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mariner
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F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:27 am

A long article in the Rocky Mountain News about Frontier's expansion in Mexico:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_4928783,00.html

There's a couple of tidbits - Southwest to Mexico as a given - and some hints at future Frontier service.

Mexico City is mentioned - again! - and "Central America", but now where in Central America.

I'm guessing Costa rica.

cheers

mariner
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jmy007
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:56 am

"In four short years, Frontier has become the second-largest international carrier at DIA, behind just United. "

How did they come to this conclusion? Is UAL's Canada and Mexico flights (as there are no Europe or Asia flights with UA) more than F9 Mexico operations?

"Frontier now flies more passengers internationally from Denver than British Airways and Mexicana combined and has recently edged past Lufthansa, according to DIA traffic reports"

Well duh, you have serval a319 going to Mexico a day, vs 1 (Ba) 777 or (Lh) 747 a day, of course passenger number are going to more on F9.


I'm always leary of stats put up in the media, as they are always seem to be off.

[Edited 2006-08-19 22:00:52]
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mariner
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 1):
Well duh, you have serval a319 going to Mexico a day, vs 1 (Ba) 777 or (Lh) 747 a day, of course passenger number are going to more on F9.

Oh. I read it as the combined number for BA, LH and Mexicana. As in:

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 1):
British Airways and Mexicana combined

Then add Lufthansa to that.

Remembering that Frontier does not have "several A319's going to Mexico a day" all year round.

At the moment, I think DEN-CUN is down to 3 or 4 x weekly, for example.

???

mariner
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king
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:41 am

The article mentioned WN saying Mexico was just a matter of when and not if. With the land grab currently taking place, what will be left for WN?

As for Central America, do we know if Frontier has rights to fly beyond CUN to Belize, Honduras, Costa Rica or even out to one of the Caribbean destinations such as Jamaica? Can F9 use CUN as a connecting city for the purpose of gaining more range and possible feed?
 
juventus
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
Mexico City is mentioned

Frontier will land at MEX sooner or later.

Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
Southwest to Mexico as a given

I have a feeling that when WN applies for Mexico service, they will do so with a vengeance. They'll probably apply for 7 or 8 routes just to get things going. Not sure about DIA to Mexico, more like PHX, MDW and several California airports.
 
fly727
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting King (Reply 3):
With the land grab currently taking place, what will be left for WN?

Most important, what will be left for the Mexican carriers? In the mean time, let them fight for the TLC-MTY market. Some people out here really can't see further down their nose. Sheesh!

RM  Yeah sure
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
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mariner
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:14 am

Perhaps the RMN reporter, Chris Walsh, got a trip to CUN on Frontier, because there's an article about Cancun in the same edtion.

"Cancun - Better Than Ever"

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_4929177,00.html

It mixes up stuff about Cancun with Frontier, but there are interesting numbers for the pace of Frontier's post hurricane ramp-up:

88 Number of Frontier departures to Cancún in June 2005

108 Number of departures in June 2006

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 5):
what will be left for the Mexican carriers?

The Mexican airlines are reasonably well protected by the bilateral.

cheers

mariner
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dutchjet
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
Perhaps the RMN reporter, Chris Walsh, got a trip to CUN on Frontier, because there's an article about Cancun in the same edtion.

You are simply too clever, Mariner.

Interesting article about Frontier, there are a couple of errors (ie, JetBlue will be flying JFK-CUN and not EWR-CUN) but its better researched than most articles about commerical aviation that appear in the general press.

I find it odd that Frontier itself referred to CUN as a hub....Frontier does not offer any connection possibilites at CUN. Hub, to me, implies connections, focus cities, to me, simply means cities with a good amount of service.

It will certainly be interesting to see how Frontier does with the Denver-GDL route.....a route more oriented to business travellers instead of leisure pax, and MEX must be in F9's future plans.
 
fly727
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
The Mexican airlines are reasonably well protected by the bilateral.

Sure do, but my point is that many city pairs are being operated only by US carriers while the newcomers south of the border doesn't seem to bother. Anyway, I always liked WN's pretzels over salted peanuts here.

RM  Wink
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mariner
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
I find it odd that Frontier itself referred to CUN as a hub.

There's the heart of it, Dutchjet.

The problem for anyone who follows Frontier is that the CEO is an outrageous destination tease.

