dptMAN
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:49 am

Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:48 am

Considering AA,CO and soon NW will be operating their B757 aircraft accross the Atlantic to Europe. So why no UA 757-200 services, with their Premium Services i bet UA could make this work if they wished. Could UA make 757 ops across the Atlantic or wouldnt it suit their stratigies?
Thoughts
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting DptMAN (Thread starter):
Thoughts

Which routes do you think would work for them?
International Homo of Mystery
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7069
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:51 am

If they restarted JFK-LHR, a 757 would be good for this route.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
dptMAN
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:52 am

Possibly IAD-DUB/SNN/MAN also, do UA have a base in BOS? If so possibly BOS-MAN after AA drop the route in the winter. With the sucess of the BD service (obviously not the 757 leased from Icelandic) although BDs A330 service was popular. If UA use their Premium service on routes with their 757s accross the Atlantic eg. offer PTVs not currently covered by AA and CO. They could lead in 757 Atlantic ops.
 
B742
Posts: 3559
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
If they restarted JFK-LHR, a 757 would be good for this route.

I agree, also IAD-MAN would be great, in codeshare with BD  Smile

Rob!  wave 
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:00 am

It is interesting to see the thought of using PS configured 757s across the Atlantic. It would almost be like the Privatair 737 flights. The problem with the PS planes though is that the first class on those is comparable to business class on most transatlantic airlines.

Maybe there are some routes where this could work though. I am in particular thinking of Germany. Low yielding destinations in the UK don't make sense at all. There are some smaller cities in Germany that might be able to support a 757 from United. I can think that maybe Geneva, Hamburg, Stuttgart or Dusseldorf could work. These cities don't have much transatlantic service. However UA doesn't seem to be the type of airline to offer service like that.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 3):
Possibly IAD-DUB/SNN/MAN

I believe for those routes that a p.s.-configured 757 would be far too low of a density to make them worthwhile.
International Homo of Mystery
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting DptMAN (Thread starter):
Considering AA,CO and soon NW will be operating their B757 aircraft accross the Atlantic to Europe.

AA hasn't had much successs with trans-Atlantic 757s. Both routes are ending this year. The problem wasn't that the flights didn't make money, but that they had no premium seats to sell. CO fits their trans-Atlantic 757s in a proper international configuration. Jury is still out on US Airways, since their 757 service to Europe is still very new.
a.
 
panaman
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 1999 2:24 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:11 am

Since everyone else does it, why does UA have to? They have plenty of other things todo besides listening to a.net plan its flights.
Sorry I moved from SXM, looking for a new house on Anguilla now!
 
dptMAN
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
AA hasn't had much successs with trans-Atlantic 757s. Both routes are ending this year.

Fair point, however i was only highlighting current B757 Atlantic Ops. What if UA configured some 757s simular to that of CO however with better IFE eg. PTVs maybe then it will be worthwhile offering a quality service from IAD-MAN/DUB/SNN etc. I think im confussed as to what the PS is what is the config on the PS 757 aircraft?

dptMAN
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:13 am

UA does not need to put another fleet type across the atlantic and they are stuck with a stagnant fleet for another 2-3 years per all their releases plus running high load factors and a profit with their current structure. So aside from a.nutters who like to think 'what if' ....what economic reason would they have?
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 9):
PTVs maybe then it will be worthwhile offering a quality service from IAD-MAN/DUB/SNN etc.

If UA were to adopt a premium service across the Atlantic, I would think they would pick higher-yielding markets than where they'd have to compete with the low fares offered by EI.

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 9):
I think im confussed as to what the PS is what is the config on the PS 757 aircraft?

12F/26C/72Y+

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Uni...ted_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_PS.php
International Homo of Mystery
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:30 am

I really don´t like the "757 over the atlantic" trend, I hope this idea doesn´t extend to more airlines.  Sad
For me, crossing the Atlantic is something really special and always has been tied with widebodies.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
swank300
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:37 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:33 am

I, myself, don't want to fly a B757 across the atlantic. I much prefer their larger two aisle planes such as the 767 ER's and their 777's. Anyway they use their 757's for their packed flights from one business hub to another corporate yield flights like lga-ord and Iad-lax.
 
sjsu2sjcAA777
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:26 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:46 am

United's 757's are not all ETOPS and the one's that are ETOPS are used for west coast Hawaii flights, so they really don't have any ETOPS 757 to spare for flights across the pond.
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 9):
What if UA configured some 757s simular to that of CO however with better IFE eg. PTVs

CO's Bus/first service now has AVOD and the service is excellent.
 
