bnatraveler
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TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:14 pm

http://www.continental.com/web/en-us...ent/news/travelnoticesecurity.aspx

Basically, no dopp kits on domestic flights. RIDICULOUS!

And from the UK -- no more ipods, laptops, etc?

[edited to fix spelling]

[Edited 2006-08-10 15:44:03]
 
sulman
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:27 pm

Climate we live in, I'm afraid. I prefer a little bit of inconvenience to sailing downwind 37000ft sans aircraft.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
killjoy
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting Bnatraveler (Thread starter):
Basically, no dopp kits on domestic flights. REDICULOUS!

Wasn't there enough ridiculous whining in the other thread already?

Quoting Bnatraveler (Thread starter):
And from the UK -- no more ipods

Does this mean I can take my Creative MuVo? They do say laptop instead of Powerbook, so that conclusion would make sense. Maybe we should all call them and ask...
 
flyinryan99
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:29 pm

Are airlines waiving their 2 checked bag rules?? If not, $$$ for the airlines.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:33 pm

So now we will have to buy toothpaste and mouthwash when out of town if we carry a bag onboard so looks like ramp folks are gonna be getting much more luggage and we can close all the overhead....faster boarding for sure! So who is going to pay for the broken laptops that are now going to be checked as luggage when you open them up and they don't work? That will be the next thing to go out of the carry on list as it has in the UK today.

[Edited 2006-08-10 15:34:19]
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
pensacolaguy
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Bnatraveler (Thread starter):
And from the UK -- no more ipods, laptops, etc?

No more camera's?

NO LIQUIDS OR GELS OF ANY KIND WILL BE PERMITTED IN CARRY-ON BAGGAGE. ITEMS MUST BE IN CHECKED BAGGAGE. This includes all beverages, shampoo, suntan lotion, creams, tooth paste, hair gel, and other items of similar consistency.

Lets hope you DON'T loose your checked baggage....
And loose all your hygiene/vacation items..

Why not just get rid of ALL "carry-on" baggage.
Get rid of overhead bins on all aircraft. Might save the airlines some cash.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:48 pm

I am still confused on how a sealed bottle of water can damange anything. At the baseball games down here, tou can bring a sealed bottle of water in, but if it is unsealed, you cannot. Why can't the TSA be civil and do this?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
sulman
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:49 pm

It's not really a big deal is it? Going without carry-on water or drinks (remember the nature of this particular threat) is not going to kill you. A major security threat has just been identified that features carry on items, so until it's all cleared up people will simply have to live with it. It's not hard.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 11):
I am still confused on how a sealed bottle of water can damange anything.

Because some explosives and flammables are clear fluids.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SafetyDude
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 11):
I am still confused on how a sealed bottle of water can damange anything. At the baseball games down here, tou can bring a sealed bottle of water in, but if it is unsealed, you cannot. Why can't the TSA be civil and do this?

It's rather easy to re-seal a bottle, or open a bottle without breaking the seal (by twisting the liner with the cap).

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:00 pm

sorry about my prev posts...the initial shock got to me. I am still pissed because of my traditions, and if the airlines lose my checked "carry on" bag, they'll hear it from me, but I'll get on with life.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
da man
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:04 pm

This is obsurd!
I guess I won't be flying to or from the UK for a while. I'm not trusting my laptop or iPod to my checked luggage.
War Eagle!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Sulman (Reply 13):
Going without carry-on water or drinks (remember the nature of this particular threat) is not going to kill you.

Clearly you have never travelled long haul. Without a bottle of water, you will die, because the stinge-bag airlines never give you any. Lets hope the airlines make up for depriving you of your hand luggage by at least giving you something to drink FOR FREE on board.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 22):
Without a bottle of water, you will die, because the stinge-bag airlines never give you any.

They do in Biz and First  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bmacleod
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everyt

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:25 pm

Well the terrorists are succeeding....bringing paranoia to TSAs. The Continental release says that you can't bring items you purchased inside the secure area onboard??  confused 

What's the sense in even having shops in the departure area now????
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting Da man (Reply 19):
This is obsurd!
I guess I won't be flying to or from the UK for a while. I'm not trusting my laptop or iPod to my checked luggage.

