rootsair
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Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:55 pm

Whilst reading the history of Ryanair I found out and was extremely surprised that once in their lifetime they had Business class and a Frequent flyer program !
Now that's a very big surprise when one knows what the airline does to cut expenses.

Check under 1989
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php


Interesting history !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
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Vasu
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:05 pm

Blimey! How times have changed...

That was an interesting read... I really never thought that Ryanair was such a small airline not so long ago...!
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:05 am

yup, those ATR's were fun trips. Indeed I remember flying the 1-11's when they were in romanian style...train style. You had a few rows of seats facing each other!!! Indeed, prior to, or just at the beginning of their current incarnation, they had an A320 all painted up in their then colours.

Their FR travel scheme was much more generous than EI's, too!!! If only they'd stuck with it.
 
pilot21
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 2):
yup, those ATR's were fun trips. Indeed I remember flying the 1-11's when they were in romanian style...train style. You had a few rows of seats facing each other!!! Indeed, prior to, or just at the beginning of their current incarnation, they had an A320 all painted up in their then colours.

Their FR travel scheme was much more generous than EI's, too!!! If only they'd stuck with it.

If they'd stuck to it, they wouldn't be here today. The airline was run by guy called Eugene O'Neill (if I remember right) and he had plans to challenge EI and BA, but on their own terms, (i.e. with Business class, FFP etc) and they even ordered A320's. However with the losses they incurred, the airline was in serious trouble, so the Ryan family put some more money in, fired Eugene and Tony Ryan asked an accountant who had done some work for him to head up the new airline.

Enter Michael O'Leary who scrapped the A320 order, cut back on the routes, and in one of the best moves ever, moved the airline's Ldn base from Luton to Stansted just as Stansted had opened it's new terminal. After that, MOL has never looked back.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 3):

Hmm, I dont know, a very personable airline has turned into the behemoth that we know and loath. Yes, it was not financially successful in the first years, but remind me again how many years it took for the Squire Group to be successful or indeed VS? Perhaps if theyd stuck with the gradual growth, we could have had a valid response to EI that may have prodded changes much earlier to that carrier (a la BA) instead of post 9/11 changes that finally, eventually did emerge. But, we'll never know.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 4):
a very personable airline has turned into the behemoth that we know and loath.

Again, the figures tell a completely different story.

Sadly, FR is, at least in the UK and Ireland, very often misperceived - but the facts tell the truth.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
iRISH251
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 2):
they had an A320 all painted up in their then colours

No, this was an Airbus demonstrator in Airbus house colours. Ryanair titles and an aircraft name ("The City of Dublin") were added for demonstration to the company in March 1988. Picture here:

http://www.irishairpics.com/database/photo/1003447/
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:06 am

 razz  BUT WE'll NEVER KNOW.


Just in case you miss the point.

Old FR was never given a chance. They could be even richer now and not all smokes and mirrors with bulk purchase/sale/leaseback etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

As for figures, I would love to see the numbers of REPEAT CUSTOMERS from FR, you wouldnt have those would you?
Whats going to happen when the EU stops expanding? How are the Morrocco routes doing?
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
As for figures, I would love to see the numbers of REPEAT CUSTOMERS from FR, you wouldnt have those would you?

Of course. 83.17% of FR's customers have flown them before.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
Whats going to happen when the EU stops expanding?

Ask any aviation analyst and they'll agree that there is terrific potential in Europe because European integration has only just begun. There are countless countries which will adopt the open skies policy (e.g. Serbia on 1st January 2007), particularly Turkey (pop. over 72m) and Romania (over 20m). Moreover, Germany, for example, is relatively unserved - and it has Europe's largest population (over 80m) and its largest market potential (over 120m).

There are very exciting times ahead.

All of this confirms why FR is expected to carry at least 100m by 2012 and, by 2014, have at least 413 738s.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
How are the Morrocco routes doing?

With a one-way all-in fare of £15.09 from LTN to FEZ, I imagine very well. Indeed, FR has said it'll carry about 1m customers to and from Morocco and will have about 20 routes to/from there.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:28 am

IMAGINING a route is doing very well, doesnt suffice I'm afraid.

As I have asked in the other thread dealing with FR, where does this 83% figure come from, who conducted the survey, what was the survey pool, when was it carried out?

