manni
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Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:37 am

The airline recently issued a request for proposals for 40 planes, and a spokesman said the airline already received a bid from Airbus for 14 firm orders and 26 options. The order would be a mix of A318s, A319s and A320s, all types the airline already operates. The specific number of each aircraft type will not be determined until the order is finalized, the spokesman said. The carrier did not ask for a bid from Boeing because it believes the commonality of an all-Airbus fleet will cut costs and improve efficiency. Mexicana will lease the new planes, rather than buy the aircraft.

The complete article can be found here.

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...ily_story.jsp?id=news/MEX08246.xml
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ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:29 pm

Yaaaaay! Finally disclosed... this will be a full expansion order, its estimated that only 14 A320 will be replaced (older A320 frames) the rest will be for expansion as well as high possible chances that Click might be getting their first A319s.

MX will try to reach 100 frames by 2010!!!

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
orbis
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:39 pm

I still don't understand their widebody/long haul strategy...... if any.
we should live our lives as if we were really alive!!! H.M.
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:48 pm

MX will be selling the older A320's (owned by the airline) and get some cash to offset some of the loses they had in the previous quarters. Leased airplanes will replace them. Interesting move to keep the airline with a young fleet... the only problem will be to reach an agreement with the unions, specially after AM gave away benefits to the same unions. Well, after all, AM is government owned and MX is not, so it is not perfect competition. Good luck MX with negotiations...
 
KLM685
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting Orbis (Reply 2):

I know, such a premium airline with good wishes but no actions. I don't understand as well where is that so called desired International ( besides the US) leadership. Sad Sad

But great new for new airplanes, at least they are doing something!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
atnight
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:36 pm

One thing that surprised me from the article, is that it mentions that MX hasn't ruled out ordering the B777 to replace the old B767s and expand internationally.... so if that's the case, MX isn't thinking in becoming an all-Airbus operator afterall... they probably want a great aircraft, and perhaps the B777 appears as the right choice.... maybe since AM is having a blast with their B777, MX thinks they should compete "fairly" and not lag behind.... with this new information, the idea of seeing a A340 in MX appears more distant each day.... and they do seem to need something bigger and newer than those B767 before 2012, so waiting for the A350 is out of the question.... anyone has more information on this subject?
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
XA744
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:53 pm

Well, the Aviaton Daily article clearly mentions....

" The carrier hasn´t ruled out ordering 777s for its long haul expansion, including service to China as early as 2007 or 2008 "

What can we make of that ?

Umm... I think Mexicana will be coming up with news regarding its long haul operations, as soon as it concludes negotiations with its three unions. The management will play a " hole in one " manoeuver and sell its whole 5 year business plan to the unions as a single package.

Best regards

[Edited 2006-08-25 07:01:50]
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
737-990
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:29 pm

Any news on engine choice? Mexicana operates it's buses with both IAE and CFMs, although it seems as if all new aircraft lately have come with CFM engines. If it's dumping it's older A320s we could see Mexicana standardize with CFM across its fleet.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
juventus
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:42 pm

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 4):
I don't understand as well where is that so called desired International ( besides the US) leadership. Sad Sad

I agree. I tought this would be the announcement where we would finally hear of a couple of wide-body jets. Still excellent news, sometime in the future, every major airport in the US will be serve by Mexicana.
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting Juventus (Reply 8):
Quoting KLM685 (Reply 4):
I don't understand as well where is that so called desired International ( besides the US) leadership. Sad Sad

I agree. I tought this would be the announcement where we would finally hear of a couple of wide-body jets. Still excellent news, sometime in the future, every major airport in the US will be serve by Mexicana.

MX should start working on its Long Range Operating Plan or AM will take the lead in the Mexico-US/Canada routes and will increase domination of Mexico - SouthAmerica routes. Today, AM just confirmed new US and Canada destinations for 2006:

FLL
SAT
AUS
YYZ (confirmed for December)

"New international destinations in diversified markets is AM's bet for growth" Expect an an aggressive growth in South America too!!!

http://www.reforma.com/negocios/articulo/680546/
 
navega
Posts: 467
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:14 am

Rojo,

With this order Mexicana is obviously committed to continue their domination of the US/Mexico market as well
as that of the Canadian as well as Central and South American markets. I am refering to competition with other Mexican Carriers.

Everything I have read confirms that they are the International Airline of Mexico.

I don't think they are very interested in dominating the domestic Mexican Market which is Aeromexico stronghold.

I personally think they are making a very smart move.
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 3):
Good luck MX with negotiations...

This announcement will be good for negociations, as they will be offering the aircraft to pilots union, now let´s see for F/A´s union that are the ones that called the strike on september, but those guys really want a lot of stuff and are not offering anything.

For long haul, fortunately we will see the plane next year hopefully, still some arrangements to be made, also with the problems found on N957PG, and MXB being returned in december, the widebody´s have to arrive soon.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
Kezensky
Posts: 18
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:40 am

From my point of view - the announcement will help to ease off some doubt´s, that many fellow pilots had about the fleet growth plans.
Now let´s hope that the F/A´s also get the point of what´s really at stake...!

Tom
If you´re not having fun, you´re not doing it right!
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:03 am

Good news for Mexicana, glad to see them expanding.

In my opinion Mexico has two great airlines in AeroMexico and Mexicana. I've flown them both plenty of times and like them both. Both have been steadily upgrading and improving their fleets over the last few years which should keep them competitive and allow them to expand even further.

 bigthumbsup 

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
KLM685
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
SAT

My mom and brother were on this flight a month ago and they told me that the flight was packed completly. Which really makes a tough competition in this route with MX.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
"New international destinations in diversified markets is AM's bet for growth" Expect an an aggressive growth in South America too!!!

