haggis79
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The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:19 pm

In yet another AvB-thread I came across this article: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,20085296-23349,00.html

I don't want to discuss the content of that article here yet again, but one half-sentence therein got my attention: they mention "the 16 major 747 operators" - so I wondered, which carriers this might refer to. I came up with (in no particular order):

Singapore Airlines
Qantas
Air New Zealand
Thai
Malaysian Airlines
Lufthansa
Air France
British Airways
JAL
ANA
Air China
China Airlines
Northwest
United

This would make 14. So - who else is operating the 747, and also, are all those airlines I listed meant to be "major" 747 operators?
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afterburner
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:32 pm

Quick guess:

Saudi Arabian Airlines
Virgin Atlantic
Korean Air
Cargolux
 
manni
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Thread starter):

This would make 14. So - who else is operating the 747, and also, are all those airlines I listed meant to be "major" 747 operators?

Hasn't Air New Zealand a rather small 747 fleet compared to the others? I'd include South African and KLM, aswell as Korean, Virgin and Saoudi Arabian. How big is Air China's 747 fleet?
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haggis79
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:47 pm

Shame on me for forgetting KLM and Virgin...  ashamed 

it's kinda late here, maybe I should rather go to bed.... I agree, Air NZ is probably not one of the really big 747 operators.... don't know about Air China, though...
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oly720man
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:51 pm

Cathay Pacific as well
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nickofatlanta
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:58 pm

I would probably eliminate NZ from that list and add KE and KL.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:00 pm

What about China Airlines? 17 B744Fs currently and 15 B744.

REF: http://www.china-airlines.com/en/about/about.htm

Doesn't Atlas have a massive fleet of B744Fs?

What is the size of CX's fleet? 21 B744s according to the fleetlist http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_TW/whatonboard/ourfleet/b_747_400

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
I'd include South African

I think SA has reduced it's (active) B747 fleet to 8: http://ww3.flysaa.com/en/en_content_...fleet_info_seat_plans_content.html

Bren
 
ktachiya
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:04 pm

According to my almanac of 747 which is from 5 years ago (outdated, but still). Thai seemed to have a smaller 747 fleet than Malaysian.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
Baexecutive
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:11 pm

I would say the biggest operators were BA, ANA & JAL?
 
cx777fan
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:25 pm

Air India have a few, don't know whether they would make the top 16. Don't forget Iran Air's classics and SPs as well. Asiana have at least half a dozen 744 combis. Do EVA have any 747s? Garuda?

Air Pacific is another minor player with a couple of 747s.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:27 pm

^
BR still has a sizeable fleet. At least 10-12 including combis.

Not even close Baexec.

NH only operates 10 at the moment.

[Edited 2006-08-11 10:28:30]
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mauriceb
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:33 pm

Indeed shame on you for forgetting KLM  Wink

They have 25 747's from wich 3 747-400ERF's, and there's a 4th freighter comming...
 
keesje
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:40 pm

JAPAN AIRLINES INTERNATIONAL 70
BRITISH AIRWAYS 57
NORTHWEST AIRLINES 46
KOREAN AIR 45
CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS 37
QANTAS 36
CHINA AIRLINES 33
AIR FRANCE 32
UNITED AIRLINES 31
LUFTHANSA 30
ATLAS AIR 27
SINGAPORE AIRLINES 27
KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES 25
ALL NIPPON AIRWAYS 23
SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES 23
AIR ATLANTA ICELANDIC 22
MALAYSIA AIRLINES 21
THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL 20
EVA AIR 18
KALITTA AIR 18
AIR INDIA 16
IRAN AIR 15
SINGAPORE AIRLINES CARGO 15
ASIANA AIRLINES 14
CARGOLUX AIRLINES 14
EVERGREEN INTERNATIONAL 13
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 13
AIR CHINA 12
NIPPON CARGO AIRLINES 12
PIA 11
POLAR AIR CARGO 11
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS 11
UNITED PARCEL SERVICE 11
EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES 10
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BreninTW
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:46 pm

Quoting CX777Fan (Reply 9):
Do EVA have any 747s?

EVA has quite a few -- 5 passenger, 10 Combis and 3 744Fs.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):
NH only operates 10 at the moment

NH had 27 a year age ... have they really got shot of 17 since then?
 
NZ560
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):

Hasn't Air New Zealand a rather small 747 fleet compared to the others?

