TinkerBelle
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Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:21 am

With all the talk about 'carry on luggage days behind us', it got me thinking, will airline manufacturers eliminate overhead bins sooner or later? Manufacturer's put too much hype on 'the A330 has bigger bins than the 767 and the 777 has bigger bins than the A340' and stuff like that but it looks like that won't matter anymore if the new TSA rules hold.

What do you guys think? If this holds up, there's no point of putting them up which will be a big weight-saving issue. Maybe now the 772LR can do LHR-SYD without much restriction then!  biggrin . I know, I'm probably getting ahead of myself here.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:28 am

I was wondering that myself. A bit early to really know, of course, but I can see Ryanair getting excited about selling "baggage class" seats in space formerly taken up by handbags!
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HPRamper
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:37 am

This is only temporary. No way will carryon baggage just go away. Besides, only the UK is banning all carryons at the moment I believe. Give it a month or two and things will be back nearly as they were.
 
DL4EVR
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:40 am

Yeah...especially if they're going to try to install X-ray machines at checkpoints that were manufactured AFTER 1975...ones that can detect explosive liquids. I really can't see them banning laptops and cell phones...in this day and age people live off those things!
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JBo
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:12 am

The ban on carryon luggage is more than likely temporary. I highly doubt it will be permanent for the rest of time.

Thus, we probably won't see overhead bins disappear.
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jwenting
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
This is only temporary. No way will carryon baggage just go away. Besides, only the UK is banning all carryons at the moment I believe. Give it a month or two and things will be back nearly as they were.

No, it's the UK leading the way.
I can imagine the UK demanding that all flights into the UK use the same policy, and other countries (under pressure from the industry, the airlines have wanted an excuse to do away with carryon for decades) doing the same thing.
It just takes time for politicians to come up with the idea and/or get sufficiently greased.

Or maybe it will be a ban just for cattleclass, with limited allowances for first and business class passengers only, which would show the real reason for the ban: airline income.
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max999
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 5):


Or maybe it will be a ban just for cattleclass, with limited allowances for first and business class passengers only, which would show the real reason for the ban: airline income.

If that happens, they can definitely make more money if they keep the existing checked baggage allowances.
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TinkerBelle
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:30 am

I honestly think this rule will be here to stay since the airlines will push for it. I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised it it did.
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DavidT
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:41 am

I imagine that elements of the current regulations will remain - but I believe an outright ban on carryons will not materialise. The ban is only in force at the moment because a terrorist plot was planned to occur sometime around now that used hand baggage.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 7):
I honestly think this rule will be here to stay since the airlines will push for it.

The airlines will not push for it though. Everything about this new rule is a major inconvenience for both passenger and airline employee and can play havoc with load planning and cargo carriage. Once the rules are relaxed, the airlines will be right there to reinstate those carryon allowances.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Thread starter):
looks like that won't matter anymore if the new TSA rules hold.

Not necessarily.....

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 7):
I honestly think this rule will be here to stay since the airlines will push for it. I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised it it did.

The TSA in the US would set the rule, not the airlines.
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CalAir
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:18 am

I say do it! People in reality do not need half the crap they take on board aeroplanes. Think back 30 years. Smaller overhead bins designed to take a coat, maybe a hat,a blanket and a small bag at most. In todays age of AVOD and other IFE enhancements, we simply do not need to take all manner of electronic gizmos on board. And if you happen to be travelling on an airline that just has older IFE with overhead monitors, either deal with it or buy a thick book. No carryons except essentials means less scope for terrorist wannabes to conceal items that could harm airline travellers. It may be an inconvenience but its an excellent way of controlling items that can or cannot be carried on board. If you really dont like it,drive or take the train.
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Boeing757/767
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:25 am

You know, not that I think about it, think about how much time could be saved in boarding if we didn't have to wait for people to stow their crap? On the other hand, think of the wait for checked baggage...
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kiramakora
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 11):
No carryons except essentials means less scope for terrorist wannabes to conceal items that could harm airline travellers.

Everyone has a different definition of "eseentials." I travel for work and my laptop is an essential tool for me. Without it, I would rather do a video-conference in or something of that sort. While we need new rules, I do not think we need to necessarily alter our way of life dramatically at every onset. Terrorism - which by definition means to terrorize, would then have prevailed.
 
TheCheese
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 11):
And if you happen to be travelling on an airline that just has older IFE with overhead monitors, either deal with it or buy a thick book.

