EMA747
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Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:17 am

Hi.
I am just wondering what operators use heavies on short haul routes in Europe. Don't KLM use an A330 on their LHR-AMS route sometimes? Also don't SQ use a 744 on MAN-ZRH or something like that?
Does anybody know of any other similar operations? I would like to try flying a few if I can. Would really like to fly a 777 again but can't think of any short haul routes using them in Europe.

Andy S
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rwsea
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:28 am

In 2004, I flew LHR-PRG on a BA 763. Not sure if they're still using them on that route though.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:36 am

Check the LH schedules, they frequently use their A300s on routes from FRA to London and Athens, and on domestic legs within Germany. BA uses 763s on some high demand European routes but the number of 763 flights has been reduced as BA has converted some of their Europe configured 763s to longhaul standard for longer range flights. Olympic sends its A340s to London and sometimes Paris, I am not sure if their schedule shows which flights are operated with the A340. Another idea is to check schedules from LHR.....Iberia has used A340s on the LHR-MAD route during certain periods and its not unusual to see a TAP assign a widebody to the LHR-LIS route.

Aside from BA and LH, and a tag-on flight from an Asian airline, you will have to do some research to find ""heavies"" on the short European segments....also note that schedules change frequently and the widebody may only be assigned to a specific route for a few days or weeks to acommodate increased demand.

Even on the KL flight between LHR and AMS....there are frequently equipment swaps, although one widebody is generally sent from AMS to LHR every day (to move cargo), it may not be the flight originally scheduled and it many not be the airplane that you expected.
 
andaman
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:11 pm

Finnair flies MD-11 to the ski resorts in Finnish Lapland occasionally in winter.


MD-11 in Kittila (KTT) in Finnish Lapland, flying time 1h 25min:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Juha Portti


[Edited 2006-08-21 05:17:14]
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monkeyboi
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:40 pm

BA regularly uses its 767-300's on intra-european routes.

LH with their A300.

KL with their 330/763.

OA with their A300/A340.

TK with their 330.

CY with their 330.
 
ba757gla
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:16 pm

BA uses the 763 to ATH ,NCE and maybe ARN. What about Varig CDG-CPH/AMS?
 
OHLHD
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:24 pm

MAN-LHR on day 4 on a RB 747SP!
 
DernierVirage
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:29 pm

Depending on the time of year etc., some AF (scheduled) flights from Paris to Ajaccio are with the 747.
 
MRURUN
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:34 pm

Dub-snn on EI A330.
Along with others mentioned above.

CPH-Greenland with Greenlandflug.

Ethiopian LON-FCO (I think it may be LHR)

D3 (Daalo airlines) LGW-CDG (-JIB)
 
c172onfloats
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:34 pm

LH uses sometimes their A346 from FRA to MUC or MUC to FRA!
 
ba757gla
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:46 pm

747 sp LHR -MAN didnt know that does that still operate?
 
psimpson
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:27 pm

Aer Lingus A330-300s twice weekly to Nice.
 
EIDW
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:37 pm

EI use the 330 to Malaga as well, flew on one yesterday!

EIDW.
 
emrecan
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:54 pm

TK flies from IST to LHR,AMS,Dusseldorf and some other German cities by 343s and 330s sometimes.
 
cornish
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:08 pm

Although its not regualr, the recent problems at LHR saw some interesting European operations, thanks to the emergency measures of flight cutting. As I arrived into T2 on monday last week, there was a CSA A310 sitting at the next stand. Can't recall seeing that at LHR before.

As mentioned above LH, schedule an A300 for at least two of their services to FRA a day, including the mid-afternoon flight.
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MH017
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:15 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Even on the KL flight between LHR and AMS....there are frequently equipment swaps, although one widebody is generally sent from AMS to LHR every day (to move cargo), it may not be the flight originally scheduled and it many not be the airplane that you expected

Dutchjet is right, however, the planned KLM widebody flights for LHR are like below (all in UTC):

FLT NO: KL1007 D/S: W06
NR PERIOD FREQ A/C D TECHN CONFIG/PP FIRST FLT NEXT FLT
01 29OCT06 18FEB07 3 7 763 C 30C 190M 4 KL1008
02 30OCT06 24MAR07 12 456 332 A 30C 221M 6 KL1008
03 21FEB07 21MAR07 3 7 332 A 30C 221M 6 KL1008

meaning: daily 332 on KL1007/KL1008 as from 21feb07  Smile
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JGPH1A
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 5):
BA uses the 763 to ATH ,NCE and maybe ARN.