NZ only have 8 744R's.
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CXA330300
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:00 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
JAPAN AIRLINES INTERNATIONAL 70
BRITISH AIRWAYS 57
NORTHWEST AIRLINES 46
KOREAN AIR 45
CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS 37
QANTAS 36
CHINA AIRLINES 33
AIR FRANCE 32
UNITED AIRLINES 31
LUFTHANSA 30
ATLAS AIR 27
SINGAPORE AIRLINES 27
KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES 25
ALL NIPPON AIRWAYS 23
SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES 23
AIR ATLANTA ICELANDIC 22

There are the sixteen major operators.

How many operators all together?
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
afterburner
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:08 pm

Quoting CX777Fan (Reply 9):
Garuda?

They only have (operate) three, AFAIK.
 
mauriceb
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:39 pm

Quote:
JAPAN AIRLINES INTERNATIONAL 70
BRITISH AIRWAYS 57
NORTHWEST AIRLINES 46
KOREAN AIR 45
CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS 37
QANTAS 36
CHINA AIRLINES 33
AIR FRANCE 32
UNITED AIRLINES 31
LUFTHANSA 30
ATLAS AIR 27
SINGAPORE AIRLINES 27
KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES 25
ALL NIPPON AIRWAYS 23
SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES 23
AIR ATLANTA ICELANDIC 22
MALAYSIA AIRLINES 21
THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL 20
EVA AIR 18
KALITTA AIR 18
AIR INDIA 16
IRAN AIR 15
SINGAPORE AIRLINES CARGO 15
ASIANA AIRLINES 14
CARGOLUX AIRLINES 14
EVERGREEN INTERNATIONAL 13
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 13
AIR CHINA 12
NIPPON CARGO AIRLINES 12
PIA 11
POLAR AIR CARGO 11
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS 11
UNITED PARCEL SERVICE 11
EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES 10

Actually SQ should be 5th at the list, because you also counted the KL cargo planes in the 25 listed, and when you count the 15 cargo planes up to the 27 pax planes you would get 43...
 
manni
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:27 pm

What % of the the worlds active 747 fleet would these 16 airlines fly combined? Passenger and cargo aircraft seperated and let us count combi's as passenger aircraft.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 15):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
JAPAN AIRLINES INTERNATIONAL 70
BRITISH AIRWAYS 57
NORTHWEST AIRLINES 46
KOREAN AIR 45
CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS 37
QANTAS 36
CHINA AIRLINES 33
AIR FRANCE 32
UNITED AIRLINES 31
LUFTHANSA 30
ATLAS AIR 27
SINGAPORE AIRLINES 27
KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES 25
ALL NIPPON AIRWAYS 23
SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES 23
AIR ATLANTA ICELANDIC 22

Total is 560 for passenger and cargo aircraft combined. However I would add SIA's 15 freighters to the list aswell, take out Air Atlanta Icelandic and replace it with number 17 on the list, MH. That would give a total of 574.

Can anyone come up with a list of the current 16 biggest 744 operators? I guess that would add TG, MH and OZ to the list and atleast eliminate Air Atlanta Icelandic, Polar and ...?
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Aaron747
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:13 pm

No they haven't got rid of 17, but I forgot about the -481Ds  Wink
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baflyer
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:50 pm

So if we now have the top 16 list how do Airbus claim they have half of them as customers?

I can only see SQ, AF, LH, KE and QF. That's less than a third.
Most frustrating part of being an atheist - Never being able to say "Told you so".
 
Ljungdahl
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
IRAN AIR 15

There might be 15 747s delivered to Iran, but a fair number of those is operated for the Iranian Air Force, also some of them are grounded for good AFAIK.

/Johan
 
vv701
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Can anyone come up with a list of the current 16 biggest 744 operators?

BA is the biggest with 57.
 
airbazar
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting Baflyer (Reply 20):
So if we now have the top 16 list how do Airbus claim they have half of them as customers?

If you count only top 16 passenger carriers operating the 747, using the above list, IIRC at least 7 of them have ordered the A380. That's pretty close to half of them.
 
manni
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Baflyer (Reply 20):
So if we now have the top 16 list how do Airbus claim they have half of them as customers?

I can only see SQ, AF, LH, KE and QF. That's less than a third.

Something might have been lost in the translation, I doubt Air Icelandic's fleet of 747's classic and Atlas Air Cargo's fleet are of any relevance when talking about the worlds largest 747 "airlines". That would move MH and TG (2 A380 customers) into the top 16.

Another possibility is the worlds largest 747 airlines quote was the worlds largest 744 airlines.

Or is a A380 order on the horizon...  cheerful 
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baflyer
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 23):
If you count only top 16 passenger carriers



Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
I doubt Air Icelandic's fleet of 747's classic and Atlas Air Cargo's fleet are of any relevance

Fair comments - but Airbus are doing exactly what they are complaining Boeing are doing - massaging the numbers to suit their own purpose.

