BMIFlyer
Topic Author
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Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:26 am

Pilots at UK budget airline Bmibaby have voted to go on strike in a row over pay, a move that threatens disruption at a number of airports.

Also...

A separate strike ballot of pilots is taking place at the main BMI airline.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4799099.stm

Doesn't look good, and if the mainline side strikes also, what will be the future of BD?



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
Demoose
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:29 am

Great timing! This is just what bmi need right now.
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:35 am

Talk about bad timing. The UK is going through on of it's worst aircraft terror threats in many years and these BMI pilots want to go on strike...dumb, dumb, dumb. How could their capacity be absorbed by other airlines who are also in bad shape due the new security rules? How will already overwhelmed airlines and airport security cope with this? I hope they reconsider their choice or maybe the Government could say they cannot go on strike due to national security issues.
 
Eurohub
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
The UK is going through on of it's worst aircraft terror threats in many years and these BMI pilots want to go on strike...dumb, dumb, dumb

To be fair to the WW pilots, this strike action was threatened long before the current security crisis came on the scene.

It is incredible though that the union can take offence to its members receiving a pay rise (of 2.4% - source BBC) without the airline having entered into negotiations about said rise beforehand. I mean, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
cwldude
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:28 am

Foolish move, I'd gladly get rid of them all and hire a whole new bunch if it was that easy!

Hope this doesn't go ahead anyway, would cause uproar down here at CWL!
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
 
gkirk
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 4):
Hope this doesn't go ahead anyway, would cause uproar down here at CWL!

Yes, all 3 flights a day they have from there would cause uproar  Wink
 duck 
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
cwldude
Posts: 573
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 5):

I can hardly contain my laughter!

actually... that was quite funny! well done!
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
 
bennett123
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:58 am

I think that talking would be smart.
 
Christa
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 5):
Yes, all 3 flights a day they have from there would cause uproar

At least CWL has a successful low cost airline, unlike the Scottish airports... oh  banghead  Wink

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 4):
Foolish move, I'd gladly get rid of them all and hire a whole new bunch if it was that easy!

Sure, good thinking there Alex. They are entitled to go on strike, its legal. I'm sure that they have good reason to go on strike.

Regards,
Chris
Croeso i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd - Welcome to Cardiff International Airport
 
sk736
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Eurohub (Reply 3):
It is incredible though that the union can take offence to its members receiving a pay rise (of 2.4% - source BBC) without the airline having entered into negotiations about said rise beforehand. I mean, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't

I think you've missed the point - the pay rise is being imposed on the pilots - bmibaby refuses to enter negotiations on the 2006 pay rise (although apparently it will in 2007) and that's why they're upset.
 
gkirk
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Christa (Reply 8):
At least CWL has a successful low cost airline, unlike the Scottish airports... oh banghead Wink

flyGlobespan, Ryanair and easyJet are not successful?  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Horus
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 4):
Foolish move, I'd gladly get rid of them all and hire a whole new bunch if it was that easy!

With all due respect you shouldn't jump to such a conclusion without knowing the facts. Among other factors BD's pilots were told last year that they would be involved in discussions regarding a wage increase. Instead the company has offered them a small percentage increase with a 'Take it or leave it' attitude. Besides this issue of striking was being decided long before the incidents of last Thursday.

Good luck to the pilots. Fair Pay. Fair Play

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Christa
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):
flyGlobespan, Ryanair and easyJet are not successful?

I know that the air is thinner up there in bonnie ole' Scotland, but weren't you able to detect the sarcasm in my post?  Wink
Croeso i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd - Welcome to Cardiff International Airport
 
trekster
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:19 am

They are not going to strike until after the bank holiday weekend, OUT OF COURTESY lol. So hopefully by then it will have settled down a bit

Funny though in a way
Where does the time go???
 
boysteve
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
Instead the company has offered them a small percentage increase with a 'Take it or leave it' attitude

Please remember that this small increase that you talk about is bang in line with the latest UK inflation figures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4793599.stm

Therefore it is unlikely that the travelling public will have much sympathy with them, especially when UK employment figures are on the rise;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4797419.stm

This is all before any allowance for the much recent UK security measures are factored in! These pilots and the union need a rethink quickly for their own sanity.
 
Horus
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 14):
Please remember that this small increase that you talk about is bang in line with the latest UK inflation figures.

That's not the issue here. They accepted a mediocre increase last year and in return they were promised formal discussions this year. Unfortunately management went back on their promises. This is a major sticking point but there are others.

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 14):
Therefore it is unlikely that the travelling public will have much sympathy with them, especially when UK employment figures are on the rise;

Employment levels are also at a record high.

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 14):
This is all before any allowance for the much recent UK security measures are factored in! These pilots and the union need a rethink quickly for their own sanity.

Unfortunate timing but this was planned weeks if not months a go.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
boysteve
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 15):
That's not the issue here. They accepted a mediocre increase last year and in return they were promised formal discussions this year. Unfortunately management went back on their promises. This is a major sticking point but there are others.

