VHVXB
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Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:34 pm

Quote:
Budget airline Jetstar has gained approval from the United States Department of Transportation (DOT) to start marketing its long haul services between Honolulu and Australia.

Jetstar intends operating three Sydney-Honolulu flights per week and two Melbourne-Honolulu flights per week with a fleet of Airbus A330-200s, offering two classes of service.

Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce said that in the next few weeks the airline will start accepting flight reservations for its Hawaii services along with an announcement of its launch date.

Expect some very cheap introductory fares to HNL. I wonder what other possible US destinations that JQ can serve in the future if this route does go well
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/...ghts/2006/08/15/1155407802607.html
 
commavia
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:47 pm

Will this replace current Qantas service on the route?

And what does this mean for the long-term fate of Honolulu's Qantas Club?

Thanks in advance.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Will this replace current Qantas service on the route?

I dont think it will because qantas only offer a 4x weekly service? so QF will keep that and may downgrade to a 767, Hopefully not before December anyway!

Are they still expecting to start next year once they get the two A330's with the range?
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
ANother
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:07 pm

You have to read the DOT order carefully. DOT is granting Jetstar the authority to operate to HNL - but not the schedule proposed.

Quote:
Consistent with Jetstar’s statement on the record that its illustrative service proposal was not a request for a specified number of frequencies or an invoking of any procedure under the U.S.-Australia aviation agreement with respect to the frequencies that Jetstar may operate between the United States and Australia. We confirm that our action here granting Jetstar authority is without prejudice to any determination we might reach on Jetstar’s formal filing for frequencies under the provisions of the U.S.-Australia bilateral air services agreement, and shall in no way bc deemed an approval of such filing.

See: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf97/408956_web.pdf
 
VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
You have to read the DOT order carefully. DOT is granting Jetstar the authority to operate to HNL - but not the schedule proposed.

Thanks for that ANother.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:22 pm

Are you sure theyre not replacing QF? The HNL-SYD market isnt all that large.
 
IADLHR
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:24 pm

It is my understanding that the service can not start under the current US/Australia bilateral. Though I could be wrong.

If the bilateral has to be amended or renegotiated,to allow the service to start, the US will probably only accept openskies.

Any additional insight and information is appreciated.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:33 pm

I think they will be replacing QF. Can someone tell me what they mean by 332's long enogh to the route. I know QF ordered 332's, but whats the range issue?

MCOflyer
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ANother
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 6):
It is my understanding that the service can not start under the current US/Australia bilateral. Though I could be wrong.

I believe the ASA allows any US/Australian airline to operate - but new entrants are permitted a maximum of 4 weekly flights. Jetstar is asking for 5 (3xSYD, 2xMEL).
 
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LTU932
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
I know QF ordered 332's, but whats the range issue?

Maybe QF's A332s don't have ETOPS 180 yet. I'm not sure though, because technically, an A332 should be perfectly capable of flying to HNL. Remember, AF operate one of the largest A332 flights, which is CDG-NRT at 5256 nm.

According to the Great Circle Mapper, SYD-HNL is a still air distance of 4403 nm, while MEL-HNL is longer at 4783 nm. That should be well within range for an A330-200.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:51 am

Its something to do with QF's A332's. They have had to order 2 more just for this route as theirs do not have the range. I cant remember the reason. QF do quite well with J class on this route honeymooners and retirees etc all like to fly J, well thats what ive heard any way
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Sydscott
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
I think they will be replacing QF.

No they will be operating alongside QF on the route

http://www.jetstar.com/pdf/news/20060411b.pdf

"Honolulu increase to eight flights a week, with Jetstar offering three per week from Sydney and two per week from Melbourne in addition to Qantas' three weekly Sydney-Honolulu flights."

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
Maybe QF's A332s don't have ETOPS 180 yet.

Qantas currently has permission to fly 180 ETOPS but Jetstar must be granted it in its own right by CASA before they can do it. I believe the application is still being worked through.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...tory/0,20867,19825600-2702,00.html
 
QantasA380
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
I think they will be replacing QF. Can someone tell me what they mean by 332's long enogh to the route. I know QF ordered 332's, but whats the range issue?

NO, they're not replacing Qantas, they are going to be operating alongside Qantas on the three days a week that Qantas doesn't fly SYD-HNL...

