toltommy
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No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:36 am

Having been through corporate mergers in the past, I was curious to see how the US/HP merger was going. I usually fly out of DTW, and the US gates are still seperated from the gates used by HP. This week I flew out of CLE, and got to see first hand. Aside from the two seperate kiosks and check-in positions, anything HP related is gone. My PHL flight was delayed due to flow control, so I had time to sit and observe the staff working the two side by side gates.

I was disappointed to see no interaction at all between the former HP employees who were working the PHX flight, and the US employees working the PHL flight. The aircraft used for the PHX flight had been repainted in the US colors. All signage at the gate in CLE said US Airways. Yet the agents working the PHX flight referred to the flight as "America West".

I realize that there are pay issues, computer issues, et al. I fly US almost weekly now, and that was the first time I saw the two work groups side by side. I was disappointed to see the former HP'ers clinging to the past.
 
boeingguy1
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Thread starter):
I was disappointed to see the former HP'ers clinging to the past.

I might be wrong, but I beleive that they still use America West flying titles and flight numbers because the two operating certificates havent merged as one, therefore they still are America West flights.

Also, if anything, the US agents should be clinging to the past... its HP who bought them.
Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
 
flyCMH
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:52 am

Quote:
I might be wrong, but I beleive that they still use America West flying titles and flight numbers because the two operating certificates havent merged as one, therefore they still are America West flights.

I'm pretty sure you're right. It's not that America West and USAirways employees are being hostile towards each other, it's just that the employee groups have not officially merged, so America West workers still handle America West flights, and USAirways workers still handle USAirways flights. No interaction between the two is really all that necessary when working their respective flights, unless one happens to cancel or is severely delayed.
 
ourboeing
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:00 am

I felt the same way too. I have another post going right now and it has to do with my experiences with them losing my bags twice in three days.

Now, if you notice the sticker you see right next to the aircraft door (on the outside), "This flight is operated by Americawest airlines" even though the plane has been painted in the new US Airways colors.

My route back home was PHX-PHL-BWI and while checking in at PHX, I was only given a boarding pass for the PHX-PHL leg of the flight and when I asked for the second boarding pass, I was asked to check with the US Airways counter.

OURBOEING
 
N766UA
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:18 am

They still operate seperately, even though their positions all say USAir now. I had a friend coming in from PHX last month and his flight was delayed so I asked the US agent how long it might be, he said "Sorry, I don't know, we don't work that flight."
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flashmeister
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:41 am

The AA-TWA merger was similar to the US-HP merger, at least in the realm of the "name" used for the airline versus the company actually operating the flights.

If I recall correctly, all flights regardless of origin or destination were referred to as "American" flights, and they had a similar sticker ("operated by TWA") at the door when you boarded the plane.

I don't remember ever hearing gate staff refer to a flight operated by TWA as a TWA flight when making announcements, etc. I'm sure it happened as a mistake out of habit at the beginning of the merger, but when I transited STL a couple of months after the TWA flights entered AA's system as codeshares, it was all American except for the note on my itinerary and the sign at the door.

It seems to me that US Airways should be at (or past) the same point in their merger, so it does seem a bit odd that they're still calling flights "America West".
 
Cactus739
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 5):
so it does seem a bit odd that they're still calling flights "America West".

There's nothing odd about it. The flight is operated by America West Airlines, with America West employees on an America West plane. Until the certificates are merged, that's how it should be done.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
as739x
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:50 am

They are two seperate airlines still. Its a 2 year process. If you listen to ATC, they are still "USair" and "Cactus". Flight numbers are still seperate. Right now its more of a codeshare if I am not mistaken.

Talking to my friend in San Francisco, he said it seems to be working easier there. At least working side by side. His personal opinion though was with SFO and US's seniority, the US employees had nothing to worry about. With less senior US station and senior HP stations, thats where the tension would be.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
PDPsol
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 6):
Until the certificates are merged, that's how it should be done.

And when will HP's operating certificate be assumed by US? Also, regarding the homogenization of both carriers' employee seniority lists, will this happen simultaneously or is it a completely different issue?

Finally, US appears to have SO many subsidiary carriers, one easily loses track of them

- PSA
- Mid Atlantic [shut down now that the E70 fleet has been assumed by Republic?]
- Piedmont and Allegheney [doesn't one of these carriers operate the DHC-8-100/200/300 fleet?]