AirEMS
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 6:34 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:00 am

Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:05 am

A few months ago, at the time rumors were starting of UA dropping JFK-LHR/NRT, a few people brought up the possibility of p.s. 757 JFK-LHR service. But with UA selling their rights to DL, it seems p.s. 757 JFK-LHR definitely isn't happening.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:20 am

A few reasons why we do not see UA 757s across the Atlantic:

1. UA has a large fleet of 763/772/744 aircraft......making 757 operations unneccessary. While CO was been very successful with 757s on transatlantic flights, and the 757s are interesting on routes to/from smaller cities, dont forget that CO went with the 757 because it had little choice......CO has a limited 767/777 fleet that it dedicated to CO's longest range and highest demand routes. UA, on the other hand, has a huge number of widebody aircraft.

2. UA only flies to key European destination......there is a lot of focus on Heathrow which is all about widebodies and FRA due to Star Alliance connections......outside of LHR and FRA, UA does not have a huge European network and the routes that UA does fly warrants larger aircraft.

3. UA, over the years, has tried several European routes that have been discontinued and its unlikely that further European exapansion is a priority at UA. Two reasons: first, UA has a very very strong partner in LH and second, UA continues to be short on longhaul airplanes (including 757s which are used extensively on Hawaiian services) making any European expansion possible.

4. Unlike DL, AA, US, and CO.......UA has a huge Pacific network and UA seems to think 9and proabably rightly so) that the key to its future success is in the Pacific and Asian markets, thus, UA is not as focused on transatlantic sservices as some of the other US carriers.
 
LH417AF025
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:26 am

IAD-MAD would cause me to piss myself in excitement...


it has been gone WAY too long.
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:41 am

I really just don't understand the issues here -- yes, a 757 can easily be ETOPS certified - yes, a 757 can have an enhanced first class, and yes, a 757 can have entertainment - if the airline chooses, and that's the key - does the airline want to attract a first class person, then, the first class area gets the cookie -- does the airline want to attract lower cost travellers, then the airline makes that decision

for those of us travelling, it is equally simple - do we require a lay flat first class seat because of business the next day at our destination? Do we need a first class meal, i.e, hot chicken, or can we sit in coach, fall asleep and eat cold chicken????

those of us who travel all the time fall asleep as soon as we're on a plane, nor do we expect gourmet meals (pre cooked/pre frozen/ pre prepared - that's all we get) -- best thing about first class is 'real nuts' i.e. , cashews, but for those of us on any kind of restricted diet, that doesn't even count

So, let us fall asleep peacefully - upright/sitting/lieing down - offer us basic sustanence for food, and let us get to where we have to go
 
ualcsr
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 17):
But with UA selling their rights to DL

UA did not sell their JFK-LHR route to DL. They sold their JFK-London route, but DL cannot fly into LHR and will fly into LGW. Big difference.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
UA has a huge Pacific network and UA seems to think 9and proabably rightly so) that the key to its future success is in the Pacific and Asian markets, thus, UA is not as focused on transatlantic sservices as some of the other US carriers.

Agree, and I think it's the right strategy. UA has limited competition (only NW compares) from US airlines across the Pacific while the Atlantic market is already crowded with CO, AA and now DL. Although I could see some minor expansion from UA across the Atlantic, I tend to agree with both UA's and AA's strategy of placing their resources where they can reap proven benefits (Asia, Latin America respectively) rather than DL's riskier strategy of expansion. Third quarter results for all the legacies should be really interesting as I think they will be better barometers of which strategies are working and which aren't.
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 16):
Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?

Yes ! It can be. In fact some 757´s have been crossing the atlantic a long time ago and the winglets on that plane are quite new.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:39 pm

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 16):
Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?

British Airways, American, TWA, and Continental have all had regularly scheduled transatlantic flights with the 757 without winglets. Additionally many charter carriers operate transtlantic flights on 757s, although some make fuel stops on the longer flights or if they are using the 757-300.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
OB1504
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Bongo (Reply 12):
For me, crossing the Atlantic is something really special and always has been tied with widebodies.

