afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
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TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:55 am

Get This! ATL is suffering a shortage of workers at Concourse C, so they requested agents from field stations to come down and help out. This is all fine, but the temp agents are required to go thru security checkpoint when starting their shifts.

I learned that this morning, my coworker was not allowed to bring sunscreen thru ATL checkpoint. (No one explained the new rules) Needless to say, she BAKED in the hot Georgia sun. Bright red and sun burned. She was badged with a SIDA badge and everything, but still required to go thru checkpoint.

Apparently, she did put sunscreen on before the her shift, but obviously wore off after a rather sweaty and humid morning.

Way to go TSA. Drop the political correctness already! Start profiling

[Edited 2006-08-10 22:04:59]
 
nkops
Posts: 2156
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:59 am

I hope TSA will help with the medicine for the skin cancer then.... that is just ridiculous.

I would have put it on before going thru screening then!!
:evil:
 
roseflyer
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:03 am

That's an unfortunate situation, but because of the raised terror threat, everyone has to suffer somehow. At least she could have put on sunscreen before going through security. Anything is possible in today's world. Someone could have pay off an airport employee to get something on a plane that shouldn't be there. Afterall rampers are the last ones to touch the plane and put things on the plane that are not seen by anyone during the flight.

I honestly pitty all of the TSA workers and airport employees that have to deal with all these uncomfortable passengers that are having to undergo these procedures in order to do something that many of them have to. I feel sorry for the thousands of airline employees that have been yelled at, cursed at and mistreated by frustrated people today throughout the world.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
N231YE
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Thread starter):
Needless to say, she BAKED in the hot Georgia sun. Bright red and sun burned.

Hope she knows about Solarcaine, I love that stuff when I get sunburn.

Anyways, it sucks that all of this happened
 
diesel33
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 1):
I would have put it on before going thru screening then!!

She did...but it must have diluted with all her sweat.

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Thread starter):
Apparently, she did put sunscreen on before the her shift, but obviously wore off after a rather sweaty and humid morning.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:23 am

So here is a question...

What about Pilots and Flight Attendants, are they exempt from the ban?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
roseflyer
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 5):
What about Pilots and Flight Attendants, are they exempt from the ban?

I would hope not. Yes it is a bit difficult to see why pilots need to go through security since they have complete control of the airplane, but there are enough immoral people out there that would carry stuff on for others if they were paid enough money regardless of how it would effect their job.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
I would hope not. Yes it is a bit difficult to see why pilots need to go through security since they have complete control of the airplane, but there are enough immoral people out there that would carry stuff on for others if they were paid enough money regardless of how it would effect their job

The reason that I am asking is sometimes Flight Attendant and Pilot rotations can be weeks in length, and for U.S. airlines unlike European and Asian airlines, crew bags are stored at cabin level. In addition buying new toiletries in 10 different cities on a 21 day trip can be very costly.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
adh214
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:34 am

I think we all need to settle down. The "Liquid" ban has been in place for less than 18 hours. It is possible the TSA is over reacting but in life and death situations an over reaction is better than an under reaction. In the next few days, I would hope that TSA will loosen the restriction on ramper sun tan lotion or Delta will arrange for rampers to leave the secure area during a break to reapply sun tan lotion and then reenter the secure area. Certainly using sun tan lotion is a safety issue for someone working out doors for hours at a time. However, we cannot expect everything to go smoothly on the first day.

As to Flight Attendants and Pilots going through screening, this is as much for their safety as yours. If FA's or Pilots were not screened, they would be the target of terrorists try to smuggle items into the secure zone.

Andrew
 
Tod
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:47 am

Prohibiting sunscreen to people with access to Jet-A and Skydol accomplishes what?

Tod
 
QXRamperMEII
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 5):
So here is a question...

What about Pilots and Flight Attendants, are they exempt from the ban?

As a matter of fact, I asked my girlfriend the exact same question. She's an FA for QX. They just put out a policy about crews taking the "banned" items with them.