What was the increase last year? What are the other sticking points?

Quoting Horus (Reply 15):
Employment levels are also at a record high

I know that they were a couple of years ago but is that still the case today? Can you provide links to back this up as I have?

Quoting Horus (Reply 15):
Unfortunate timing but this was planned weeks if not months a go

I agree but if BMI Baby has lost £X million over the past week then employees and the unions now need to re-valuate their expectations so that they are in line with the current financial situation that BMI baby now find themselves in.
 
Eurohub
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting SK736 (Reply 9):
I think you've missed the point - the pay rise is being imposed on the pilots - bmibaby refuses to enter negotiations on the 2006 pay rise (although apparently it will in 2007) and that's why they're upset.

Thats the problems with trades union involvement - they inisist on all this negotiation that wastes valuable time and money. WW want to give their pilots an inflation-level pay rise and so they have done so. If there had been negotiation beforehand, might it have been along the lines of: -

WW Mgmt: "We have looked at the figures and can offer 2.4% this year to pilots"

Balpa: "No we want more"

WW Mgmt: "We really don't have the budget for anything bigger this year"

Balpa: "OK, well if you don't, we'll ruin your business by striking during the peak season..."

etc. etc. etc.

Employees of any company aren't entitled to expect a pay rise each year and of those that do receive one - something along the lines of inflation would be considered reasonable.

Each year, my company "imposes" a pay rise on each of its employees as a matter of policy. The rise is at least in line with inflation and whilst no-one ever says "thank you", no-one ever complains!

Eurohub
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
sbworcs
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Eurohub (Reply 17):
Each year, my company "imposes" a pay rise on each of its employees as a matter of policy. The rise is at least in line with inflation and whilst no-one ever says "thank you", no-one ever complains!

Exactly - I too have no choice over my pay rise - I am told that over the next 4 - 5 years I can expect a pay rise in line with inflation. I do not strike over this!
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:07 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Thread starter):

This could seriously cripple an already crippled BD.

Thanks
PR
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
sk736
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Eurohub (Reply 17):
Thats the problems with trades union involvement - they inisist on all this negotiation that wastes valuable time and money

It helps prevent the exploitation of workers by unscrupulous employers (like yours, if the following quote is anything to go by....)

Quoting Eurohub (Reply 17):
Each year, my company "imposes" a pay rise on each of its employees as a matter of policy. The rise is at least in line with inflation and whilst no-one ever says "thank you", no-one ever complains!

No one ever complains? Sounds like you're treted like mushrooms.
 
monkeyboi
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:29 am

I am an ex-bmi employee.

The bmi management treat their staff, whether pilots or baggage handlers, with absolute contempt. I am not talking just in respect of pay or conditions, but more in the way of how the management actually speak to/treat their staff.

They are un-professional, do not involve themselves in dialogue or negotiation. During my seven years at bmi, any new manager that came along with a genuine desire to improve the morale at bmi, or change the work culture, didn't last long. Ineviatably they would not see eye-to-eye with the chairman and be pushed out as soon as the spending of any money was involved.

Maybe industrial action is the only way that the autocratic chairman will realise that he cannot go on treating his staff like s~~t indefinitely.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:39 am

I didnt think bmi staff were paid ?

I thought they were all voluntary..

as no one flies bmi.. how do they pay the bills.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
carnoc
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:36 am

Strike action by bmibaby pilots has been narrowly avoided after a tight vote by union members.

Full details available @ http://en.carnoc.com/list/0/826.html

Cheers.
 
Eurohub
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:37 pm

Quoting SK736 (Reply 20):
It helps prevent the exploitation of workers by unscrupulous employers (like yours, if the following quote is anything to go by....)

I can assure you that I am not an unscrupulous employer; but I am of the strong opinion that trades unions in their unstinting desire to justify their own existence actually prevent senisble dialogue between employers and their employees by insisting on being involved at every level on a whole variety of decisions that often didn't require any discussions in the first place.

I used the language of BALPA to describe our policy on salary increases, but in essence, the management team discuss the performance of each individual over a 12 month period before deciding on a suitable increase that is always in line with inflation as the barest minimum. If, God forbid, we recognised a trades union; that would stop in an instant and we would be obliged to give everybody the same increase and stop rewarding those who put in the most effort more than those who put in the least.

I can't comment like Monkeyboi on the other issues behing the scenes at BD and WW, but the headline news behind the strike threat to me is laughable and hence my comments above.

Eurohub - the Mushroom of A.net
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
Candid76
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RE: Bmibaby Pilots To Strike / BMI Pilots To Vote

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 pm

I wouldn't worry too much - there is plenty of demand for type rated 737 pilots (or pilots with 737 experience that can be converted to Airbus) so I think if these guys are so unhappy at WW they could jump ship. And WW wouldn't have much trouble replacing them.

Pilot strikes are often threatened in the UK but always seem to be averted.

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