nitrohelper
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Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:55 am

This is an update request for the " when will NWA DC-9s be ? ,etc. etc."
Since the price of Oil has been steady around $70/barrel, will the DC-9 parking be completed before 2012 (as the late date) vs. 2010 (early finish). whiteflag 
Anybody know how many DC-9s will be flying for NWA in 2007 ?
Could a third world airline keep some of the -9s flying for years in the future? airplane 

Oh yes ; "What will Northwest replace the DC-9 with "  scratchchin   wink 
 
Jano
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting Nitrohelper (Thread starter):
Anybody know how many DC-9s will be flying for NWA in 2007 ?

They have 103 of them now. They seem to be parking them at a rate of about 30 per year in last 2 years. So I expect at the end of 2007 we would see at least 70 of them still in service.
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falstaff
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:07 am

From what I have read around here on other threads is that cost of fuel is not the only factor. Just because they are expensive to fuel, they have lower costs elsewhere. They are paid for, which can offset the cost of fuel. I would think that since technicians have been working on them so long they really know the plane backward and forward. That can reduce costs too. SWA only having 737s is example of that. Training a staff to work on a new fleet on anything is very expensive. That is true from ships to garbage trucks and everything in between.
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LTU932
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:27 am

Given the current situation at NW, we should be cautions. NW might not be around next year if their labour disputes continue as they are, so the fate of the NW DC-9s might be even more uncertain than before.
 
N231YE
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:02 am

As I said in the last thread, from what I have heard from Northwest Executives, NWA is planning to keep the DC-9 fleet for another 30 years. According to an executive, the DC-9 is cheap to operate and maintain. I thought he was crazy at first, but then he mentioned that NW was upgrading the interiors of their DC-9's.
 
MSPCRJ200
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:27 am

I heard that NWA is planning to replace some of the aircraft with EMB-190s. Can anyone confirm? Whatever happens, from a passenger perspective I can't see how they will convince anyone in a few years to board one of those rustbuckets. Do any other non-3rd world airlines actually operate 9's anymore?
 
nwafflyer
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:36 am

I'd love to have the dc-9's around for another 10 or so years - I do love those planes, they're built like tanks, I don't care how rough the flight gets, I'm never nervous in a dc-9 at all, I love the take off's and the climb outs - from DTW to FNT, there's sometimes a huge turn, major banking - when they take off to the south.

On longer flights, they're a comfortable smooth plane when cruising, sure there are a few worn and tattered spots (look at the ceiling over the first class bathroom), but they're great planes, and I hope to fly them for years
 
Cadet57
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 4):
NWA is planning to keep the DC-9 fleet for another 30 years.

Yea ok. So then the airframes will have close to 60 years on them. suuuuure  sarcastic 
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nwafflyer
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:40 am

How many years are on the dc-8's, the dc'3's and the dc 4's that are still flying?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting MSPCRJ200 (Reply 5):
Do any other non-3rd world airlines actually operate 9's anymore?

DHL does, through ABX Air.  Wink
 
1011
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:29 pm

I don't know if they should even get rid of the 9. They just parked some piece of junk 320s because they reached their service life at I think 15 or 16yrs. Some of the 9s are 40 yrs old and paid for. Go figure.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting 1011 (Reply 10):
Some of the 9s are 40 yrs old and paid for. Go figure.

Not quite. Our oldest DC9 was built in 1968, and there's only one of those. The rest were built in the early 1970's.

Quoting Nitrohelper (Thread starter):
Anybody know how many DC-9s will be flying for NWA in 2007 ?

There hasn't been any plans yet to accelerate the DC9 retirement as of yet. We're retiring the high cycle 9's that are up for depot-level rework. There are four scheduled to be retired between now and the end of the year. And I believe we've retired 6 including the 2 written off earlier this year. A far cry from the 194 DC9's we had when I joined NWA.
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Lucky42
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 2):
I would think that since technicians have been working on them so long they really know the plane backward and forward. Th

That USED to be the case falstaff but not anymore. Most of all nw work is outsourced and the only "experienced" DC-9 guys are some of the original nw guys who crossed the picket line.
 
