MSYYZ
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Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:35 am

Sorry if the video doesn't work , here is the link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkwTcvDh-nU

Any idea what happened ?

[Edited 2006-08-20 23:37:12]
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Alitalia744
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:46 am

i think i read that the a/c made a turn or transition that put too much force on the wings causing them to literally snap off the fuselage
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cedarjet
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:59 am

The huge trim change is what triggered it, at least at that moment. Obviously a pre-existing structural weakness, tankers aren't supposed to shed their wings when they release their payload.
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hmmmm...
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:09 am

Well, if it happened right after dropping the load, then the plane wants to climb instantly putting stress on the wing/fuselage connection. If there is a weakness in the wing root, then I can believe that caused it. I suppose a tanker would have weakened wing roots from the stress of doing that over and over again during its career.

Bombers, such as the B-52, when they drop their load, it is not instantaneous. The bombs cascade out in sequence limiting the stress at that wing connection. Water bombers release that huge load all at once. Considering that most of them are old airplanes to being with, I wonder how many others are out there waiting to fail like that.
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redflyer
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

This is a crash that occurred in California back in 2002 resulting in the fatalities of the 3 crewmembers. Cause of the accident was a crack in the main wingspar. Here's a link to the NTSB summary report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020621X00954&key=1
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Flyboy14295
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:05 am

That must have been a big boom when it hit the ground. Another reason to make a few passes over the fire when dropping a heavy load.
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EMBQA
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:08 am

Early C-130 had a big problem with cracking wing spars.
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N911ME
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:47 pm

Yeah - it was a C-130A from Hawkins & Powers Aviation in Greybull, WY (N130HP).....very sad story, but not an uncommon occurrence for many older heavy air tankers.
 
Stretch
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:20 am

All the more reason to have that 747 tanker do some drops. I remember watching the news of this event, truely sad to see 3 souls lost in such a way.

~Stretch
 
fanofjets
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:01 am

The Martin 202 had the same problem, and the entire fleet had to be grounded until the problem was fixed. Northwest lost at least two Martins in this fashion, which prompted the airline to sell of its fleet. This was not a problem with the later, much-improved Martin 404.

I heard that the early Lockheed L-188 Electra models had similar problems with wings. And there was the heart-rending crash of a C-5A Galaxy during the Vietnam War, claiming the lives of hundreds of children who were being airlifted to safey.
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N867BX
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

Pilot error.

The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

In the end the cause of the crash was inadequate terrain separation.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
I heard that the early Lockheed L-188 Electra models had similar problems with wings. And there was the heart-rending crash of a C-5A Galaxy during the Vietnam War, claiming the lives of hundreds of children who were being airlifted to safey.

If you're implying that the C-5 crash occurred because the wings failed or otherwise had a problem, I think that's incorrect. From globalsecurity.org:

On 04 April 1975 the US was involved in the evacuation of more than 2,000 Vietnamese orphans out of Saigon as North Vietnamese forces marched on the city. A C-5, which was returning to the Philippines after delivering war material, and a C-9 were loaded with children from Saigon'' orphanages and female government employees. These children were to be adopted into families in the United States and Europe. The mission, named Operation Babylift, was the first of more than 30 planned. Workers at the airport carried the children -- more than 100 infants and 140 older children -- into the C-5 one by one. A majority of them were only 2 years and younger. Almost half the children sat in the cargo compartment of the aircraft below, while the remainder sat in the troop compartment upstairs. At 23,000 feet the aft door was torn from the aircraft. The safety investigation would later reveal one of the door locks failed and created a pressure overload on all the other locks. When that happened, it blew out the doors, and the C-5 then experienced a rapid decompression. When the aft door blew out it severed three of the four hydraulic systems as well as the flight controls. The explosion ripped a large hole near the rear of the aircraft. The pilot diverted the plane and headed back to Tan Son Nhut AB, but the C-5 couldn't make it. The pilot made an emergency landing in a rice paddy, within two miles of the base, shearing off the cargo compartment of the aircraft. Many of the orphans were still asleep when the aircraft hit the ground, bounced up, and began to break apart as it hit again and slid to a stop. The entire cargo bay of the aircraft sheared off as the plane tore across the field. Of the 140 passengers below only six survived. Eleven out of the 29 crewmembers lost their lives. The nurses and technicians aboard did their best to save as many children as they could. Thanks to the aircrew's flying skills, however, 176 of the 314 people on board survived, including 150 orphans.

The wings may have separated here, but that was a consequence of the emergency landing in the rice paddy, and not the initiator of the accident itself.
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ThePRGuy
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:05 am

That is seriously scary
God knows what was going through the minds of the pilots in their final seconds.
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CruzinAltitude
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting N867BX (Reply 10):
The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.



Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 11):
In the end the cause of the crash was inadequate terrain separation.

Both of you are going to hell! On a side note, since you made me laugh out loud, I'll meet you there!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Early C-130 had a big problem with cracking wing spars.

It also led to a discovery that all C-130A/B/E and early H, and H-2 aircraft would be susceptible to to a centrewing box failure. The USAF doesn't have any A or B models anymore, but still has a sizable number of C-130E/H models in the inventory, and many were discovered with extensive corrosion and cracks in the centre wingbox and faulty wingspars
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richm
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:25 am

The last few seconds must have been awful for the crew as they learn their fate.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting RichM (Reply 16):
The last few seconds must have been awful for the crew as they learn their fate.

Crews will fly the plane right down to the ground. My guess is they were trying to right it and level out even though it would ahve done no good.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting RichM (Reply 16):
The last few seconds must have been awful for the crew as they learn their fate.

Perhaps, but looking at the time counter on the video, it looks like the wings folded up at 00:04 and impact was about 00:10.

Between still trying to control it as EAAUADL mentions and their proximity to the ground at the time of the failure, I'd guess that the 6 seconds was over before they knew it... Hope so, anyways...
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
The Martin 202 had the same problem

Martin suffered metal fatigue due to poorly designed wing attachment just outboard the engines. Poor metallurgy choices.

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
similar problems with wings

Propeller auto-procession (due to some structural weakness such as a hard landing or damage to struts inside engine/ reduction gear) combined with Harmonic Coupling with the wing itself which led to catastrophic flutter transmitted to a wing (or both!) wings.

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
crash of a C-5A Galaxy during the Vietnam War

As previously described by "OPNLguy", the aircraft lost the rear cargo ramp whilst under pressure and catastrophic damage to hydraulic system and flight controls occurred.
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cusaeng
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting N867BX (Reply 10):
Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

Pilot error.

The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.

Thats just not funny !
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hawker
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:06 am

Getting off the point a bit, but there was a recent Galaxy crash where the plane belly landed due to engine failure and both the nose and tail broke off.

This suggests to me that double decker fuselages are somewhat fragile, but this is a high wing design.

So with the 380 being a low wing design would it be about the same crashworthy as a 777 etc?
 
greasespot
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:17 am

The C-130 and civil model L-382 (they are different)have an ultimate life of the wings....I believe that the wings have to be thrown away at 35,000 hours if they are Type 1 and 2 wings. If they are type 3 wings their ultimate life shoots up to 75000 hours.( i am going by memory as it has been a while since i had anything to do in QA with the Herc.)

There are a lot of inspections on wingbox.....

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usair320
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting N867BX (Reply 10):
Pilot error.

The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.

Errr buddie. Planes are uncontrollable without there wings.  laughing  no offence intended here just thought i'de point it out to you.
 
dazeflight
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RE: Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 23):
Errr buddie. Planes are uncontrollable without there wings. laughing no offence intended here just thought i'de point it out to you.

get some new sarcasm detectors.