qwame
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:09 pm

Beside CO, SWA and recently JetBlue, none of the other airlines seem to fly direct from IAH to JFK or LGA. Does anyone know the reason why.
 
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STT757
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting Qwame (Thread starter):
Beside CO, SWA and recently JetBlue, none of the other airlines seem to fly direct from IAH to JFK or LGA. Does anyone know the reason why.

WN via ATA.

AA for years flew LGA-HOU but it was dropped a few months ago, DL used to fly once daily M88 between JFK and IAH but that was dropped around 9-11.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bnamaxx
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:15 pm

Well, WN doesn't fly to any New York airport from any Houston airport, with the exception being HOU-ISP with intermediate stops (some may or may not consider ISP an NYC airport). As far as IAH is concerned, seems that CO pretty well has that market cornered. AA was flying HOU-LGA for several years and dropped it. TZ picked that route up and I beleive is doing it 2x daily. Not sure what effect B6 will have. Unless DL adds a flight to JFK to feed its trans Atlantic service, I doubt you'll see any new entrants.
 
N1120A
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Qwame (Thread starter):
Beside CO, SWA and recently JetBlue, none of the other airlines seem to fly direct from IAH to JFK or LGA. Does anyone know the reason why.

Southwest flies to none of those airports, however ATA does fly LGA-HOU, which Southwest codeshares on. As for the reason why other airlines don't fly NYC-HOU/IAH, the reason is the hub and spoke model. CO operates hubs at both EWR and IAH, meaning they fly the most between Houston and New York. B6 operates a hub at JFK, meaning connecting the largest city in the country with the fourth largest was inevitable. Southwest's traditional strength in the 3 major Texas markets means that they have used ATA's position as an LGA carrier to run a couple flights a day between the two cities.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
optionscle
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
connecting the largest city in the country with the fourth largest was inevitable.

I thought Houston was #3. Did it slip in the last couple of years?
 
bnamaxx
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 4):
I thought Houston was #3. Did it slip in the last couple of years?

I don't beleive Houston has ever been considered the third largest city. It has never surpassed LA or Chicago in population, though I expect it will do so eventually.  Smile
 
Junction
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:55 pm

DL has also flown IAH-JFK on and off in the past. The market comes and goes for them.
 
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jfklganyc
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NYC-HOU routes and who serves them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:01 am

"DL used to fly once daily M88 between JFK and IAH but that was dropped around 9-11."

I didn't know that. I thought they always codeshared with CO.

I saw a pic in a database once of widebody service on Pan Am between JFK and IAH.

PJ
 
CXA330300
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Qwame (Thread starter):
Beside CO, SWA and recently JetBlue, none of the other airlines seem to fly direct from IAH to JFK or LGA. Does anyone know the reason why.

WN doesn't fly to NY.

AA flies from JFK, and I think ATA from LGA as well. Its a market that the three (especially CO) serve very well already. CO has something like 15 flights between NYC and the Houston area each day.
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 2):
(some may or may not consider ISP an NYC airport

ISP is at least in NY State unlike some other "NYC airports"
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gigneil
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
the largest city in the country with the fourth largest was inevitable.



Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 4):
I thought Houston was #3. Did it slip in the last couple of years?

In terms of metro, Houston isn't either.

N
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
AA for years flew LGA-HOU but it was dropped a few months ago, DL used to fly once daily M88 between JFK and IAH but that was dropped around 9-11.

My understanding is that the AA flights were off and on throughout the late 90s and this decade -- that is to say, it wasn't exactly a long-standing tradition. But, if someone can correct me on that, I'd appreciate it.

It boggles my mind that AA flies an MD-80 from LGA-MSY, but can't make the HOU-LGA route work. With the number of times I've flown between those cities in the past year, I probably paid for at least a few of those flights myself.

On a related note, does TZ still have a business class? If so, do they have it on the planes they use on the LGA-HOU route?
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 9):
ISP is at least in NY State unlike some other "NYC airports"

Oh, come on. This is a rather insane argument, don't you think? EWR is incredibly well-connected to the city. ISP, from my understanding, isn't bad, but I'm not sure why an intervening state line is so prejudicial. I mean, is BUF a better airport for the NYC area than EWR?

