dc10s4ever
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"Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:51 am

Back in the early 1990's United started an "Airline within an airline" concept called Shuttle by United. The program lasted several years, then was later integrated back into mainline United. Why did the program fail?
 
N1120A
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
Back in the early 1990's United started an "Airline within an airline" concept called Shuttle by United. The program lasted several years, then was later integrated back into mainline United. Why did the program fail?

One of the big reasons it failed was because it really didn't change anything other than increasing frequency on certain western routes. The aircraft still had F cabins, the same staffing, etc.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AirScoot
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:07 am

I flew quite a bit up and down the west coast (LAX-SEA/LAX-PDX) in the mid 90's. In coach, most fares did not allow for preassigned seating which put them squarely up against WN on many routes. Their price structure was similar to UA's but their fare rules and restrictions were heathen. If you had a "regular" UA flight connecting to a "shuttle by united" flight any changes required a degree in advanced mathamatics and geometry to figure out.

Ultimately it turned out - IMO - to be "Southwest With First Class" rather than "Shuttle By United".

I only flew it for the miles.. and the fact that my company paid for it  Wink
 
N1120A
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
In coach, most fares did not allow for preassigned seating which put them squarely up against WN on many routes.

Didn't you get them at check-in?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AirScoot
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Didn't you get them at check-in?

Most times, yes... at least if you were flying out of a station other than LAX. At LAX it depended on how grumpy the people at the ticket counter in Terminal 8 were. The rest of the time you had to get through the throng at the gate to get them. For some reason they held back about a bajillion seats (ok.. maybe 1/2 a bajillion) for gate assignment.

My experience with them was LAX/SFO/SEA/PDX.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:17 am

I saw a lot of those a/c in SAN. One came in right after the other. What a spectacular sight.

MCOflyer
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Stitch
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:31 am

UA started Shuttle to compete with WN and AS along the West Coast. To improve yields, they never installed Economy Plus and to save weight, they removed the ovens and refrigeration equipment from the plane. So for a time, you could not get milk in Economy, since they could only keep enough "on ice" for First Class.  Sad

Since AS offered First Class and UA wanted to both appease their elites and try and lure full-fare passengers from WN, UA kept two rows of First Class on the Shuttle planes. In fact, UA used to offer free upgrades at the gate to Mileage Plus 1Ks.

Unfortunately for UA, the wage and non-fuel block costs of the SHT (as I refer to it) 737s were identical to those of the mainline 737 fleet, so UA's cost structure could not remain profitable at WN pricing. And with UA offering F for free to top-tier elites, they were less likely to buy an F ticket (even though fares were quite reasonable due to competition with AS).

So UA ended Shuttle as a formal program and eventually installed Economy Plus into the fleet.
 
TropicBird
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:35 am

The Shuttle is now called TED.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 7):
The Shuttle is now called TED.

Ha. Except with different colors and none of those annoying perks that high yield customers appreciate Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
N1120A
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 7):
The Shuttle is now called TED.

Actually, the two concepts are quite different
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:58 am

My understanding of the whole "Shuttle" concept was the employees would be at much lower wages than mainline United and you could not "cross over" the fence to mainline. In essence they were two totally separate carriers and Shuttle could gain some cost advantages by a single fleet, lower wage employees, and a simplified operation in comparison to mainline UAL.
 
travatl
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
Why did the program fail?

The same reason they all fail. You can not fix a 500 airplane problem with 40 airplanes.....
 
LAXintl
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:04 am

The Shuttle program eventually was discontinued and rolled into mainline ops as the reduced pay rates for the crews were eliminated by the pilot contract at the time.

Crews operating Shuttle routes had been earning a lower hourly pay rate, however made up for it via significantly improved productivity versus mainline flying.

When the cost advantage of Shuttle ops was lost there was really no reason to keep a separate operation fenced off from the remainder of United.