- Crews in uniform are allowed to take the usual "liquids" (soap/shampoo/cream, etc) through security. However, they are NOT allowed to take beverages of anykind

-Crews not in uniforms (deadheaders, nonrevs, commuters) are subject to the same restrictions as pax

Hopefully that cleared up a few things. I don't know if the policy is only for QX or not...I assume other airlines are coming up with similar things
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting QXRamperMEII (Reply 10):
Hopefully that cleared up a few things. I don't know if the policy is only for QX or not...I assume other airlines are coming up with similar things

Lets hope all of the Baggage Claim areas at the airports are ready for the influx of baggage!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
roseflyer
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 7):
The reason that I am asking is sometimes Flight Attendant and Pilot rotations can be weeks in length, and for U.S. airlines unlike European and Asian airlines, crew bags are stored at cabin level. In addition buying new toiletries in 10 different cities on a 21 day trip can be very costly

Are they having to check their luggage? I am sure crews out of the UK are, but what about US crews. I am sure they could go through that hassel if necessary.

Quoting Tod (Reply 9):
Prohibiting sunscreen to people with access to Jet-A and Skydol accomplishes what?

Jet-A is hardly a dangerous fuel. You can drop a match in it and it will go out as if it were water. There are plenty of clear and odorless flammables out there that could be mixed and create a dangerous explosion. Kerosene is not very explosive under normal conditions, which is why it is such a good fuel for aviation. Now 100LL will burn a lot easier.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
jwenting
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:06 am

Given that one of the terrorists arrested in the UK was a Heathrow ramper, I fully agree with placing tough restrictions on rampers and heavily scrutinising them every time they enter a restricted area.

I hope the same is implemented worldwide, I see people walking through gates without any kind of check at all except a cursory glance at an ID badge all the time and constantly wonder what is being smuggled inside (and back out).
I wish I were flying
 
afrikaskyes
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:47 am

Given that one of the terrorists arrested in the UK was a Heathrow ramper, I fully agree with placing tough restrictions on rampers and heavily scrutinising them every time they enter a restricted area.

I hope the same is implemented worldwide, I see people walking through gates without any kind of check at all except a cursory glance at an ID badge all the time and constantly wonder what is being smuggled inside (and back out).


You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting she should have to avoid the screening. I am suggesting there is a problem when she was denied sunscreen and was burned as a result of not having been fore warned about it.

Terrorists win.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:53 am

SOLUTION: Airlines who emloy rampers (and others) who need sunscreen inside of the secure area should provide it for them. Its the 1st day....give them a break. I'm sure the sunscreen issue will be resolved soon.

Weren't there any other 'regular' employees there who did not go through the checkpoint who could have let her borrow some sunscreen?

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
Outlier
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:51 am

Maybe they should wear burkhas


Sun burn as the next terrorist weapon?
The un-sunscreened will survive. No lawsuits necessary.
 
afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:18 am

Sun burn as the next terrorist weapon?
The un-sunscreened will survive. No lawsuits necessary.


Speaks for itself....

You must work out on the ramp

Am I the only one that gets it?? Somewhere, the terrorists are laughing their asses off watching airport screeners take away hair gel from a blonde sorority girl going back to collge.
 
Outlier
Posts: 327
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 17):
Speaks for itself....

You must work out on the ramp

No, but thanks for the compliment!
 
positiverate
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:43 am

TSA is working on it. During a conference call with stakeholders and TSA today the issue was raised by airlines on the call, and the thinking was that becase rampers go through the same checks at flight crews, the sunscreen ban would be lifted for them. It was an uninended consequence of the actions of today. TSA will issue guidance in the AM.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Thread starter):
I learned that this morning, my coworker was not allowed to bring sunscreen thru ATL checkpoint. (No one explained the new rules) Needless to say, she BAKED in the hot Georgia sun. Bright red and sun burned. She was badged with a SIDA badge and everything, but still required to go thru checkpoint.

This is definetly over the top. Hopefully they'll find a way to make sunscreen available to rampers airside so they don't need to worry about getting it through security.