Three years ago he started talking about "a Caribbean island". That didn't happen.

Or did it? Cozumel is certainly "a Caribbean island" and Frontier started flying there last season despite the hurricane. It has been a big success.

Two years ago, he started talking about "Central America" - read Costa Rica? It is now in print:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4016660

So I would guess winter 2007 will see Frontier in Costa Rica.

He started talking about Mexico City about six months ago, but now (in the same article) there is a caveat:

"Certainly there's an opportunity there," though not necessarily from Denver, Hodas said.

Not DEN-MEX? Then where to MEX?

So the "hub" at CUN. They have always been cautious before, calling it "a focus city".

But on the last conference call, an analyst referred to CUN as a hub and the CEO said "it's okay to call it a hub."

I have to assume that there will be more Frontier service at CUN, not less, but I am not sure how they plan to justify "hub".

Of course, there was talk of a Mexican subsidiary when they set up the holding company six months ago......

 Smile

cheers

mariner
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jetblueatjfk
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:35 am

Quote:
It recently received tentative approval to launch flights from Newark International Airport to Cancún, a service it hopes to start this year.

Comon, JetBlue is adding JFK-Cancun not EWR-CUN.

B6jfk airplane 
 
Kohflot
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.

Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 9):
an analyst referred to CUN as a hub and the CEO said "it's okay to call it a hub."

Though F9 doesn't offer any passenger connections through CUN, it's likely a 'hub' in the sense that it gives the airline the opportunity to swap aircraft around for maintenance, etc.

Quoting King (Reply 3):
With the land grab currently taking place, what will be left for WN?

I don't think WN will necessarily be interested in Mexico's beach resorts. Has anyone noticed the traffic signs at HOU are both in English and Spanish? I know HOU doesn't have immigration and customs facilities (yet), but I doubt most the people that read the Spanish part of those signs are from Cancun or Los Cabos. I bet Southwest's first foray into Mexico is for the benefit of VFR and any business traffic - and they might even be their first redeyes, with the common practice of late night transborder travel. Aircraft can leave SAT, ELP, ABQ, PHX, LAS, MDW, and HOU (eventually) after a long day of domestic flying (with connecting traffic onboard too).. operate into Mexican cities like GDL, MTY, TAM, AGU, TLC, BJX, DGO.. and be back in the morning for another day of domestic flying.

Decent fares could mean the 'Southwest effect' isn't limited to our borders. Southwest is keenly aware of the developing latino market in this country. Hence http://www.southwest.com/vamonos/ ..

[Edited 2006-08-20 08:46:28]
Ask why..
 
king
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:02 am

For those of you who are interested, Frontier will have aircraft in the following (non-F9) cities conducting charters -

GJT 8/31 0830A
AMA 8/31 1155A
MTJ 8/31 1550P
AMA 8/31 2325P
NZY 8/31 2310P
GJT 9/1 0055A
PUW 9/1 0915A
MGM 9/1 1630P
LAN 9/1 1540P
BZN 9/1 1125A
BFI 9/1 1405P
BFI 9/2 1840P
MGM 9/2 2030P
PUW 9/2 2310P
LAN 9/2 1655P
PUW 9/2 1855P
BZN 9/2 2245P
MTJ 9/4 1820P
XNA 9/8 1610P
LAR 9/8 0700A
RIC 9/8 1335P
XNA 9/9 2100P
RIC 9/9 1730P
LAR 9/9 2018P
PUW 9/15 1605P
BZN 9/15 1335P
LAR 9/15 1130A
PUW 9/16 2140P
BZN 9/16 1700P
LAR 9/16 1755P
GFK 9/22 1550P
PUW 9/22 1015A
EUG 9/22 1830P
PUW 9/23 2205P
GFK 9/23 1905P
EUG 9/23 2300P
PUW 9/23 0110A
HUT 9/25 1015A
LAR 9/29 0700A
SYR 9/29 1325P
PUW 9/29 1155A
COS 9/29 1330P
MSO 9/29 1100A
COU 9/29 1410P
BZN 9/29 1300P
FLG 9/29 1525P
PUW 9/30 2005P
SYR 9/30 1920P
LAR 9/30 220P
COS 9/30 1730P
BZN 9/30 0305A
COU 9/30 1800P
MSO 10/1 0250A
TRI 10/3 1200P
PUW 10/6 1610P
EUG 10/6 1825P
PIH 10/6 1010A
FNL 10/6 1825P
LAR 10/6 1400P
FNL 10/7 1900P
PIH 10/7 2125P
LAR 10/7 0110A
EUG 10/7 1920P
PUW 10/7 2130P
SGF 10/7 1010A
ALO 10/7 1245P
TRI 10/8 1700P
CDC 10/11 0800A
MIA 10/11 1900P
CDC 10/12 0230A
PUW 10/13 0835A
MLU 10/13 1610P
LAR 10/13 1715P
BZN 10/13 1300P
MIA 10/14 1200P
MLU 10/14 2310P
PUW 10/15 0235A
LAR 10/14 1740P
BZN 10/14 0255A
MLU 10/20 1610P
LNK 10/20 2030P
MSO 10/20 1100A
MSO 10/21 2130P
MLU 10/22 2310P

