ramerinianair
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DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:29 am

DL has been cutting flights from ISP since WN has firmly planted it's-self there. DL had flights to FLL, MCO and PBI on DL express if I remember correctly. They also had 3x daily flights to CVG dissapear last fall. The ISP-ATL route had 4 daily flights at one point but was operating at 3 flights for a while until this month. It seems that DL cut ISP-ATL to just 2x daily flights. Is it worth having service for just 2 flights daily? I know they handle the CO express flights to BOS but it doesn't seem feasible to operate a station for just 2 flights daily. Does anybody have a clue as to DL's plans for ISP?
Thanks!
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
JetBlueAUS
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Ramerinianair (Thread starter):
DL has been cutting flights from ISP since WN has firmly planted it's-self there. DL had flights to FLL, MCO and PBI on DL express if I remember correctly. They also had 3x daily flights to CVG dissapear last fall. The ISP-ATL route had 4 daily flights at one point but was operating at 3 flights for a while until this month. It seems that DL cut ISP-ATL to just 2x daily flights. Is it worth having service for just 2 flights daily? I know they handle the CO express flights to BOS but it doesn't seem feasible to operate a station for just 2 flights daily. Does anybody have a clue as to DL's plans for ISP?

With DL's large presence at JFK, I don't think that ISP will be on their growth list anytime soon. Maybe they'll add another flight to ATL and maybe CVG will come back.. though likely as a CRJ. Anyways, I think DL is focused on building up JFK and adding even more destinations as they emerge from bankruptcy.
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:38 am

The DL operation within the last 3-4 years has all been via RJs so, it won't be a surprise that any added service would be utilizing RJs. They had an ERJ in the early spring flying into ISP - it was interesting. Are they running short on RJs after this latest international expansion or have they found better yields elsewhere? I find it hard to believe that DL revenue management can't make 3 RJs daily worthwhile! I think it is hard to staff the operation - The flights were each 4-6 hours apart. Maybe they will add a late morning flight that will connect from the ATL morning bank. The 6AM flight from ISP overnights so, it won't be too close to the first flight.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
flybywire777
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:47 am

I used the ISP to ATL and CVG often. Price a year or two ago was comparable to LGA, especially if you factor parking. Now they are more. The flights when I flew always had a good load. There are plenty of people on LI that want to avoid LGA and JFK.
 
avconsultant
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:55 am

I thought DL was having issues with the airport authorty.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:36 am

It was always full for the three years I worked at ASA.

TokyoNarita.
 
ADXMatt
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:47 pm

My parents used to live on Long Island so I flew to ISP often.

I know I always got bumped or got on the ISP-ATL as the last seat.

CO Express pulled out of Islip in May due to low yields competing with WN.

ISP is a fortress for WN and has pretty much pushed everyone out. First US mainline, then AA and AA Eagle, CO Exp.

Spirit left the day WN started service.

Who is now left? CO Connection to BOS with a B1900 (2x weekdays) ALB was dropped. US Exp to PHL/BOS

I think WN is the only mainline carrier left

At least WN is good to pass riders and jumpseaters.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:32 pm

I cann't fly non-rev now but WN's prices are very low anyway. I do not like them - better, I can't stand flying them. It just boils my blood, for various reasons not important to this thread.
Anyway, does anybody see expansion or termination in their crystal ball?
Thanks,
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
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deltadawg
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:40 pm

I believe you will see a complete pull out when they find they utilize the a/c better somewhere else. Why compete with 3-4 flights a day at an airport where there is such a dominant carrier.

They are better off going into another airport where they can get better use and yields and better serve a community. Besides, JFK is up the road and is the focus now for the NYC/Long Island area.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
avconsultant
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting RamerinianAir (Reply 7):
I do not like them - better, I can't stand flying them. It just boils my blood, for various reasons not important to this thread.

I can understand if you had the opportunity to ride in business class, but if a guaranteed seat is cheaper than non-reving with record load factor's consider yourself lucky compared to the poor guys commuting between ATL-DFW.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:06 am

This sounds alot like what they've done at Manchester (MHT). DL abandoned mainline here because WN is so strong. But the two shouldn't really go hand-in-hand because WN can't get you to either ATL or CVG, so I'm totally puzzled as to why a 'strong WN' at ISP or MHT would cause DL to pull back???

In any event, I think the management at Delta is betting that they can abandon mainline at a station while still having a presence there. Then, when things improve, they come back with mainline and all will be swell. They are betting that customers will flock back to DL when they come back, and my belief is that customers will flock back to DL mainline when/if they return. You can already see selective evidence where mainline is returning.