Germany is in the EU and has been for many years, so why havnt FR got a larger hold of the market? What happens IF turkey doesnt join? Or,at best it ends there for a generation or so? What is FR going to do then? Aviation analysts may say expansion of Europe may have just begun, however, European Academics and Euro-Crats have their doubts. Indeed the European Neighbourhood Policy, off the back of which many of these open skies deals were formulated, has had its funding gradually, and quietly, reduced. (The ENP provided little tidbits such as openskies to tempt 'potential members' and/or 'neighbours' into opening their markets to the EU.)
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
As I have asked in the other thread dealing with FR, where does this 83% figure come from, who conducted the survey, what was the survey pool, when was it carried out?

See the other thread.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
Germany is in the EU and has been for many years, so why havnt FR got a larger hold of the market?

Because it has been doing other things. HOWEVER, it is still the market leader - with over 6% - on Germany-intra-Europe LCC flights. AB is second and U2 is third.

FR is expected to have up to 6 more bases in Germany.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
What is FR going to do then?

As I said, there is terrific potential left in Europe. Doubt all you want, but it's true.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
IMAGINING a route is doing very well, doesnt suffice I'm afraid.

Well I never. You imply it's not doing well, so YOU prove evidence to that end.

[Edited 2006-08-22 20:38:04]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
Sadly, FR is, at least in the UK and Ireland, very often misperceived - but the facts tell the truth.

What do you expect? People cheering for cutting any kind of amenity?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 11):
What do you expect? People cheering for cutting any kind of amenity?

Yep. Because through FR's cost-cutting, it delivers precisely what its customers most want and value: the lowest fares (and the best punctuality). It is just misperceived in the UK and Ireland. However, that is changing. And, essentially, the figures prove the truth about customer experiences.

After 13 hours at my desk, I'm off home. Goodnight.  Smile
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
Yep. Because through FR's cost-cutting, it delivers precisely what its customers most want and value: the lowest fares (and the best punctuality). It is just misperceived in the UK and Ireland. However, that is changing. And, essentially, the figures prove the truth about customer experiences.

It probably delivers to a number of customers what they want - but not to everybody. And those who expect more than a flying bus tour at the lowest possible service level will never accept their offering.

And "best punctuality" is relative. If some airstrips cannot be served because of foggy weather and flights have to be cancelled I'd rather prefer a delay of some minutes when flying from a primary airport. Also, if anything goes wrong (no matter who or what is responsible) I prefer to have a carrier which cares about its customers.

And all the talk about "the cheapest fares" is ridiculous - as soon as FR gains a monopoly in a market expect the "cheapest fares" to disappear before the day ends.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:19 am

Shame he's gone, some of his statements are misleading. For one, there is not mention of the 83% figure as he outlines above in the Davy reports that I have just read through on the FR website.

I post this as a link since this is the most relevant of the Davy documents.

Pearson, if you could provide a link to your statement of 83%, then I would be most grateful.

Lastly, Pearson, I simply asked a question

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
How are the Morrocco routes doing?

and DID NOT imply. You have asserted otherwise and I await proof if possible.

I do hope you answer these Pearson.
 
vv701
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 3):
Enter Michael O'Leary who scrapped the A320 order, cut back on the routes, and in one of the best moves ever, moved the airline's Ldn base from Luton to Stansted just as Stansted had opened it's new terminal.

Having built the new STN terminal BAA planned to use the congestion at LHR to fill it. It tried to limit growth at LHR and also tried to prevent airlines not already operating there from starting services to LHR effectively forcing new traffic into STN and LGW. This plan met with severe opposition particularly from American airlines. So, on the day that the new STN terminal opened, BAA announced a change of policy that was to turn STN and its new terminal into a white elephant.

The Managing Director at BAA Stansted Ltd was Terry Morgan. He had to announce that fifteen or more airlines that had signed up to use STN had changed their minds and were going to use LHR instead. Tony Ryan, the founder of Ryanair, and Michael O'Leary saw an opportunity. MOL outlined his ambitious growth plans to Morgan and negotiated a huge discount in STN charges. So Ryanair moved its London hub from LTN to STN.

Ryanair still has a deal giving it a discount at STN related to the volume of traffic it generates. The Morgan perspective here was to encourage Ryanair to open up new routes from STN and substantially grow the number of passengers. When it opens a new route BAA STN gives FR a very heavily discounted price. As the route matures so the price rises. Although the deal has been renegotiated several times over the last fifteen years , its basic structure is in place today.

