planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:59 am

Latest issue of Business Week (Aug 21) has a short article that comments on the possible merger buzz. This has been discussed before but the buzz is not going away. Hopefully there will be a merger, and that there will be other consolidations in the airline industry just as has occured in almost every other major industry... not just domestically but internationally as well. Tilton has said several times that there has to be industry consolidation and CO seems to be interested...

"One money manager who owns UAL shares, has close ties with executives, and asked not to be named, says Continental has not given up."

United And Continental?
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_34/b3998062.htm

Some See a United Airlines-Continental Pas de Deux
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=6272&excamp=sblink1
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:05 am

Bring it! I'd love to see a UA-CO merger. I'm sure both of us (so far) will get flamed because it's been beaten to death in countless threads!


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
coyoteguy
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 8:58 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:12 am

Unitinental? or Contited?
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:14 am

I wonder if they would stay seperate airlines. this is a huge merge if its true. and equipment doesnt match at all.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:16 am

I'm sure investors will be happy to note that UA and CO had the lowest and next to lowest operating profit margins reported by the big six airlines in the most recent quarter.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:18 am

Another week, another UA/CO rumor.

At least Tilton and Bethune weren't playing golf this week.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 3):
I wonder if they would stay seperate airlines. this is a huge merge if its true. and equipment doesnt match at all.

Just seeing some retro paint jobs for a merged UA/CO would be awesome. Burnt meatball on the T7! Ha!
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Coyoteguy (Reply 2):
Unitinental? or Contited?

Haha, the name of course would be United. Continental has done a lot to change its image, but the name Continental use to mean horrible things in the early to mid 1990s before Gordon Bethune came in and cleaned up the act and put customer service first with his famous quote "you can make a pizza so cheap that no one will buy it". Overall United is the bigger airline with more brand recognition throughout the country and world. United doesn't have that bad of a reputation either except for financial instability.

[Edited 2006-08-11 22:22:18]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 4891
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:24 am

A horrible idea of a merger. The ONLY merger that would make real sense is a Delta/Continental merger. THATS IT!
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Coyoteguy (Reply 2):
Unitinental? or Contited?

More like "Contenited"!

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 3):
I wonder if they would stay seperate airlines. this is a huge merge if its true. and equipment doesnt match at all.

They could make it work provided UA phased out its Airbus fleet (that would take a while) or used it only on routes in which UA maintenance personnel were already in place. Who knows how much longer UA plans to hold onto its 744s?


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
A horrible idea of a merger. The ONLY merger that would make real sense is a Delta/Continental merger. THATS IT!

What are you talking about?! Even as a DL fan, you'd have to admit that it would make little or no sense at all. Heavy European presence, yes, but no Asian presence?! No chance.

I still think that UA's decision to pawn off its JFK-LHR slot is a prelude to a UA-CO merger...

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 10):
What are you talking about?! Even as a DL fan, you'd have to admit that it would make little or no sense at all. Heavy European presence, yes, but no Asian presence?! No chance.

 checkmark 

Despite vastly radical fleets, corporate culture and service levels, I think NW brings much more to the table than CO would.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:47 am

I saw this on CNBC. I have to say I'm surprised - but then again, a US/HP merger surprised me too.

Let's see.

jetBluefan1
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:54 am

The bottom line to all this is speculation. We can speculate all we want about it, cast our opinions on whether this is good or not and the list grows.

If it is in the works, it is way beyond our control.

I have been with CO since 1987 and have learned, from the get go, to sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. It's all any of us can really do.
You can't cure stupid
 
rwsea
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
A horrible idea of a merger. The ONLY merger that would make real sense is a Delta/Continental merger. THATS IT!

That makes absolutely no sense at all, and neither party stands to gain a thing from such a scenario. Still no large Asian presence. Still weak in the Western US. Still no LHR. No thanks.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 4891
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 11):
Despite vastly radical fleets, corporate culture and service levels, I think NW brings much more to the table than CO would.