This summer BA are only operating 757, 320 and 319 to NCE. Normally we get 763's as well. Maybe this year it was only for Cannes Film Festival and the GP.
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MRURUN
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:36 pm

What do SU and UN use from SVO/LED?
 
Robbie86
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 5):
BA uses the 763 to ATH ,NCE and maybe ARN

I think BA flies 737 to ARN
 
sk945
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 18):

No, BA flies A319, A320, B757 and B763 to ARN on regular basis.
One daily visit of the B763.
 
Robbie86
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 18):
I think BA flies 737 to ARN

Sorry was wrong :P BA operates one 767 to ARN the rest is A319
 
MH017
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:55 pm

BA936/BA937 LHR-DUS-LHR is regularly a 767-300 (if not 757) ...

(I used to fly the VC10 once in the late 70's: good old memories !!!)
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planesarecool
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 pm

Some charter operators use heavies on short haul:


LTU: A330-300
Condor: B767-300
Mytravel AS: A330-300
Martinair: MD-11, B767-300
Thomsonfly: B767-200/300
Corsair: B747-300, A330-200
Transaero: B767-200/300, B747-200
Pulkovo: IL-86
Aeroflot: IL-86, IL-96
Excel Airways: B767-200/300, B747-300
Monarch: A300-600, B767-300
Onur Air: A300
Fly Air: A300
Siberia Airlines: A310, IL-86
Atlant-Soyuz Airways: IL-86
Hapagfly: A310


To name a few..
 
runway23
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
This summer BA are only operating 757, 320 and 319 to NCE. Normally we get 763's as well. Maybe this year it was only for Cannes Film Festival and the GP.

I've seen 767s in NCE quite often this year, albeit not as often as previously.

Quoting MH017 (Reply 15):
Dutchjet is right, however, the planned KLM widebody flights for LHR are like below (all in UTC):

Add to that frequent equipment changes to 777/M11/744s. The latest was yesterday when KL 1009/1010 was operated by a 777.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 10):
747 sp LHR -MAN didnt know that does that still operate?

From the Amadeus:

1 BA1385 6 MAN 3 LHR 1 0725 0835 0 19AUG06 02SEP06 757 1:10
2BA:QF3534 2 MAN 3 LHR 1 0725 0835 0 08AUG06 26SEP06 320 1:10
3BA:QF3534 X26 MAN 3 LHR 1 0725 0835 0 04AUG06 29SEP06 319 1:10

4 RB 413 4 MAN 2 LHR 2 0820 0905 0 03AUG06 26OCT06 747 0:45
 
c172onfloats
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:58 pm

and here is one more:
Lan Chile from Madrid to Frankfurt and return on the 343!
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:29 am

Iberia uses 340 equipment from Madrid to Tenerife North, Las Palmas and Barcelona and sometimes to LHR.
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dutchjet
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 26):
Iberia uses 340 equipment from Madrid to Tenerife North, Las Palmas and Barcelona and sometimes to LHR.

Good catch regarding the routes to the Canaries.....depending on the season, IB throwns serious capacity on the MAD-Gran Canaria and MAD-Tenerife route, over the years everything from A343s to A346s (and in the past 747s) have shown up on this route. I have flown on an IB A343 from MAD to GCN and forgot to mention it.
 
ncelhr
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:01 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 23):
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
This summer BA are only operating 757, 320 and 319 to NCE. Normally we get 763's as well. Maybe this year it was only for Cannes Film Festival and the GP.

I've seen 767s in NCE quite often this year, albeit not as often as previously.

They are being used only on particularly busy days. The bulk of BA's offer in NCE is 757s this summer due to increase in frequency. Needless to say, they are also packed like sardine tins.
 
wolsingerjet
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:13 pm

Sure remember the Air inter A330-300 flying within france at one point...
Guess what???I dont like you either...
 
EI321
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:19 pm

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 8):
Dub-snn on EI A330.
Along with others mentioned above.



Quoting EIDW (Reply 12):
EI use the 330 to Malaga as well, flew on one yesterday!

EIDW.

And Dublin to Nice!
 
manni
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:30 pm

uote=EMA747,reply=0]Would really like to fly a 777 again but can't think of any short haul routes using them in Europe.
[/quote]

Apparently Austrian is using the 777 between Vienna and Ukraine. The aircraft is scheduled on the route for training purpose, so I read on one of the topics posted on here.

