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airbuseric
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NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:46 pm

This morning NW DC-10 N234NW returned to AMS due to 'security reasons'. It was operating flight NW42 AMS-BOM.

2 RNLAF F-16 Fighter Jets were scrambled to accompany this aircraft back to AMS, were it made a direct landing on rwy 27.

According Dutch press agency ANP the Dutch military police took a few from board for questioning. Will be continued I guess...
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
kl911
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:53 pm

The Associated Press reports Dutch F-16s escorted a Northwest Airlines flight bound for India back to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport and that authorities later detained several passengers for questioning, an airport spokeswoman said.
 
MH017
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:03 pm

N234NW; flight now shown as 'cancelled' to BOM...
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
kl911
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:10 pm

Update:

Military police arrested 11 persons and are questioning them now. Also the crew is being questioned. Still no news what happened onboard ..
 
runway23
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:18 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 3):
Military police arrested 11 persons and are questioning them now. Also the crew is being questioned. Still no news what happened onboard ..

Were those people arrested or detained? There is quite a big difference between the two.
 
usnseallt82
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:34 pm

Crye me a river
 
lordg
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:40 pm

Airport police say there have been no arrests-bbc
If you're going through hell- keep going!
 
Bicoastal
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:26 pm

One of the television "news" channels said that there were only 149 passengers on board. I thought India flights were packed and lucrative? Maybe it's good that United stays out of the market.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
One of the television "news" channels said that there were only 149 passengers on board. I thought India flights were packed and lucrative? Maybe it's good that United stays out of the market.

It's one flight on one day - hardly a representative sample to make sweeping generalizations like that.
 
ltbewr
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:50 pm

An MSNBC.com story on this noted that the destination of this flight was to Mumbai, where there were those horrible train bombings about a month or so a go. Thus, there is probably greater watching of passengers to prevent any other like attack or on an aircraft going there and may not have realized some people who are on or have similar names to those on 'no fly' lists were on board until after the flight took off. Hopefully by later today we will get some news as to why these people were removed from the flight and being questioned.
As to only 149 on board, this is a Tuesday, normally a slow day of the week for air travel worldwide. I am quite sure Friday-Monday flights are very full.
 
Timology
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:07 pm

More info at Nu.nl (Dutch only)

The plane dumped fuel over the IJsselmeer.
"Arm in arm we are the harmless sociopaths"
 
aseem
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:28 pm

off hand it seems like a bunch of morons on flights, having no clue how to behave in air these days. I would suppose a person with wrong intent would not behave oddly on flight...
anyway it is still a developing situation.
rgds
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mke717spotter
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:53 am

I thought I heard something about one or more of the passengers were acting suspicuous.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 12):
I thought I heard something about one or more of the passengers were acting suspicuous.

Where would you have heard this, as it happened in Europe?
 
vatveng
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 12):
I thought I heard something about one or more of the passengers were acting suspicuous.

Where would you have heard this, as it happened in Europe?

He probably heard some talking head "expert" on TV mention it, or a radio morning show talking about it without having any real facts.
 
A319114
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:15 am

Communications between ATC, NW42 and two F16 scrambled to escort the DC-10 have been recorded and are available on the internet

http://fmc.dotnet-services.nl/waves/nw42_intercept.wav
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
One of the television "news" channels said that there were only 149 passengers on board. I thought India flights were packed and lucrative?

Not quite and certainly not always.

I flew on the HYD-AMS KLM MD11 flight last year and there were exactly 20 passengers on board.
And on most of my other flights to India, I have always seen lots of empty seats.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 12):I thought I heard something about one or more of the passengers were acting suspicuous.
Where would you have heard this, as it happened in Europe?

Heard this on radio-canada too. Absolutely not precise. I guess they did not have any more information...
When I doubt... go running!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:42 am

KSTP-TV just said that the 12 passengers got up, got together in one area of the plane, and started using cell phones. They also said the 12 people have now been arrested.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Indio66
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:56 am

According to CNN, the 12 passengers have been arrested.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 16):
And on most of my other flights to India, I have always seen lots of empty seats.

The return flight to the US will be chock full......August is a very heavy month for India to USA travel.....

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
They also said the 12 people have now been arrested.

Any info on the backgrounds, nationality of these pax....?
 
georgiaame
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:20 am

Background info? That would be politically incorrect to reveal.