Many of you think that fleets are a minor issue when a merger occurs. It is a VERY major issue. Delta and Northwest have vastly different fleets, as well as corporate structures. A Delta-Continental merger together would allow expansion internationally with the combined fleet, including more 777s. With Delta's upcoming 777-200LRs, they could rival Northwest's presence in Asia.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
DALelite
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:56 am

Give me a break.

DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
commavia
Posts: 9634
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:56 am

Well, I suppose I'll join in on thse shameless predictions ...

Personally, I think it would be absolutely horrific for these two companies to merge. United has its own problems -- it is limping along out of bankruptcy, trying to nail down its identity in the new global marketplace, and desperately trying to turn a reliable, sustainable, strong profit. Continental, on the other hand, is going strong out of the gate and now (with American) is one of the strongest and best-run U.S. legacy carriers. Why on earth Continental would ever want to merge with the chaotic mess that is United.

However, if this were to happen, I tend to think that the United name would be kept over the Continental name. Despite Continental being a fairly globally recognized brand, I just have to think that United would be the name that survives. I just would be surprised if they went with Continental, but alas, I could be wrong.

One possible knock-on effect of a possible Continental-United tie-up: it could push American to actually spend some of its cash. While I don't think this will lead to a situation like after the United-USAirways merger was announced in May 2000, when basically everyone else scrambled to merge. What I think this could lead to, however, is for American to bite the bullet and really go after buying Northwest's Asia rights. Now, this is of course dependant on Northwest's state at this hypothetical point, including whether it still even exists, but American -- if given the opportunity -- may be driven to get a major foothold in Asia in order to compete with a hypothetically merged United-Continental, which would be a truly global airline, with dense coverage of Asia, Europe and Latin America.
 
KDCA
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:42 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:56 am

Wow, this would truly be an amazin route structure if they were able to pull off the merger succesfully.

Yes we all understand that there are problems with fleet structure, but think about it: the combined airline would only have five different pilot groups, although a more payscales. 744, 772, 767/757, A320/19, 737. Not too bad, UA already has all of these types in there structure.

Yes there are engine differences, but if you kept the CO 757s in EWR for Europe service and the UA 757s elsewhere wouldn't seem to be that big of a deal.

I think CLE would get pulled down do a focus opp, but I think the biggest question mark would become IAD. As EWR is a better base for European opps, what do you all think would happen to IAD, especially with WN setting up shop. Obviously, there would no longer be a need for a US codeshare.
 
nwa747-400
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:04 am

PLEASE NO! Why would CO want to ruin a good thing??!!
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
That makes absolutely no sense at all, and neither party stands to gain a thing from such a scenario. Still no large Asian presence. Still weak in the Western US. Still no LHR. No thanks.



Quoting 777fan (Reply 10):
What are you talking about?! Even as a DL fan, you'd have to admit that it would make little or no sense at all. Heavy European presence, yes, but no Asian presence?! No chance.

Hey, thanks for stealing my thunder!

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
With Delta's upcoming 777-200LRs, they could rival Northwest's presence in Asia.

How? Just cuz you have the planes, doesn't mean you automatically get the routes!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
What I think this could lead to, however, is for American to bite the bullet and really go after buying Northwest's Asia rights.

While I agree with you, I just don't see this happening because Asia is undoubtedly NW's strength - their name is derived from Northwest Orient.
What would NW have without its Asian base of ops?!

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 4891
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Nwa747-400 (Reply 19):
PLEASE NO! Why would CO want to ruin a good thing??!!

A Delta-Northwest merger would REALLY ruin a good thing. The fleets are almost complete opposites, and Northwest doesn't offer IFE on domestic flights except Hawaii. With whos'e aircraft are you going to use for Asia - Delta's or Northwest's? The fleet would have to be trimmed, and as you remove aircraft from the fleet, there is a loss in other routes.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
Many of you think that fleets are a minor issue when a merger occurs. It is a VERY major issue.