Details of the deal have never been revealed. However it has been said that BAA charge Ryanair around 17 per cent of the normal fee per passenger. This suggests that BAA effectively contributes around £10 a passenger for a return trip through STN compared to the full charge. What is not clear is what deals, if any, other airlines may have negotiated.

More of the above can be found in the book 'Ryanair. How a Small Irish Airline Conquered Europe' by Siobhan Creaton published by Aurum.
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:37 am

Good book it is too, havnt Air Berlin negotiated similar, and if they have they surely EZY would have too.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 14):
For one, there is not mention of the 83% figure as he outlines above in the Davy reports that I have just read through on the FR website.

Again, can you not research? It is very simple to find.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 14):

Pearson, if you could provide a link to your statement of 83%, then I would be most grateful.

Now, based on your inability to research and your probable inability to read a thick document, I draw your attention to the March 2006 independent report on FR by Davy Stockbrokers. The easiest way to find it is by visiting: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about...age=Invest&sec=atreports&cov=davy. I can't remember which page the figure is on, but it is at the beginning of the survey interpretation, which is between pages 1 and 10. Enjoy.

No doubt you - Mr Thinks He knows Most - will now argue against what the industry analyst and expert has stated, in a fashion indicative of someone who thinks he knows most - but doesn't.

Now, who shall I believe? An obviously very biased person with very limited knowledge - you - or an industry analyst and expert? My, what a difficult decision.

[Edited 2006-08-23 13:03:34]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
FlyKev
Crew
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:13 pm

Interestingly, apparently 'we all' loathe FR, and people dont return.
Pe@rsons clearly shown the true facts, and I can back that up with personal experience.
Interestingly, I flew FR with my mates this year, we were impressed with what we got for what we paid, and will reyurn to them again. Out of us, one of us had already flown before, and had previously found the airline to live to its standards and was happy to re-fly.
I know relatives who have flown FR and found them to be good VFM.
So, lets stop the FR bashing, and the silly assumptions, when clearly, yes FR might not be the most luxurious, but they get the job done. And cheaply. And at £30rtn should you expect BA pricing?

Back on topic, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair is an interesting read.

Kev.
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
 
David L
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
It probably delivers to a number of customers what they want - but not to everybody. And those who expect more than a flying bus tour at the lowest possible service level will never accept their offering.

They don't have to deliver to everybody, they only have to deliver to enough customers to keep them going along nicely. They don't claim to be the best airline for everybody. Legacy airlines don't deliver to customers who can't afford to fly with them or prefer not to pay, even indirectly, for the extras.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
Also, if anything goes wrong (no matter who or what is responsible) I prefer to have a carrier which cares about its customers.

You get what you pay for. If you want cheap flights with no frills, Ryanair does the job and clearly a lot of people think so.

I prefer the extras you get with legacy carriers but you can't argue with the fact that Ryanair's model is working very well.
 
MRURUN
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:51 pm

My my, Pearson, how touchy you are over an AIRLINE!!! Misquoting me, not following my link as above. THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE FIGURE(S) YOU HAVE GIVEN ME. I have read the document in question it is the one I linked. It is not there, I reread, but again, give me a page and paragraph and I will humbly apologise. Till then..........

As for what area of the aviation business I'm in, well, lets just say I work in a very REGULATED office!!!

Its a shame your incapable of proving your assertions, but then, it appears I misjudged your capabilities and have been blinded by your huff. Reminds me of BA staff in the Mid to late 90's, they just didnt see it coming!

Aerosexuals, was a phrase that M O'l used once wasnt it?
 
planesarecool
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):

Since you're clearly incapable of reading, I'll spell it all out for you.

Davy Stockbroker's report, Page 7:

What is the main purpose of your journey:

Business: 23.15%
Leisure: 37.57%
VFR: 39.29%

Have you ever flown Ryanair before:

Yes: 83.17%
No: 16.83%


Your Age

Under 18: 0.23%
18-24: 9.84%
25-34: 24.37%
35-44: 21.59%
45-54: 22.31%
55-64: 17.30%
65+: 4.36%

PAGE 8

How long did you wait to check in?

No queue: 16.12%
01-10 minutes: 42.65%
11-20 minutes: 25.47%
21-30 minutes: 9.75%
31-60 minutes: 4.46%
1 hour+: 1.66%

Friendliness of staff?