I imagine you were probably being facetious, but EWR is a perfectly suitable airport for service to the NYC area, and preferable in some respects to LGA and JFK. ISP is not.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:36 am

"It boggles my mind that AA flies an MD-80 from LGA-MSY, but can't make the HOU-LGA route work. With the number of times I've flown between those cities in the past year, I probably paid for at least a few of those flights myself."

I don't think they were really serving HOU as much as they were serving the HOU/AUS markets combined.

It was a thru flight LGA-HOU-AUS. It was a way of getting around the perimeter rule at LGA. HOU is within the perimeter; AUS is not. So AA had a monopoly on the LGA-AUS route with direct, same plane service.

They were also the only airline flying from JFK/LGA with direct service to AUS. That scene changed dramatically when DL and B6 started nonstop JFK-AUS early this year. AA dropped the route.

PJ
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 13):
I don't think they were really serving HOU as much as they were serving the HOU/AUS markets combined.

It was a thru flight LGA-HOU-AUS. It was a way of getting around the perimeter rule at LGA. HOU is within the perimeter; AUS is not. So AA had a monopoly on the LGA-AUS route with direct, same plane service.

I know, and I thought about mentioning that in my post, but I can't shake the feeling that there should have been some way for AA to make HOU-LGA alone work. Which isn't a hunch sitting on a real solid foundation, since I suspect the primary (only?) reason for the HOU's stop existence was, as you said, the perimeter rule. But if MSY-LGA is feasible, I see no immediate reason why LGA-HOU would not be -- and if I recall correctly, AA announced the cancellation of the flight well before B6 or DL started nonstop service. Plus, I would maintain that JFK service does not at all equate to LGA service.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
EWRandMDW
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:47 am

If memory serves, CO ran EWR-HOU on multiple frequencies back in the '90s and at least 1 frequency in more recent years.
 
qwame
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:57 am

What is the perimeter rule?
 
N1120A
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 5):
I don't beleive Houston has ever been considered the third largest city. It has never surpassed LA or Chicago in population, though I expect it will do so eventually.

First, it isn't even close to Los Angeles proper (just over half the population and even further on metro) and more than half a million behind Chicago. It likely won't pass either as Houston proper is reaching full build out mostly because of their antiquated zoning laws (or lack thereof) and will mostly see suburban growth.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 10):
In terms of metro, Houston isn't either.

That is very true oink, though I was making it simple
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ATA767
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting N844AA (Reply 11):
On a related note, does TZ still have a business class? If so, do they have it on the planes they use on the LGA-HOU route?

They do but tend not to use it on that route.
 
nateDAL
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
It likely won't pass either as Houston proper is reaching full build out mostly because of their antiquated zoning laws (or lack thereof) and will mostly see suburban growth.

That is nonsense.

Lack of zoning makes it far easier to inner city areas for denser housing. Underutilized properties in Houston are redeveloped far easier than in any other city because the only real legal barriers are deed restricitons (if there are any). Densification is happening all over Houston. Look at how many homes have been torn down and replaced with condos are garden apartments. Look at the redevelopment of midtown or the many large apartment complexes and high-rise condo projects.

Alternatively, look at the nonsense that Wal-Mart had to go through to build their Tchoupitoulas store. Get the government involved if you want to stop development and densification.

Sure, there is going to be a lot of suburban growth, but zoning will impede densification of the city...
Set Love Free
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 19):
Densification is happening all over Houston. Look at how many homes have been torn down and replaced with condos are garden apartments. Look at the redevelopment of midtown or the many large apartment complexes and high-rise condo projects.

Yeah. There's a lot of potential for development and densification inside the loop -- lots of vacant lots in formerly marginal neighborhoods, currently marginal neighborhoods that are gentrifying at the perimeter, and dozens of new apartment megacomplexes going up in fairly trendy areas.