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Thread starter):

Way to go TSA. Drop the political correctness already! Start profiling

Racial profiling=racism. It has nothing to do with political correctness.
 
L-188
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
honestly pitty all of the TSA workers

Why they are the scum that made the rules...they deserve to suffer for their stupidity.

Quoting Adh214 (Reply 8):
It is possible the TSA is over reacting

Possible is not the word, they are just trying to justify their budget by creating a crisis.

Quoting Adh214 (Reply 8):
but in life and death situations

It isn't a life and death situation. Despite what New Scotland Yard and those DHS wankers want the people to belive. They keep the public scared, they keep their jobs.

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 15):
Airlines who emloy rampers (and others) who need sunscreen inside of the secure area should provide it for them. Its the 1st day

Actually that might be a very legit OSHA claim.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
j_hallgren
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:43 am

I'm sure there is plenty of excess sunscreen that pax are dumping that could be delivered to rampers in a controlled manner...
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
Outlier
Posts: 327
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 20):
Racial profiling=racism.

Wrong.
 
L-188
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 22):
I'm sure there is plenty of excess sunscreen that pax are dumping that could be delivered to rampers in a controlled manner...

I heard that if you mix Coppertone and Skydrol you get a powerful incindary paste.

 flamed 
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Cactus739
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Why they are the scum that made the rules...they deserve to suffer for their stupidity.

The guy standing at PHX Terminal 2 getting screamed at by a woman who has to throw away an $80 tube of make up is not the scum that made the rules. He's just doing his job as directed by the people above him. Althogh he is the front line employee, nothing he did in his job made him deserve to be yelled at.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
L-188
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 25):
The guy standing at PHX Terminal 2 getting screamed at by a woman who has to throw away an $80 tube of make up is not the scum that made the rules. He's just doing his job as directed by the people above him. Althogh he is the front line employee, nothing he did in his job made him deserve to be yelled at.

It is a bit of an extreme comparison, but basicly you are saying that you should be angry at the guy guarding the rail-boxcar you are in because Himmler was the one that made the rules.

He made a life choice to work for them.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
nonrevman
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 15):
Airlines who emloy rampers (and others) who need sunscreen inside of the secure area should provide it for them. Its the 1st day

Actually that might be a very legit OSHA claim.

It would be if I was a ramp worker. I am fair skinned, burn very easily, and have already had one melanoma removed. If TSA denied me this, some accomdoation would have to be made for me to go back to my car when it is necessary to apply more of the stuff as I sweat it off during the course of the workday.
 
L-188
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting Nonrevman (Reply 27):
It would be if I was a ramp worker. I am fair skinned, burn very easily, and have already had one melanoma removed

Actually I wonder if you should talk to an ADA attorney then. Because I would argue that providing of skin protection inside the SIDA would be a "Reasonable accommodation" for a disability.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
StarAC17
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 20):
Racial profiling=racism. It has nothing to do with political correctness.

No its not.

Racism is being prejudice to another rase where is isn't justified, examples would be how black people in the US were treated in the 60's because they had no reason to deny blacks rights or discimiate against them.

Racial Profiling is the discrimination (which is not a bad world, its telling unlike things apart) of a certain race because statistically they are more likely to be a threat to others. Such as Arabs and South Asian people are more likely to blow up a plane than a 75 year old grandmother, if profile is done correctly no arab will be denied any rights they will just be searched more and if you have nothing to hide then what is the big worry.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
roseflyer
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
honestly pitty all of the TSA workers

Why they are the scum that made the rules...they deserve to suffer for their stupidity.