For the record, the first transatlantic flights were done by narrow-body props, and then narrow-body 707s, DC-8s, and Comets. It wasn't until the 1970s when the 747, DC-10, and L-1011 were developed that transatlantic journeys became wide-body territory. So, really, it's mostly been tied with narrow-bodies.

Going back to the topic at hand, another reason why I think that UA flying 757s across the pond wouldn't work out is because of the position of their main East Coast hub. Unlike BOS or JFK for AA, or EWR for CO, IAD's a bit further down the coast, and since some transatlantic crossings are pushing the range for AA and CO's 757s, I doubt there are many routes UA can try from IAD. In addition, their PW-powered 757s don't offer the same performance as AA and CO's RR-powered equipment.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
AA hasn't had much successs with trans-Atlantic 757s. Both routes are ending this year. The problem wasn't that the flights didn't make money, but that they had no premium seats to sell. CO fits their trans-Atlantic 757s in a proper international configuration. Jury is still out on US Airways, since their 757 service to Europe is still very new.

NW learned there - and are fitting their 757s for ETOPS with new, international interiors with propper premium seats.

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 16):
Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?

Sure. The winglets just let you push the destinations a bit further apart.


UA isn't doing international with the 757s because they have plenty of domestic routes for them, and no shortage of widebodies (767s esp) for routes they might use a 757 on, and honestly, who would rather cross the atlantic in a 757, rather than a 767?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
AADC10
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:18 pm

I think UA is trying to stay away from long thin routes. It has the key LHR slots and several other major destinations, but they will drop routes that cannot keep a 772 filled. I would like to see IAD-MXP return however.

CO is shut out of LHR so they fly to smaller destinations in Europe. They have to use the 757s because they only have around 44 widebodies, while UA has around 105, half of which are 772s plus 30 774s.

The 757 also has a higher cost per seat than the 777, which is being amplified by rising fuel costs.
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:35 pm

Three words: Pratt and Whitney.

UA has them on their 757 fleet, other airlines flying transatlantic with the 757 don't.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
If they restarted JFK-LHR, a 757 would be good for this route.

p.s. might work but the lack of utilization would multiply the CASM issue

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 3):
Possibly IAD-DUB/SNN/MAN also, do UA have a base in BOS?

They do have a crew base in BOS but Dublin, Shannon and Manchester need more density.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
Geneva

Not in Germany, nor is it German speaking  Wink

Quoting Sjsu2sjcaa777 (Reply 14):
United's 757's are not all ETOPS and the one's that are ETOPS are used for west coast Hawaii flights, so they really don't have any ETOPS 757 to spare for flights across the pond.

That is not really a difficult issue.

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 16):
Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?

Absolutely, they have been for years

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 25):
NW learned there - and are fitting their 757s for ETOPS with new, international interiors with propper premium seats

Those 2037 engines are going to give them fits

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 27):
Three words: Pratt and Whitney.

UA has them on their 757 fleet, other airlines flying transatlantic with the 757 don't.

Three more words: Trans World Airlines

TWA's 757s were PW powered and they were among the first to go Transatlantic.

You are, however, partially correct. The vast majority of the United 757 fleet (those except for the subfleet of 2040 powered birds that fly LAX/SFO-HNL/OGG/LIH/KOA under ETOPS 138 rules) are powered by the PW2037. As such, they are only certified to 235,000 or so pounds, 20,000 less than those powered by 2040/43 or RB211s can be. This means that the UA birds would pretty much be limited to Scotland/Northern England and have a harder time getting off shorter runways.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Eirules
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 3):
Possibly IAD-DUB/SNN/MAN



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
If UA were to adopt a premium service across the Atlantic, I would think they would pick higher-yielding markets than where they'd have to compete with the low fares offered by EI

EI dont fly to IAD so UA would have that route all to themselves from DUB. US fly to PHL during the summer and AFAIK they have no issues filling that 762 so surely UA as they only carrier on the route could fill DUB-IAD with a 757 4 or 5 times a week
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:34 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
The problem with the PS planes though is that the first class on those is comparable to business class on most transatlantic airlines.

Call it 'ExecBusiness' or something
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 30):
Call it 'ExecBusiness' or something

Then what do you call their business class on those flights?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 21):
UA did not sell their JFK-LHR route to DL. They sold their JFK-London route, but DL cannot fly into LHR and will fly into LGW. Big difference.