But what the hell. I have it on excellent sources that they were 12 demented, blue haired Swedish Christian Grandmothers, between the ages of 64-73, and they were demanding that the Dutch authorities immediately stop the consumption of herrings displaced from the North Sea. If their demands were not met, they were going to blow up the aircraft as it approached Mumbai International, which when you think about it, was a perfectly reasonable set of demands.

We can only wonder just how much styling gel they were carrying in their handbags to carry out the dastardly deed.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
CALMSP
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:21 am

probably 12 white americans...............
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 21):
Background info? That would be politically incorrect to reveal.

Sorry pal...I appreciate your attempts to be politically and socially correct....but in today's world, it is very important to know who these people are (in case they were genuinely guilty of any wrongdoing).....

If they were indeed blue haired Swedish Christian grandmothers, we have a right to know, so that in future, we can be careful of blue haired Swedish grandmothers....  Big grin

[Edited 2006-08-23 19:31:55]
 
lowecur
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:36 am

I'll bet they will all be released shortly. The Islamists are just playing mind games. If they can get people nervous about flying, that is still an effective way of dragging down the airlines economically. Also, racial and religious profile discussions will take a confrontational tone....which plays right into the terrorists hands. Any time you can get the media into these types of hysteria headlines, it benefits terrorists.

This type of behavior should be banned on all airline travel. At the very least all of these individuals should have their names placed in the computers and never be able to book a flt again. Let em take a train.

[Edited 2006-08-23 19:41:20]
 
georgiaame
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:40 am

There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that they will all be released shortly!

We wouldn't want to get Amnesty International involved in this, would we?
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
ehho
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:45 am

Wow...

I just got to my hotel in Mumbai after flying AMS-ZRH-BOM with LX. Despite me coming from AMS, security here in BOM didn't give me any special attention. This morning, while waiting for my LX 737 to ZRH, I saw N234NW come in from the States. Oddly, here in BOM I noticed an NW DC-10 in the new scheme sitting on a maintenance apron. It was too dark for me to see the reg. I wonder if this has anything to do with the situation, or is it just a normal situation that there are two simulatneous NW rotations to BOM?

How's AMS doing securitywise? This morning it all seemed so calm..

I wonder who those 12 charged are. BBC World is reporting that rumors this isn't just another case of air rage, but something more serious.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
sk601
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 26):
here in BOM I noticed an NW DC-10 in the new scheme sitting on a maintenance apron. It was too dark for me to see the reg. I wonder if this has anything to do with the situation, or is it just a normal situation that there are two simulatneous NW rotations to BOM?

Nothing to do with this situation. A/C was supposed to arrive in AMS monday, but has a technical problem and therefor grounded.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 24):
I'll bet they will all be released shortly.

In other words, the full weight of the Dutch legal system will be thrown at them?
 
jwenting
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:10 am

yup.

Nothing special at Schiphol today. No extra security, no additional police visible outside the terminal or in the Plaza.

No nervous KLM and airport staff either on the bus to the station from the maintenance area (which I join along the way at the office park).

Probably indeed just people misbehaving themselves, as happens sometimes and now more often leads to a diversion than it would have in the past.
I wish I were flying
 
jaysit
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
KSTP-TV just said that the 12 passengers got up, got together in one area of the plane, and started using cell phones. They also said the 12 people have now been arrested.

Any moron who uses a cell phone in flight should be thrown off the plane.

Twelve morons using them together should be arrested and force fed NW's "delicious" inflight meals in prison.

And if these people really were "terrorists," then all I can say is that Terrorism, Inc. appears to be hiring the stupidest of the stupid.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
superhub
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
KSTP-TV just said that the 12 passengers got up, got together in one area of the plane, and started using cell phones. They also said the 12 people have now been arrested.

Probably a flash mob.
 
CALMSP
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:34 am

i dont quite understand why the pilot needed F16s to escort the plane down. does that make the pilot feel safer b/c he has two planes on either side of him??
 
ua777222
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 32):
i dont quite understand why the pilot needed F16s to escort the plane down. does that make the pilot feel safer b/c he has two planes on either side of him??

I think in the event of a cockpit intrusion there is an extra option of security for not only the passengers but for those under and around the aircraft. I think had this happened on 9/11 and the aircraft in questing were shot down, lives would have been saved and a tragedy would have been averted. However, that's like slamming the barn door after the horse ran out.

My  twocents 

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 32):
i dont quite understand why the pilot needed F16s to escort the plane down. does that make the pilot feel safer b/c he has two planes on either side of him??