Actually, I think many of you think fleets are a major issue when it's a minor issue.

Whatever two companies decide to merge should continue running their existing fleets until it is time for them to be retired, and THEN they can worry about ordering a replacement which will cover both companies. Trying to prematurely usher fleet consolidation is just a waste of time and money.

Just as an example, a DL-NW merger should continue to run their seperate 737 and A320 fleets. When the aircraft start approaching retirement age, then you can worry about a replacement to cover both of them.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 4891
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 22):
Just as an example, a DL-NW merger should continue to run their seperate 737 and A320 fleets. When the aircraft start approaching retirement age, then you can worry about a replacement to cover both of them.

What about Delta's 767 and 777 fleet compared with Northwest's A330 fleet. Delta operates the largest 767 fleet in the world, and Northwest's A330 fleet doesn't compare. Delta operates 59 767-300ERs on international routes, and will add 8 767-400ERs to the international fleet. Northwest's A330 fleet is small compared to that. There is a big age difference in Delta's 767-300ER fleet and Northwest's A330 fleet, and due to age, the 767-300ERs will be retired first. Also, Delta operates many non-ER 767-300s and 767-400ERs on domestic routes, which are vital to Delta's domestic operations.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 23):
What about Delta's 767 and 777 fleet compared with Northwest's A330 fleet. Delta operates the largest 767 fleet in the world, and Northwest's A330 fleet doesn't compare. Delta operates 59 767-300ERs on international routes, and will add 8 767-400ERs to the international fleet. Northwest's A330 fleet is small compared to that. There is a big age difference in Delta's 767-300ER fleet and Northwest's A330 fleet, and due to age, the 767-300ERs will be retired first. Also, Delta operates many non-ER 767-300s and 767-400ERs on domestic routes, which are vital to Delta's domestic operations.

Like I say, you take your time with the fleet consolidation and look down the road. The 767-300ERs are being retired first? Line up some 787s. Keep the A330s running until they're due for a D-check, then bring in some more 787s to replace them. Rushing to get rid of the A330s because they're not compatible with the 767 is not going to be productive, especially when you're already tight on long-haul aircraft.

EDIT: I like how I managed to change this from a UA-CO merger discussion to a DL-NW one in such a short time. Oops!  embarrassed 

[Edited 2006-08-11 23:48:51]
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:51 am

If it happens the new airline would be known as "Pan Am."  Smile

Steve
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
A horrible idea of a merger. The ONLY merger that would make real sense is a Delta/Continental merger. THATS IT!

And how would that be any better? An effective airline merger combines companies with differing route networks, a la Delta/Western or some kind of improved coverage a la AA/TWA (let's not argue, the merger would have been successful had 9-11 not happened).

DL & CO won't merge because they will never be allowed to by the DoJ, and the merged carrier really gains very little in terms of coverage.
 
CO767FA
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:45 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
Haha, the name of course would be United. Continental has done a lot to change its image, but the name Continental use to mean horrible things in the early to mid 1990s before Gordon Bethune came in and cleaned up the act and put customer service first with his famous quote "you can make a pizza so cheap that no one will buy it". Overall United is the bigger airline with more brand recognition throughout the country and world. United doesn't have that bad of a reputation either except for financial instability.

Right, and if that were true, United would be Pan Am today.

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 25):
If it happens the new airline would be known as "Pan Am."

Now that is a name I could live with.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:47 am

As much as the name PanAm evokes a nostalgic feeling, I think it's sort of outdated. "Pan American" suggests that the airline serves the Americas only when in actuality, most legacy US carriers serve much more than that.
Here's my marketing analysis of the US legacies:

- Continental: suggests worldwide service (links each of the continents)
- United: name suggests that it "unites" people everywhere with its service
- Delta: tells you where its roots are
- US Airways: suggests that it is the preeminant US carrier
- American: see above
- Northwest: a throwback to Northwest Orient; tells you where its focus market lies and (back in the old days) the routes it used to get there

Just my two cents.