Excellent: 29.22%
Good: 52.53%
Average: 14.74%
Poor: 2.15%
Very Poor: 1.36%

I can't be bothered with the rest, but its all on pages 8-11.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):
Misquoting me, not following my link as above. THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE FIGURE(S) YOU HAVE GIVEN ME. I have read the document in question it is the one I linked. It is not there, I reread, but again, give me a page and paragraph and I will humbly apologise. Till then..........

It is there. I read it an hour ago. The problem is you can't read.

Planesarecool who CAN read read it and copied-and-pasted some of it.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 21):
Since you're clearly incapable of reading, I'll spell it all out for you.

LMAO. He clearly is incapable of reading! Wait until he replies with 'these aren't proper facts...' LOL.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 19):
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
It probably delivers to a number of customers what they want - but not to everybody. And those who expect more than a flying bus tour at the lowest possible service level will never accept their offering.

They don't have to deliver to everybody, they only have to deliver to enough customers to keep them going along nicely. They don't claim to be the best airline for everybody. Legacy airlines don't deliver to customers who can't afford to fly with them or prefer not to pay, even indirectly, for the extras.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
Also, if anything goes wrong (no matter who or what is responsible) I prefer to have a carrier which cares about its customers.

You get what you pay for. If you want cheap flights with no frills, Ryanair does the job and clearly a lot of people think so.

I prefer the extras you get with legacy carriers but you can't argue with the fact that Ryanair's model is working very well.

Hear, hear! What a fantastic reply. One of the best I have read - and from someone who doesn't fly FR.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):
As for what area of the aviation business I'm in, well, lets just say I work in a very REGULATED office!!!

Its a shame your incapable of proving your assertions, but then, it appears I misjudged your capabilities and have been blinded by your huff.

I am surprised you work at all, given your inability to construct proper, legible sentences with the correct punctuation. Still, they say educational standards are slipping. And don't even get me started on not being able to read. But then, nobody's perfect.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 14):
For one, there is not mention of the 83% figure as he outlines above in the Davy reports that I have just read through on the FR website.

I think I have a name for people like you.... AIRLINE SNOB.

I have over 1mn airmiles in my accounts, have flown over 700 times and until 2004 I made fun of everyone who flew Ryanair...

Then I bought a Ryanair Ticket for Poland, for 1/2 the price of BA, LO etc..
and thought oh hell what am I doing...

At the airport, I arrived 4 hours early, brought my own toilet roll, tea bags and blanket..

Crept towards the shiny 737, stalked past the front door, around the wing to the rear steps... closed my eyes took a deep breath and climbed up the stairs...

In the Cabin, I opened my eyes.. dived for a seat, breathed in shrunk myself down and crouched by a Seat I had mistaken for a suitcase... and realised it was a seat...

then as my nerves settled I realised...

The plane was new, the seats were clean, the seats were the same width as everyone else, they served tea and coffee and their was toilet rolls in the lavvy.

Even more.. they flew on time, landed early and my luggage had not been sold on a market in east London.


Seriously mate..

get over yourself.. Ryanair is an airline like any other... you check in, you get a boarding pass, you get on as quick as you can, you grab a seat, hold on to your pants and fly away... only invariably they are cheaper.

I still fly SNOB-AIR but when Ryanair is more practical and cheaper.. I fly them too.

You should try it... imagine far away hithero unknown airfields in the middle of no where as opposed to major terminals, cowboy landings on cobble stone runways...aint it great.

And if you save 50 quid... then go again somewhere else next week, instead of getting 250 airmiles and paying £50 more for the priviledge.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
David L
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 23):
What a fantastic reply

Thanks. I just get a bit irked by the "it doesn't suit me so no-one else should be allowed" approach. I'd be just as irked if an LCC fan tried to tell me the legacy carriers shouldn't be allowed to operate with all their "unnecessary" extras.


Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
I still fly SNOB-AIR

So do I and I'm still an airline snob. I just don't feel I have the right to stop other people doing something different. My mum's also an airline snob but she often visits people in Dorset. She lives near Prestwick so the PIK-BOH flights are perfect for her. No-one's going to tell her she should go all the way up to GLA, fly to London or Bristol and get one or two trains from there.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
Then I bought a Ryanair Ticket for Poland, for 1/2 the price of BA, LO etc..

That high? When I flew STN-KRK in May, I paid about £14.97 one-way including tax. GDN-STN, a little less.

Looks as though you were ripped-off if you only saved 50%.  Big grin

Then again, it's all relative. My colleague paid about £60 all-in for STN-REU-STN with about 2 weeks notice. I wouldn't have paid that, but he was chuffed to bit.

