leelaw
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Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:41 am

LONDON (Dow Jones) -- Airbus said Tuesday it delivered 34 airplanes and took orders for 83 aircraft in July, resulting in 253 deliveries and 200 orders thus far this year.

The figures mean Airbus is on track to reach its goal of 430 plane deliveries this year, up from 378 in 2005.

Airbus is expected to deliver more planes than arch rival Boeing Co. for a fourth year in a row, but the U.S. company is expected to take more orders for the first time in six years. Boeing has already secured more than 500 orders so far this year...


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115504562829929835.html
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vivek0072
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
The figures mean Airbus is on track to reach its goal of 430 plane deliveries this year, up from 378 in 2005.

Will the A380 be one of the 430 ?

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115504562829929835.html

Reuires subscription Sad
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FCKC
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 am

So obviously , even with all the bad news Airbus had this year , it will stay No1 , as only delivered planes are counting , not those which have been ordered during the year.Congrats to Airbus !!!!!!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 am

Good news for both manufactuers, and now that the US airlines are starting to recover, this should translate into additional orders (and eventual deliveries) for both companies.
 
NYC777
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Vivek0072 (Reply 3):
Will the A380 be one of the 430 ?

1 A380 for Singapore

YTD orders for Boeing is 531
YTD orders for Airbus is 200
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astuteman
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
200 orders thus far this year

Looking at the Airbus Orders spreadsheet, there's still a number of big Farnborough announcements (or nearly announcements.. A330F  Smile..) still not in those numbers.
Going to be an interesting second half (again  Smile )

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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 6):
Looking at the Airbus Orders spreadsheet, there's still a number of big Farnborough announcements (or nearly announcements.. A330F ..) still not in those numbers.
Going to be an interesting second half (again )

Just like last year was!

However, I think Airbus have just about admitted that Boeing will sell more than them this year. At Farnborough Leahy was predicting combined orders to total around 1,100 and that Airbus would have around 500 sales.
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RAPCON
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 2):
So obviously , even with all the bad news Airbus had this year , it will stay No1 , as only delivered planes are counting , not those which have been ordered during the year.Congrats to Airbus !!!!!!!

Deliveries, schmeliveries!! Who cares about deliveries, if you're not getting more sales sooner or later you're thru!!

Dump Leahy, get a new salesman, and SELL!!!
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trex8
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 8):
Dump Leahy, get a new salesman, and SELL!!!

except that selling doesn't necessarily mean you make money either as Boeing found out in 97!
 
manni
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 8):
Dump Leahy, get a new salesman, and SELL!!!

 Yeah sure

Despite all the negative news about Airbus, in recent months, Leahy did a remarkably good job.

1. No loss of A380 orders, but taking additional orders.
2. Keeping all the old A350 customers at the moment..
3. Land a US$ 7 billion order from SIA.
4. Apart from the 200 firm orders, there's about 300 commitments, around 200 of them for wide bodies.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 8):

Deliveries, schmeliveries!! Who cares about deliveries, if you're not getting more sales sooner or later you're thru!

200 sales in 7 months. Taking them in at the same speed would result in 350 orders a year (highly unlikely with already more than 300 commitments writen down aswell). At thsi years production speed it would tke Airbus another 25 years to run trough their orderbook. Time to get worried.  rotfl 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
At this year's production speed it would take Airbus another 25 years to run trough their orderbook. Time to get worried.

The workforces at both Boeing and Airbus are probably feeling pretty confident at the moment about their long-term prospects.  Smile
 
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 2):
So obviously , even with all the bad news Airbus had this year , it will stay No1 , as only delivered planes are counting , not those which have been ordered during the year.

Hhmm  scratchchin 

Perhaps ,
However , it is possible that " just like last year " , Boeing may have fewer deliveries - But , receive the majority of the market in terms of dollar value .

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
3. Land a US$ 7 billion order from SIA.

That deal helped SQ get a better deal with Boeing in the Twin Aisle market ! SQ made that happen ! SQ couldn't allow Boeing to run away in the mid market . Which they were doing by the way ! Yah remember 2005 ? How many A345/6 did airbus sell compared to the 777 ???

Did SQ prop up Airbus ???

Hhmm scratchchin 

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Record " Pickles " too !  eyebrow 

 silly 

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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
Perhaps ,
However , it is possible that " just like last year " , Boeing may have fewer deliveries - But , receive the majority of the market in terms of dollar value .