Plus all the myriad of outsourcing agreements with regionals, Republic, etc.

All rather confusing...
 
TropicBird
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:34 am

The FAA requires the aircraft to be operated separately in all instances until the certificates are merged next April 2007. Also, the ticketing computer systems are different and union issues keep the work groups separate for now.

It is interesting how the general public's perception can be mislead by what they perceive they are seeing or not seeing.
 
mah584jr
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 8):
Finally, US appears to have SO many subsidiary carriers, one easily loses track of them

They do indeed have a lot of carriers, but most people see the US Airways sticker on the side of the plane and think automaticly that US is the flyer. US Express offers excellent regional connections also IMO. They're adding many new routes in their system. I think it's fascinating to watch the express system grow.

I have also seen that most US employees are really happy with the merger and feel that company morale is much higher than it has been in a while. So, I assume that most US agents won't have much difficulty in working with HP agents.
 
N766UA
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 8):
Piedmont and Allegheney [doesn't one of these carriers operate the DHC-8-100/200/300 fleet?]

Piedmont and Allegheny were merged into just Piedmont, and yeah they fly the entire Dash-8 fleet for US.
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Thread starter):
I was disappointed to see the former HP'ers clinging to the past.

There are no doubt cultural issues between the work groups of the two companies. That's perfectly normal.

Republic and Northwest operated for some 10 years with separate labor agreements that segregated the staff.

The only reason the Western/Delta merger went so "well" was because Western employees lost their union representation shortly after the takeover and were inetgrated immediately into Delta seniority lists and payscales. And just how well things went is still a matter of contention.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Junction
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:30 am

To avoid passenger confusion like this, it was my understanding the HP agents were supposed to make announcements like "US Airways flight 123 operated by America West". I guess it's hard for some of them to stick with that rather cumbersome wording.
 
flashmeister
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 6):
The flight is operated by America West Airlines, with America West employees on an America West plane. Until the certificates are merged, that's how it should be done.

That being the case, you'd hear a lot of "Comair flight"... "Republic flight"... "Mesa flight", because they're on separate certificates too. You don't hear that, though. I doubt seriously that an unfamiliar gate agent would want to say "Chautauqua".

The scenario that Junction explained ("Delta flight 4567 operated by Comair") is much more prevalent.
 
phljjs
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:16 am

In PHL, the gate agents are all US East employees and always say "US Airways flight number xxx, operated by America West Airlines."
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:29 am

To my surprise the friction between the two carriers has been a bit low, for now. I just got back from a trip to Florida and the US(east) agts in CLT were very nice to me. I went through 2 mergers at CO in early 80s and late 80s and things didnt go so well. Different cultures are known to clash. Give it time and people come around, im slowly getting used to saying USAirways and not America West.
A line is evidence that other people exist.
 
malexander131
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:41 am

Are US and HP flight numbers re-aligned yet? I thought that one of the priorities for post-merger in 2006 was to have flights re-numbered as soon as the codeshare was in place so all flights could just be reffered to as US Airways without confusion....
"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
 
HPRamper
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:26 pm

The flight number realignment is under way.

FWIW I've been on other airlines who did the same double-reference. One that comes to mind is a Mesaba flight I was on - Welcome on board NW flight xxxx, operated by Mesaba Airlines..." Besides, when the certificates are combined, the agents won't even refer to America West at all.
 
heavy747
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:21 pm

In Vancouver, when announcements are made they say both airlines.. ie.. America West Us Airways flight 156 is paging the following passeneger.. your bags are in the processes of being removed from the aircraft hehehe..

Andrew
Aviation Enthusiast Extraordinaire - Airports visited so far in 2016: YVR-SFO-HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM-MNL-NRT-IAH-CU
 
RandyWaldron
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Thread starter):
I realize that there are pay issues, computer issues, et al. I fly US almost weekly now, and that was the first time I saw the two work groups side by side. I was disappointed to see the former HP'ers clinging to the past.

Oh my god....what a bunch of whining. The colors may be the same, however, legally, technically, and operationally - FOR NOW - they are still two seperate entities. Period.
"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
 
flyboyaz
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:23 pm

We are still required by the company to announce which airline is operating the flight. In the case of US Express...I just announce the US flight number, since both are the same now...and it's operated by Mesa so really the America West name has nothing to do with it anymore.