When I fly FR, I pay 1p-couple of pounds.

What about STN-SNN-STN tax-inclusive for £8.33?  Smile

What about Morocco from £15.79 one-way tax-inclusive from LTN?  Wink

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
still fly SNOB-AIR

So do I. Indeed, my next trip is JER-LGW on Nov. 6. Then with EY to BKK on Nov. 11. I also travel a lot by 1st class rail. Yet I am most loyal to FR.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting David L (Reply 19):
They don't have to deliver to everybody, they only have to deliver to enough customers to keep them going along nicely. They don't claim to be the best airline for everybody. Legacy airlines don't deliver to customers who can't afford to fly with them or prefer not to pay, even indirectly, for the extras.

Check the quote I replied to. Someone wondered about why FR is allegedly "misperceived" and I explained why it is rated as "low quality" by many people.

Quoting David L (Reply 19):
You get what you pay for. If you want cheap flights with no frills, Ryanair does the job and clearly a lot of people think so.

Many LCCs offer a much better product at similar prices.

Quoting David L (Reply 19):
I prefer the extras you get with legacy carriers but you can't argue with the fact that Ryanair's model is working very well.

Unfortunately, yes. I wouldn't care about those - but the problem is other businesses which offer a higher standard of service are threatened and may be forced to leave the market. People who care for quality will have less options and are forced to choose the crappy product. And once a monopoly is gained, prices go up. We have had a similar development in parts of the foods market in Germany - I would hate so see that in aviation, too.
That's why I oppose FR and its policy of spamming the skies with a low quality product.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3211
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 26):
I also travel a lot by 1st class rail.

So do I - but then again i only pay £2 for first class travel anywhere in the country  Wink

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 26):
What about STN-SNN-STN tax-inclusive for £8.33?

Exactly, yet some people still expect a service comparable to that of BA's First class. I had to laugh when i flew LGW-ORK-LGW a few months ago, and passed signs about Southern's £9 fares from Gatwick to Victoria one way, yet i'd paid a pound less and got a return flight to ORK. I don't get fully pampered, wined and dined on a Southern commuter train, so why should i expect it on a flight?
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:54 am

I understand your argument, P.H., but I disagree with it: if customers wanted a better product, they would flock to the alternatives instead, thereby leaving FR high-and-dry. But that is not the case. Instead, they flock to FR in ever-higher numbers, indicative of the price-sensitive nature of aviation markets, particularly on short-haul routes in Europe.

FR, with by far the lowest cost base, simply cannot be matched on costs - which are set to decline still further until 2010 (bar fuel) - and, crucially, price.

The other airlines, the so-called traditional bunch, need to gain as many competitive advantages as they possibly can, such as convenience, extra comfort, a quicker airport transitition, less stress, hassle, frustration, etc, while concurrently reducing their costs - hopefully without negatively affecting their perceived superior offering - and thereby offering lower fares. But that won't work: it is rare to have sustainably high quality and low prices.

Very few airlines - U2 included - really compete with FR and, essentially, very few airlines are a competitive threat to FR. Thus, it looks like it will simply go from strength-to-strength.

An alternative is for the so-called traditional carriers to find niches which FR can't or won't inflitrate, such as what T3 is doing - short flights using small aircraft and offering high frequencies designed for the businessperson or for those with no workable alternative; what Aer Arran is doing; or concentrate on long-haul travel.

But what is very probable is that point-to-point flying within Europe will in-time be left to three, possibly four, LCCs, of which FR will be the leader and U2 the second, and another one. Yes, others will operate, but they'll quickly die out. And about 3 so-called traditional airlines, most probably BA, LH and AF/KL (and other acquisitions), will do the long-haul flying.

Most importantly, FR is just a business. If other carriers can't or won't adapt to the challenges faced, then that is their problem. It is a competitive world in which only the fittest survive - whether we want that or not.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 28):
I don't get fully pampered, wined and dined on a Southern commuter train, so why should i expect it on a flight?