We won't miss you.  banghead 

If these aircraft had indeed been blown up, I don't think anyone would be complaining about the inconvnience - it would be seen as a necessity.
Face it folks, whether you want to be a part of it or not, there is a problem here and it has to be dealt with, iPods and Laptops be dammned. I'm going to Toronto this Sunday from MAN and I will happily leave my laptop at home and bring all my files on a USB pen drive.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:30 pm

I understand the no electronics. But would one book be too much to ask? Takes like 2 seconds to check if it's really a book.

Unless the next terrorist plot is based on taking down the plane with a thousand paper cuts.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:32 pm

Get over it people, it might be an inconvenient but if something does happen you'll be bitching how the TSA is useless coz it let something through security. Bottom line is this rule is probably here to stay so live with it or stay home.... Heck, drive your car to Hawaii instead of flying if you don't wanna be inconvenienced.  banghead 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 25):
They do in Biz and First

Oooh, get you - merchant banker !

:-P
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Dtw757
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:39 pm

What I'd like to know is....What happens onboard the airplane when you take out your bottle of water or coke that you bought airside or will you not be allowed to purchase them?
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
positiverate
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 34):
What I'd like to know is....What happens onboard the airplane when you take out your bottle of water or coke that you bought airside or will you not be allowed to purchase them?

As I understand it, you can purchase it and consume it in the terminal, just not onboarrd the plane. You have to dispose of it before baording.
 
flyinfroggie
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:47 pm

You know - I keep reading all of these posts about how inconvenienced everyone is with what's happened. But, from the tone in a lot of posts, it seems that people are pissed off at the airlines, TSA, airports, local governments, etc. Why don't we direct our anger and disgust at those individuals that are responsible for this? - the cowardly TERRORISTS that act like savages!

It appears that we are reacting to a real threat. In today's world, I would rather overreact than underreact. Once we have the opportunity to have some time to consider what's happened (and what didn't happen), I think that we'll be able to then put more realistic measures in place.

After the horrific events that happened on September 11, 2001 (I hate when people use the '9/11' term like a trendy catchphrase), we closed the airports completely in the United States for days in order to assess what had happened, and to put measures in place. I think that at this point, we should be thankful to those that continue to work so hard to keep us safe, and to do what we can to work with them - not against them.

That being said....

1) Airlines - Please provide at least water service on flights, and include some extra bottles now that we can't bring our own.
2) Flight Attendants - Please consider us thirsty people that may be in the back of the plane, too.
4) Baggage Handlers - Please treat our luggage like if it were your own, and not a football.
 
aal0616
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:51 pm

Due to flight cancellation, I find myself available today to catch up on errands, yard work or to read all the posts in the threads concerning today's events. I am deeply appalled at many of the posts complaining about the actions of the authorities. I am equally shocked at how much many of you apparently favor your material possessions over your lives.

It should be apparent from the gravity of the actions, and the obvious consequences and inconveniences, that the threat is quite serious and genuine. Perhaps those of you who are terribly concerned about your laptops, i-pods and beloved, permanently surgically attached cell phones should take a collective deep breath and buy a book at the airport and practice the quaint old notion of reading to pass the time.

As someone who feels like they walk around with a bulls-eye painted on them, I've fallen into the habit of looking closely at every person I can in a terminal, boarding area or onboard an aircraft. Perhaps this comes from nightmares about free falling in a piece of a fuselage that has been dismembered by an explosion at 35,000 feet, or having my throat cut with a box cutter. How paranoid of me. However, as I am not about to convert to radical Islam, my choices are to help defend western civilization as best I can in my own way, or surrender my way of life, family and homeland to hideous fanatics.

My material "stuff" is not as important to me as my life. I have also heard it suggested this morning by some pundits that we only have ourselves to blame for all of this because of the assertive way in which our western governments, particularly the US and the UK, are fighting the war on terror. So by offending militant Islam, we brought 9-11 upon ourselves, and now, by not appeasing the enemy, (excuse me, "having negotiations or a discussion, understanding their point of view, realizing its all our own fault, etc."), we have made it worse. Its all our own fault anyway, and now our incompetent authorities are compounding our problem by inconveniencing us.

We need to get a grip, face reality, bite the bullet and get on with our lives, business, pleasures and, yes, responsibilities to ourselves with a measure of determination that these monsters cannot intimidate or break us. We can start by not being selfish and complaining.

When I wonder about the maturity, relevance or source of much of the dribble, I suspect from the age and origin of many, that you are not necessarily frequent travelers or professionals, and some of you have very disturbing political outlooks and agendas.