The Shuttle however cant be viewed as a failure. United managed to compete quite well against Southwest and defended its SFO and LAX hubs. The Shuttle was also quite innovative as it served as a test ground for many operational efficiency experiments at United which were later rolled out across the remainder of the company including various boarding techniques, e-tickets, aircraft handling procedures etc.

I somewhat miss the frequent 737 "Guppy" (UA internal nickname) flying up and down the California coast along to places like PHX & LAS. Also one benefit was free unlimited upgraded to F class for 1K flyers on Shuttle routes.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Jonno
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:08 am

They charged for First Class service and you got no meal, just drinks in plastic glasses and all the peanuts you could eat.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 10):
My understanding of the whole "Shuttle" concept was the employees would be at much lower wages than mainline United and you could not "cross over" the fence to mainline. In essence they were two totally separate carriers and Shuttle could gain some cost advantages by a single fleet, lower wage employees, and a simplified operation in comparison to mainline UAL.

That wouldn't have worked. Most of the stations that had Shuttle flights also had mainline flights to the hubs. So you had the same people working the counters, gates, and ramp.

That might be able to work these days with Ted. There are a few stations with Ted only flights, LAS, MCO, TPA, MIA, etc.
 
Brick
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:15 am

When was Shuttle by United officially launched and when did it officially end?
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4everRC
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Brick (Reply 15):
When was Shuttle by United officially launched and when did it officially end?


Stuttle was ended in October of 2001.
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United_fan
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:23 am

I only flew 'Shuttle' once LAS-LAX-TUS & back in June 2000. I remember the fare was very cheap @ $160 r/t.
The Shuttle planes had/still have? no trolley carts,drinks were ordered and brought on a tray.
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charlienorth
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:33 am

The shuttle was run with pay and workrule differences for pilots, Ramp and mx procedures were also different,in SFO they might run 8-10 flights through a gate in an 8 hour shift as opposed to 6 or less in mainline ops,contrary to popular WN did not run the Shuttle out of business,as long as the Shuttle operation was in effect there was a No-layoff clause in the ALPA contract and after 9-11 it was clear that there would be lay-offs.
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777fan
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 5):
I saw a lot of those a/c in SAN. One came in right after the other. What a spectacular sight.

What made that approach any different than another one?!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Ha. Except with different colors and none of those annoying perks that high yield customers appreciate

...and different aircraft, no first class, etc.! Regardless, I see your point!


Did/does/do the remaining "Shuttle" 737s have E+?


777fan
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CWAFlyer
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:36 am

Part of the problem too was that Shuttle flew on city pairs that simply didn't make sense for a 737. Routes like LAX-SBA, LAX-PSP, and LAX-SAN. Most (and maybe all at one point) LAX-SFO flights were Shuttle and would frequently get cancelled and combined when SFO flow hit. I actually saw a couple planes in ORD a couple months ago that still had the Shuttle titles on them. I thought it was kinda funny.
 
LAXintl
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 14):
Most of the stations that had Shuttle flights also had mainline flights to the hubs. So you had the same people working the counters, gates, and ramp

The bigger stations had decicated staff and teams for the shuttle operation.
Uniforms for Shuttle staff (including FA's) included things such as t-shirts etc.
Much more casual than regular mainline.

Quoting Brick (Reply 15):
launched and when did it officially end

1994 ended just after 9/11.
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MaverickM11
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 19):
...and different aircraft, no first class, etc.! Regardless, I see your point!

...and no forethought Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
greg3322
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting United_fan (Reply 17):
I only flew 'Shuttle' once LAS-LAX-TUS & back in June 2000. I remember the fare was very cheap @ $160 r/t.
The Shuttle planes had/still have? no trolley carts,drinks were ordered and brought on a tray.

That explains something I wondered about. I was on a former Shuttle 737-500 two weeks ago, DEN-TUL, and the cabin crew served drinks on trays instead of directly from the carts.
 
travatl
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:49 am

I flew First Class on Shuttle once PHX-LAX. For a short hop, it seemed no different than mainline F/C. I remember I had a coupla beers, but I think real glassware was used, and the flight attendants weren't in any casual uniforms... It was my only experience on Shuttle, but it was a pleasant one (unlike the UA DC10 redeye to IAD I connected to that night.... oi!).