Of course Boeing will. Even with the hard working EU taxpayer bailing out the 350 development write off.  Big grin
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manni
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
That deal helped SQ get a better deal with Boeing in the Twin Aisle market ! SQ made that happen ! SQ couldn't allow Boeing to run away in the mid market .

So it's still a thorn in your eye, the SQ deal.  rotfl 

building on your theory.... the 787's were placed first, followed by the A350's. Perhaps the 787 deal was placed to get a better deal from Airbus for their A350?

Ooh and BTW, by ordering additional A380's, SQ doesn't seem to have a problem to let Airbus run away with the VLA passenger aircraft market.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
Yah remember 2005 ? How many A345/6 did airbus sell compared to the 777 ???

No surprise you've digged this up again. I somehow expect last year A340 VS 777 numbers to be used for many years to come. As a 'feel good cure' in not so good times.  rotfl 

Talking about SQ earlier on and now the 777, reminds me how SQ ruled out the 777LR against all expectations of our resident fleet managers. Another reason to dig up A340 vs 777?  scratchchin 

Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
Boeing may have fewer deliveries - But , receive the majority of the market in terms of dollar value .

You're mixing up things here. Deliberatly or not? Boeing has recieved fewer orders last year but recieved more of the market in terms of value at listprices.

Something we might see happening this year aswell. With Boeing and Airbus swapping places.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
The workforces at both Boeing and Airbus are probably feeling pretty confident at the moment about their long-term prospects.

Indeed, even the younger employees seem to have enough work ahead of them untill retirement... if the Boeing and Airbus sales teams don't improve.  Wink
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art
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 13):
Even with the hard working EU taxpayer bailing out the 350 development write off.

I pay less tax because of my govt's past investments in Airbus, so I don't actually want it to stop bailing the company out. I do, however, want it to invest without any repayment getout clauses.
 
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
Taking them in at the same speed would result in 350 orders a year (highly unlikely with already more than 300 commitments writen down aswell).

So applying your formula what would Boeing's result be? MMMUUUCCCHHH HIGHER, EH?
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
Despite all the negative news about Airbus, in recent months, Leahy did a remarkably good job.

1. No loss of A380 orders, but taking additional orders.

Yet! Do you have the power of the future to tell us there won't be any cancellations. I'm definitely of the opinion there will be. You could say the 748F booted the 380F out at EK.

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
2. Keeping all the old A350 customers at the moment..

And who knows how many they will keep and how many they will lose. Many quotes recently from Airbus officials saying they could lose a couple of existing A350 orders. If that were to happen, Air Europa, GECAS and possibly US Air would be at the top of my list.

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
3. Land a US$ 7 billion order from SIA.

Yes, a very significant order, which is still not firm. Same status as the SQ 787 order. No doubt SQ screwed Airbus mightily on this deal. No doubt too that SQ wants to remain dual supplied.

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
4. Apart from the 200 firm orders, there's about 300 commitments, around 200 of them for wide bodies.

A very good period for the A330. And it has to be as Airbus have nothing else to offer that is competitive before 2012, or whenever they get around to building it. The 340 is dead, even though Leahy claims the market still exists. Interim 330s switching to 350s seems to be Airbus' strategy.
 
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 14):
Talking about SQ earlier on and now the 777, reminds me how SQ ruled out the 777LR against all expectations of our resident fleet managers. Another reason to dig up A340 vs 777?

And they aren't getting any more 345s. I wonder, just wonder, if Airbus have guaranteed a residual price on the SQ 345 fleet. I think it was very likely tied in to the 350/380 deal. SQ are not making money on their ULH flights and yields are no higher than on their 1-stoppers. Whilst the 772LR would have been an improvement, the best strategy for SQ was to stay with their small 345 fleet.
 
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 17):

So applying your formula what would Boeing's result be? MMMUUUCCCHHH HIGHER, EH?

Indeed. I can perfectly live with 2 manufacturers sharing the market. One manufacturers succes does not need to be the others demise. A theory others seem to have issues with...

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):

Yet! Do you have the power of the future to tell us there won't be any cancellations. I'm definitely of the opinion there will be.

No, I can't. Good on you, you feel confident you can. But for the sake of argument, you might want to define a timeperiod... In a typical 20 to 25 year timespan of the production life of an aircraft a cancellation might indeed occur.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
You could say the 748F booted the 380F out at EK.