Do you really think that the person that gets paid slightly over minimum wage to tell you to take off your shoes and walk through the scanner is scum? I don't think that. Yes the organization has problems, but there are plenty of really nice people that work as TSA agents airports who have to deal with angered passengers. It isn't easy taking things away from people and having to argue with them. Yes some go on a power trip, but there are lots of good people that are just doing their job. I have little respect for someone that says that.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
jwenting
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 14):
You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting she should have to avoid the screening. I am suggesting there is a problem when she was denied sunscreen and was burned as a result of not having been fore warned about it.

no, you're missing the point.
If ramp workers are allowed to just bring bottles of something onto the ramp, they can bring bottles of explosives and place them inside aircraft for their coconspiritors to find them when boarding.
As you can now reserve your seat long before boarding, they can know exactly where to place the bottle (in which seatpocket) too.
They can even put in a timer device hidden in an electronic watch or MP3 player easily.
I wish I were flying
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:24 pm

So by letting the pilots take their "usual" stuff with them is any better? They are on the planes. We couldn't take anything through security today but yet pilots and FA's can. Doesn't make sense since most of us workers don't come close to the aircraft. Let's just give this a few days though. I'm sure it will subside.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
airtran737
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 30):
Do you really think that the person that gets paid slightly over minimum wage to tell you to take off your shoes and walk through the scanner is scum?

They make a bit more money than that. I believe that they start off at well over $12.00 an hour
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
frntman
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 30):
Do you really think that the person that gets paid slightly over minimum wage to tell you to take off your shoes and walk through the scanner is scum?

I think the TSA pays a bit better than minimum wage.....

Position Title:
TRANSPORTATION SECURITY OFFICER (TSO) (Screener)
SV-1802, Pay Band D
Annual Salary Range - $23,600-$35,400 per year
Salary Range does not include locality pay of 18.04%
Under this appointment you are eligible for health insurance and life insurance
coverage.

$23,600 = ~$11.34/hr not including the 18.04% locality pay in PHL. (based on 40 hrs/wk)
 
afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:33 pm

no, you're missing the point.
If ramp workers are allowed to just bring bottles of something onto the ramp, they can bring bottles of explosives and place them inside aircraft for their coconspiritors to find them when boarding.
As you can now reserve your seat long before boarding, they can know exactly where to place the bottle (in which seatpocket) too.
They can even put in a timer device hidden in an electronic watch or MP3 player easily.


Give me a break. I got the point completely. Banning sunscreen and a water bottle from blue eyed "Jennifer" is not the answer. You might as well ban A&P mechanics and their tools for that matter.

Maybe the security officials are right. The Army of God, the IRA, and the Michgian Milita probably do pose a real threat.
 
Bobski
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 20):
Racial profiling=racism. It has nothing to do with political correctness

No it isn't. Considering that statistically the people most likely to plot or perform a terrorist act such as this are of Islamic/South Asian/Middle Eastern origin, then it makes sense to give them a little extra screening. If the situation was reversed you can bet Westerners would get profiled. The key to counter-terrorism is to first identify the threat and then to focus your efforts on that threat. We've identified that the main threat is Islamic extremists, yet because of CAIR, the MCB and the ACLU we can't focus our efforts on that threat because it would be 'racist'.

I'll restate what has already been said. A little extra screening won't take a significant amount of extra time, and if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.

On the other hand, maybe a little bit of inconvenience is what is needed to encourage certain communities to actually assist in the fight against terrorism rather than hiding the suspects and refusing to cooperate with the authorities.
Who is Benjamin Breeg?
 
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Goodbye
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:06 pm

And still people stick up for these arcane and draconian laws  Yeah sure
 
deltadude
Posts: 116
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 20):
Racial profiling=racism. It has nothing to do with political correctness.

That's BS. Everytime there is any threat it's a person of Middle Eastern descent. Name ONE time in the last 6 years that a person NOT of Middle Eastern has been behind a terror plot regarding aircraft. TSA should ABSOLUTELY profile. When was the last time an 80 year-old white grandma blew up a plane?

As for this TSA chic....why can they just inspect the sunscreen. Hell, have her put some on. If she doesn't blow up and she smells like sunscreen, it's probably sunscreen. But I guess that would be logical....and we can't have logic, now can we?
 
Flyer732
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:50 pm

And I saw a report on BBC stating that one of the arrested people in London had an LHR ID and worked at the airport.
 
positiverate
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting Deltadude (Reply 38):
As for this TSA chic....why can they just inspect the sunscreen. Hell, have her put some on. If she doesn't blow up and she smells like sunscreen, it's probably sunscreen. But I guess that would be logical....and we can't have logic, now can we?