 Yeah sure

You're mis-quoting me on something I never said. I did not say UA was selling DL JFK-LHR, and in fact I did not even say JFK-LGW. All I said was

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 17):
But with UA selling their rights to DL

Keyword: rights. UA is selling DL the RIGHT--the right to fly to London from New York. And since UA is selling that right and will no longer have JFK-London rights, it stands that UA 757 p.s. JFK-LHR isn't going to happen--which was the whole point of my post.

All of this could, I presume, be undermined if Open Skies comes about.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:00 pm

I think US also use their 757s accross the pond ??
not too sure...

Joe
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:15 am

Since CO's 762's carry a similar number of pax as the 752's why didn't they (or don't they) simply order more 762's to fly across the pond?
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
OB1504
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 34):
Since CO's 762's carry a similar number of pax as the 752's why didn't they (or don't they) simply order more 762's to fly across the pond?

I suppose that they had 757s avaliable and that they offered better economics.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 34):
Since CO's 762's carry a similar number of pax as the 752's why didn't they (or don't they) simply order more 762's to fly across the pond?

767-200ERs are far more expensive to operate than 752s.....they use much more fuel and are heavier airplanes, 762s are also more expensive to purchase than 752s.

CO purchased ten 762s for very specific routes that require the range of the 762 and have high J class demand (notice that the 762 has 25 J seats while the 752 has only 16 J seats)........think of the 762ER as CO's ""biz jet"".
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Then what do you call their business class on those flights?

Ok lets call the following:
Y+ = "PremiumTraveller"
J = "ExecutiveTraveller"
F = "BusinessPlus"

Something along those lines
Something tells me it isn't happening...
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 35):
I suppose that they had 757s avaliable and that they offered better economics.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
767-200ERs are far more expensive to operate than 752s.....they use much more fuel and are heavier airplanes, 762s are also more expensive to purchase than 752s.

CO purchased ten 762s for very specific routes that require the range of the 762 and have high J class demand (notice that the 762 has 25 J seats while the 752 has only 16 J seats)........think of the 762ER as CO's ""biz jet"".

Makes sense.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2107
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 25):
UA isn't doing international with the 757s because they have plenty of domestic routes for them, and no shortage of widebodies (767s esp) for routes they might use a 757 on, and honestly, who would rather cross the atlantic in a 757, rather than a 767?

Exactly...Christ, the thought of being stuck on a narrow body for about 7 hours makes me depressed. Give me a wide body any day.

UA is doing just fine on their Transatalntic ops at the moment, they are the last airline you will see flying 757's over the pond.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 27):
UA has them on their 757 fleet, other airlines flying transatlantic with the 757 don't.

NW is going to be sending PW powered 757s across the pond - from DTW no less. The PW power is not the reason, it's just coincidence AA, CO, and US have RR and were the first 3 to start transatlantic service with the 757.

That said, I'd go out of my way to get on to a 767 or A330 to cross the pond. CO's EWR-ARN is over 8 hours gate to gate. 8 hours in a 757 is just bad. Even on 6 hour transcontinental flights, it's a bit much.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 24):
For the record, the first transatlantic flights were done by narrow-body props, and then narrow-body 707s, DC-8s, and Comets

OB1504:
That why I said "For me". Because my first transatlantic flight was in 1981 in a DC10, since then... I´ve been flying to Europe on 777, DC10, A340 and 747´s.

[Edited 2006-08-10 18:39:21]
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 41):
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 24):
For the record, the first transatlantic flights were done by narrow-body props, and then narrow-body 707s, DC-8s, and Comets

OB1504:
That why I said "For me". Because my first transatlantic flight was in 1981 in a DC10, since then... I´ve been flying to Europe on 777, DC10 and 747´s.

Well, don't feel bad. My first time crossing the pond was in 1991 - in a 767-200ER from PHL-CDG. I remember being amazed how big the airplane was inside, lol.