I could, but you might have noticed that I was making a POSITIVE balance.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
If that were to happen, Air Europa, GECAS and possibly US Air would be at the top of my list.

And what's the relevance of this?

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
And who knows how many they will keep and how many they will lose.

I did write 'at the moment'. I too noted Airbus officials saying they might loose some orders, however so far they've only gained a commitment.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
No doubt SQ screwed Airbus mightily on this deal.

 no 

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
No doubt too that SQ wants to remain dual supplied.

Not at all costs. See the additional A380 order.  Wink
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
The figures mean Airbus is on track to reach its goal of 430 plane deliveries this year, up from 378 in 2005.

If I may respecfully point out, what's the news in this? Airbus gave initial guidance at the beginning of 2006 that they expected to deliver between 425 and 435 frames this year. All this appears to be is re-affirmation of that guidance. For comparison, Boeing stated they expected to deliver 395 frames including 30 which were not delivered in 2005 due to the Machinists strike. Nice to see Airbus reach the milestone despite all the Media fluff and blah blah over recent months.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Good news for both manufactuers, and now that the US airlines are starting to recover, this should translate into additional orders (and eventual deliveries) for both companies.

Nice comment Stitch, it shows the difference between a true enthusiast and those which aren't whom troll the forum from time to time. For that I thank you.

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
Despite all the negative news about Airbus, in recent months,

As I stated before it's good to see re-affirmation of their delivery guidance provided in January. Good news all the same

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
1. No loss of A380 orders, but taking additional orders.

So true but unfortunately there is a "twist" to this order that will make for interesting reading when it becomes public. At the moment I could offer an opinion as I cannot provide a linked source. But I can't wait for it to become public and for the ensuing discussion  Wink

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
2. Keeping all the old A350 customers at the moment..

Whilst true at the moment 2 of them won't be there by the end of the year, again, as I have no link, that is my opinion. Not to detract from the program I've no doubt that more will be gained to ensure Industrial launch proceeds as planned.

Quoting Manni (Reply 10):
3. Land a US$ 7 billion order from SIA.

Great order indeed however SQ stayed with the 789 and Airbus have to provide 19 new build A333s via their own leasing entity.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
YTD orders for Boeing is 531
YTD orders for Airbus is 200

Re-wind to 2005 sir and as the saying goes, don't count your chickens before they hatch! Airbus traditionally book their new orders in the second half of the year and their sales outlook is more optimistic mid year than what it was at the start of 2006.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 19):
if Airbus have guaranteed a residual price on the SQ 345 fleet.

No need to wonder sir, it's the truth, though again, I can only offer an opinion as I cannot link to my source.

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jdevora
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:54 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 22):

So true but unfortunately there is a "twist" to this order that will make for interesting reading when it becomes public. At the moment I could offer an opinion as I cannot provide a linked source. But I can't wait for it to become public and for the ensuing discussion Wink

And are you going to leave us like this???? Could you please provide us with you valuable opinion?

Cheers
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 22):
If I may respectfully point out, what's the news in this?

None, once more some journalists are just filling their pages with aviation 'news'....

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 22):
Nice to see Airbus reach the milestone despite all the Media fluff and blah blah over recent months.

That's because the 'problems' at Airbus have been predominantly media-related actually. Airbus was, is and will for the foreseeable future be a booming company, with a solid basis for business and profitability: they are nowhere near a collapse as some were already openly discussing. Communication with the media, especially the US based media which looks at Airbus with a bad eye, could have been more streamlined and controlled indeed to avoid being slashed so easily, in a similar way as Boeing massages the reporting on their problems (787 technical issues, 748i fiasco and redesign), and it is now being taken care off.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 22):
there is a "twist" to this order that will make for interesting reading when it becomes public. At the moment I could offer an opinion as I cannot provide a linked source. But I can't wait for it to become public and for the ensuing discussion.

The 'twist' is not really that spectacular and makes sense for both SQ and Airbus... obviously some will try to spin it, but with the knowledge communications from Airbus will be better coached as from now, this will be dealt with in a strict business-like manner, not the emotional-sensational manner from the recent past; the deal secures more A380s and this is what the company should focus on, not all the emotions and rumours which may come from the reshuffle.