Everyone take a breath. Again, in the turmoil of yesterday, one of the uinintended consequences was that rampers also had their sunscreen taken. TSA screeners were given strict instructions and followed them, most likely using a "better safe then sorry" approach. During a conference call with stakeholders and TSA yesterday the issue was raised by airlines on the call, and the thinking was that because rampers go through the same checks at flight crews, the sunscreen ban was to be lifted for them.
 
aanyc
Posts: 129
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:07 pm

As crew members we were told a couple of years ago that there was a possiblity of this type of situation happening. People bringing separate items on board such as liquids and mixing them on-board the aircraft. Also, look back to the incident in the 90's where intelligance showed there was a plan to do this type of thing over the Pacific. Once again the TSA takes it to the extreme. They had plenty of time to ensure the necesssary things were in place to prevent this type of incident. In a few months I am sure it will be back to the way it was on 08/09. With all of the taxes the TSA collects from airline tickets, where does it go? With the TSA in charge I feel no safer today than I did prior to 09/11.
 
positiverate
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 41):
Once again the TSA takes it to the extreme. They had plenty of time to ensure the necesssary things were in place to prevent this type of incident

Right, like a few hours from when the announcement of the arrests and the details of the plot emerged to the morning rush occurring at the nation's airports. That should have been plenty of time to implement a sweeping plan like that...
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting Deltadude (Reply 38):
That's BS. Everytime there is any threat it's a person of Middle Eastern descent. Name ONE time in the last 6 years that a person NOT of Middle Eastern has been behind a terror plot regarding aircraft. TSA should ABSOLUTELY profile. When was the last time an 80 year-old white grandma blew up a plane?

FYI- names of 18 of the 19 Suspects arrested in the jetliner terror plot:

Abdula Ahmed Ali, Cossor Ali, Shaza Khuram Ali, Nabeel Hussain, Tanvir Hussain, Umair Hussain, Umar Islam, Waseem Kayani, Assan Abdullah Khan, Waheed Arafat Khan, Osman Adam Khatib, Abdul Muneem Patel, Tayib Rauf, Muhammed Usman Saddique, Assad Sarwar, Ibrahim Savant, Amin Asmin Tariq, Shamin Mohammed Uddin.

 scratchchin 
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
MechEngineer
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:30 pm

Quote:
Deltadude / Name ONE time in the last 6 years that a person NOT of Middle Eastern has been behind a terror plot regarding aircraft.

Profiling... The problem is that terrorists would get around that problem, just as they now got around the problem of post-9/11 security checks. They would use white European-looking loonies who have converted to Islamism (not identical to Islam). Converts are often the greatest fanatics.
Heavier-than-air flying machines...
 
aanyc
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 42):
Right, like a few hours from when the announcement of the arrests and the details of the plot emerged to the morning rush occurring at the nation's airports. That should have been plenty of time to implement a sweeping plan like that...

If you read my complete statement, I was referring to the fact that they had many years to develop a plan. Again, the same type of plot with the flights over the Pacific back in the 90's. Also, if we as crewmembers had been briefed about the probability of taking items on-board seperately and assembling them, your saying the TSA was not aware of this? Of course they were. Since it's inception the TSA has not done what they were created to do.

[Edited 2006-08-11 16:37:40]
 
Outlier
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 44):
Profiling... The problem is that terrorists would get around that problem, just as they now got around the problem of post-9/11 security checks. They would use white European-looking loonies who have converted to Islamism (not identical to Islam). Converts are often the greatest fanatics.

You are falling into the "profiling = race" trap.
And, if they could "use" white European looking loonies, why haven't they?
 
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Why they are the scum that made the rules...they deserve to suffer for their stupidity.

Looks like you may be the one suffering, whining and getting upset here, not them.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Possible is not the word, they are just trying to justify their budget by creating a crisis.

