UN_B732
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DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:18 pm

http://www.planebuzz.com/2006/08/breaking_news_delta_talking_to.html

Sources tell us today that Delta Air Lines has asked Republic Holdings to backstop for competitor Mesa Airlines -- because of Mesa's inability to provide aircraft as provided for in its contract with Delta for part of its expanded JFK service.

Under an agreement between Delta and Mesa, Mesa, under its Freedom Airlines operation, is slated to fly 12 37-seat De Havilland Dash 8 aircraft in support of Delta's expanding hub operations out of JFK.

But this week it was announced that Delta was replacing Dash-8 aircraft with Beech 1900s on several Delta Connection flights that are slated to begin next week. Additional new service is slated to begin in September.

Yeah. That's right. Beech 1900s. Goes right along with Delta's latest advertising image of a "sanctuary in the sky" doesn't it?

Today we were told by sources that the problem appears to be that Mesa apparently leased Dash 8 100s from a Canadian lessor. Fine, but one big problem. The aircraft did not have GPWS kits installed.

We understand that Mesa now has one aircraft equipped with the necessary GPWS, but that availability of additional GPWS systems for the aircraft is nil. None to be had. Maybe for months.

As a result, Mesa apparently has only one Dash 8 and 2 1900s available to start the new Delta Connection service out of JFK next week.

Not surprisingly, we understand the folks at Delta are none too happy about this situation. They are so unhappy, in fact, that we understand they have contacted Republic Holdings about providing aircraft.

As one of our sources told us, Republic would certainly have no problem getting 10-12 Embraer 135s up and running to provide feed -- if that is what Delta chooses to do. Tuesday, Republic folks were told, according to one source, "to ramp up."

Not sure how all of this is going to work out -- but it's clear Delta does not want to run its new highly-touted JFK service utilizing Beech 1900s.

As for Mesa, it's clearly not a good week.

This news comes the same week load factors for its new "go!" Hawaiian operation came in lower than what the company had previously indicated. Load factor for July was 73.9%. Not surprisingly the airline promptly announced yet another fare sale for its Hawaiian operation after the traffic numbers were released -- with select $29 one-way fares through the end of the year on sale through the end of this week.

Finally, Mesa posted poor numbers in the DOT Air Travel Consumer Report for June that was released this week. Not only did the airline post a 5% cancellation rate in June, it also posted the most complaints of any airline. On-time performance for the airline was 66.7%.


-Mr. X

If they go for the Embraer 135, yields had better be good, as it's not a very economical aircraft. I would LOVE to see ExpressJet take some Delta flying out of JFK, but I don't see that happening.
What now?
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:25 pm

DL already has E135's on the JFK-BDL and JFK-PVD routes starting in September.

Unfortunately, this is the price you pay for doing business with Mesa. Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting UN_B732 (Thread starter):
Mesa's inability to provide aircraft as provided for in its contract

Mesa falling short on a contract? Nah...never Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
OttoPylit
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.

Remember that quote next time your on your little LCC spiel. You get what you pay for.  Wink



OttoPylit
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UN_B732
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:00 am

At least Mesa pays it's FOs  Wink It's happened before - but hey, Mesa wants to get their dirty hands everywhere.
-Mr. X
What now?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 4):
It's happened before - but hey, Mesa wants to get their dirty hands everywhere.

That's pretty much correct. People call AS a "codeshare wh0re", then what is Mesa, a "Subcontract wh0re"  Silly ?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
People call AS a "codeshare wh0re", then what is Mesa, a "Subcontract wh0re"

Hehee.. nah.. a 'ho gets paid.. they just a bitch!

Sorry.. had to do that.. dang MadTV
Aiming High and going far..
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:51 am

And this is why DL undoubtedly put in performance clauses in its Mesa contract and will walk away if the price is not right. After seeing the ATC/runway problems at JFK this summer (not all of which are because of turboprops but they certainly haven’t helped), DL would dearly love to have an excuse to get rid of Mesa. Since the JFK operation has apparently done well financially, there is not near as much fear of taking on bigger, more expensive planes than the DH8s.

Mesa has been used over and over again by carriers to further their ends and then dumped after the purpose has been served. Mesa gets what it dishes up.

Republic is a very well run company and I’d love to see more of them. Maybe they’ll buy their Ohio neighbor Comair which flies most of the rest of DL’s NE RJ operation because they too are a good operator.
 
COERJ145
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:05 am

Wait so if Republic takes it over, will it be until the DH8s can come online, or permenantly?
 
loggat
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:15 am

Well, Republic is covering them for the time being regardless, however, if Mesa does not get their act together, then the whole JFK DH8 fiasco will be replaced by Chautauqua's E135's (also 37 seats) on a permanent basis. That's the current version of the story, anyway.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
GGpillow
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:21 am

nice of you to plagiarize Holly like that... she's never liked Mesa. There are other issues with the planes that Mesa is finding out about - this is what happens when you buy "lemon" airplanes vs. a "lemon" car.. too bad they don't have carfax for aircraft!
 
drewwright
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:06 am

I heard that Mesa flight crews only get paid block time (sked flight time) for trips regardless of how much time they go over. Good luck with that on the international push.....
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:34 am

Just noticed something odd..