[Edited 2006-08-09 12:25:22]
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:48 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 25):
The 'twist' is not really that spectacular and makes sense for both SQ and Airbus... obviously some will try to spin it, but with the knowledge communications from Airbus will be better coached as from now, this will be dealt with in a strict business-like manner, not the emotional-sensational manner from the recent past; the deal secures more A380s and this is what the company should focus on, not all the emotions and rumours which may come from the reshuffle.

Isn't an order cancellation and/or deferral thereby making the additional A380 delivery slots in 2008 and 2009 available for SQ by any other name, still an order cancellation/deferral?
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Halibut
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Not at all costs. See the additional A380 order

You are forgetting the compensation/penalties for the multiple A380 delays .  yes 

What happen to them , hah ???

Hhmm  scratchchin 

No doubt SQ worked that into the deal !  yes 

Halibut
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 20):
And are you going to leave us like this????

Yes sir, respectfully I am  Smile

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 20):
Could you please provide us with you valuable opinion?

I appreciate that you value my opinion however it is all I can provide. As per forum rules I cannot provide a link to my source and given the nature of the information it would be a requirement that I provide such a source.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
None, once more some journalists are just filling their pages with aviation 'news'....

Sabenapilot I have missed your posts, this is one point we most definately agree on. The media are finding things a little slow by their definition though Airbus booking 83 firm orders in a month doesn't seem enough to appease them  Wink

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
The 'twist' is not really that spectacular and makes sense for both SQ and Airbus...

Thank you for posting that sir as it does underpin, to a degree, what I was trying to express with my opinion in my previous post.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
this will be dealt with in a strict business-like manner

Of that there is no doubt because it only involves the 2 companies you referred to, Airbus and SQ.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 22):
Isn't an order cancellation and/or deferral thereby making the additional A380 delivery slots in 2008 and 2009 available for SQ by any other name, still an order cancellation/deferral?

No cancellation nor deferral has anything to do with the "twist" to the order which I referred to and to which Sabenapilot responded to. Refer to the following;

The Singapore carrier's LOI also covered nine firm A380-800s and six new options, utilising delivery positions protected by options in the airline's initial order for 10 aircraft in 2001.

http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/

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2wingtips
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
No, I can't. Good on you, you feel confident you can. But for the sake of argument, you might want to define a timeperiod... In a typical 20 to 25 year timespan of the production life of an aircraft a cancellation might indeed occur.

Yep. 6-12 months. SQ have taken 9 more slots in the 2008/10 timeframe and these aren't coming from increased production. Of course they could pull the old Airbus trick of permanent deferrals, or keeping orders on the books which have no chance of reality. TWA comes to mind. The A380F is staggering.

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
If that were to happen, Air Europa, GECAS and possibly US Air would be at the top of my list.

And what's the relevance of this?

Can't you work this one out? The relevance is you were talking about no loss of A350 customers. I fully expect 2-3 original 350 customers to back away from their commitment.

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
You could say the 748F booted the 380F out at EK.

I could, but you might have noticed that I was making a POSITIVE balance.

Balanced from you. Is that a joke?
 
Adria
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 23):
You are forgetting the compensation/penalties for the multiple A380 delays .

What happen to them , hah ???

Hhmm

No doubt SQ worked that into the deal !

and your source is?

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 12):
Of course Boeing will. Even with the hard working EU taxpayer bailing out the 350 development write off.

well I would not worry about our tax money since you throw out more money for useless wars in a week that the whole development of the A350 costs us. At least it goes for something usefull not just to farmers...


But besides that I'm really happy to see all those funny arguments just to put down Airbus. It shows that the company is back on track and that the competition is aware of it.
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 24):
No cancellation nor deferral has anything to do with the "twist" to the order which I referred to and to which Sabenapilot responded to. Refer to the following;

The Singapore carrier's LOI also covered nine firm A380-800s and six new options, utilising delivery positions protected by options in the airline's initial order for 10 aircraft in 2001.

Nevertheless, "analysts/industry sources" are skeptical about that particular assertion by Airbus:

...Meanwhile, the announcement that SIA is taking delivery of its nine new A380s from mid-2008 led analysts to speculate that some carriers have either cancelled delivery positions or let them slip. The latest production delays mean that Airbus likely will not catch up on deliveries until 2010, analysts said. No airlines have announced any cancellations formally, although industry speculation mounts on the exact status of orders by Malaysia Airlines and Thai Airways.

http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=5806

SQ's own explanation seems a lot less clear-cut than that offered by Airbus:

The decision to order nine more A380s comes after extensive discussions with Airbus about delivery positions, as well as existing and forward contractual obligations...