As to the comment about Houston's lack of zoning being an impediment to future development, I remember reading an article once that determined empirically that no-zoning works essentially as well, if not better, than a zoning regime. Houston, of course, was the case study for the no-zoning regime, and basically preferences, deed restrictions, and market forces combine to create a sort of ad hoc zoning system.

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 18):
They do but tend not to use it on that route.

I don't know how they'd market or develop it, but I feel like there's a business travel niche that TZ might be able to exploit between HOU-LGA. I haven't flown TZ much, but I've had great experiences the few times I have. As the sole airline offering direct service between the most convenient airports in Houston and New York, it seems like with a business class on that flight, they could make something happen. I guess it would be tough for them to offer the frequencies necessary to compete with CO out of IAH.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
isitsafenow
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:58 am

You wanna go way bac, try DL with DC 7s and Eastern with Electra's then
DC-8's. Oh, did I mention somebody called Braniff?

safe  biggrin 
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STT757
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 7):
didn't know that. I thought they always codeshared with CO.

Nope, around early 2002 DL dropped their once daily M88 flight from JFK-IAH. That flight operated from the mid-'90s to '02. CO and DL were not codesharing or a part of Skyteam at that time (atleast CO was not a part).

Quote:
I saw a pic in a database once of widebody service on Pan Am between JFK and IAH.

Pan Am flew 747s between JFK and IAH, Pan Am had a mini hub at IAH thanks to the National Takeover, they flew 747s and DC-10-10s JFK-IAH-MEX.

Eastern was also big in Houston, first at IAH then after the Texas Air take over they moved to HOU. Eastern also had a mini hub at IAH, A300s between JFK and EWR and IAH. Later after the Texas Air Takeover Eastern had twice daily LGA-HOU 727s and twice daily DCA-HOU 727s.

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 15):
If memory serves, CO ran EWR-HOU on multiple frequencies back in the '90s and at least 1 frequency in more recent years.

In 1989 I flew LAX-HOU-EWR on CO, the LAX-HOU flight was on a 737-300 and the HOU-EWR flight was on a 727-200.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:13 am

CO recently increased their IAH-JFK flights to 4 daily, 3 737-500s and 1 737-700. Hopefully they will eventually upgrade one (or more) of those flights to 737-800s

You will still see plenty of CO 737s at HOU today, Houston Hobby is one of two heavy maintenance bases for CO airlines 737s (the other heavy maintenance base is Orlando MCO).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 4):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
connecting the largest city in the country with the fourth largest was inevitable.

I thought Houston was #3. Did it slip in the last couple of years?

Never been higher than 4th, very happy there in that slot.

Who would want to compete in the market with CO from their largest and second largest sized HUBS? AA proved they didn't want to when they dumped the HOU/LGA trips.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
bnamaxx
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 13):
It was a thru flight LGA-HOU-AUS. It was a way of getting around the perimeter rule at LGA. HOU is within the perimeter; AUS is not.

How is it that DEN is within the LGA perimeter rule and AUS is not? AUS is closer, no? Does DEN have an exemption?
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 25):
How is it that DEN is within the LGA perimeter rule and AUS is not? AUS is closer, no? Does DEN have an exemption?

Denver was grandfathered in as there was existing service between LGA and Denver when the perimeter rule was enacted, there was no service between Austin and LGA when the rule was enacted so the are excluded from nonstop flights to LGA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bnamaxx
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:41 am

Thnx for the update STT757. So what is the mileage limit from LGA?
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 27):
So what is the mileage limit from LGA?

1,500 miles, there are two exceptions.

Denver as mentioned, and on Saturdays. There is no perimeter rule on Saturdays so airlines could fly LGA-LAX (etc.) if they want.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 24):
Who would want to compete in the market with CO from their largest and second largest sized HUBS? AA proved they didn't want to when they dumped the HOU/LGA trips.

