r311music
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B6 And FL At RIC

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:36 pm

I was just wondering how is B6 doing with it's new service at RIC. Also has FL been doing well? I used to live down there and was just interested in how the Richmond market responded to LCC's at RIC as opposed to driving to BWI for WN.

[Edited 2006-08-17 06:04:30]
confusing use of time
 
NASBWI
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:32 pm

So far, we've been holding our own pretty well in RIC. I don't know how it's performing financially, but I do know that the loads have been decent overall. As for LCCs, don't forget that WN and FL serve ORF, which is a lot closer to RIC than BWI  wink .
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teixeim
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:57 pm

Based on what I read in local media (TimesDispatch.com) and here on A.net, I think Richmond travelers could use B6 and FL more.

The main response seems to be to fly more on the carriers already in the market before the LCCs arrived because fares went down in general. The last few month's traffic have surpassed all previous usage records, which is good news for sure.

What the airport admin folks believe is that the low cost carriers have helped reduce the number of travelers driving to BWI, DCA, RDU, ORF, etc. and has brought in some regional travelers such as flyers from Fredericksburg, who find the drive to RIC easier than the drive to DCA/IAD/BWI.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:05 am

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet...icle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190276669

JetBlue's July LF was 75.5%, which sucks. Don't know what FL's was, but there's something wrong with this. The people of RIC should be flocking to these low-fare options, just as they have done at so many other second-tier cities across the country.

JetBluefan1
 
Evan767
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 3):

Then get out of here. Delta flights have still been full as usual. Did you guys hear about what happened to two ramp employees at RIC? They got in a car accident. RIP.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
MAH4546
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 3):

JetBlue's July LF was 75.5%, which sucks.

That hardly "sucks". 75.5% is quite an excellent load factor for a short haul business route.
a.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
That hardly "sucks". 75.5% is quite an excellent load factor for a short haul business route.

If that were the LF for a slower month such as Oct. or Jan., then it would be just fine. However, July is in the midst of the summer travel season; one would think that JetBlue could at least support a 80% LF (its system LF was 84% for the month). Kids are out of school, 4th of July weekend, etc.

Now if the yields were at least decent, then this would be just fine. But starting fares to JFK starting between $59-$74 isn't going to cut it for B6. I think that one of the JFK flights should be cut altogether and BOS should go down to 1x on Tues and Wed - at least as we move into the slower fall/winter seasons.

JetBluefan1
 
B6DC10
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 3):
JetBlue's July LF was 75.5%, which sucks.

The BELF for the E190 is much lower than 75.5%
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MAH4546
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 6):
If that were the LF for a slower month such as Oct. or Jan., then it would be just fine. However, July is in the midst of the summer travel season; one would think that JetBlue could at least support a 80% LF (its system LF was 84% for the month). Kids are out of school, 4th of July weekend, etc.

No, 75.6% is quite a high load factor for a short haul route anyway you slice it. I have no idea if jetBlue is making money at RIC, but 75% load factors are excellent for what is a predominately business route, in which most leisure traffic would more than likely drive.
a.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 7):
The BELF for the E190 is much lower than 75.5%

The BELF will most likely below 75.5% in the future, but not now. The economies of scale for the plane have not yet been reached. Keep in mind that the aircraft utilization for the E190s reamins very, very low at 8 hrs./day and is not projected to get to 10-11 hrs./day until 3Q07.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
No, 75.6% is quite a high load factor for a short haul route anyway you slice it. I have no idea if jetBlue is making money at RIC, but 75% load factors are excellent for what is a predominately business route, in which most leisure traffic would more than likely drive.

I guess you do have a point. It's just that I was expecting something quite a bit higher for the busy summer travel season. But why is CLT having LF's in the 90's while RIC is stuck in the mid-70's? CLT is a predominately business route too, is it not?

The real test will be non-summer months. If B6 can keep its LF at RIC in the high 70's with fares to JFK from $74 o/w and $10 more to BOS, then it should be just fine.

JetBluefan1
 
MAH4546
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 9):

I guess you do have a point. It's just that I was expecting something quite a bit higher for the busy summer travel season. But why is CLT having LF's in the 90's while RIC is stuck in the mid-70's? CLT is a predominately business route too, is it not?

Yes, it is. Though unlike with Richmond, Amtrak and driving are not practical alternatives.
a.
 
teixeim
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:03 am

According to the TimesDispatch article today, JetBlue's arrival has driven record traffic at RIC, but neither FL or B6 are making money in our market accoding to a member of the airport planning commission. Is this true? Can anyone here confirm P&L for specific routes?

At any rate, I'm looking forward to seeing B6 E190s alongside Delta's 738s this fall at RIC. According to the DL website, the 738s are returning on the RIC-ATL route in Q3/Q4.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:21 am

Jetblue came to RIC and the other carriers lowered their fares to match B6s. A lot of the passengers are still flying with their previous carrier and enjoying lower fares. If they have been flying DL for the past few years and are DL FFs why would they switch to B6 when DL has the same fare ? When B6 came to EWR I didn't fly B6 I flew CO for the new low fare. ( I actually paid less than B6s fare )
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vatveng
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 1):
As for LCCs, don't forget that WN and FL serve ORF

Almost...

Both serve the Norfolk area, but if we're splitting hairs: WN flies to ORF, FL serves PHF (Newport News).

And PHF and RIC are barely an hour's drive apart. Before B6 and FL came to Richmond, RIC was losing quite a large number of pax to PHF. Especially those pax living on the east side of the Richmond area, who could drive to PHF in less than an hour. (Heck, they could even make ORF in 65-70 minutes if they lived really close to I-64.)

[Edited 2006-08-30 05:25:39]
 
FATFlyer
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Teixeim (Reply 11):
According to the TimesDispatch article today, JetBlue's arrival has driven record traffic at RIC, but neither FL or B6 are making money in our market accoding to a member of the airport planning commission.

The article quotes a Chamber of Commerce leader encouraging pax to fly FL and B6 more, but also quotes him that they shouldn't forget to fly the legacy carriers.

"We have nothing against the legacy carriers [such as US Airways or Delta], but we need to make sure people understand the importance of this. We got what everybody wanted, which was lower fares. . . . But the load factors are not where they would like them to be. If we don't use them, we might lose them. They need a certain load factor to be successful," Ukrop said.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet...0290396&path=!news&s=1045855934842
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Evan767
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RE: B6 And FL At RIC

Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Teixeim (Reply 11):
At any rate, I'm looking forward to seeing B6 E190s alongside Delta's 738s this fall at RIC. According to the DL website, the 738s are returning on the RIC-ATL route in Q3/Q4.

No way! When is this supposed to happen? I am looking in November and I don't see any. I sure will be excited when I do though!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...

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