- Travis
 
roseflyer
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
UA started Shuttle to compete with WN and AS along the West Coast.

I think it was more so to compete with WN than AS. The only Shuttle route out of Seattle was to San Francisco, which of course competed with WN to OAK and SJC. United did not operate Shuttle by United service between LAX and SEA, which is a route dominated by Alaska. Shuttle by United was more in the dominant Southwest cities like the Bay Area, LA Area, Phoenix and Las Vegas.

During the shuttle by United era, Alaska was still serving hot meals in economy on flights up and down the west coast. Alaska's slogan was "For the same price, you just get more" and it was true compared to Southwest. Alaska provided way better service than Shuttle by United. However nowadays, I would say that United is better since it doesn't have the tight turns and operational delays on the west coast that Alaska does, but the service offered on the two airlines is very similar.

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 7):
The Shuttle is now called TED.

There is a big difference. Most notably, first class is gone from Ted. But yes Ted has the same tight turns and overbooking that Shuttle had.
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ramprat74
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:21 am

Shuttle flights had a max range. Thats why you didn't see them on the LAX-SEA runs. The LAX-PDX was just below the max range. I don't remember what the range was off the top of my head.
 
warreng24
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
they never installed Economy Plus

Didn't EconomyPlus roll out AFTER Shuttle went away?
 
LAXintl
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 26):
Shuttle flights had a max range.

Indeed did. I also forgot the range limitation.

In addition the Shuttle was barred from operating intra-hub flying with the exception of LAX-SFO corridor.
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Stitch
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 19):
Did/does/do the remaining "Shuttle" 737s have E+?

Shuttle planes were converted to Economy Plus during 2004.

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 27):
Didn't EconomyPlus roll out AFTER Shuttle went away?

Economy Plus was announced on August 5, 1999. Shuttle by United was discontinued on October 3, 2001 (effective with the November schedule changes). However, the 777XP (trans-Pacific config 772ER) and ex-SHT 733s and 735s were not converted with the rest of the mainline fleet. The 777XP conversion was done in 2003 and the ex-SHT planes in 2004.
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
they removed the ovens and refrigeration equipment from the plane. So for a time, you could not get milk in Economy, since they could only keep enough "on ice" for First Class.

Actually- alone with the side galley and one of the rear lavs- more galley space was added ALONG with a refrigerator. It is still in use today.

They also added a trash compactor. They are still on some A/C- but are being removed.

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 7):
The Shuttle is now called TED.

Not quite.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 10):
My understanding of the whole "Shuttle" concept was the employees would be at much lower wages than mainline United and you could not "cross over" the fence to mainline.

Mainline flight attendants could work Shuttle Flights. I had a bad experience with Mainline FA's on a shuttle route I flew at least once a week. The worst experience I've ever had on United- the FA was a flat out b*tch and didn't like "flying on an airplane like this!"

Quoting 777fan (Reply 19):
Did/does/do the remaining "Shuttle" 737s have E+?

As said above- EX-shuttle planes do have E+. However- the galleys are still the same. No carts- just drawers and stowage compartments.

They are HATED by UA Flight Attendants.

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 20):
I actually saw a couple planes in ORD a couple months ago that still had the Shuttle titles on them.

They fly all over the country now.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 30):
They also added a trash compactor. They are still on some A/C- but are being removed.

Goodbye and good riddance. Those compactors were a piece of crap.

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 30):
As said above- EX-shuttle planes do have E+. However- the galleys are still the same. No carts- just drawers and stowage compartments.

They are HATED by UA Flight Attendants.