CV990
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:19 am

Hi!

Just to say that on the 7th. July 2006 when I was ready to leave EWR I saw N8932E, a NW DC-9-30 in a quite sharp look....well at least it look MUCH BETTER than the USAir 737-300's that I saw at EWR.....they sucked when you looked to their new livery, faded dark blue ( or whatever color is that one !!! )
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting 1011 (Reply 10):
They just parked some piece of junk 320s because they reached their service life at I think 15 or 16yrs.

Pure nonsense. Check the archive or some other aviation sources and get some facts straight before posting.  Yeah sure


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tjwgrr
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 4):
As I said in the last thread, from what I have heard from Northwest Executives, NWA is planning to keep the DC-9 fleet for another 30 years....

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richierich
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Jano (Reply 1):
They have 103 of them now. They seem to be parking them at a rate of about 30 per year in last 2 years. So I expect at the end of 2007 we would see at least 70 of them still in service.

Assuming NW has a future, I'd expect to see all of the DC-9s gone by 2010. If they truly are disposing of them at the rate Jano says, it could be sooner. No airline would want to have only 40 of one type of aircraft, at least one that requires such a lot of maintenance and expensive expertise. And yes, as fuel becomes more and more expensive, the old gas hogs do become somewhat of a liability, no matter if they are "paid for" or not.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 4):
As I said in the last thread, from what I have heard from Northwest Executives, NWA is planning to keep the DC-9 fleet for another 30 years. According to an executive, the DC-9 is cheap to operate and maintain. I thought he was crazy at first, but then he mentioned that NW was upgrading the interiors of their DC-9's

Please tell me you are joking. If not, I suggest putting away the dope and hitting a back-to-school sale.
3 years more = a distinct possibility. 30 years = dreaming.

Quoting MSPCRJ200 (Reply 5):
I heard that NWA is planning to replace some of the aircraft with EMB-190s.

These would be the logical replacement type and I think would fit NW very well. However, there is that little issue of money and financing - could be a problem.

Whatever happens, the DC-9s have had a nice run at NW haven't they? I still find it amazing that some examples are still performing yeoman-like day-to-day duties and are nearing their 40th birthdays!

While I believe the E190 is a good plane (as is the A319/20 series), I don't think it is reasonable to expect a 39-year life out of these babies!
None shall pass!!!!
 
1011
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 14):
Pure nonsense. Check the archive or some other aviation sources and get some facts straight before posting

Can anybody who works for NW verfiy if you guys retired any 320s yet. I thought you retired two or three. Around ship # 304, 305, or 306. I read a article on another publication that NW did retire some 320s because they reached service life.

If it is true did a DC-9 pick up the ferry pilots? NW mechanics used to tell me that when the 320s reached retirement they will pick them up in the desert on the DC-9. Kinda funny.
 
Jano
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting 1011 (Reply 17):
Can anybody who works for NW verfiy if you guys retired any 320s yet. I thought you retired two or three. Around ship # 304, 305, or 306. I read a article on another publication that NW did retire some 320s because they reached service life.

Here we go.... 4 Northwest A320s Being Scrapped At Greenwood, MS! (by IslandHopperCO Jul 24 2006 in Civil Aviation)
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 8):
How many years are on the dc-8's, the dc'3's and the dc 4's that are still flying

Well yeah, but the 3's and 4's are not pressurized and thus do not suffer the stresses of (pressurized) cycling.

The heavier structure of the Douglas jets sure have made them longtime survivors though. NW has certainly proven that!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
N231YE
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Richierich (Reply 16):
Please tell me you are joking. If not, I suggest putting away the dope and hitting a back-to-school sale.
3 years more = a distinct possibility. 30 years = dreaming.