...Singapore Airlines currently has orders for 10 Airbus A380s. Under the revised delivery schedule, these aircraft will be delivered between the end of 2006 and mid 2008. The delivery schedule for the additional nine aircraft takes into account revisions to the delivery schedules for the A380s announced by Airbus in June 2006...

...With this order, Singapore Airlines will have 19 firm orders and 6 options for the Airbus A380 and is now scheduled to take delivery of its first aircraft in December 2006...


http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...any_info/press_release/NE_3406.jsp

I'm looking forward to reading about some other nascent twist.

[Edited 2006-08-09 15:25:21]
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 27):
Nevertheless, "analysts/industry sources" are skeptical about that particular assertion by Airbus:

Just how many of those "analysts/industry sources" have seen the actual contract between SQ and Airbus? Given that those same said individuals were the ones recently stating just how strained the relationship between the two companies had become, I'd say not too many, if any. Airbus would not publish what I linked to without SQs authority.

I'm right, they're wrong. My opinion and I stand by it.

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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:48 pm

Airbus did a good job for the last few years, and they will stay in the lead for a while yet. But the tide is now turning....thanks to the 787.....  devil 
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 27):
No airlines have announced any cancellations formally, although industry speculation mounts on the exact status of orders by Malaysia Airlines and Thai Airways.

From a FI article,

Thai has six A380s on firm order, but Apinan said first deliveries to the Star Alliance carrier have only been pushed back by around a month, to early in 2009, compared with six or seven months for first operators Singapore Airlines, Emirates and Qantas Airways.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...s+up+A350+and+787+evaluations.html

IIRC earlier reports spoke about Airbus having asked MH to delay deliveries.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 25):
Balanced from you. Is that a joke?

 relieved  You're back.
Few questions to you. Why did you delete yourself at the end of June? Why coming back under a different username?






Quoting Halibut (Reply 23):
You are forgetting the compensation/penalties for the multiple A380 delays .

SIA: Well John you owe me compensation for the delay of my A380's.
JOHN: I sure do sir. As we've agreed on the formula to calculate late penaltys 5 years ago when you signed the order, I owe you US$ 20 million. I'll deduct it from the invoice when the first A380 gets delivered.
SIA: Right (anger in his voice) and you think I wont order any additional A380's?
JOHN:Not sure why you said that sir.
SIA: I come here to talk about compensation and you want to send me of with US$ 20 million. I demand the right to order additional A380's (getting very angry now) ON TOP OF THE US$ 20 MILLION.
JOHN: Sure sir. Customer is king at Airbus. How many would you like?
SIA: (relieved) 9 please.
JOHN: No problem Sir. Is there anything else I can do for you...
SIA: You've got a signed picture for my daughter, and an Airbus bumpersticker for my son?
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art
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 29):
Airbus did a good job for the last few years, and they will stay in the lead for a while yet. But the tide is now turning....thanks to the 787.....

I think you are right as we speak today. A few unknowns are down the line though, in my opinion. How good will the A320E turn out to be? Will the A350XWB, 748, A380 sell well? Will the 787 come together smoothly? When will Y1 be announced and how will that affect A320E sales? etc etc

Whatever happens, A and B have already got a lot of orders to turn into metal/composite over the coming years. I guess they will both be increasing production year on year for some time.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
SIA: Well John you owe me compensation for the delay of my A380's.
JOHN: I sure do sir. As we've agreed on the formula to calculate late penaltys 5 years ago when you signed the order, I owe you US$ 20 million. I'll deduct it from the invoice when the first A380 gets delivered.
SIA: Right (anger in his voice) and you think I wont order any additional A380's?
JOHN:Not sure why you said that sir.
SIA: I come here to talk about compensation and you want to send me of with US$ 20 million. I demand the right to order additional A380's (getting very angry now) ON TOP OF THE US$ 20 MILLION.
JOHN: Sure sir. Customer is king at Airbus. How many would you like?
SIA: (relieved) 9 please.
JOHN: No problem Sir. Is there anything else I can do for you...
SIA: You've got a signed picture for my daughter, and an Airbus bumpersticker for my son?