American and British aircrew are not willing to be suicidal pawns any longer and will defend passengers and colleagues to the best of our ability. Our nations have proven, at least in our fathers time, that although very peaceful and apparently decadent to the fanatical Muslim, when attacked, we can fight to the death with no quarter. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, militant Islam's godfathers, can attest to our tenacity once threatened.

So people, the stakes are serious, but lighten up and adjust for the moment. At least our incompetent authorities have today saved some of you from a 35,000 foot free fall. For that, a few fewer cell phone calls or video games are worth it.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 33):
and of course the lack of food, as if they needed to get any fatter !!

LOL ! So true....
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:54 pm

Flyinfroggie,

I don't know if the threat was real or not until more information comes out, though to be honest just because the plot was uncovered by Scotland Yard, versus the FBI, gives it some credibility in my eyes.

But to me, besides the obvious bellyaching, which is expected and understandable, I think a lot of people don't give our government, and especially the TSA, a lot of credibility in these matters. Over the years, there's been a lot of "trust us, don't ask questions, just do as we say" type stuff from them and a lot of knee-jerk reactions that don't do anything to really increase security, and therefore a lot of people, me included, are, right or wrong, very cynical about anything that comes from the government, again especially the TSA (remember the duct tape your house debacle?).
 
DavidT
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 22):
Without a bottle of water, you will die, because the stinge-bag airlines never give you any.

They do in Biz and First

BA give out water in every class don't they?
 
GBan
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Flyinfroggie (Reply 32):
It appears that we are reacting to a real threat. In today's world, I would rather overreact than underreact. Once we have the opportunity to have some time to consider what's happened (and what didn't happen), I think that we'll be able to then put more realistic measures in place.

Agreed.

Even if it might turn out later that this was an over-reaction because the threat didn't exist (like weapons of mass destruction in Irak): I think this kind of over-reaction is much more reasonable and acceptable than starting a war. It might save some peoples live and does not kill other people.
 
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United787
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:06 am

I understand the concerns, I do value my life and that of others but...

I never check any liquids because they often explode in flight or get smashed and go all over everything.

Also, who in their right mind would check a laptop? Not my $2000 laptop or my $400 iPod or my $300 digital camera, all things I travel with and don't withstand being thrown around.

I can just see opening my checked bag on the other side and having my shampoo all over my smashed laptop!

There is a point where over security becomes ridiculous and will further hurt the airline industry, we may be reaching that point.
 
skidmarks
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
Without a bottle of water, you will die, because the stinge-bag airlines never give you any.

Gonna have to disagree with you there Jon. On our trip to SLC last year, DL kept us well supplied with water, soft drinks and coffee throughout the flight, both international and domestic. If you wanted anything, just had to ask.

Same on BA to DTW/from YYZ. No worries there.

And I am damn sure if the "No carry on Baggage" becomes the norm, the baggage allowances WILL change.

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:14 am

Well while I wish they didn't have to take this measure it is safer so I guess I won't complain...

B6jfk airplane 
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:16 am

i love how people read my angered post...but nobody caught this one;

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 15):
sorry about my prev posts...the initial shock got to me. I am still pissed because of my traditions, and if the airlines lose my checked "carry on" bag, they'll hear it from me, but I'll get on with life.

yea, Im mad, but the more i watch the more i realize that as much as i disgarre it has to be done. the only thing i disagree with now is the fact that you cannot bring a drink you baught in the airport on board
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
JGPH1A
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 45):
Gonna have to disagree with you there Jon. On our trip to SLC last year, DL kept us well supplied with water, soft drinks and coffee throughout the flight, both international and domestic. If you wanted anything, just had to ask.

Tchah ! You're so literal ! Yes, OK some do, but others don't, I prefer to take my own. And what about hobnobs, eh ? Can't eat manky airline food, do you want to me to fade to a shadow of my sylph-like self ? Oooh alliteration.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
SRT75
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:22 am

Does anyone in the government have a reality-check?

"Explosive liquids." Well, can anyone think of any? Gasoline isn't really "explosive," unless you add pressure. Hydrazine (rocket fuel), again, not really "explosive," as it is designed to be a controlled burn. Nitroglycerine -- o.k., now we're getting somehwere. Don't you think you could scan/test for that, rather than having everyone leave their water bottles street-side?!?!?