If carryons are banned, how am I supposed to get that "thick book" on the airplane?
 
bestpilot
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 11):
If you really dont like it,drive or take the train.

I'm actually willing to take on the additional risk of carryon bags just for the sake of my convenience. What was need is better screening/profiling/security at all airports. El Al doesn't have to ban carryon luggage and they are the most secure airline on and above the earth.
 
style
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 11):
I say do it! People in reality do not need half the crap they take on board aeroplanes

Absolutely, what the carriers and security officials need to focus on is enforcing the carry on limitations. It is amazing the stuff you see people brinigng with them on a plane now a days.

As for a complete ban, it will never happen, the public, the airlines, and common sense way of life would never allow it. This problem needs to be dealt with the same exact way it was handled August 10th. By getting these people BEFORE they even try to step foot in an airport.
 
TheCheese
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 11):
If you really dont like it,drive or take the train.

Awesome!

Can you help me find a train schedule that will let me get from Portland, Oregon to Tokyo in two days?

How about driving from New York to Paris? Well, that is a long trip... better take the train, instead.

And whereas I COULD drive from Seattle to Anchorage, it's a five or six day drive... each way.

I think that you need to realistically reassess your comments.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:06 am

I doubt there will be a ban on reading material for long, books and newspapers, as long as TSA people can flick through the pages and see that the hard-cover book isn't really a box with a trigger-thingy in the middle...

I won't be surprised if there are bans on electronic gizmoes like iPods and such. If that happens, I will invest a lot of money in companies that make AVOD IFE products, as they will become rich as thieves when all airlines start calling them, asking for PTVs for all the aircraft in their fleet, down to CRJs, as pax will demand to be entertained.

Edited for spelling

[Edited 2006-08-12 00:34:45]

[Edited 2006-08-12 00:35:27]
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CalAir
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:22 am

Right, as far as not being able to take a book on board, once the retrictions are lifted slightly, im sure they will allow books through, seeing as its im possible to hide any sort of explosive in one without it being discovered, and as for not being able to get the train, well, there you go. Airline transport is not a right. If you do not like the travel conditions imposed upon you, you do not HAVE TO FLY! It is your choice. If its impractical to take another mode of transport, its a bummer but hey, you've just got to live with it. Nobody forces anyone to step foot on a commercial carrier. I am perfectly aware thet you cannot take the train from New York to Paris, I am not simple, you don't have to fly though, yes its the fastest and most likely cheapest option, but you have to accept whatever security measures are imposed if you wish to board an airliner.However, if ALL the worlds airlines and airports were to adopt the same level of security as EL AL, yes, the threat would be very small, but I doubt very much that any airline or airport authority would be quick to invest quite so heavily in such technology until they are forced to do so.
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jaysit
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 11):
I say do it! People in reality do not need half the crap they take on board aeroplanes. Think back 30 years. Smaller overhead bins designed to take a coat, maybe a hat,a blanket and a small bag at most. In todays age of AVOD and other IFE enhancements, we simply do not need to take all manner of electronic gizmos on board.

We work and travel differently today than we did 30 years ago.

There were no laptop computers back in 1975, a basic requirement for every person who travels on work nowadays. In addition, most people don't think twice about catching a flight at 10 AM to LA from New York, doing there work in LA, and taking a red eye back with papers, computer, etc. in tow.

Add to that the airlines don't exactly feed you on a 5 hour flight to the coast, so many folks bring somethign to nosh on, plus water or some refreshments.

Furthermore, many travellers don't want to deal with carousels and lost baggage. We travel lighter, are more casual about the way we dress, and thus taking a carry-on is both convenient and safe.
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RedChili
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 19):
Airline transport is not a right. If you do not like the travel conditions imposed upon you, you do not HAVE TO FLY! It is your choice.

Let me ask you: How many people are killed by airplane terrorism every year? In 2001, the figure was around 3,000, but that was an unusually high figure.

Now let me ask you: How many people are killed in car accidents every year? In the US alone, it's around 42,000 per year, while Russia has around 30,000 per year. The total figure for the whole world is probably more than a million.

So what if the governments would say: "It's paramount to reduce the number of fatalities from car accidents. Because of this, we will install speed locks in all cars so that no car (except emergency vehicles) will be able to drive faster than 30 km/h (20 mph). In this way, we will save several hundred thousand lives all over the world every year."
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TripleP
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:27 am

You make a good point Red Chili.