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
SIA: You've got a signed picture for my daughter, and an Airbus bumpersticker for my son?

Who in their right mind except maybe Manni, Keesje and Johnny would want a signed picture of Leahy?  duck 
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coa747
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:27 am

Airbus delivering more aircraft that Boeing is no surprise we have known this would be the case since the first of the year. However if they loose the sales battle for several years then that will translate directly into fewer deliveries so I fail to see how the number of sales isn't as important as the number of aircraft you deliver.

As for the problems at Airbus being all PR that is almost laughable. How about the billions from the A380 delays coupled with infighting and then an unbalanced product offering with only one model selling in any significant numbers. But yeah I guess that is all PR isn't it.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:28 am

When some of the carriers ordered the A380, they may very well have deliberately chosen delivery dates years after EIS. And as such, Airbus would have available delivery slots closer to EIS, but those slots may well be held by current customers (like SQ evidently does).

They might want to extract all the equity they can out of their 747s before they replace them. They might be waiting for completion of infrastructure improvements at their target airports that were not expected to be completed till post-2010. They might want to have let SQ and QF "work out the bugs" and receive planes that have incorporated the "latest spec", so to speak. They might have future alliance or codeshare plans that could expand traffic on certain routes beyond a 747's capacity.

So I see no reason at this time to dispute PanAm_DC10's and Airbus' statement that SQ's new A380s will come from delivery slots that remained available in the "near" term as Airbus may very well have some "openings", even with the projected delivery delays impacting those slots.

And yes, I know Leahy has stated that he "could sell more A380s now if I had the slots", but that could very well mean that if airlines like SQ had not held those earlier delivery slots, Leahy could have sold them. It could even mean some "wild card" A380 customers (like UA or NW to use an extreme case) could want A380s post-2010, but with many of the orders slated for delivery at that time, there were no slots available post-2010, just pre-2010, and that was too early for those carriers...
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 12):
However , it is possible that " just like last year " , Boeing may have fewer deliveries - But , receive the majority of the market in terms of dollar value .

So what about Dollar value... all the dollar does recently is devalue..

however in terms of Euro's it's more about the amount of profit you make, not the amount of cash you turn by selling your rear end !

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 12):

Of course Boeing will. Even with the hard working EU taxpayer bailing out the 350 development write off.

And the US Tax payer paying for non-materialising military contracts with Civil development spin offs.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 28):
Just how many of those "analysts/industry sources" have seen the actual contract between SQ and Airbus?

Don't know. Nevertheless, I don't think it's necessarily specious for the "anaylsts" to question how delivery slots "guaranteed by unexercised options" remained available to SQ in the face of competing firm orders with ostensibly stronger legal/contractual claims to the slots in question, once a production shortfall of 22-31 units through 2009 became a reality after the second program delay, and it was necessary to rejigger the remaining delivery slots among the various customers.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 28):
Airbus would not publish what I linked to without SQs authority.

I'm not sure what SQ would necessarily object to in the Airbus version of events, as it portrays SQ as having negotiated an option deal back in 2001 with ostensibly the most liberal terms in favor of an option-holder in the history of commercial aviation. Nonetheless, SQ seems shy about staking claim to such negotiating prowess in their own press release, which suggests a somewhat more involved scenario.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 36):
I'm not sure what SQ would necessarily object to in the Airbus version of events, as it portrays SQ as having negotiated an option deal back in 2001 with ostensibly the most liberal terms in favor of an option-holder in the history of commercial aviation. Nonetheless, SQ seems shy about staking claim to such negotiating prowess in their own press release, which suggests a somewhat more involved scenario.

If they have indeed "negotiated an option deal...with ostensibly the most liberal terms in favor of an option-holder in the history of commercial aviation", might they not want to let the details of such a deal out into the open, so as to prevent their competitors from negotiating equally liberal - if not even more liberal - deals themselves, thereby undermining the competitive advantages SQ's own liberal deal gives them?  Smile
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
That's because the 'problems' at Airbus have been predominantly media-related actually.

Oh yes, the media is responsible for the three announced delays on the A380 project. It was the media that screwed up the wiring harnesses. They are also responsible for the dysfunctional management structure and shakeup.  sarcastic 

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
And yes, I know Leahy has stated that he "could sell more A380s now if I had the slots",

That was just spin, and very bad spin at that.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 16):
The 340 is dead, even though Leahy claims the market still exists.