The real issue is gate space at the stations DL pulls mainline from. If they replace mainline with RJs, then presumably they don't need the mainline gates. The airports, in many cases, control the gates and it should be a 'use them or lose them' mandate. So if another carrier comes swooping in and wants mainline gates, I would think that the airports would have every right to hand them over, no? That would be the big obstacle standing in the way of DL coming back to stations with mainline flights: the demand might be there, but the gates won't.

Chris in NH
 
ramerinianair
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:07 am

Chris,
You have a good point about the gates. There is something weird going on at ISP though. WN financed the new terminal and upgrades to the airport here. DL has had a gate with a jetway for a while but, they want to renovate that area of the terminal soon. WN has a 30 year lease for free at ISP.
I don't think gate space is a problem - as for now, they have 2 gates and only use one. The AA And US gates are still open. The CO gates are closed for renovation.
DL's problem was that seats from ISP were being taken by connecting pax to low yielding destinations. They now are controlling the amount of seats they will offer from ISP to Florida, LA, Mexico etc. If you look at it, the flight from ISP-ATL will offer T seats but if you try to book thru to Florida, it's Y, B ot M fares only. Their yield management should allow them to make better profits than it seems they are making. Flights are solid now - especially since they are down to 2x daily flights from ISP.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
FutureFO
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:39 am

I used to do the ATL-ISP runs all the time. It was good for pay purposes. And the LI people are alot nicer than the mainland people, especially the LGA pax. I would to start going back on my trips.



Sean
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
joelfreak
Posts: 23
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:31 pm

The issue is really if B6 will go to ISP...if they do, expect to see alot of quick reactions from DL and the like...
 
ramerinianair
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:31 am

B6 has been threatening for years now. They need to shit or get off the pot!
By quick reaction, do you mean leaving?
Thanks,
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
dsa
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:51 am

Where do you think B6 would start to?

DSA>>>>>>>>>
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DLAgent
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 6):
ISP is a fortress for WN and has pretty much pushed everyone out. First US mainline, then AA and AA Eagle, CO Exp.

It wasn't WN that pushed everyone out. It was the consumers choice to push them out. There is a big difference!
 
Humberside
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Dsa (Reply 15):
Where do you think B6 would start to?

Florida - MCO, FLL, Maybe TPA

Maybe even also to BOS
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
ramerinianair
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting DLAgent (Reply 16):

It wasn't WN that pushed everyone out. It was the consumers choice to push them out. There is a big difference!

Well, I have to disagree slightly to this statement. I am a loyal DL customer for a few years now. I try to always fly DL, even if they are a little more expensive. Currently, their prices seem to be aroun $10-$20 higher is most domestic markets that the other carriers. This doesn't bother me - especially since I know they are trying to emerge as a profitable carrier and I will probably get an upgrade for my elite status. HOWEVER, when DL is $75+ more expensive, it is hard for me to justify the money. I understand that DL hasn't quite gotten their revenue management techniques down yet but, they have to be within $50 for me - many times at ISP, they aren't. I(read my signature) would rather commute to JFK/LGA or even PHL/EWR to avoid WN!
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:40 am

If jetBlue were to ever fly to Islip, I wuld bet it would be FLL and PBI only. They could take advantage of Southwest's weak position in South Florida, something they cannot do with Tampa or Orlando.
a.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:00 am

I think they would try for a ISP-IAD flight but not ISP-BOS (CO and US currently have that market).
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
DLAgent
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting RamerinianAir (Reply 18):
Well, I have to disagree slightly to this statement. I am a loyal DL customer for a few years now. I try to always fly DL, even if they are a little more expensive. Currently, their prices seem to be aroun $10-$20 higher is most domestic markets that the other carriers. This doesn't bother me - especially since I know they are trying to emerge as a profitable carrier and I will probably get an upgrade for my elite status. HOWEVER, when DL is $75+ more expensive, it is hard for me to justify the money. I understand that DL hasn't quite gotten their revenue management techniques down yet but, they have to be within $50 for me - many times at ISP, they aren't. I(read my signature) would rather commute to JFK/LGA or even PHL/EWR to avoid WN!

Whether you agree or not, it still is the consumer who buys the tickets that drive whether a route continues or not. If consumers don't make the flight profitable, we have been told that at DL we will no longer feed a route that can be removed and the resources placed in something that will.
 
lat41
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RE: DL At ISP; Down To 2 ATL Flights Daily

Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:22 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 8):
They are better off going into another airport where they can get better use and yields and better serve a community. Besides, JFK is up the road and is the focus now for the NYC/Long Island area.

Sounds like some Delta"ganda" Better serve a community? While I understand the carriers desire to not load flights up with $99. giveaway fares, they have succeded in strangling the market and offering comically high tariff to the point where passengers will be pushed to WN or to other airports where they may not necessarily chose DL. It is happening at Providence, Manchester NH along with Islip and others.