Ditto my comments above. I've been meaning to ask for a while now, so who came up with that crap?! When I cleaned UA planes for DGS, we dealt with Shuttle planes all the time. Once UA asked us to not open the doors for safety reasons (they didn't want the slides accidentally deployed) the Shuttle planes and the Airbus were the only aircraft we could empty the galleys on. Otherwise the trash went back to ORD or DEN--even at night. How many ex-Shuttle planes are still in the UA fleet? I counted about 50 in 2003-04, but that was before the 737-500s began being parked in the desert.
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We're Nuts
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Quoting TropicBird (Reply 7):
The Shuttle is now called TED.

Actually, the two concepts are quite different

Indeed. TED is in fact the ass-end of United.
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CMK10
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:09 am

Shuttle's legacy lives on as many, if not all, of the aircraft have not had the ovens reinstalled. Therefore, if one shows up on a route like SEA-LAX or ORD-LGA, the First Class meal will be a cold one.
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
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Stitch
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 30):
Actually- alone with the side galley and one of the rear lavs- more galley space was added ALONG with a refrigerator. It is still in use today.

Weird. I distinctly recall milk not being available on Shuttle flights for some time in Economy (Hemispheres even noted the fact in the drink section in back) and when flying in First, I recall them removing the milk from the ice trays where they had been packed in by Catering.

I will note more recently that I have seen full cold breakfasts served on ex-SHT planes, so perhaps the refers were added back in at a later date? Or perhaps milk was too expensive back then and they cut it in Economy for cost-saving purposes.  Smile
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 14):
There are a few stations with Ted only flights, LAS, MCO, TPA, MIA,

Actually LAS is not Ted only...it has UAX flights to PSP and FAT.

Same with MCO...they still have mainline service to LAX and SFO

-m

 airplane 
 
Boston92
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting United_fan (Reply 17):
drinks were ordered and brought on a tray

Recently, I flew BDL-ORD UA 1249 on an a/c that had a United Shuttle livery and they had not carts, you had to order them right after take-off, I think I got mine when we were taxing to the gate at O hare.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
Weird. I distinctly recall milk not being available on Shuttle flights for some time in Economy (Hemispheres even noted the fact in the drink section in back) and when flying in First, I recall them removing the milk from the ice trays where they had been packed in by Catering.

I will note more recently that I have seen full cold breakfasts served on ex-SHT planes, so perhaps the refers were added back in at a later date? Or perhaps milk was too expensive back then and they cut it in Economy for cost-saving purposes.

I do remember that milk was not available on Shuttle flights. I think the reason that milk was not available is because of the amount of space available and the fact that the flights were catered for many legs in a day.

I'm not sure what the fridge was used for- but now they use it for water, Orange Juice, Milk, and crew meals.

They can do meal services on shuttle planes now for first class. They are NOT regular United First meals however- as they are all cold and served in plastic BOB type packages. No trays at all on shuttle planes.
 
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Stitch
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 37):
They can do meal services on shuttle planes now for first class. They are NOT regular United First meals however- as they are all cold and served in plastic BOB type packages. No trays at all on shuttle planes.

Yup. As one FA noted when serving drinks in plastic cups "they don't let me play with the breakables". Big grin
 
kgin11
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:49 am

Most of my UA flights were Shuttle SFO-ONT / ONT-SFO. At the time I was living in Marin County so it was easier to go to SFO than OAK (airport bus-wise). Many of the Shuttle flights were delay-prone with 50-60% on-time performance. Once I arrived at SFO for a 2 PM departure and didn't arrive in ONT until nearly 9PM (it's a 1 hour flight). However, these flights were usually full.

There wasn't all that much to credit UA for the Shuttle concept. The fares weren't that competitive to WN at the time and the delays and cancellations were too common. Usually when the delays built up, especially on flights between SFO and LAX, they would consolidate everybody onto a DC-10 or even a 742 or 744 and fly everybody at once.

My last Shuttle flight was in October 2001, two days before the fold back into mainline service. There were exactly six pax on board. We were all put in F. The FAs were mainline by then. The flight was memorable for two reasons: F seat at econ price and a full can of Coke.