With the HGW version in production, how can this be completely true?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 37):
If they have indeed "negotiated an option deal...with ostensibly the most liberal terms in favor of an option-holder in the history of commercial aviation", might they not want to let the details of such a deal out into the open, so as to prevent their competitors from negotiating equally liberal - if not even more liberal - deals themselves, thereby undermining the competitive advantages SQ's own liberal deal gives them?

Cat's out of the bag. The "competition" already knows SQ is able to obtain six additional delivery slots during a period of production shortfall. That circumstance can only arise out of either having an absolute right to certain delivery slots as an option-holder, which seems unprecedented in modern practice, or the ability to assume another customer's place in the queue because of an order cancellation and/or deferral. Whichever scenario is actually the case should be clear in short order; consequently, any remaining mystery in the minds of competitors seems of little or no commercial value.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
cobra27
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
but the U.S. company is expected to take more orders for the first time in six years.

Bourecracy. Clearly last year had Boeing a bigger business.
 
art
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
And yes, I know Leahy has stated that he "could sell more A380s now if I had the slots", but that could very well mean that if airlines like SQ had not held those earlier delivery slots, Leahy could have sold them. It could even mean some "wild card" A380 customers (like UA or NW to use an extreme case) could want A380s post-2010, but with many of the orders slated for delivery at that time, there were no slots available post-2010, just pre-2010, and that was too early for those carriers...

Interesting assessment.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 38):
the media... are also responsible for the dysfunctional management structure and shakeup.

Perhaps they are in a way. If the media (European financial media, I guess) had kept hammering away against the existing setup, suggesting Airbus should instead look for merit, not nationality, when appointing its senior management, might it not have changed by now?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 39):
With the HGW version in production, how can this be completely true?

While current A340 operators may continue to wish to acquire additional frames (even though the 777 and 787 offer better economics) due to conversion and training costs, once the A350-900 and A350-1000 enter service, I can't see any more A340s being sold as you can "stay in the family" while getting better economics.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 40):
That circumstance can only arise out of either having an absolute right to certain delivery slots as an option-holder, which seems unprecedented in modern practice...

I admit I am pretty ignorant about how, exactly, delivery slots have been optioned on current and past programs. That being said, I am honestly interested in why you consider SQ securing dedicated delivery slots for their options to be "unprecedented"?

I wonder if QF, in announcing 20 "confirmed options" for the 787, themselves did not "purchase" 20 delivery slots over a certain period of time so they can choose which model they want and get it expediciously.

Getting back to SQ, I think they might be starting to find themselves somewhat between a rock and a hard place. Newer long-range aircraft (772LR/773ER/A345/A346) are allowing airlines to bypass SIN as a natural "transfer point" when connecting the west coast of North and South America to Africa and Europe to Australia. And new entrants into these markets (especially EK) have added large amounts of capacity as well as opened new "transfer points" in areas like DXB and drawn off SIN traffic. Plus some "traditional transfer points" like HKG have expanded, also drawing traffic away from SIN.

SQ might very well feel that their best way to compete against all these new competeing airlines and "transfer points" is to consolidate and expand their existing traffic whilst improving the product. And the A380 strikes me as a pretty good way to do both, thanks to it's larger size allowing more capacity both per-flight and overall as well as extra space and amenities to make travel more comfortable - especially for the high-value premium cabin traveller.

As such, they might have felt that 10 planes would not be enough to meet their needs under this plan. I don't recall when EK placed their mega-order, but if they were talking about scores of frames when SQ was in negotiations, SQ might very well have wanted "dedicated options" so that they could expand quickly and try and pre-empt airlines like EK (or even QF/VS on the "Kangaroo Route") and try and lock-in customers to their airline as early as possible.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 24):
Thank you for posting that sir [Sabenapilot] as it does underpin, to a degree, what I was trying to express with my opinion in my previous post.

It was ment to.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 28):
I'm right, they're wrong.

You are.
On this site most people post more than they know, yet some know more than they (may) post.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 24):

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 21):
this will be dealt with in a strict business-like manner

Of that there is no doubt because it only involves the 2 companies you referred to, Airbus and SQ.

Indeed.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 24):
No cancellation nor deferral has anything to do with the "twist" to the order which I referred to and to which Sabenapilot responded to.