The issue with the current QF A332 is that Qantas specified a lot of options to make the aircraft more suited to short (1.5-5hr) flights, rather than more suited to long (as in SYD-HNL) flights... so to operate these four aircraft on "long" routes they need to be modified.
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onedude
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 10):
QF do quite well with J class on this route honeymooners and retirees etc all like to fly J, well thats what ive heard any way

Unfortunately the reason Jetstar is entering HNL and Qantas will eventually withdraw is the lack of full fare paying J class passengers in the pointy end. This is purely a route of leisure, VFR and very low business class passengers - plus with HA, AC and NZ it is a very low yielding route.

Cheers,
onedude
 
RichardJF
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:49 pm

Jetstar flying to HNL will that get much airfreight? It shouldn't put off HA flying HNL-MEL,SYD with 744 (secondhand) while moving the 763 to HNL-BNE. HA will do well northbound out of Australia to mainland with passengers and well southbound with freight. Increasing Australia improves HA's business immediately IMO. Dunckerley being too conservative at the moment.
Perhaps as few as 3-4 744's would enable HA to compete on SYD,MEL,BNE,ADL to SEA,PDX,SAN,LAS,LAX,SFO.
QF needs about 115 787's to do the same thing.
 
koruman
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:55 pm

HNL-BNE?

Oh my goodness, is RichardJF actually Simpilicity under a witness protection change of identity?

I'm trying to go on NZ to HNL next Easter, and find that having axed LAX-HNL, which admittedly struggled, they have lost all their European HNL feed, and reduced AKL-HNL to twice weekly.

And so, I have reluctantly concluded, that HNL is a poor market proposition for Australia and NZ, and I hardly think that HNL-BNE is viable.

(Having said that, if Air Canada tried YVR-HNL-BNE it just might have an outside chance...)
 
RichardJF
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:06 pm

Koruman - In fact you are right and I forgot to mention QF's 787's will of course be 15% cheaper to run per seat than HA's 744's.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 12):
NO, they're not replacing Qantas, they are going to be operating alongside Qantas on the three days a week that Qantas doesn't fly SYD-HNL...

They will! I've heard QF will drop the route probably late 2007.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 15):
and reduced AKL-HNL to twice weekly.

Currently operating 4 weekly. There is a one off 744 this Thursday even, not sure why but I guess it is the peak season to go to HNL from down under.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 16):
Koruman - In fact you are right and I forgot to mention QF's 787's will of course be 15% cheaper to run per seat than HA's 744's.

Your talking like HA already have 744's, it won't happen.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 16):
HA's 744's.

HA has just come out of Bankruptcy and they have just got a few more 763's, they have said that they want to keep the fleet nice and simple. I doubt that they would have the need or want 744's.

Will we see QF downgrade from the 743 or will it keep the 743 to give it a run once in a while?
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
kalakaua
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 6):

UA doesn't fly to Australia from HNL, but they weren't too happy.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
koruman
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:59 pm

I'm confused about Air NZ's HNL services (as everyone can probably tell).

Next Easter their website shows only a twice weekly NZ9/10, the daytime flight up to HNL and the overnight return.

Are there also going to be additional NZ11/12 services, overnight up to HNL and daytime back to AKL?

It's a shame: I still think that axing the HNL-LAX sector gave away a lot of UK / Europe market share of people wanting to stopover to/from Australia and NZ.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):
Are there also going to be additional NZ11/12 services, overnight up to HNL and daytime back to AKL?

I'm not sure but it is to far out to tell though for next year. The current NZ11/12 only started on August 12 and I think run until the end of September.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):
It's a shame: I still think that axing the HNL-LAX sector gave away a lot of UK / Europe market share of people wanting to stopover to/from Australia and NZ.

Yes you may well be right there but i think the fact they couldn't carry pax from LAX-HNL probably meant they didn't have the greatest loads even with those coming from Europe. Though they did fly the route for a long time!
 
ZKNBX
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:18 pm

Actually, If NZ had the foresight to give Freedom longer legs, it could have placed 1 or 2 B763 with Freedom, to handle lower yielding routes like HNL, and certain destinations in SE Asia.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 18):
Will we see QF downgrade from the 743 or will it keep the 743 to give it a run once in a while?

I think we will se the B763 on this route. The B743 will to do domestic runs

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
According to the Great Circle Mapper, SYD-HNL is a still air distance of 4403 nm, while MEL-HNL is longer at 4783 nm. That should be well within range for an A330-200.

Not for QF's A332
http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/seatMap332
 
VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:36 pm

Heres some more info on Jetstar's plans in to Hawaii

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,20144465-23349,00.html
 
777ER
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:39 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 10):
Its something to do with QF's A332's. They have had to order 2 more just for this route

Didn't QF order 2 more A332s because of the A380 issues?