Blowing up a plane from the cabin. The Discovery show "Mythbusters" effectively demonstrated that even a shaped charge on a modern airframe will simply blow a hole in the fuselage, not cause the whole plane to explode. Remember, the Aloha 737 safely landed after it opened up like a tin can. (We should not forget, though, that people were killed in the Aloha disaster, and that there is the threat of severe bodily injury form any explosion on a plane.)

Using a "liquid explosive" as a weapon to take over the plane? Not likely.

Just my opinion -- the chances of dying on an airplane because of mechanical failure/pilot error/weather are 100s of times greater than the probability of dying on an airplane because of a terrorist. We all take risks when we fly. Let us have carry-ons on the plane, and get us through security.
 
flyinfroggie
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 45):
What's 3?

Oops... I CAN make a point, but I obviously CANNOT count...  blush 
 
aal0616
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:29 am

UAL787 has a very good point. I had a number of irritating problems over the years with with shampoo, etc. leaking in checked luggage on pleasure trips. "I feel your pain."

Also, it is logical and reasonable to believe that beverages purchased inside security ought to be allowed onboard.

However, what we might surmise from today's challenge is that somehow, security authorities believe that the plan was to have two or three fundamentalist soldiers board each aircraft carrying different liquids or detonating devices such as watches (yes, watches, like the nytro-watch combo they planned to use over the Pacific in the '90s), then mix the liquids and attach whatever rudimentary detonators inflight and then, "boom."

It seems as though they feel that anyone with a brain could get liquids into the terminal even around security, especially if catering staff , restaurant or coffee shop workers, for example, happened to also be part of the plots and members of the holy warriors. All sarcasm, at that point, even what is catered onboard has to be thoroughly examined, which it obviously is.

So, as illogical, inconvenient and ultimately messy as the draconian security restrictions are, it is for a reason, and likely will ease in the coming days.
 
skidmarks
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Flyinfroggie (Reply 54):
Oops... I CAN make a point, but I obviously CANNOT count...

Er, wasn't me that picked that particular fopar up. But hey, who's counting Big grin

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
joness0154
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 53):
Blowing up a plane from the cabin. The Discovery show "Mythbusters" effectively demonstrated that even a shaped charge on a modern airframe will simply blow a hole in the fuselage, not cause the whole plane to explode. Remember, the Aloha 737 safely landed after it opened up like a tin can. (We should not forget, though, that people were killed in the Aloha disaster, and that there is the threat of severe bodily injury form any explosion on a plane.)

I'm sorry, but those guys are idiots.

You know that less than 16oz of plastic explosive took down Pan Am 103, right? The 20in hole it created in the fuselage doesn't seem like much, but it helped take the plane down, along with pressure impulses causing the skin to peel back and essentially rip apart the plane. No, the plane didnt explode, but it ripped itself to pieces.

As for liquid explosives, ever hear of Astrolite? MEKP? EIL's?
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 43):
Also, who in their right mind would check a laptop? Not my $2000 laptop or my $400 iPod or my $300 digital camera, all things I travel with and don't withstand being thrown around.

If $hit blows up while you and your $2000 laptop are in it, nobody will remember the laptop.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
SRT75
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 57):
You know that less than 16oz of plastic explosive took down Pan Am 103, right?

The explosives were in the cargo hold. I will admit, I am no expert on the Pan Am 103 disaster. But was the cause of the crash structural integrity or a secondary issue such as disruption of electrical system/hydraulics system/secondary fuel tank fire? I would think that placement of the explosive has a big effect on its impact. My (admittely uneducated) impression is that major electrical/hydraulic lines are not run through cabin walls. So, unless you can place the cabin charge such that it will penetrate a center fuel tank, I would think a cabin explosion would result in a hole-- and not much else.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 57):
As for liquid explosives, ever hear of Astrolite? MEKP? EIL's?

Again, wouldn't these have "trademark" chemical fingerprints which could be scanned for, rather than trowing out the baby with the bathwater?
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Flyinfroggie (Reply 54):
Oops... I CAN make a point, but I obviously CANNOT count...



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 44):
What's 3?