As far as employees not talking, well I have heard good and bad. Most of what I heard is snobbiness on the part of US East employees not wanting anything to do with ex-HP employees. I have no idea why, but there is a bit of "we're better than you" attitude. I heard a story of one employee that told one of our HP employees, when we heard about our increased pay scale, that she didn't deserve to make the same amount of money as they did....that is just stupid! Hopefully things will get better soon...but honestly I believe it's the east employees that really need to adjust their attitude.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
HPRamper
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 14):
That being the case, you'd hear a lot of "Comair flight"... "Republic flight"... "Mesa flight", because they're on separate certificates too. You don't hear that, though. I doubt seriously that an unfamiliar gate agent would want to say "Chautauqua".

I have heard it on other airlines. One that comes to mind - "Welcome on board Northwest flight xxxx operated by Mesaba Airlines, with service to xxxx"

So it's not just a US thing.
 
N766UA
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 22):
One that comes to mind - "Welcome on board Northwest flight xxxx operated by Mesaba Airlines, with service to xxxx"

All Delta flights say the same thing... "Welcome to Delta flight 6570 operated by Shuttle America" or "Delta 4800 operated by Atlantic Southeast," etc.
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FCYTravis
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:09 am

It's a federal requirement that aircraft operated by one company but marketed as a different brand must clearly identify the operating company. That's why you'll see "Operated by Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation" or "Operated by ExpressJet Airlines" printed on the side of the airplane near the door. Those requirements also stipulate that the operating airline be identified in verbal announcements.

All ex-AWA aircraft, even those still in full America West colors, carry similar verbiage on their Heritage Symbol stickers at the 1L door - "This aircraft operated by America West Airlines."
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
NIKV69
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
Also, if anything, the US agents should be clinging to the past... its HP who bought them

Amen to that!

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 9):
It is interesting how the general public's perception can be mislead by what they perceive they are seeing or not seeing.

 checkmark 
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
rthrbeflying86
Posts: 241
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:48 am

Does anyone know how the flight number breakdown is going to be after the realignment? It seems like all US-east flights are above 900 or so, and US-west (HP) flights taking the lower numbers.
I'd rather be flying.
 
ouboy79
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
Also, if anything, the US agents should be clinging to the past... its HP who bought them

Amen to that!

Hmm. Hasn't this been addressed a few billion times? In the SEC filings, it was stated that "America West will be referred to as the acquiring carrier for accounting purposes only." So to that aspect...you could say HP bought them. However, to buy something you need money...something of value. US Airways had the money. Remember it was Bruce Lakefield, the money many himself, that was out there raising cash to 1) keep the company alive and later 2) finance the merger.

Really the only people that keep debating this are those from the West. Enough is enough. Essentially everything is mostly new...from the corporation all the way down. Do the East people have an attitude? Probably. Why? They have been through this over and over again. No airline has been through more mergers than US Airways. This is a company with a very long history back to All American Airways. America West was only about 20 or so years old...and their employees really didn't have the life experiences of their co-workers out East. Yeah they did a trip through Chapter 11...but nothing really stuck. Even during the time when they were just about dead.

The merger is proving one thing...US Airways needed to grow to be profitable, not the downsizing that previous management encouraged. Things will continue to evolve for the airline, as employees get integrated more and more - DOH of course.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:38 am

Ok, here's what I know... in CLE the signage is merged to US Airways, however at the counter and gates there are computers for the US rez system and the old HP system... so that's why at the counter they are separate checkin's depending on destination and at the gates 1 podium has the US computers and 1 has the HP computers... until the end of the year from what I hear... thats when they begin moving to one rez system... For the employees in CLE it stinks because they do still bid separate, but for example this fall CLE looses a PHX trip and the LAS goes to 4X weekly.. so the bid is going to be light on hours for the old HP Employees...
Why do I fly???
 
HPRamper
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RE: No Love Between US/HP Employees In CLE

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 28):
but for example this fall CLE looses a PHX trip and the LAS goes to 4X weekly.. so the bid is going to be light on hours for the old HP Employees...

We are losing frequency at PDX over fall as well. I believe a big reason is because they are going to be running birds through the paint shop at a very high rate (I've seen the outlay on it). Mostly starting September, although our first 737 is in the shop as we speak  Smile

Should be another interesting one coming out as well in September, spotters be on the lookout.