Back in the days you crossed the atlantic in 707's and DC-8s, they were not configured for high density the way an AA 757 is, for instance. Then again, air travel was glamourous back then as well. In 1966, you could fly across the pond in a 707, configured for maybe 150 people, get fed a full meal, and be surrounded by tastefully well dressed people. In 2006 you can cross the atlantic in a 757 configured for 202, are lucky to get a bag of pretzels, and end up sitting next to a smelly guy in a beater whose gut is invading your seat....
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
Geneva

Not in Germany, nor is it German speaking

I'm aware that Geneva is in Switzerland, but it might work along the lines of Dusseldorf, Stuttgart or Hamburg as a route that can sustain a smaller plane like a premium configured 757.

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 37):
Ok lets call the following:
Y+ = "PremiumTraveller"
J = "ExecutiveTraveller"
F = "BusinessPlus"

Ok you created names, but how are you going to price it. Y+ could be priced as economy. The current business could have to be priced at the same as regular business class since it is essentially the same as all other United Business classes, so it would create problems if they weren't priced and marketed the same. But what to do for first class? It isn't really good enough to be compared to regular United first or competing products, so it would have to be a new category or it would have to just be given to special business class travelers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 43):
Ok you created names, but how are you going to price it. Y+ could be priced as economy.

I'm not pretending to be an Armchair CEO here, and I have no idea how it would work logistically.
If it was on a high yielf JFK-LHR route, then a smaller 752 could carry business oriented passengers, and perhaps lift some of the high paying 70 or so J class out of a few 744s and A340s.
I know it would work, because I've travelled on the privatair service into NY before out of Europe, and they were always full, yet the tickets were not any more expensive than a similar service on another airline.
Obviously marketing would be a problem, but hey, thats what PR agencys are for, right?
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
panam330
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 26):
CO is shut out of LHR so they fly to smaller destinations in Europe.

That is most certainly NOT why they fly to smaller destinations. What would their reasoning be for flying to places like OSL and TXL? Oh, right- passengers that don't live in London. Come on now.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 26):
The 757 also has a higher cost per seat than the 777, which is being amplified by rising fuel costs.

The 757 also has quite a low CASM. In fact, the 757-300 has the lowest CASM of any narrowbody aircraft today. If the CASM of the 757-200 was too high, they certainly wouldn't be putting them on long, thin routes like they do.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 34):
Since CO's 762's carry a similar number of pax as the 752's why didn't they (or don't they) simply order more 762's to fly across the pond?

Price. 767-200s are expensive birds when compared to a 757-200, and CO ordered the 762s primarily for the premium seats. To add to what DutchJet said, they're also used on cargo-heavy routes.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 37):
Ok lets call the following:
Y+ = "PremiumTraveller"
J = "ExecutiveTraveller"
F = "BusinessPlus"

Something along those lines
Something tells me it isn't happening...

You then completely dilute a product United has worked hard to rebuild

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
CO purchased ten 762s for very specific routes that require the range of the 762 and have high J class demand (notice that the 762 has 25 J seats while the 752 has only 16 J seats)........think of the 762ER as CO's ""biz jet"".

Cargo too

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 40):
NW is going to be sending PW powered 757s across the pond - from DTW no less.

And they are going to have a hell of a time with it.

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 45):
In fact, the 757-300 has the lowest CASM of any narrowbody aircraft today.

Any narrowbody ever  Wink

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 45):
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 26):
CO is shut out of LHR so they fly to smaller destinations in Europe.

That is most certainly NOT why they fly to smaller destinations. What would their reasoning be for flying to places like OSL and TXL? Oh, right- passengers that don't live in London. Come on now.

Absolutely correct. Further, CO flies 2 777s a day on IAH-LGW, 1 777 and 2 752s on EWR-LGW and 1 summer 752 on CLE-LGW. They definately don't skimp on London service.

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 45):
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 26):
The 757 also has a higher cost per seat than the 777, which is being amplified by rising fuel costs.

The 757 also has quite a low CASM. In fact, the 757-300 has the lowest CASM of any narrowbody aircraft today. If the CASM of the 757-200 was too high, they certainly wouldn't be putting them on long, thin routes like they do.

To add to the point abou the lower CASM, fuel is only one componant of CASM. Another major componant is crewing costs, which are similar and usually even less on the 757 than on the 777, which remain stable as fuel prices change. That means that as fuel goes up, the overall trip cost becomes a greater part of the equation and the smaller, cheaper aircraft becomes more attractive.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
You then completely dilute a product United has worked hard to rebuild

I'm not trying to be an Armchair CEO.
I'm just reliving stuff thats worked for other airlines into United
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.