If you're just after flying on a 777 and have more than a few hours spare, get yourself a cheap ticket on BA from LHR to JFK, discounted tickets to the east coast US are often marginally more expensive (if not cheaper) than on certain European routes.

Other short widebody trips can be done to CAI (MS, BA, LH), TLV (BA 772, LH, LX, LY), BEY (AF 773), Casablanca (RAM) etc. from various European airports
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EI321
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting EMA747 (Thread starter):
Would really like to fly a 777 again but can't think of any short haul routes using them in Europe.

The 777 is ineffecient on short routes.
 
HUYguy
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:50 pm

When BMI's service to Moscow starts, will it be on an A330/767 or a narrow-body? That'll count if its on a widebody.
 
EI321
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting HUYguy (Reply 33):
When BMI's service to Moscow starts

when is it starting?
 
HAWAIIAN932
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:58 pm

Many years ago, I flew CPH/LHR on BA L-1011. Also TWA L-1011 from AMS/TXL and JL 747 LHR/CDG. AF 744 and A-300 LHR/CDG/LHR was a nice surprise too.
 
Knightsofmalta
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:15 am

I flew Air Namibia from FRA to LHR. Don't know if that flights still exists though. I think Yemenia fly FRA-FCO. And PIA fly OSL-CPH which can be anything from an A. 310 to a B. 747, depending on which type they manage to find any sober flight crews for...
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Sk945 (Reply 19):
One daily visit of the B763.

ARN operation of B763 probably finishing in Nov.
 
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TK787
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Monkeyboi (Reply 4):
TK with their 330

TK also uses 343 and 313 to some destinations daily.
Maybe up to a dozen flights a day total with these 3 types.
 
BAW076
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:17 am

Royal Jordanian regularly use the A340-200 on the AMM-LHR-AMM route.
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runway23
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting HUYguy (Reply 33):
When BMI's service to Moscow starts, will it be on an A330/767 or a narrow-body? That'll count if its on a widebody.

A320 reconfigured specially for Moscow. Seats in Business class and arrangement will resemble what flies around in North America.
 
ba757gla
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:34 pm

I have seen a 767 opereating LHR-EDI but that was festival time last year. i think oas ATH-LHR is the best but i can never find cheap tickets for it though!
 
jamesjoyce
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting EMA747 (Thread starter):
I am just wondering what operators use heavies on short haul routes in Europe

Saw a Royal Air Maroc 747-400 yesterday in Brussels taking-off for Morocco. That's not short-haul, but it isn't long-haul either at roughly 3 hours worth of airtime.
 
flyboy_se
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:56 pm

Air France operate 777 on saturdays and sundays as AF508 CDG-CAI.
I dont know if u would consider this flight a short hauls one since its 4h30minutes.

BA opertaes its flight BA780 LHR-ARN and BA779 ARN-LHR with a 767 on the weekdays.that flight is some 2h30m.

You can occasionaly get a Lufthansa A300 during the weekdays too on the FRA-ARN-FRA and FRA-CPH-FRA routes
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airbuseric
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:59 pm

Currently B8 (Eritrean Airlines) is operating a L1011 (OD-MIR) on their AMS-MXP (-ASM) flights. I don't know if it's possible to get a ticket on AMS-MXP though! Later this year they go back to a 763.

In the past JL used to fly 742/743 AMS-MAD-AMS at daytime.
Also RG used their M11 CDG-AMS-CDG lately, but they ceased operations.
AT is a regular operator of 744 on CMN-AMS routes.
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JJJ
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:59 pm

LAN Chile sells seats on his MAD-FRA leg using A340 equipment.

Also, as mentioned IB also uses the A340 in high capacity domestic routes as well as in some euro routes (FRA, MUC) in cargo peak times.
 
mhodgson
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:01 pm

BA also operate the 763 to FRA.

XLA operate the 763 LGW-MAN(-BGI), though the domestic sector cannot be booked.
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MH017
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 44):
I don't know if it's possible to get a ticket on AMS-MXP though! Later this year they go back to a 763.

Eric,

AMS-MXP no traffic rights...
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gkirk
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:15 pm

You're all forgetting the routes operated by 752 and 753s, which could be classified as "heavy"  stirthepot 
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ReverseThrust
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RE: Short Haul Routes With Heavies In Europe

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:29 pm

KLM have recently flown a few 777's from AMS-LHR on afternoon rotations.

BA often flew their 767's to Munich too having travelled on quite a few flights with them.

I also flew VARIG's MD-11 from LHR-CPH back in May.
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