They both do it - always have done - always will do.
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Gr8Circle
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:03 pm

AI currently have a fleet of 14 747s, consisting of 12 744's and 2 743's....
 
richardw
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:18 pm

Which airport, and at what time of day, has the largest number of B747 on the ground?
 
AMSSFO
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:24 pm

from http://airlinerlist.com/ which is one of the more reliable sites
67 Japan AL
57 British AW
46 Korean Air
41 Singapore AL
36 Cathay Pacific
35 Qantas
34 China AL
32 Air France
32 Northwest AL
30 Lufthansa (Cargo)
30 United AL
26 Saudi Arabian/Saudia
25 KLM
23 All Nippon AW
23 Malaysian AS
21 Atlas Air

an number 17-25
20 Air China
20 Thai AW Int
18 EVA AW
18 Kalitta Air
15 Cargolux
14 Air India
14 Asiana
12 Virgin Atlantic AW
11 Nippon Cargo AL

according to airlinerlist there are 936 747 still active, the first 16 operate 558 of these, about 60%. The remaining 378 are flown by another 79 operators.
 
EDDB
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:33 am

If I were an Airbus manager I would be very relaxed, cause if only have of these
'Big 16' orders the A380 equivalent to the number of 747s they're operating, you have your business case....
And you don't even have to count your biggest customer EK for that, not to mention newcomers like Kingfisher and Qatar or the growth you can expect in China!
And as long as nobody seems to be willing to order the 748i you can get a nice
big slice of the cake!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
BA is the biggest with 57.

JAL is even larger, with 60. BA operates more 747-400s though.
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haggis79
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:20 am

actually, what I was just wondering.... may they have counted KL and AF as one?
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LHR777
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 30):
BA operates more 747-400s though.

True - in fact, BA operates only 747-400's!
 
jfr
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:59 am

The Polar numbers should be for Atlas and Polar together - same company after all.......
 
KLM685
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 28):

32 Air France
32 Northwest AL
30 Lufthansa (Cargo)
30 United AL
26 Saudi Arabian/Saudia
25 KLM



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 31):
actually, what I was just wondering.... may they have counted KL and AF as one?

No they're not, they were counted as individual airlines.
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lijnden
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:37 am

What about a list of only the original buyers of 747's of all series? I am sure we will see Pan Am up there as well as TWA and not Polar Tigers.

How are the leasing companies doing?
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mowtoib
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Baflyer (Reply 20):
So if we now have the top 16 list how do Airbus claim they have half of them as customers?

I can only see SQ, AF, LH, KE and QF. That's less than a third.

Not quite true... If we look at the list compiled by Keesje and edited by CXA330300 (note his nick!) we will actually see more Airbus customers:

BA - 319/320/321 operator
NW - 319/320/330 operator
CI - 330/340 operator
KL - 330 operator
CX - 330/340 operator
UA - 319/320 operator

So it gives us even more than a half, almost two thirds. But I agree that there has been something wrong with the translation.
 
Skip17
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 am

According to wikipedia (althought not sure precise) these are the top:

Japan Airlines (60)
British Airways (57)
Korean Air (42)
Cathay Pacific (37)
Air France (32)
United Airlines (30)

This includes all varients of the B747

Cheers  Smile
 
KBGRbillT
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Jfr (Reply 33):
The Polar numbers should be for Atlas and Polar together - same company after all.......

I 2nd that, and the thread is asking for the 16 major Operators, not just passenger airlines so with 41 B747F's (according to Atlas's website) that would place Atlas in the top 5 in the world!!
 
tbear815
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:02 am

Mowtoib - Even though they have few, both SQ and TG fly the A340-500.

And yes, it would be interesting to see what airline has ordered the most 747's of any model. Would that be PA or SQ or who?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting Tbear815 (Reply 39):
And yes, it would be interesting to see what airline has ordered the most 747's of any model. Would that be PA or SQ or who?

JL by a country mile!! I'm not sure exactly how many but it would be around 120+! I think JL's include Freighters aswell.
 
vv701
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:11 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 30):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
BA is the biggest with 57.

JAL is even larger, with 60. BA operates more 747-400s though.

Sorry. I thought it was clear that I was responding to a question about operators of the 744 and not all models of the 747:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
Can anyone come up with a list of the current 16 biggest 744 operators?

BA is the biggest with 57.
 
BA787
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RE: The 16 Major 747 Operators?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
BA is the biggest with 57.

BA operates the biggest fleet of 744's JAL operates the biggest combined fleet