There are dozens of other city pairs, but they are all F9 cities. I'll have to look a couple of the above city codes up. It's football season.
 
nwa757boy
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:17 am

Do you know who the charter is for when they are going to LAN?
 
king
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:46 am

LAN will be the Univeristy of Idaho.

Forget a few more -

SDF 10/24 1635P
PVU 10/27 1005A
COS 10/27 1530P
PUW 10/27 1145A
BUR 10/27 1515P
FNL 10/27 1600P
FOE 10/27 1440P
BUR 10/28 1915P
FOE 10/28 1730P
MWA 11/3 0930A
YNG 11/3 1300P
FNL 11/3 1525P
YNG 11/4 1700P
MWA 11/4 1835P
 
Garri767
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:43 am

and any idea what AMA is for?  stirthepot 
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
captaink
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:15 pm

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 11):
operate into Mexican cities like GDL, MTY, TAM, AGU, TLC, BJX, DGO.. and be back in the morning for another day of domestic flying.

Please someone save AGU. I am here and generally use GDL cause fares are too high out on AA or CO ERJs. Southwest to AGU would be rather interesting.. Big grin

Meanwhile GDL works just fine, some 3 hours driving away, looking forward to seeing Frontier.
There is something special about planes....
 
ghost77
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:43 pm

Low-cost airlines also are taking a close look. Southwest Airlines, for instance, has said publicly that entering Mexico is not a matter of if but when.

Don't delay! Please Herb! Bring WN to Mexico! It will be really surprising to see them landing here first and before Canada.

Last year Mexico passed the UK as the second nation with the most passengers flying in and out to the US, first is Canada, wonder for how long will that title be...

I see someday soon Mexico-US will be the most biggest market worldwide in terms of pax between two nations.

g77 APM
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captaink
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 17):

The options out of here are awesome, and to some many smaller cities. I miss flying out of MEX though, the options are fantastic there.
There is something special about planes....
 
fly727
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 17):
Don't delay! Please Herb! Bring WN to Mexico! It will be really surprising to see them landing here first and before Canada.

I would be surprised if Herb can make that happen, since he is no longer WN's CEO.

Of course, he can always reach for the phone.
RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
atrude777
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting King (Reply 14):
MWA 11/3 0930A
YNG 11/3 1300P
FNL 11/3 1525P
YNG 11/4 1700P
MWA 11/4 1835P

WOO HOO

MWA My hometown regional airport!

I hope to be on the flight!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ScottB
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RE: F9/Mexico - Overview, History (and WN, B6 Etc.)

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting King (Reply 3):
The article mentioned WN saying Mexico was just a matter of when and not if. With the land grab currently taking place, what will be left for WN?

The sole issue may be availability of operating authorities to the cities Southwest might try to serve in Mexico, but the real "land grab" on those sorts of routes appears to only be happening in places like LAX, NYC, and South Florida. And in any event, the two key business routes of LAX-MEX and LAX-GDL have been tied-up for years. If HOU had sufficient facilities, HOU-MEX/MTY/GDL would be excellent routes for WN.

And in any event, Southwest has served Mexican customers for decades with their flights to border cities like HRL, ELP, SAN, and TUS.

Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
I'm guessing Costa rica.

I would guess SJO as well, though GUA, BZE, or LIR could be dark horses in the race.

In any event, it appears that Mexico service has provided Frontier with a nice, profitable niche to help boster the airline's fortunes. It's good to see them meeting with success south of the border.