Air Midwest (Mesa B1900 aircraft) used to do the 3x CHS-RDU and 2x ORF-RDU flights for US. When I look at flytecomm, it looks like they have been switched to Gulfstream International. Is this true? Is this a possible source for the B1900 Delta is looking to use?

Just wondering..

Charleston, SC Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4730 08:08 AM Arrived
Norfolk, VA Gulfstream Intl Airlines 5723 11:03 AM Arrived
Charleston, SC Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4690 02:23 PM Arrived
Charleston, SC Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4733 05:28 PM Arrived
Norfolk, VA Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4735 08:06 PM Arrived
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flyibaby
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:52 am

This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 13):
This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?

Well, apart from the fact that you'd have to find quite a few pilots that would to go through many weeks of training on the plane type, how about acquisition costs, high maintenance costs, general high CASM for the plane, and lack of suitable spare parts.
 
m180up
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
Air Midwest (Mesa B1900 aircraft) used to do the 3x CHS-RDU and 2x ORF-RDU flights for US. When I look at flytecomm, it looks like they have been switched to Gulfstream International. Is this true? Is this a possible source for the B1900 Delta is looking to use?

We had this in a bulletin, IIRC it is because they have one of the aircrafts unavailable, and they have a wet lease with Gulfstream to operate the flights. It's only the routes operated by that single aircraft that are going to be operated by Gulfstream

[Edited 2006-08-16 10:11:18]
Werner from SAL
 
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Amwest2United
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:45 pm

Mesa is starting to fall apart IMO. They are taking planes from markets and replacing them with wet leased flying. How profitable could that be? I know DL is very unhappy with the set up in JFK and I would suspect that you will see the flying transition to Republic/Chautauqua on a more permenent basis. I heard there were many strings attached to the DL/YV contract in DL's favor. I personally would love to see Mesa move to DL and leave UA, it would be the best thing to happen to UAX in years.
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UN_B732
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:47 pm

Mesa still works successfully with HP & UA - and only has a few wetleased planes here and there.
They're cheap - and I guess sometimes that leads to failure.
-Mr. X
What now?
 
m180up
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 17):
Mesa still works successfully with HP & UA - and only has a few wetleased planes here and there.
They're cheap - and I guess sometimes that leads to failure.

Because HP still has the contract, but once it's over the plan is to bring most of the express flying in house. Operated by the fully owned regional carriers.
Werner from SAL
 
silentbob
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:36 am

I've heard the same about going in-house but that's subject to change.
 
srbmod
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 13):
This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?

In the thread on Skyway picking up some of the ex-DH 328JETS, it was mentioned that most of those have already found homes in other parts of the world, as Skyway picked up the best of what's left of them. Plus YV would have to put together operations manuals, training manuals, and policy and proceedures for not only the flight crews but for the inflight crew as well. That would take longer than it would take to either bring in a new airline or get the a/c upgraded.
 
FutureFO
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:53 am

MESA has until 31 Oct until to get their act together or they are gone, outahere, finito. We will not take the DH8's, they are MESA's nad they can have them. Our CEO does not want to go backwards with turboprops. Bad enough we are getting CRJ's. We are also getting back alot of the MCO flying that was assigned to Freedom.



Sean
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MCOflyer
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:53 am

I wouldnt be surprised. RP has a good reptutation compared to YV's. If RP can get EMB-135's to do the work, good. I'll be very happy knowing that a company has the right eqpt to do the job instead of putting smaller planes to do the job.

MCOflyer
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COERJ145
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, this is the price you pay for doing business with Mesa. Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.

Or Great Lakes.
 
flyibaby
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 20):
In the thread on Skyway picking up some of the ex-DH 328JETS, it was mentioned that most of those have already found homes in other parts of the world, as Skyway picked up the best of what's left of them. Plus YV would have to put together operations manuals, training manuals, and policy and proceedures for not only the flight crews but for the inflight crew as well. That would take longer than it would take to either bring in a new airline or get the a/c upgraded.

I find that surprising considering that little movement has occurred with any of the aircraft since they were parked in MYR months ago, with exception to the daily engine runup of one or two a/c.
 
MarkTPA
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:36 pm

Talking to a buddy of mine today, he confirms that Gulfstream is doing some flying for US that Mesa can't do. He says they were told that if they can prove themselves, that they might just continue to do it on a perm basis or take some of the flying away from Mesa.
As far as the Mesa debacle for DL at JFK, Republic can fill in only temporarily as the planes that they have are to be used for the Continental flying they were awarded. That is to start later this year, so will Republic have enough aircraft to do both, I don't think so.
 
FutureFO
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RE: DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK

Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:17 pm

The JFK planes are not the ones going to SA)">CO, those are coming from the US Codeshare. The SA)">DL planes are staying put. Gulfstream is not operating for SA)">DL at all. Air Midwest is filling in until we take over the JFK runs. Also SA)">UA is pulling flying from MESA as they are not happy with the 51% On Time factor that YV is giving them. Maybe they should close down some of their contracts and restructure a bit to figure out a new business plan.



Sean
I Don't know where I am anymore