year concluded that a catastrophic chain of human error was to blame. It accused Skyguide of organisational failures contributing to the crash.

Is there a link with the full accident report made from the crash?
 
 
PKK
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:14 pm

 
RJ100
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:23 pm

There was some technical maintenance going on, for instance an important phone line was cut. Therefore the German controllers could not warn the Swiss controller, when they saw what is going to happen.

Apart from that, the Swiss controller was alone in the room while some others were "having a break" in a seperate room.

The story is very sad, not only because of the people killed in the accident but also because the Swiss controller, a Danish citizen, got murdered by a relative of some of the victims some time later, leaving wife and children behind as well.

Regards,
RJ100
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voyager747
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:17 am

That air traffic controller got killed.

Lets not forget that

I am wondering who did it?
 
Qantas744er
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Voyager747 (Reply 5):
I am wondering who did it?

A father of 2 children that he lost on the flight and his wife. He spent all his money for a very beautifull grave that he mad ein his hometown, and visited it every day for many hours. He traveled to Switzerland and all he wanted was an offical apology for the killed by the swiss ATC company. But he bnever got it, and that is what pushed him to kill the Controller infront of his home in switzerland.

The other factor was the the TCAS in the Tu154 told the pilot to go up... but because Russian pilots are know not to rely on their own instinct and still might be very carefull with commands like because of USSR times they still follow commands from their superiors even though they might know something is wrong. And because the controller told him not to climb he never did even though his TCAS told him to.

So this is very controvercial, because would the russian pilot have followed his TCAS warning the crash would have been prevented. But of course he had to listen to the Controller.

In no way am I tring to be racist etc. against russian pilots.

Cheers Leo
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
afay1
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:17 am

It is true that Russian pilots are required to follow the order of the controller above the warning of TCAS. There are very good reasons, in general, why people might not trust instruments over the direct order of a controller, in this case an overworked Dane working for a negligent Swiss company. It is indeed controversial, but I don't think it has anything to do with the TU-154 pilot's instinct, rather what he had been taught as a professional.
 
RJ100
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:45 pm

I think SkyGuide has reacted very bad after this accident. They put the blame very soon on the Russian pilots...and some days later we see that the whole SkyGUide team was having a coffee break instead of working plus they cut of their own telephone lines!!! That's very unprofessional...

Regards,
RJ100
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David L
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
but because Russian pilots are know not to rely on their own instinct and still might be very carefull with commands like because of USSR times they still follow commands from their superiors even though they might know something is wrong.

I haven't seen anything to suggest it was The Russian Way. From what I can gather, they got conflicting advice and their instincts at that moment told them to go with ATC. They didn't have a lot of time to think about it. Would pilots of another nationality have reacted differently? Perhaps ATC/TCAS conflicts are dealt with in training elsewhere - I don't know.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Crash

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:33 am

Being an ATC, and having studied these sort of incidents back to front, and over and over in our team resource management courses - and let me just say there is more to this whole thing other than a coffee break and phone lines were not working...

As happened in Linate - and everywhere else for that matter where a severe incident or accident occurs - there are many contributing factors that lead up to an accident.

I do not have the documentation for the Euberlingen accident at hand, but I remember that the STCA (Short Term Conflict Alerts) were off, as the radar system was downgraded for maintenance. The main telephone system was taken offline for maintenance. There was the staffing issue (whether short staffed, or taking breaks I can't remember, although I think both). Coupled with that the lack of clarity over who is to be obeyed: ATC or TCAS.

The neighbouring sector had a conflict alert, but was not aware that their direct line was not serviceable, and tried in vain watching an accident unfold.

So the end result was a tragic accident, the likes of which I hope I will never have to read about or see again.

I am sure I speak for ATC in general when I say that each time I plug my headset in, I give my 100% to make sure that the skies I control remain safe.
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gerardo
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RE: Swiss ATC Charged Over Bashkirian&DHL 2002 Cra

Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:52 am

There was a huge topic about this here right after the tragic crash:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/870387

Perhaps some might find it interesting again.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 10):
Being an ATC, and having studied these sort of incidents back to front, and over and over in our team resource management courses - and let me just say there is more to this whole thing other than a coffee break and phone lines were not working...

You bet there was far more, than just this. I don't remember everything right now, but I guess, the least to blame is the sole controller, who simply didn't have sufficient technical support systems to fulfill his duty.

Gerardo
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