Quoting Koruman (Reply 15):
I'm trying to go on NZ to HNL next Easter, and find that having axed LAX-HNL

NZ code-share on UAs LAX-HNL services

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 21):
Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):
Are there also going to be additional NZ11/12 services, overnight up to HNL and daytime back to AKL?

I'm not sure but it is to far out to tell though for next year. The current NZ11/12 only started on August 12 and I think run until the end of September.

I flew on NZ11 on August 13th from HNL-LAX and I didn't like the 9am flight from HNL as I would have prefered the late night NZ9 flight that was cancelled
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VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 25):
Didn't QF order 2 more A332s because of the A380 issues?

They ordered 2 A330's not sure if it was the 300 or 200.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 26):
They ordered 2 A330's not sure if it was the 300 or 200.

They were 200's which will mainly be used to China and India and are for QF.

2 additional A332's were earlier ordered for JQ aswell.
 
miami1
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:40 pm

Onedue is right. Qantas will eventually withdraw from the route. HNL bleeds money and hasnt made a profit in many years. J class is almost all Frequent flyer redemption pax. The flights are generally full in Y mostly over Australian school holiday periods, and as for the Qantas club, i wouldnt be surprised if they keep it open when only Jetstar operates there. I mean if they are going to codeshare on full service QF services to Singapore ex Australia why would QF not keep the Club open, those HNL flights are full of frequent flyers on there " freebies" and they LOVE THE CLUB.
 
9252fly
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 15):
(Having said that, if Air Canada tried YVR-HNL-BNE it just might have an outside chance...)

AC has operated to MEL in the past,I believe the route was YYZ-HNL-BNE. I don't think it preformed as well as hoped,then again,it did okay.
It will be interesting to watch what happens a year from now,when and if AC launches the YYZ-LAX-SYD route. With the HNL-SYD route being low yield and very competitive,don't be surprised if AC drops the sector in favour of routing passengers through LAX from YVR,YYC,YEG. Once AC receives their 787 aircraft,then it may be sensible to operate YVR-SYD non-stop in both directions if there is a viable market for the service.
 
ANother
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 29):
It will be interesting to watch what happens a year from now,when and if AC launches the YYZ-LAX-SYD route.

When? Don't you mean IF? AFAIK AC does not have traffic rights LAX - SYD. The Canada - Australia ASA gives Canadian airlines rights via SFO, HNL and one other point to be agreed by Australia. AC may want LAX, but they don't, yet, have the rights.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 30):
The Canada - Australia ASA gives Canadian airlines rights via SFO, HNL and one other point to be agreed by Australia. AC may want LAX, but they don't, yet, have the rights.

Actually I'm sure that Air Canada would rather not stop anywhere on the route and fly it direct all the time when the appropriately ranged aircraft comes along. That way they can avoid their passengers having to deal with US's Customs en-route.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 17):
They will! I've heard QF will drop the route probably late 2007.

That's just speculation. At the moment that's not the plan because Qantas needs to build the Jetstar brand up a bit in the market. Once that's done I'm sure they'll drop it.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 23):
I think we will se the B763 on this route. The B743 will to do domestic runs

We'll almost certainly see the 763 deployed here. The A333's are all busy, and with the Jetstar A332's going the days that Qantas isn't they will want to hold down capacity growth a bit while they build the market. Esp since QF will want to direct people onto the lower cost Jetstar services.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 29):
AC has operated to MEL in the past,I believe the route was YYZ-HNL-BNE. I don't think it preformed as well as hoped,then again,it did okay.

Nope... MEL was operated Nov 2001 to August 2002.
3pw YYZ-HNL-MEL, with a transfer of pax on the YVR-HNL-SYD service.
Quite smart scheduling, but the service was suspended due to the timing...

After S11 and major restructure of carriers all around the world.

I think AC will resume MEL some time in the future.

As for BNE, only Canada 3000 operated there many years ago, 2pw i think, before going bust.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 23):
Not for QF's A332
http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying...ap332

That's full payload MTOW. Obviously you'll have less range if you max capacity out, as it will restrict you with the fuel load. Those numbers don't mean this is the MTOW with full fuel, or am I missing something here.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 29):
Once AC receives their 787 aircraft,then it may be sensible to operate YVR-SYD non-stop in both directions if there is a viable market for the service

Yes that does seem like a better idea for AC

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 33):
That's full payload MTOW. Obviously you'll have less range if you max capacity out, as it will restrict you with the fuel load. Those numbers don't mean this is the MTOW with full fuel, or am I missing something here.

You maybe right there.