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
Yea ok. So then the airframes will have close to 60 years on them. suuuuure

What part of a NW executive telling me this don't you understand?

-------THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS----------GET THE MESSAGE STRAIT

I don't remember his first name, but his last is Phelka...
 
burnsie28
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:20 pm

Well they just recently as close as a month ago pulled atleast 2 DC-9's back out of the Desert.
 
BH
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:55 pm

I would have to agree with "Falstaff", fuel price alone would not be the only determining factor.Since they are owned the cost are a lot lower in the block hours that factor in vs say the A-320.I am sure they have a plan to replace them eventually but why mess with a good thing.You keep throwing them on DET/MSP to BWI/IAD/etc all day and they make money for you.(i guess they do i can only assume like everyone else).

I flew on the DC-9 quite a bit this year and i must say they are in pretty nice shape.Them things just keep plugging away!
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richierich
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 20):
What part of a NW executive telling me this don't you understand?

-------THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS----------GET THE MESSAGE STRAIT

I don't remember his first name, but his last is Phelka...

I don't understand how you actually believe they'll be flying another 30 years! Give me a break. (BTW, the word is "STRAIGHT", not "STRAIT" as in George.)

There are differences between "tongue-in-cheek" references and actual statements. I'm pretty sure this "executive" was either kidding and you took it out of context, or he has absolutely no idea what is going on. Don't believe everything you hear.
None shall pass!!!!
 
N231YE
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 23):

He said it very seriously, and even I admit I thought he was crazy. But then he reminded me how is NW spending the money to upgrade the interiors. It is possible that NW will retire their oldest DC-9's and keep the younger ones on for 30 years, but even that is excessive...
 
nitrohelper
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:44 am

If they lose about 30 a year, I guess then about three more years and we have our nwa answer? How much to buy one, not stripped.
Will they get cut up after 2010, or will 50 or so, still be flying somewhere? 30 years ? ?

What will replace the DC-9s at nwa ,and any idea how many ? (100 maybe)


How many are getting new insides since 2005?

Quoting N231YE (Reply 24):
spending the money to upgrade the interiors.
 
N231YE
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 25):
How many are getting new insides since 2005?

Mr. Phelka told me this in 2002, maybe 2003, so it was a few years ago. I do not know if the upgrading is complete, or the number of DC-9 that have been upgraded.
 
Jano
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 26):
Mr. Phelka told me this in 2002, maybe 2003, so it was a few years ago. I do not know if the upgrading is complete, or the number of DC-9 that have been upgraded.

I believe the DC9 upgrades to B717 style interiors were being done around 2001 and/or 2002.

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 25):
If they lose about 30 a year, I guess then about three more years and we have our nwa answer?

The fact that they have been parking DC9s at rate of about 30/year in last 2 years does not mean that they will continue doing so in 2007 and beyond.

They do not have an equivalant jet yet and not even made a decision about purchase of an equivalent jet. We only know that both Embraer and Bombardier paid a visit to MSP and building A.
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ordryan28
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 4):
As I said in the last thread, from what I have heard from Northwest Executives, NWA is planning to keep the DC-9 fleet for another 30 years

I highly, highly doubt 30 years. that's a very, very long time. I would be surprised to see anymore than 7 or 8 years, and that's pushing it. but who knows, didnt they re-engine all of them? and if they replace the interior I'm sure they would be nice.

-Ryan

[Edited 2006-08-23 05:19:20]
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
richierich
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 24):
He said it very seriously, and even I admit I thought he was crazy. But then he reminded me how is NW spending the money to upgrade the interiors.

Renovating the interior is not a big deal. Maybe that would have given NW another 5 years out of some of the beasts (hey, can't have customers thinking its a 30 year old plane, can they?)