It's a simple 2-party agreement, rather than the much rumoured 3-party agreement which the 'analysts' said might be involved, hence me saying the 'twist' to the order is not spectacular and strictly business for both Airbus and SQ.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 28):
Just how many of those "analysts/industry sources" have seen the actual contract between SQ and Airbus? Given that those same said individuals were the ones recently stating just how strained the relationship between the two companies had become, I'd say not too many, if any.

Knowing what I know, I dare to say many analysts we read in the popular press have no better clue of the inside stories of Airbus than the average A.netter and reading their 'professional opinions' from a somewhat privileged position of being able to check some of it first hand, their professional opinions are often pure A.net gossip. There happens to be an interesting interaction between this site and some analysts BTW and strangely enough it is not a one-way interaction.
 
2wingtips
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
You're back.
Few questions to you. Why did you delete yourself at the end of June? Why coming back under a different username?

And I'm supposed to know what you are talking about
 Confused
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 43):
I admit I am pretty ignorant about how, exactly, delivery slots have been optioned on current and past programs. That being said, I am honestly interested in why you consider SQ securing dedicated delivery slots for their options to be "unprecedented"?

The OEMs learned long ago that granting option-holders an absolute right to delivery slots until the option expired was a bad idea, because the risk of valuable delivery slots never being taken-up by option-holders or any other customers was unacceptably high. Therefore, under modern practice (the last 20-25 years), the OEMs have almost uniformly structured deals whereby option holders do not hold an absolute right to specific production/delivery slots, but rather have a right of first refusal on them. Thus, in the case where there is a competing firm order(s) for an option-holder's putative slot(s), either the option-holder exercises its option and firms its order in response to a bonafide alternative offer to secure the slot(s) in question, or it declines to act and accepts a later slot(s).

This type of contractual arrangement makes particularly good sense in the case of the A380 program, where production capacity is somewhat limited (48 per year by 2009 before the second program delay). That's why knowledgeable people in the industry suspected that Mr. Leahy's boast last year, to which you alluded earlier, that he could sell thirty more A380's immediately, but for the lack of production/delivery slots ostensibly being held open to cover potential orders from option-holders exercising their options, was likely nothing more than mere sales puffing to rationalize otherwise mediocre sales.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:03 am

Got it, Leelaw. Thanks!
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 20

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 44):
On this site most people post more than they know

No doubt, the most fervent of the OEM toadies on A.net are more than willing to advance all manner of fanciful theories and offer apocryphal yarns to reinforce/justify their own pollyanish notions about their favorite OEM. IMO, the common hallmarks of this "A.net Onnisciente" are the constant claims to having superior insight into what is "actually" newsworthy than the mainstream and trade news organizations reporting on this industry; an uncanny talent to identify which journalists, media outlets, and "industry analysts" harbor biases against their favorite OEM; and whose interpretation and analysis of any news story reporting on their preferred OEM invariably redounds in its favor.

[Edited 2006-08-10 09:50:31]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Airbus Is On Track For Record Deliveries In 2006

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 40):
That circumstance can only arise out of either having an absolute right to certain delivery slots as an option-holder,

Which SQ have affirmed they have as below

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 27):
The decision to order nine more A380s comes after extensive discussions with Airbus about delivery positions, as well as existing and forward contractual obligations...

They came from the existing agreement, 5 years on and finally some of the details of the conditions of the launch order SQ secured are entering the public domain.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 40):
which seems unprecedented in modern practice

It would appear a precedent has been set as per your definition.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 40):
or the ability to assume another customer's place in the queue because of an order cancellation and/or deferral

So after the recent Corporate Governance issues which have surrounded Airbus both them and SQ have released statements referring to their original 2001 agreement? No sir, SQ have not taken any third party cancellations or deferrals. Consequently neither would issue a statement to the contrary whilst Airbus is under intense Regulatory scrutiny.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 48):
Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 44):
On this site most people post more than they know

Now let's quote Sabenapilots full sentence

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 44):
On this site most people post more than they know, yet some know more than they (may) post.

Now that's quoted in it's proper context, with respect, it basically renders the rest of your statement redundant. We could keep going on, however, I'll stand by my opinion and if it differs to yours that, in no way, is meant to detract from the fact that I appreciate the discussion we have had thus far nor does it mean that I do not value your opinion.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible

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