Its rather amazing how many of you are ready to capitulate and give up your way of life, etc. over this weeks' developments. Grow a pair already.

Carry-ons will not be permanently banned. And all talk suggesting such is downright silly.
 
tsaord
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:06 am

I wonder how the boarding process went since their were less carry ons? After flying myself and being in ORD on a daily basis some people still dont know what a carry on is and just ignorant to the fact that their carry on is too big! I hope airlines in the future enforce more stringent rules on carry ons!
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antoniemey
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 21):
So what if the governments would say: "It's paramount to reduce the number of fatalities from car accidents. Because of this, we will install speed locks in all cars so that no car (except emergency vehicles) will be able to drive faster than 30 km/h (20 mph). In this way, we will save several hundred thousand lives all over the world every year."

Nah, people would still be stupid and not pay attention to the road. Speed is a contributor to accidents, but only combined with aggressive driving and/or inattentiveness.

Quoting TripleP (Reply 22):
Carry-ons will not be permanently banned.

And if they are you can be damned sure I'll be writing protest letters to every government official I can get contact information for.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
jwenting
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 21):
So what if the governments would say: "It's paramount to reduce the number of fatalities from car accidents. Because of this, we will install speed locks in all cars so that no car (except emergency vehicles) will be able to drive faster than 30 km/h (20 mph). In this way, we will save several hundred thousand lives all over the world every year."

don't give them any ideas... The only reason cars don't have them yet in Europe is the simple fact that speeding tickets form a substantial part of the government budget (no kidding, they're an item on each year's budget here...).
The scheme was actually proposed here a few years ago. Every car would be fitted with speedlimiters which would be programmed through transmitters at each place where the speed limit changes by radio signals.

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 23):
I wonder how the boarding process went since their were less carry ons?

Given that everyone is handsearched whether the metal detector beeps or not, it's taken longer than ever.

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 24):
Nah, people would still be stupid and not pay attention to the road. Speed is a contributor to accidents, but only combined with aggressive driving and/or inattentiveness.

Since when does common sense play a part in government decision making?
"If it saves a single life it's worth it" is a far more commonly used excuse for draconian measures.
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AA777223
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:00 pm

No one seems to have thought about the fact, that while, yes, no overhead bins would save weight, that savings would more than be lost by the fact that cargo holds would be much more full of passenger baggage, allowing for much less cargo capacity. As we all know, many airlines fill up their partially filled holds with very lucritive cargo and mail traffic. Especially as more and more people travel strictly with carryon "roll-aboards," it would suddenly be a major shock to carriers when they had to check all that luggage, and give up their money-making, no-complaining, non-eating, no-IFE-requesting cargo.
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Geo772
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:49 pm

Once modern up to date x-ray machines are installed at Airports - something that should have happened years ago, but not done because of cost - then there is every reason for hand baggage to return to normal.

It is bad for the industry to have these restrictions and goes against many airlines policy on luggage as a whole. Most carriers promoted the use of hand baggage prior to Thursday as a way of reducing the amount of time a passenger spends waiting for bags at their destination. Something that benefitted both the airline and their customers.
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Icaro
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 12):
You know, not that I think about it, think about how much time could be saved in boarding if we didn't have to wait for people to stow their crap?

Yesterday I boarded a full A-321 at LHR in less than 10 minutes, incredible....
 
trekster
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 21):

Very good point there.
Whith the national limit in the UK of 70, why do cars get made that can travel faster then that, and often do. Whats the point of a restriction, if it can be broken at any point by any car (most of em) on the road at the moment.

The current restictions on baggage will lossen within the next few days. Books/papers etc should be allowed on, but regarding mp3's and stuff, well i dont know. I like mine, i put my best songs on to cheer me up on long journeys.
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1stfl94
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:34 pm

If they keep the ban the airlines might just put the cargo in the overhead bins. No point wasting any space which can be sold
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:55 pm

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 27):

Well at many airports in Norway, there seems to be good security:

EDS (Explosives Detection Systems) ( For checked in luggage )

CEIA metal detector portals

Partical detectors ( Detects organic and chemicals that can be used in explosives )

Tadar ( millimeter wave camera that detects objects hidden in peoples clothing or body )
 
A380Man
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting TinkerBelle (Thread starter):
What do you guys think? If this holds up, there's no point of putting them up which will be a big weight-saving issue.