OK, there was one good thing and a half-good thing about Shuttle compared to WN: Channel 9 and assigned seating (and having my best friend working in customer service . . . lots of upgrades).

Now I live in Oakland and take WN exclusively even though UA now does SFO-ONT with the TED scare-bus 320.

Insider joke: UA agents called shuttle "sh*ttle"
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Jamake1
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:15 am

Just to add what's already been said; After United signed a very expensive pilot contract, Shuttle lost its cost advantage. Additionally, right after 9/11 the 727's and 737-200 aircraft were immediately grounded. United had to make up for the fleet loss by better utilizing Shuttle aircraft. Additionally, Shuttle became somewhat ineffecient on bad weather days at SFO. You may recall that UA had SFO-LAX flights about every 20 minutes throughout the day. During single runway operations, the flights would back up considerably and the whole westcoast system would go into disarray. It was not uncommon to see a 747-400 rolled out to fly SFO-LAX for 4-5 Shuttle flights that had all cancelled in a row, or were significantly delayed.

I will say, I never did like working Shuttle flights because hand-running drinks seemed much more inefficient. I finally got the system down by not taking drink orders in advance. I would just go row to row and ask customers what they wanted to drink. The order forms were more of a hassle and were confusing to read. I LOVED the trash compactors. I thought they were great, but operationally, they posed some problems (especially for ground and maintenance crews). I think every aircraft should have trash compactors.

I do think that Shuttle served its purpose. United and Southwest have learned to co-exist fairly peacefully across the bay from one another because of Shuttle. United retreated from OAK and Southwest retreated from SFO. TED is a slightly different concept. It has allowed UA to remain serving lower yielding markets such as LAS, PHX, and Florida. Additionally, it has helped UA grow its presence in Mexico and the Caribbean. At least it has the buy-on-board option on longer stage lengths, which Shuttle didn't offer. Furthermore, TED has carts, which makes service delivery more efficient. And then there's Economy Plus, which helps to minimize the inconvience of not being able to upgrade to first class. At least more higher status Mileage Plus customers can have slightly more leg room rather than just 8 being able to upgrade when Shuttle was around. I was pleased to see United re-enter the SFO-ONT market, with TED. The market had been without any airline service post 9/11. Glassware is now back in first class on former-Shuttle aircraft, along with cold meals, if a meal is scheduled for the service in first class. The Shuttle brand was officially discontinued on November 1, 2001.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
MCOflyer
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:25 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
The Shuttle however cant be viewed as a failure.

Agreed. It was an experiment like the one from CO.. They finally integrated it into mainline just like CO did to their experiment.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 19):
What made that approach any different than another one?!

I had never seen a shuttle plane before and it was an awesome sight. I've seen a 733 in the new colors only.

As far I know MIA gets mainline. LAS gets a mainline a/c every so often.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
AirScoot
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):
The only Shuttle route out of Seattle was to San Francisco, which of course competed with WN to OAK and SJC. United did not operate Shuttle by United service between LAX and SEA, which is a route dominated by Alaska. Shuttle by United was more in the dominant Southwest cities like the Bay Area, LA Area, Phoenix and Las Vegas.

Are you totally sure about that? I know I didn't have to walk from Portland to Seattle. They may have discontinued the route service at one point, but they did, indeed, run the flight SEA-LAX circa 1995-1996.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 7):
The Shuttle is now called TED.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Actually, the two concepts are quite different

AH Beat me to it, N1120A

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
The Shuttle however cant be viewed as a failure. United managed to compete quite well against Southwest and defended its SFO and LAX hubs. The Shuttle was also quite innovative as it served as a test ground for many operational efficiency experiments at United which were later rolled out across the remainder of the company including various boarding techniques, e-tickets, aircraft handling procedures etc.

I agree especially with the concept of e-tickets. Shuttle invented that as a cost saving measure, now its the INDUSTRY STANDARD in the US. That's a major accomplishment. UA uses many of the innovations on Mainline today. Laxintl is 100% correct.