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:49 am

Here's an interesting twist to this manic thread:

Without studying the fine points of Bermuda 2, I beleive if UA buys CO, then Newark-London can shift to Heathrow since UA is a designated Heathrow airline. If CO buys UA, then all London authority (even UA's current IAD/LAX/ORD/SFO-LHR) would sift to Gatwick since CO is not a designated Heathrow carrier. Of course, Bermuda 2 could be re-tooled to accomodate this, but this could lead to another US airline negotiating into Heathrow (other than the newly merged UA-CO); DL possibly.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:54 am

Don't get me wrong on the use of Pan Am; first off, I just can't believe this merger will happen (but I could be wrong), and secondly, it seems like it would be a good way to avoid "us v. them" as well as an easy marketing campaign  Smile

Steve
 
User avatar
antoniemey
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:06 am

As much as I think this merger is a hellspawn that should never happen... you people ARE ignoring the possible names of ContinentalUnited or UnitedContinental... space between optional. a bit bulky names, yes, but neither of them sounds too bad...

On the DL/NW front... I still say "Northwest Delta" is a nice name.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
SP90
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:39 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:19 am

If this merger takes place, which airline alliance will they end up in? Star Alliance or Skyteam?
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18100
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 28):
Delta: tells you where its roots are

It is fairly meaningless to anyone outside the US.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 29):
Without studying the fine points of Bermuda 2, I beleive if UA buys CO, then Newark-London can shift to Heathrow since UA is a designated Heathrow airline. If CO buys UA, then all London authority (even UA's current IAD/LAX/ORD/SFO-LHR) would sift to Gatwick since CO is not a designated Heathrow carrier. Of course, Bermuda 2 could be re-tooled to accomodate this, but this could lead to another US airline negotiating into Heathrow (other than the newly merged UA-CO); DL possibly.

This is a big what if situation, but I think that a merged UA-CO would keep the United name since it is bigger and more recognized and keep the United certificate a lot like how America West bought US Airways but kept the name and certificate. Since the airline operating would still be United, I wouldn't think the change of ownership would cause them to lose Heathrow authority. However the new airline would also have Newark-London authority and would probably dump 5-6 flights a day on that route.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
copter808
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
Haha, the name of course would be United. Continental has done a lot to change its image, but the name Continental use to mean horrible things in the early to mid 1990s

Ah yes, but what has the Continental name meant since Bethune? And what has UA meant during the last 5 years?
 
dartland
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:09 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:55 am

My thoughts:

1) I agree that fleet concerns are not a big deal. When you have 2 large fleets, making 1 super-large fleets hardly conveys an advantage except for some better negotiated maintenance and materials contracts. Regardless, they'd be run as 2 separate entities for a while anyways.

2) Agree that UA/CO makes the most sense. Talk about route structure...essentially they'd cede the southeast US (including Florida) to US/AA/DL (let 'em fight it out) and then have amazing presence everywhere else domestically (with some minor exceptions), asia, europe, AND latin america.

3) Agree that United would be the name to keep. It's more about recognition than most recent memory. UA has a larger presence and more nostalgia -- definitely the name brand to keep regardless of how well CO has done in the past several years.

4) It would DEFINITELY put the pressure on AA. CO already rivals AA with latin american presence. This would put AA way back for asia and europe, and reduce the power of AA's signature long-hauls (transcon, for example). Would they buy NW? Hard to say (I think not), but it would hurt.

5) They would stick to Star. SkyTeam already has the DL vs. CO issue --- CO would be all too happy to jump to Star. US could even stay --- its limited international and domestic longhaul ops don't threaten the bread-and-butter of the new UA/CO entity -- it's hubs don't really compete (a little EWR/PHL, but not much), and the US code-share could give them nice leverage in the southeast and southweset US -- the two areas UA/CO would be largely absent.

6) DOJ?!?!?! I agree, this could be a problem. Especially with a US code-share -- this becomes one scary giant!