You will keep needing the overhead compartments for at least jackets/coats. Anyway, I don't think the currently very strict policy of some countries will stay as it is. And airlines will not change their A/C cabins in a rush, just because of this (comprehensible) over-reaction. Relax and see what's happening next...
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 19):
If you do not like the travel conditions imposed upon you, you do not HAVE TO FLY!

 checkmark  And that is what is going to happen in the long run if restrictions became more strict. But as others noted, in US domestic travel, only liquids are banned.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
This is only temporary. No way will carryon baggage just go away. Besides, only the UK is banning all carryons at the moment I believe. Give it a month or two and things will be back nearly as they were.

 yes  As soon as the pinch hurts the airline budgets, they'll get things back in line. Its not for the airlines to determine how much the customers bring on board (within limits). There have been other threads on how the road warrior demands laptop+ipod+bose.

Last quarter was the first quarter the US domestic airlines were profitable as a group.  Smile If there customer base doesn't like the new rules... how much business can they lose before we return to airline layoffs? 5% 6% It isn't even as high as 10%.

Again, while the current crazyness is in effect I'll travel as *required* for business. But I'm not going to suggest it as I used to. Let's forget about Lightsaber booking any liesure travel for a while, shall we?  Sad My stance has been clear for a long time; I favored airlines with generous carryon provisions as that's my preference.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 26):
that savings would more than be lost by the fact that cargo holds would be much more full of passenger baggage, allowing for much less cargo capacity.

 checkmark  The "dead tree" version of the LA times I'm reading notes a "40% increase in checked luggage and officials noticing much less jostling for space aboard planes." Gee... must be great for the cargo revenue...  Sad

Later
"Security experts have repeatedly warned that long lines are vulnerable to possible terrorist attacks." (refering to the huge lines now for baggage)


LIghtsaber
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lightsaber
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:32 am

More "dead tree" news from the LA times.

Quote:
Passengers jamming multi-bottle wine carriers into overhead bins and under seats were a common sight on flights departing from San Francisco, Oakland, and Sacramento airports until Thursday's ban."

f

later in the article

Quote:
More than half of our tasting room sales are to people who plan to carry the wine onto the plane."

The pain is hitting the economy. And has anyone looked into a duty free shop lately? Or did you hear about the various stores that are pulling out of airports? Pretty soon airport managers will chime in when they see their retail rents plummet.

As my sister put it this morning: "I'm a business traveler, I cannot afford the delays imposed by checking a bag."
She's already cancelled sending her staff to a convention. (I admit, she was hesitating on going, but the current travel environment is a "deal breaker.")

I know airline staff dislike carryons... but the customers demand it. Do all customers? Of course not. Enough? Yes.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
PlanenutzTB
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 27):
It is bad for the industry to have these restrictions and goes against many airlines policy on luggage as a whole. Most carriers promoted the use of hand baggage prior to Thursday as a way of reducing the amount of time a passenger spends waiting for bags at their destination. Something that benefitted both the airline and their customers.



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 33):
Again, while the current crazyness is in effect I'll travel as *required* for business. But I'm not going to suggest it as I used to. Let's forget about Lightsaber booking any liesure travel for a while, shall we? Sad My stance has been clear for a long time; I favored airlines with generous carryon provisions as that's my preference.

The restrictions or bans on carry on luggage will hurt the airline industry, if they are kept in place. As a frequant business flyer, I travel weekly on short over night trips for meetings. Checking my luggage for each short trip will become too much of a burden on my time. If my luggage is lost on one of these short business trips, it can be a negative impact on my job performance.

I was traveling on Thursday when the restrictions were put into place. I checked my bag vs. carrying on. My bag made the connecting flight, I did not. Now my bag is lost. Here it is Saturday morning and still no bag. Business travelers on short trips cannot afford to put up with this BS for long.

This next week, I have already canceled an overnight trip due to the new policy in place. If you multiply my decision by the thousands of other business travelers who will do the same thing, the airlines will feel a major financial impact.

Now that the security experts understand the nature of the recent terrorist's threat, hopefully measures can be put into place to remove the restrictions. Just because the shoe bomber used his shoes for explosives, the TSA didn't ban shoes from flight, they just implemented procedures to check them.

My last comment on this will be OT, but the security measure that would have the most impact on airline security is passenger profiling (NOT restricting carry on luggage).
I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end.
 
dacman
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RE: Overhead Bins Things Of The Past?

Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:42 am

If the overhead bins are eliminated, then where will the Southwest Flight Attendents hide when playing tricks on passengers?

Think people think!!!

Mike
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