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 27):
Didn't EconomyPlus roll out AFTER Shuttle went away?

Econ + was rolled out before Shuttle was killed off.

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 40):
I do think that Shuttle served its purpose. United and Southwest have learned to co-exist fairly peacefully across the bay from one another because of Shuttle. United retreated from OAK and Southwest retreated from SFO.

I think the succesful defense of the SFO hub was a major win for Shuttle. The concept was sound, it needed to be reworked ever now and again so it could adapt to changing situations. However, Goodwin and his team weren't very good at ADAPTING to anything as evidenced by thier nearly augering UA into the ground trying to avoid changing thier plans.

Goodwin killed Shuttle after 9-11 that's true, but I think that had very little to do with Shuttle itself. Remember that after 9-11 UA retired all of its "Thunder Guppies" the 737-200s. This left alot of East Coast stations without planes to fly the routes. Shuttle had gotten the newest most fuel efficient 737's from the fleet when they started up, for obvious reasons. Those planes needed to be available for Mainline flights. UA never said as much but it seemed to be the case to those of us working in the trenches in 2001 and 2002.
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N1120A
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 43):
Goodwin killed Shuttle after 9-11 that's true, but I think that had very little to do with Shuttle itself. Remember that after 9-11 UA retired all of its "Thunder Guppies" the 737-200s. This left alot of East Coast stations without planes to fly the routes. Shuttle had gotten the newest most fuel efficient 737's from the fleet when they started up, for obvious reasons. Those planes needed to be available for Mainline flights. UA never said as much but it seemed to be the case to those of us working in the trenches in 2001 and 2002.

Honestly, UA should have dumped the 727s first, then the 732s.
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United_fan
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:08 pm

Also,UA order the -500's just for Shuttle . Also remember the white -300 Shuttles? They looked sharp when they were clean.
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roseflyer
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 40):
At least more higher status Mileage Plus customers can have slightly more leg room rather than just 8 being able to upgrade when Shuttle was around.

Well 8 first class seats and the rest being economy was nothing different from what mainline offered in that same era. Economy plus on Ted airplanes is nice, although there seems to be more rows than necessary for elites.

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 42):
Are you totally sure about that? I know I didn't have to walk from Portland to Seattle. They may have discontinued the route service at one point, but they did, indeed, run the flight SEA-LAX circa 1995-1996.

I didn't know shuttle was used between SEA and PDX. That route is only express now and has had occasional mainline airplanes.
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AirScoot
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 46):
Quoting AirScoot (Reply 42):
Are you totally sure about that? I know I didn't have to walk from Portland to Seattle. They may have discontinued the route service at one point, but they did, indeed, run the flight SEA-LAX circa 1995-1996.

I didn't know shuttle was used between SEA and PDX. That route is only express now and has had occasional mainline airplanes.

They didn't run them between SEA and PDX. I was referring to LAX-SEA. You said there was no nonstop service.. I know there was nonstop LAX-PDX as well as LAX-SEA... I was on it more than a couple of times on branch office inspection visits.

The inference was that if they didn't do nonstop SEA and the closest city being PDX...

nevermind.
 
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
Honestly, UA should have dumped the 727s first, then the 732s.

They were grounded simultaneously immediately after 9/11. Refer to the second sentence in my post #40.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 45):
Also,UA order the -500's just for Shuttle .

Not quite correct. The 737-500's were in the United (Mainline) fleet well before the Shuttle concept was ever an idea. Mainline has always flown the 500's. There are a number of such aircraft that still have hot ovens and serving carts. They flew many mid-con trip pairings (ORD-OAK/SMF/SJC). Those flights mostly operate Airbus aircraft now.
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ramprat74
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RE: "Shuttle By United" Question

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 45):
Also,UA order the -500's just for Shuttle . Also remember the white -300 Shuttles? They looked sharp when they were clean.

Wrong, UA ordered and were receiving the 737-500's a couple years before Shuttle By United was a twinkle in WHQ's eyes.