7) I don't by any means want to suggest they would pull it off and truly make the world's greatest airline -- but it's certainly fun to think about!!!!!!

PS: As for DL/NW --- I don't think this is likely. Only another major merger first would tempt this as a last-ditch effort. Even if it is possible -- it's further off. UA/CO are in a position to make deals soon, as they are out of bankruptcy and you have CO in a decent position to get funding for it. DL/NW would have to wait until at least one of them gets itself safely out of bankruptcy -- so 12-18 months before they would even get serious. (nobody in their right mind would fund the merger of 2 bankrupt airlines). Just my thoughts.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):
It is fairly meaningless to anyone outside the US.

I agree but that's just the way it is!

I think one's name says a lot about what they're about. DL is big internationally, but their roots are in the SE. American West's ceding to US Airways tells you they want to be associated with representing the US, not just the western US.

Like most, I agree that United would stick in this case since it has a long history as a global carrier.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
Amazonphil
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:37 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Another week, another UA/CO rumor.

At least Tilton and Bethune weren't playing golf this week.

It was bowling this week!  Big grin
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 36):
My thoughts:

Agreed on all of the above. I even think the DOJ wouldn't have much of an issue with it, especially with the situation the air carriers have been in the last few years. It wouldn't surprise me if, ten years from now, we were down to three legacy carriers with a bunch of smaller players.

I also agree that an DL-NW combo isn't going to be forthcoming, unless a CO-UA (or other major hookup) were to take place.

Another merger is inevitable, and I believe CO will be the one to start it. Where it will end up taking the industry is a big unknown, but it'll be an exciting adventure spawning numerous A.net threads for the next several years.  Smile
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Nwa747-400 (Reply 19):
PLEASE NO! Why would CO want to ruin a good thing??!!

My thoughts exactly. Continental is a great airline, and I always enjoy my flights with them. I have the exact opposite experience when I fly UA. IMO, Continental will not be the same carrier as it was if they merge with UA. Oh well - we'll see what happens.
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
goCOgo
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:24 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 29):
Without studying the fine points of Bermuda 2, I beleive if UA buys CO, then Newark-London can shift to Heathrow since UA is a designated Heathrow airline. If CO buys UA, then all London authority (even UA's current IAD/LAX/ORD/SFO-LHR) would sift to Gatwick since CO is not a designated Heathrow carrier.

To reiterate some of what was said above, Bermuda II only specifies that there are only 2 US LHR carriers. UA and AA's authorities come from Pan Am and TWA. If CO bought UA, LHR would have to be included. However, IAH is not a LHR city. It would have to remain LGW. (Interestingly, CLE is permissible to LHR by US carriers only, so in the event of a merger, CLE might find itself with LHR service)

Quoting KDCA (Reply 18):
think CLE would get pulled down do a focus opp,

Hey, CLE is getting some respect. It took 18 replies before someone pulled out the "reduce/close CLE" line. But seriously, many around here already see CLE is a focus city as it has similar operations to large operations considered to be focus cities (although it is a hub because CO calls it a hub), so taking CLE to a focus city doesn't imply that huge of cutbacks. But anyway, given the problems at ORD, CLE would make a nice reliever for domestic connections.

Of course, the "buzz" the article refers to could just be some intrepid business journalist reading one of the bazillion threads on A.net about a CO-UA merger.  Smile I would be surprised to see it happen.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:38 am

If this indeed did happen, the brand thing would cause a few problems
No doubt there would be hybrid liveries with titles such as 'United/Continental - Together serving tomorrow's USA' or something similar, before an indefinite brand was chosen and rolled out.
It would be very interesting if this did happen, but personall I see CO/DL more likely
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18100
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 37):
I think one's name says a lot about what they're about.

Well - yes and no. Obviously "British" and "Singapore" and "American" are extremely evocative of something specific.

I guess "Virgin" is, too, but of a different something - which is why it is such a successful name.