Yea, thats it. I bet you would be crying all hell out if aircraft were sitting at the bottom of the atlantic right now.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
It isn't a life and death situation. Despite what New Scotland Yard and those DHS wankers want the people to belive. They keep the public scared, they keep their jobs.

I'm sure they would still have thier jobs regardless.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 28):
It would be if I was a ramp worker. I am fair skinned, burn very easily, and have already had one melanoma removed

Actually I wonder if you should talk to an ADA attorney then. Because I would argue that providing of skin protection inside the SIDA would be a "Reasonable accommodation" for a disability.

Having fair skin and being succeptable to sunburn is a disability? Hey someone get me that updated list by the end of they day ok! If he was a ramp worker and already had a melanoma removed, wouldn't it be wise enough to think "hmm maybe this isn't a healthy job for me" Afterall if he worked on the ramp then

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
He made a life choice to work for them.



Quoting Deltadude (Reply 38):
That's BS. Everytime there is any threat it's a person of Middle Eastern descent. Name ONE time in the last 6 years that a person NOT of Middle Eastern has been behind a terror plot regarding aircraft. TSA should ABSOLUTELY profile. When was the last time an 80 year-old white grandma blew up a plane?

As for this TSA chic....why can they just inspect the sunscreen. Hell, have her put some on. If she doesn't blow up and she smells like sunscreen, it's probably sunscreen. But I guess that would be logical....and we can't have logic, now can we?

It's easy to invoke the sense of the word logic, but obviously its not so easy to actually use it. Eventually the people "of Middle Eastern descent" are going to get smart and start using people who blend in more and look as common as the passenger sitting next to you in 18A. Don't be blind and think its not possible, it is already happening. How logical is it for TSA screeners to put on sunscreen lotion to see that is 'probably sunscreen'. If they could do it for rampers and sunscreen why not everyone and lotion, toothpaste ect.
You may have milke, but not logic.

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access-air
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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 31):
no, you're missing the point.
If ramp workers are allowed to just bring bottles of something onto the ramp, they can bring bottles of explosives and place them inside aircraft for their coconspiritors to find them when boarding.
As you can now reserve your seat long before boarding, they can know exactly where to place the bottle (in which seatpocket) too.
They can even put in a timer device hidden in an electronic watch or MP3 player easily.

Well, I dont agree. Once again this is TSA's knee-jerk reaction to something that could be tactfully handled....I guess the prevailing mentality is to just ban everything until they get their heads screwed on and figure it out???

Quoting Aanyc (Reply 41):
Once again the TSA takes it to the extreme. They had plenty of time to ensure the necesssary things were in place to prevent this type of incident. In a few months I am sure it will be back to the way it was on 08/09. With all of the taxes the TSA collects from airline tickets, where does it go? With the TSA in charge I feel no safer today than I did prior to 09/11.

Agreed, Look at the coffin mentality displayed by the FAA regarding implementation of smoke detectors in airplane Lavs...It took the Air Canada DC9's fire and many deaths to make them put the detectors in the lavs.
Why is it that the FAA didnt have the insight to know this before? Why did the FAA allow box cutter types of knives onboard airplanes on on September 10th, 2001 and previous? Did they not have the insight to prevent a 9/11??
I agree, with the amount of taxes that we have to collect everytime I sell an airline ticket that I really dont feel any safer than I did prior to to 9/11..In fact, one might feel less safe as TSA can be concentrating so dilligently on one thing that they would ignore others...
I still dont understand the mentality behind finger nail clippers being banned to this day....

When will the Department of Homeland Security start taking away liquids from passengers on AMTRAK or On Cruise ships or on Greyhound type busses here??? Those things are just as suceptable to this madness....

I am also wondering how ANY liquid exlosive could be stable enuff to take all the jostling around in a person's drink without exploding.....

Whats next? will TSA ban eye glasses because people could have their lenses made out of clear plastic explosives?
What about food that people are forced to bring on planes because the airlines either dont serve it or make you pay for it? Death by burritos from Taco Bell??? Its not funny.
What happens when a terrorist uses his bare hands to prepetuate something on a plane? Will we all be subject to having our hands tied behind our backs for a flight? You can think of scenerios forever but you cannot totally protect everyone from everything....The only way to do that is to ban air travel period and make everyairline all over the globe stop flying.....PERIOD....
What do you all think??