PRECISELY! The thing is people know what flying used to be like: for the more well-off. It was a luxury, not an everyday, normal method of transportation. But times are changing - and, for some, it is negatively changing. For me, and millions others, it is very positive: change brings lower fares which brings considerably more options.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
CalAir
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:15 am

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:32 am

I seriously cannot understand why some on here slate FR so much! Obviously some people will have had poor experiences with them and so this is going to influence their opinion of the airline somewhat, but personally, I have had no problems with them at all. In fact, I was very impressed! We flew with them last Oct from STN-SXF for £30 rtn. The 738 was immaculate both ways, we left bang on time and landed early, the crews were smiling at 5am and the tea and coffee was hot and didnt taste of dishwater (take note BA). All in all, a pleasure to fly with! And to be fair, even if the crew had been miserable as sin, the plane had been flilthy and we'd left 3 hours late, I STILL wouldn't complain. After all, theres that age old saying, you get what you pay for.
British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:35 pm

Incidentally, FR has slightly modified its front page: it now includes a list of new flights in 2006 in an easy-to-read, at-a-glance format, complete with origin, destination and start date. It is far easier and better.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ryanairCRL
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:10 pm

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):
give me a page and paragraph and I will humbly apologise. Till then..........



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 21):
Davy Stockbroker's report, Page 7:

What is the main purpose of your journey:

Business: 23.15%
Leisure: 37.57%
VFR: 39.29%

Have you ever flown Ryanair before:

Yes: 83.17%
No: 16.83%

where are the apologies ?
http://flyingtom.myphotoalbum.com
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 27):
Check the quote I replied to.

And I was giving my views on the same points. Note I didn't say you were wrong.  Smile
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 32):
where are the apologies ?

He ran off thoroughly defeated.  Smile
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3211
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 34):
He ran off thoroughly defeated

 rotfl 
 
MRURUN
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:17 pm

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 21):

Found it!!! Well, Pearson, my apologies, I even had the document printed with me while I was away and read it too. Your 'friend' Planes.... pointed that I had never apologised to you, so there you are. I was away Thurs/Fri.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
AIRLINE SNOB.

Yup, well done, and that includes avoiding flying STAR.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
Ryanair is an airline like any other...

No, it is a highly sucessful business, I not trying to pick hairs, but the AIRLINE industry (as in the accepted concept of the word) has been sullied by Ryanairs association with it. M O L could make money selling manure (I'm resisting temptation). It just happens that he has turned his success to the airline industry.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
You should try it... imagine far away hithero unknown airfields in the middle of no where as opposed to major terminals, cowboy landings on cobble stone runways...aint it great.

I have tried it! Yes, it was cheap, no, I was NOT a satisfied customer. I make NO apologies, for buying a cheap I class BA tix to NAP/ATH etc, and landing in a MAJOR airport, without the cowboy landings.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 27):
Many LCCs offer a much better product at similar prices.

Spot on.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 27):
People who care for quality will have less options and are forced to choose the crappy product. And once a monopoly is gained, prices go up

You are far more articulate than I.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 29):
Thus, it looks like it will simply go from strength-to-strength.

I've said this before and I will say it again, you sound exactly like BA staff did in the Mid 90's. They didnt know what hit them and became far more enviornmentally aware afterwards. Be careful.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 29):
And about 3 so-called traditional airlines, most probably BA, LH and AF/KL (and other acquisitions), will do the long-haul flying.

And what happens to Mrs. Jones in NCL, whose off to SYD? Fly EZY to STN, train to LPL St, tube to paddington, HEX to LHR? Sounds like the airline industry would be doing themselves no favours by that.

Quoting CalAir (Reply 30):
people will have had poor experiences with them and so this is going to influence their opinion

Thank you, as I mentioned before here, or on another thread, I have extremely negative experiences on my FR flights. I have experienced the same on SK, I dont fly them or like them, if at all possible, and likewise with FR.

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 32):
where are the apologies ?

See above.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 34):
He ran off thoroughly defeated.

Did I, I dont have the time to be on here 24/7. In fairness though, Planes...advised me Sunday 27/08 and I came a-hunting for the thread. I stand by my much earlier assertion that these were conducted on the FR website, so obviously, peeps weren't there for purchasing Finnair tix, its sorta already decided that they are there from previous experience or from interest to purchase!! But, as I laid out above, I owe you an apology.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 35):

 indifferent 
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 36):
without the cowboy landings.

LOL. That statement utterly confirms your complete lack of knowledge and disregards any credibility you might have left. No doubt you'll now argue endlessly about how their pilots aren't properly trained - no, they're merely spotty teenagers board with their pea-shooters.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
MRURUN
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:17 pm

RE: Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:29 am

Now, pearson, I was quoting, TONGUE IN CHEEK,

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
cowboy landings on cobble stone runways...

from that! I will not mention the BAC1-11's and the (in)famous ex Romanian Air Force Pilots.