Excellent point, but the fact remains that IAH and EWR are both (in my opinion) slightly suboptimal for New York-Houston point-to-point service. And, of course, CO no longer has any service at all at HOU. LGA-HOU is still, I think, the ideal for travel between those two cities and right now there's only one player on that route. I wonder if anyone else can make it work.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
iowaman
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8):
WN doesn't fly to NY.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
1,500 miles, there are two exceptions.

Denver as mentioned, and on Saturdays. There is no perimeter rule on Saturdays so airlines could fly LGA-LAX (etc.) if they want.

 checkmark  DL is taking advantage of the no perimeter rule on Saturdays and started LGA-LAX and LAS recently.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
It likely won't pass either as Houston proper is reaching full build out mostly because of their antiquated zoning laws (or lack thereof) and will mostly see suburban growth.

Yes this is completely false. Since the 2000 US census Houston's majority growth has been inside the IH_610 loop and with multi-unit condo/rowhouse density. Over 20 Highrise condos. 4th ward/midtown rowhouses and memorial park small lot duplexes. Some tract's density have gone from 3000 ppsqm to over 10,000. most suburban growth is outside the city limits now and not annex-able. But we digress.

As for the routes. I too was a bit surprised AA stopped the AUS-HOU-LGA route. The few times I flew it AUS-HOU (mainly last minute stuff) there were decent loads but I have no idea what the ticket prices were into NYC.
Some on this board have seemed surprised at ATA's loads on the Houston flights.


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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:33 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 12):

Just saying ISP is in New York. For me the most convient is JFK as it is only 10 min away followed by LGA. EWR would never be an option as it is way out of the way. ISP is a 30 min ride on the Belt for me.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
qwame
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:34 am

It was a thru flight LGA-HOU-AUS. It was a way of getting around the perimeter rule at LGA. HOU is within the perimeter; AUS is not. So AA had a monopoly on the LGA-AUS route with direct, same plane service.

WHAT IS THE PERIMETER?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:46 am

"WHAT IS THE PERIMETER?"

HaHa. Sorry, we forgot to answer that!

LGA has a perimeter rule. All flights over 1500 miles MUST use JFK when flying into NYC. The only flight permitted over 1500 miles are flights to DEN. UAL was flying the route back in the early 80s when the rule was imposed so it was grandfathered in.

Also, there is no rule in effect on Saturdays. So as mentioned earlier, flights such as LGA-LAX can be flown on Sat only.

Even before the perimeter rule was in effect, most flights over 1500 miles went to JFK anyway . . . it just worked out that way. DEN was the only exception.

PJ
 
ScottB
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting N844AA (Reply 29):
Excellent point, but the fact remains that IAH and EWR are both (in my opinion) slightly suboptimal for New York-Houston point-to-point service. And, of course, CO no longer has any service at all at HOU. LGA-HOU is still, I think, the ideal for travel between those two cities and right now there's only one player on that route.

Well, it's no longer true that IAH is suboptimal for many in the Houston area, though. Back in 1970, when IAH was built, much more of the population in the region was closer to the urban core or in the corridor between Houston and Galveston. In the past 35 years, much of the area's growth has occurred to the north and west of the city, and IAH is actually more convenient to a significant wealthy plurality of the region's population. Adding to that is the fact that CO is a relatively well-liked hometown carrier, so passengers are willing to travel a bit farther for the service and for the OnePass miles. HOU was much, much busier in 1985 than it is today.

By the same token, EWR is the most convenient airport for nearly 40% of the population in the Tri-State area, and the business presence in northern New Jersey has mushroomed in the past 20-30 years due to lower costs and taxes.

I'm actually a bit surprised CO didn't keep the HOU-EWR and HOU-CLE flights just to rotate aircraft into the maintenance base there (instead of having to ferry from IAH). HOU-LGA could work on CO due to their frequent flyer bases in both regions, and it works on ATA largely because of Southwest's presence at HOU. I'm more skeptical about jetBlue's chances on HOU-JFK, especially in light of their continued fire sale fares to HOU. They're still offering $79 one way fares from BOS to HOU with a connection at JFK, for example.
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):