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RE: TSA Denies Sunscreen For Ramp Workers

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:24 am

First, as someone fair skinned I have no problem with security banning personel liquids. But just as the airline provides water, they must step up and provide sun-screen. I couldn't work more than 2 hours without re-applying sun screen. While I have my favorite brands, etc., I can understand limiting what goes through security.

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Thread starter):
Way to go TSA. Drop the political correctness already! Start profiling

Like it or not, that is the most cost effective way to cut terrorism. Yes, check a kids backpack in case some bastard put something in it, but let's be sensible.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
I honestly pitty all of the TSA workers and airport employees that have to deal with all these uncomfortable passengers that are having to undergo these procedures in order to do something that many of them have to. I feel sorry for the thousands of airline employees that have been yelled at, cursed at and mistreated by frustrated people today throughout the world.

Add me to that chorus. Good quote!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
everyone has to suffer somehow.

Not a great quote. Not at all.
Anyone who has taken *any* management training knows that to ask your employees to take undue suffering for no reason just breeds strong resentment in the ranks. Denying employees sunscreen is racism.

Quoting Tod (Reply 9):
Prohibiting sunscreen to people with access to Jet-A and Skydol accomplishes what?

 rotfl  You have a great point. With an ipod, a jerry can, and Jet-A... anyone could take out an airliner. (Ummm... for the record, I'm a combustion engineer. I've designed gas turbine fuel injectors and other things that require burning things. But I've seen hardware go "boom" and thus respect the huge energy stored in many hosehold chemicals. And yes, geeky coworkers and I have used about anything you could imagine that's found under your sink to launch Potatoes. And yes, we had launchers go "boom" to.)

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):

Lets hope all of the Baggage Claim areas at the airports are ready for the influx of baggage!

Good lord... I fear my flight on Monday for that very reason.

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 47):
Eventually the people "of Middle Eastern descent" are going to get smart and start using people who blend in more and look as common as the passenger sitting next to you in 18A. Don't be blind and think its not possible, it is already happening.

 checkmark  But profiling is more than just race. I accept that it also includes most 25 to 35 year old men. (The most like group to commit murder.) Thus, I accept that since I look a little young, it means that I'll get hit in the profiling. But don't profile mothers with babies... talk about a group that won't do a thing... etc.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 48):
I am also wondering how ANY liquid exlosive could be stable enuff to take all the jostling around in a person's drink without exploding.....

Easy. You could fill a racketball with some gel explosives, play for an hour safely, and have the thing detonate with the first spark. 19th century explosives were all shock sensitive. Many of today's are too... many are not shock sensitive.

We had one liquid chemical where the techs would throw each other the bottles (often dropping them) and they had no problem. However, we then found out that rat's think that that this rocket fuel smells yummy and when one went swimming in the tank... the resulting explosion blew the heavy tank lid (reinforced as a pressure vessel) almost a full mile (something like 5,100 feet). How did the rat get in? We had the tank vent open and the damn thing crawled through our vent valve looking for whatever smelled "yummy" inside. This particular fuel was incredibly stable as long as it was kept clean. As soon as its contaminated with hydrocarbons... it goes boom. For the record... the tank blew up with the vent open (yes, pressure built up that quickly and this wasn't a thin skinned airliner, but an ANSI certified pressure vessel).

Note: If it gets on a person it just bleaches them. I've seen a very dark man with a pasty white arm after a OSHA reported spill.  Sad But if a person went swimming in a tank of the stuff, any restriction to the chemical vaporizing sets up the conditions for an explosion.

Notice I never said what chemical. But I know there are about 2,000 other combustion engineers out there and at least 500 have enough knoledge to do scary things. Do I sit up at night worrying about this? Nope. Most of them just want to make neat things like I do.

Oh, just to make things more interesting, this chemical's #1 use is as an additive to drinking water!  wideeyed  Its used world wide too.

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