Nor can you Quote Big grin
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
joness0154
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 65):
The explosives were in the cargo hold. I will admit, I am no expert on the Pan Am 103 disaster. But was the cause of the crash structural integrity or a secondary issue such as disruption of electrical system/hydraulics system/secondary fuel tank fire? I would think that placement of the explosive has a big effect on its impact. My (admittely uneducated) impression is that major electrical/hydraulic lines are not run through cabin walls. So, unless you can place the cabin charge such that it will penetrate a center fuel tank, I would think a cabin explosion would result in a hole-- and not much else.

I believe the cause of that crash was caused by structural integrity issues. A good read can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_...ight_103#How_the_aircraft_broke_up

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 65):
Again, wouldn't these have "trademark" chemical fingerprints which could be scanned for, rather than trowing out the baby with the bathwater?

Well, they can't be detected by standard x-ray machines while unmixed and maybe even if they were mixed. They could, however, be detected by trace detection machines if they are equipped to detect the chemicals they are using. However, trace detection machines are rarely used on 100% of bags and more commonly used for selective searches.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
Halaka
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RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:55 am

The restriction on liquids and laptops really ought to be a temporary solution - the latter restriction on flights out of the UK is particularly alarming to those of us who enjoy airliners - airlines will not survive without business travel and without laptops on board there is little reason for folks to travel on business.

I will end up flying almost 50k miles this year - not much compared to many business travelers. Every single instance I need to fly, I absolutely 100% must have my laptop with me. Checking it in the hold is not an option as long as insurers refuse to insure losses. Some folks may be able to get away with bringing a USB drive (also an electronic device, technically, so check that one too!) - but for anyone who does software development or needs to demo tools, or god forbid must have access to a large database, email archive, etc... it's just not an option.

I tend to agree with Royal that I don't understand why the draconian restrictions are necessary if the plot was in fact foiled... ? How about if you know they are a bunch of british-born people of pakistani origin that you SCREEN THOSE PEOPLE thoroughly?

For those of you who are keen on the notion of "don't like it, then take the bus" I'd like you to remember that the purpose of terrorism is to restrict and disrupt our way of life. They have succeeded as long as they prevent us from traveling normally. And no amount of intelligence-devoid scanning of passengers/staff/crew is going to prevent an attack as long as people are motivated to attack us. I'm all for "standard" security, but we should do a much better job of targeted, intelligence-informed, actions.. It appears that in this case, intelligence did foil a plot, but I'm guessing that if there are other cell members who were not initially part of the investigation - then those folks are now wise to their vulnerability and will simply wait for the 100% restrictions to be reduced.
 
kiramakora
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Halaka (Reply 69):
The restriction on liquids and laptops really ought to be a temporary solution - the latter restriction on flights out of the UK is particularly alarming to those of us who enjoy airliners - airlines will not survive without business travel and without laptops on board there is little reason for folks to travel on business.

I will end up flying almost 50k miles this year - not much compared to many business travelers. Every single instance I need to fly, I absolutely 100% must have my laptop with me. Checking it in the hold is not an option as long as insurers refuse to insure losses. Some folks may be able to get away with bringing a USB drive (also an electronic device, technically, so check that one too!) - but for anyone who does software development or needs to demo tools, or god forbid must have access to a large database, email archive, etc... it's just not an option.

I tend to agree with Royal that I don't understand why the draconian restrictions are necessary if the plot was in fact foiled... ? How about if you know they are a bunch of british-born people of pakistani origin that you SCREEN THOSE PEOPLE thoroughly?

For those of you who are keen on the notion of "don't like it, then take the bus" I'd like you to remember that the purpose of terrorism is to restrict and disrupt our way of life. They have succeeded as long as they prevent us from traveling normally. And no amount of intelligence-devoid scanning of passengers/staff/crew is going to prevent an attack as long as people are motivated to attack us. I'm all for "standard" security, but we should do a much better job of targeted, intelligence-informed, actions.. It appears that in this case, intelligence did foil a plot, but I'm guessing that if there are other cell members who were not initially part of the investigation - then those folks are now wise to their vulnerability and will simply wait for the 100% restrictions to be reduced.

I liked the maturity and rationality of your reply. This is my second day here and you will be the first in my respect list.

PS > Edited to say that apparently I have to wait until 20 posts to be considered fit enough to have some on my respect list.

[Edited 2006-08-10 19:01:26]
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting Halaka (Reply 69):

I will end up flying almost 50k miles this year - not much compared to many business travelers. Every single instance I need to fly, I absolutely 100% must have my laptop with me. Checking it in the hold is not an option as long as insurers refuse to insure losses. Some folks may be able to get away with bringing a USB drive (also an electronic device, technically, so check that one too!) - but for anyone who does software development or needs to demo tools, or god forbid must have access to a large database, email archive, etc... it's just not an option.