But Qantas only says anything once it is put in context, and I think of Texas as Texas, not as the Southwest.

Delta may have orginated in the triangle but it isn't there now (unless the delta got bigger or Atlanta moved) and while I've always enjoyed my flights with them I don't recall any Southern accents.

My point being, I don't really think it matters. For marketing, I agree that United should stay, if they unite, because the word "means" something evocative - soemthing rather more than a large body of land (continental).

But even then, people (not from the US) often ask me why the airline is called "United" - wondering what that has to do with geographic America. And few foreigners understand Continental as a name because very few foreigners ever think of "the continental United States" ("Contiguous Airlines"?).

So on the whole, I take the old show biz view - it doesn't matter what you call me, as long as you call me.

 Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 36):
6) DOJ?!?!?! I agree, this could be a problem. Especially with a US code-share -- this becomes one scary giant!

Don't forget having to pass muster with the EU... Wink DG-Comp is the short name for the division in Brussels that overlooks trans-border (and even continent) mergers. They have a LOT of say, as Jack Welch found out the hard way when GE tried to buy Honeywell.
 
socalfive
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 5:37 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
Haha, the name of course would be United. Continental has done a lot to change its image, but the name Continental use to mean horrible things in the early to mid 1990s before Gordon Bethune came in and cleaned up the act and put customer service first with his famous quote "you can make a pizza so cheap that no one will buy it". Overall United is the bigger airline with more brand recognition throughout the country and world. United doesn't have that bad of a reputation either except for financial instability

Continental BY FAR has the better name in today's market. The Lorenzo years Continental suffered, but before and since it's always been top-shelf.

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 22):
Actually, I think many of you think fleets are a major issue when it's a minor issue.

It's a HUGE damned issue, are you kidding?

I think CO should ride it out in the black and wait until NW liquidates and move hard and fast at their routes. They're best positioned to move in and fill the void. There's one too many legacy carriers out there right now and NW is just not going to pull it off, time to bury it and say a prayer, good riddance.

As for UA, stay the F#$% away from it. They may not however, egos might play the final card, but it would take forever, even if Bethune/Brennaman got involved again to make it make money.
 
ualcsr
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:39 am

Well, if you name it by its respective codes, you could come up with "UACO", and depending on your pronounciation, call it "waco" or "whacko". Hmmm.

All kidding aside, if this were to ever come to fruition, what happens to employees where there's overlap? Furloughs? Early retirements? How did US/HP handle this? Personally, I'm most interested in what happens to staff currently on furlough with recall rights.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:41 am

WORK HARD, FLY RIGHT! Let the dream continue!!!
That means no merger in my heart, it is all CO
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18100
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 45):
There's one too many legacy carriers out there right now and NW is just not going to pull it off, time to bury it and say a prayer, good riddance.

But what if you are wrong? What if NW does make it? There will still be one too many legacy carriers out there.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
KDCA
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:42 am

RE: Biz Week Reports On UA/CO Merger Buzz

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 48):
What if NW does make it?

True, but they seem to be the biggest "what if" at this point in time with their ongoing labor issues.

Mariner, you infer that someone will fall and if not NW I ask who?

It seems that AA and US have found solid, profitable footing. While people criticize the margins realized by UA and CO, they were nonetheless profitable. UA is still making change in route structure and product to better realize profit opportunities (KWI et ExPlus etc).

DL by all accounts is doing quite well with its international expansion and domestic fleet/route rationalization.

That leaves NW. A carrier who's domestic presence is entirely redundant. Connecting passengers at DTW are just as easily accommodated at CLE, CVG, or ORD. Similarly, MSP is covered by DEN, ORD, and MKE. NWs domestic route structure is not really that essential. Their important Asian route authorities would be better utilized by a carrier like CO ex IAH, AA, ex ORD/DFW/LAX, or DL ex ATL/LAX(maybe even SLC) than from DTW and MSP, let alone MEM.

Who is online