I don't think the pilot has any say in that....they're probably there to shoot down the aircraft if it is hijacked and tries to make any dangerous move like flying into important buildings.....
 
777fan
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
I thought India flights were packed and lucrative? Maybe it's good that United stays out of the market.

Maybe it's because it was a NW flight to India! (cheap shot, I know)

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 12):
I thought I heard something about one or more of the passengers were acting suspicuous.

Where would you have heard this, as it happened in Europe?

Really, really big ears.

Seriously, though, it's reassuring to see that no matter how stupid regular pax or cowardly Islamist facist terrorists may be, rationally thinking people are taking their suicidal game seriously.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 32):
i dont quite understand why the pilot needed F16s to escort the plane down. does that make the pilot feel safer b/c he has two planes on either side of him??

The NWA pilot had nothing to do with that decision. That would have been decided by the Dutch.
 
CALMSP
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:01 am

according to media reports the pilot had requested a military escort back to AMS.........
 
reyes27
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 28):
In other words, the full weight of the Dutch legal system will be thrown at them

zing!
 
ua777222
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 36):
The NWA pilot had nothing to do with that decision. That would have been decided by the Dutch.

Have to disagree. The Dutch were not aware of the reasons for which the aircraft requested the jets along with the reasoning for returning to AMS. It's at the pilots discretion, as seen in this case.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
ua777222
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:01 am

Please note they are now noting 12 arrested. Then again, it is Fox News...

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
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chrisnh
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:04 am

I wonder where in Vermont these 12 people live?  duck 
 
ua777222
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:07 am

One last question;

I flew out of AMS to IAD or ORD about 4-5 years ago [I know we left from one of the two and went to the other on the return, my guess is IAD-AMS/AMS-ORD T7 there, 763 Back]. After going through normal security, we reached our gate where we went through another round of security at our gate alone (screening of bags, person, and ID/Ticket). Is this process still in action and if so, is it only on United States bound flights? Or US airlines? If so, would this have been done on this flight?

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
RIXrat
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:12 am

For quite some time BBC had held back that the 12 were only "held." But now both BBC and CNN say that all 12 were indeed, "arrested."

Unless these people were complete idiots by passing cell phones back and forth during the take-off process, I don't blame them for getting arrested and I glad there were U.S. Marhalls aboard to keep the food fight to a tolerant level (last part a joke).
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 42):
I flew out of AMS to IAD or ORD about 4-5 years ago [I know we left from one of the two and went to the other on the return, my guess is IAD-AMS/AMS-ORD T7 there, 763 Back]. After going through normal security, we reached our gate where we went through another round of security at our gate alone (screening of bags, person, and ID/Ticket). Is this process still in action and if so, is it only on United States bound flights? Or US airlines? If so, would this have been done on this flight?

for as far as I know only US Flights out of AMS. I think IAD always has the 777? And ORD had the 763
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:18 am

"A U.S. government official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, said crew members and air marshals observed the passengers trying to use cell phones and passing them among themselves while the airliner was taking off."

Source

In today's air transport environment, who the hell would do this? Your typical air traveller knows this would raise red flags.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
jaysit
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:24 am

I hate to say this, but some Indian passengers have a distinct inability to follow rules. I've seen passengers on India bound flights get up seconds after take off to rummage in overhead bins, use cell phones while the flight is on approach or in the lavs, and rush to the exit while the aircraft is still taxiing to the gate.

I wonder if this band of 12 were of that variety?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 46):
I hate to say this,

don't deny the truth...
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons''

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 46):
I hate to say this, but some Indian passengers have a distinct inability to follow rules.

Like this?

Mark

[Edited 2006-08-23 22:45:17]
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: NW DC-10 Returns To AMS For ''security Reasons

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 26):
How's AMS doing securitywise? This morning it all seemed so calm..

Tonight, no big deal. All restrictions to the UK have been lifted a couple of days ago and no extra measures taken after NW42 returned.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 32):
i dont quite understand why the pilot needed F16s to escort the plane down

I don't know who decides this but the Dutch AntiTerrorist squad had been alerted, they made the arrests on board.
It is regular procedure in European airspace to alert fighters when there's an unknown aircraft or safety warning. Those guys are raring to go anytime, the so called QuickReactionAlert It must have been a spectacular sight.

[Edited 2006-08-23 22:42:30]
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!