Amen.

As for the inconvenience, I could survive 3-4 flights a year without my noice cancellation headphones, my iPod and my movies. Not 80-100 flights like I do currently. It goes from "hassle" to "I'm getting another job".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:17 am

http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/...eat-change-passenger_guidance.shtm

Link to the TSA website concerning the banning of liquids
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
Halaka
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:08 am

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everyt

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:24 am

Here's a good example of showy, but ineffective "additional security" - Mitt Romney is on CNN right now talking about how officers from the Sheriffs department will now patrol BOS with automatic weapons.

How would this have deterred those who were plotting to blow up planes out of the UK? I'm really at a loss to understand that kind of reaction.

It will be interesting to see how long the extraordinary screening measures stay in place - the shoe screening stuff (believe it or not) will never be as much of a hassle as it is to make sure that no liquids of any kind make it on in carry on luggage. And as I mentioned before, the one I'm most keen about is the ban on electronics of any sort out of the UK to the US. That will have a severe and immediate impact on transatlantic biz traffic if that continues very long.

What is sad to think about is how most of us grew up without so much worry about our safety on airliners. I don't think kids in their formative years right now will be so lucky. They will associate air travel immediately with paranoia, fear, and stress. It becomes harder for me each time I travel to relish the excitement of flying - the power and complexity of it all, etc..
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everyt

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:27 am

The whole laptop thing is going to be pretty hard
Often on a long haul I will finish or get started on a job or campaign or whatever on the notebook.
I'm presuming this ban is cross-classes of course?
iPod is always nice if you want to lie back and chill out - not having that willl be tough.
I mean I'm a frequent flier, but thats what I like to have to get on with while on a long haul.
There again, I'm not going to complain, I'm more concerned about mine and other passengers safety than 7 hours of work that I can easily get started at the office on the other end of the flight.
Alex

[Edited 2006-08-10 19:28:33]
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 48):
i love how people read my angered post...but nobody caught this one;

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 15):
sorry about my prev posts...the initial shock got to me. I am still pissed because of my traditions, and if the airlines lose my checked "carry on" bag, they'll hear it from me, but I'll get on with life.

yea, Im mad, but the more i watch the more i realize that as much as i disgarre it has to be done. the only thing i disagree with now is the fact that you cannot bring a drink you baught in the airport on board

Know what one of my "traditions" is? One of my "traditions" is not getting killed by a terrorist. Take a pill. From the news, they obviously have information that compels them to ban liquids in the cabin.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:26 am

I have never seen so much whiny complainers in one thread. I think some here in this thread and in airports around the world have to realize what a threat this could be and how it would affect people. Obviously. People need to shove in their pockets their knee jerk reactions and start thinking like rational human beings.
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
tcfc424
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

RE: TSA Has Done It Again - Basically Check Everything

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:22 am

So many of you have expressed utter dissatisfaction with the TSA and security officials at airports, given the increased threat levels we are now under, considering 21 people have been arrested in a plot that would have involved up to 11 UK-US bound aircraft. They were to attempt this by bringing liquid explosives on board in carryon luggage. To me, that is an immediate and critical threat to the safety of air-travel.

There is a simple solution if you are appalled by these restrictions. DON'T FLY! Instead of taking a 6-8 hour flight, simply board a trans-Atlantic cruise liner and spend a week enjoying your travels. Or, if you like, pony up the money to charter a private jet. However, if you MUST fly, purchase a metal case with plenty of foam protection and advanced locking mechanisms (maybe $200-$300) and place your laptop in it. I am certain that airlines understand not being able to brings consumables aboard the aircraft and should be increasing their catering allocations. The bottom line, however is this: Eat BEFORE you board, eat anything you can get on board, and drink WATER (instead of those beers) before you board. It may cause you a little inconvenience in the short-term, however the lives of 2,700 people may have been saved through the investigation and awareness of world authorities.

To make a long post short...if you don't like it, don't fly. If you do fly, deal with it, and prepare for it. Whatever you do, don't take your frustrations out on flight crews, gate agents, TSA workers, or anyone else. They are simply doing their job.

(11 AA 777's full with 245 seats) <--Basis for 2,700 people.