Yup, I have no argument with anything you've said. I guess what inspires my fervent belief in LGA-HOU as some sort of holy grail of routes has been my personal experience, both in the general sense of ease of business travel between midtown Manhattan and downtown Houston, and in the specific sense of AA's implementation, which I miss greatly -- great scheduling, nearly 1.000 on upgrades, and the quick in-and-out of that concourse at Hobby. But I can't complain too much -- if they hadn't axed it, I probably never would have discovered CO, or at least not flown them nearly as much as I have this summer. It's probably folly to compare three months on one airline to a couple of decades on another, but, well ... AA could learn a lot from CO.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
ScottB
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting N844AA (Reply 36):
nearly 1.000 on upgrades

If anything, this probably ought to be a red flag that AA wasn't getting significant repeat business traveler demand unless you are/were AAdvantage Platinum/Executive Platinum.

The difference in loads between AA and TZ on the HOU-LGA route is absolutely astounding. AA's highest monthly segment traffic count on HOU-LGA in 2005 was just over 6,500 passengers in both directions combined in May of that year; that works out to a load factor of under 40% in the best month. By contrast, ATA carried over 16,400 in their first partial month (April) of HOU-LGA this year -- over 75% loads.

Two daily flights on AA with fares comparable to CO were never going to be competitive.
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 32):
ISP is a 30 min ride on the Belt for me.

There's no way ISP is more conveinent to Brooklyn than EWR. I can see EWR planes on final approach from Fort Hamilton park, and conversly I can see the Verrazano from Terminal C at EWR. According to Google it's 8.5 miles from Bay Ridge to EWR, from the same place in Bay Ridge to ISP is 48 miles.

It shouldn't take you more than 30 minutes from Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights to EWR. I can drive from Bay 8th street to EWR in less than 30 minutes, there are some days I can drive from Dyker Heights to EWR quicker than I can drive from there to JFK.

The Belt is the worst roadway in the NYC area, followed closely by the Major Deegan and Cross Bronx.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 34):
All flights over 1500 miles MUST use JFK when flying into NYC

Or EWR.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 34):
UAL was flying the route back in the early 80s when the rule was imposed so it was grandfathered in.

I believe both CO and UAL were flying LGA-Denver Statpleton at the time of the perimeter rule taking effect.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ScottB
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
The Belt is the worst roadway in the NYC area, followed closely by the Major Deegan and Cross Bronx.

How quickly we forget the Van Wyck Big grin
 
n844aa
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RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 37):
If anything, this probably ought to be a red flag that AA wasn't getting significant repeat business traveler demand unless you are/were AAdvantage Platinum/Executive Platinum.

I'm Plat, but that's the only route I flew regularly where I had that kind of luck on upgrades. But while it was a favorable route in that respect, I probably received upgrades, oh, 70-80% of the time overall -- so it wasn't leaps and bounds above my normal experience. Basically it was enough for me to fool myself that, hey, maybe this route is doing well enough to stick around.

I had thought the route was doing poorly load-wise, and said so in a similar thread, but an AA employee said that my estimation of 30-40% load factors was way off. And to be fair, many times I'd take that flight on the weekend, so I thought maybe I was seeing an unrepresentative sample. Evidently not. Plus yields must have sucked, because I don't think I ever paid much more than $450 for a R/T ticket.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 4077
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:33 am

"Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
The Belt is the worst roadway in the NYC area, followed closely by the Major Deegan and Cross Bronx.

How quickly we forget the Van Wyck "

May you never forget the BQE guys.

Cross Bronx
BQE
Van Wyck

Deegan isn't too bad. It's just near the ramp getting to the Cross Bronx.

PJ
 
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STT757
Posts: 13268
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NYC-HOU Routes And Who Serves Them

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 42):
Deegan isn't too bad. It's just near the ramp getting to the Cross Bronx.

Last year it took me an hour to get out of the Yankee Stadium parking garage (UGH!), I got there late and had to park on the roof.

There was another time 2-3 years ago it took me 2.5 hours to go from the Tri-Borough Bridge to the George Washington Bridge, due to "minor" construction and Yankee Stadiun Traffic.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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