One of my friends recently flew on a NW DC-9, and a quick search of the reg number shows it was older than he is (and he is >30!). The interior was in good shape, not sure if it was recently upgraded, and he claims you wouldn't have known it was so old except for the clockwork cockpit and some minor trim around the doors, galley, etc.

None of that matters though. 30+ years is old for an airframe. To suggest the airline will have the DC-9s around for another 30 years is a joke - hopefully nobody believes that. Even if they get rid of their oldest DC-9s, in 30 years the fleet would still be over the big 5-0. These planes will have been long recycled by that time.
None shall pass!!!!
 
jwenting
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:01 am

A320s bring a lot more money when sold on the open market than do DC-9s.
They're also more expensive for NWA because of the interest payments on them and the training of maintenance staff.

So if they're in trouble (which the unions have finally succeeded in putting them into) it makes more sense to sell the Airbusses and keep the fully paid for DC-9s, which probably make more money per seat-mile than the Airbusses will for another decade.
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bmacleod
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:06 am

If NWA is able to overcome its labour situation, yes they should park their DC-9s and switch to ERJs or CRJs as fuels prices are not going down at least well into the next year and the DC-9s being an older aircraft, use lots of fuel....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
richierich
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 30):
So if they're in trouble (which the unions have finally succeeded in putting them into) it makes more sense to sell the Airbusses and keep the fully paid for DC-9s, which probably make more money per seat-mile than the Airbusses will for another decade.

I wouldn't want to work for an airline that has its long-term future hinging on a fleet of 30 year old gas guzzlers! I get the payments and interest thing, but are you implying they spend more on maintenance on the DC9s than their Airbus fleet (on a per-plane basis?) I would think not.

Let me be frank for a second (frankiefrank?): I like the DC-9s and they are still performing workmanlike service for Northwest. However, their end dates are rapidly approaching, and sprucing up the interior is only a temporary cosmetic fix that buys a few extra years. To imply that the airline will be looking at another 30 years from these machines is ludicrous.
None shall pass!!!!
 
richierich
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 31):
If NWA is able to overcome its labour situation, yes they should park their DC-9s and switch to ERJs or CRJs as fuels prices are not going down at least well into the next year and the DC-9s being an older aircraft, use lots of fuel....

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like NW is going to be in a situation to afford new E170/90s anytime soon. To me, they would be the ideal replacement for the DC9s - good economics and very comfortable. If that can't happen, then I agree that they are going to have to fill in the gap with RJs and Airbuses, depending on the markets. Some markets will have to be trimmed or eliminated, but that is going on all over the country.

If NW is still flying DC9s come 2010, I'd be surprised. It's possible, but I think they'll be gone before that.
None shall pass!!!!
 
jwenting
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 32):
, but are you implying they spend more on maintenance on the DC9s than their Airbus fleet (on a per-plane basis?)

no, I'm implying that the Airbusses may well be more expensive overall to run than are the DC-9s (per airframe), not that any single factor is more expensive on its own.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 32):
To imply that the airline will be looking at another 30 years from these machines is ludicrous.

not so. They could well do just that if properly taken care of. Unlikely to happen, but not impossible.
If you check the USAF B-52 fleet which is driven extreley hard, those are scheduled to be around for another 40 years and mostly entered service before those DC-9s did.
DC-3s are still flying in regular service in several places, built 60+ years ago.

Never say never. Back then they didn't design things with planned failure dates a few days after the warranty ends like they do now.
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N231YE
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 34):
Never say never. Back then they didn't design things with planned failure dates a few days after the warranty ends like they do now.

NICE...someone else noticed this phenomena too. In a museum of a house that is near me, they still run 85-year old light bulbs. And the museum is open all day, everyday (except holidays). A light bulb today running these same standards? You're lucky if you get 6 months out of it.
 
socal
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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:39 am

Northwest needs to keep its 9 fleet, it would be a shame to just get rid of them. Besides, these 9's are great employees, they get the job done.


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RE: Are NWA DC-9s Scrap After 2007?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:44 am

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