Excellent! Let's see what are they bringing to us!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:38 am

Nothing on those long rumoured widebody orders. When is it going to happen?
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Orbis (Reply 2):
I still don't understand their widebody/long haul strategy...... if any.

They're keeping this in secret but it should follow the short-medium haul order.

MX is currently facing big problems with Click as their expansion projects are for the moment stopped as they haven't been able to get more Fokkers out there in the second hand market in order to increase the fleet to 25 frams as planned.

They first in hand will have to solve QA's fleet shortage, later it's A320 substition/growth and last but not least, the long haul fleet renewal.

MX is forecasting Asia as the best market for growth. They will land in China and 4 more countries. They will continue it's American expansion along with flights to Brazil, Chile and the reinforcement of EZE. They want to put UIO/GYE back as well as they're now considering Bolivia with the current LB crisis.

Good things to come at MX!!!

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:54 am

Forgot to mention, coming up order will either be B777 or A330/A340.

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:03 am

If Boeing products aren't pleasing MX, look for A330/340 order soon. I guess if they order A340's they will be A346's. They could take the 345's that AC has.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 18):
If Boeing products aren't pleasing MX, look for A330/340 order soon.

MX is pleased with the Boeing products, but the A320's do an excellent job and there is no need for the B737. On the other hand, the B757 is a great aircraft best suiting MX's needs. The problem is that it is old and expensive to get. Also, MX is really happy with the B767. Nevertheless, new aircrafts is what MX is looking for.

From my point of view, MX should get more B767's for South America, and B747's for Asia. The new 40 A320's along with the older ones will keep Canada, USA, Mexico, C.A. and the Caribbean well coverd.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 19):
Also, MX is really happy with the B767. Nevertheless, new aircrafts is what MX is looking for.

I bet Boeing would give them a deal on 787's.

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
Mexicana will lease the new planes, rather than buy the aircraft.

You have ups and downs with that. The ups is rates being kept down if you're in good financial condition. The down sides are number of years the lease is. Who does MX lease their a/c from? Will the 757's go to DL since they are powered by P&W?

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 20):
Who does MX lease their a/c from?

Mexibus
ILFC
GECAS
Orix

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 19):
MX is really happy with the B767

With the cost of the lease of MXB, as they got a great deal, but maintenance is not very happy, also with what the found on N957PG, they are not so happy with the aircraft, also that´s why they cancelled the other 767 to return MXB.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
XA744
Posts: 630
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 19):
From my point of view, MX should get more B767's for South America, and B747's for Asia

Anthony, with due respect, I think the second hand 76s are getting somehow obsolete and pricey to operate due to maintenance issues. The 74s are also quite costly to fly and they are now making way for the T7s.

A pilot friend of mine at Mexicana has been telling me very interesting things about the company´s long haul plans and twin aisle equipment evaluation. As soon as I have more info, I would like to open a thread in order to discuss some issues. However, it is almost certain that MX will be picking up the 777. It is only a matter of a few more weeks in order for them to announce the deal, as they need to secure slots at Boeing real fast. They want new frames for the China adventure.

Best regards

[Edited 2006-08-26 19:56:59]
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:47 am

I am glad to see MX getting more planes. Hopefully they will be able to add new, profitable routes to the U.S. and Latin America. They should also add YYC at least seasonally. And finally an A318-operated MTY-CCS would be awesome.

I hope MX finds a good way to deal with the QA issue. They certainly need to expand their low-cost subsidiary and the lack of F100's is a bad thing. Ghost and Logan, do you think we will see QA become an all-A319 operator in the long-run?

Finally, as for the long-haul fleet, it is interesting MX is considering the 777. I remember not too long ago Logan mentioned that the chance of ordering A332 was back on the table due to the situation with the 767's. I can't wait for the formal announcement.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
thebry
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 20):
I bet Boeing would give them a deal on 787's.

Why would Boeing do a thing like that? With over 400 frames ordered / committed to, production slots are evaporating fast. Boing's in the catbird seat for the time being.

I'm just happy to see another pending large Airbus order (even if just for the A318/19/20)... The Airbus orderbooks have been a little stagnant since Farnborough.
 
socal
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:23 am

Mexicana use to be a good Boeing customer, what happened?
Is Airbus giving them a better deal? I dont think Mexicana has taken
in consideration what the 737NG can do for them.
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orbis
Posts: 199
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RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:30 am

First of all, I must say I celebrate the news but with all due respect to everyone’s opinion and since I am a loyal MX’s fan and FF, I World like to add up some points that lead to a real constructive criticism…..

Why sell aircraft if you can put them out for leasing…. In that way, you keep your actives and keep them giving you Money… (isn’t that what business is all about??)

…. Unless. MX (or Grupo Posadas for that matter) is in financial trouble and needs the cash ASAP to fill up some holes. (but since that posibility was ruled out by some members of this forum in other threads, I guess that is not the case). And we all know what happens when you dig out to fill in…..

Now, given the current new aircraft demand, and delivery dates, my guess is that if Mexicana was “at least” considering Airbus as its widebody fleet provider, then the new order anonuncement should’ve included some “options” to add up or convert an a320 order into an a330, 40,50, 80  Smile …… But there is non. Hence, it seems (against the financial and operacional logics and benefits of an all Airbus fleet) that the unnatural choice would be the B777 but…

If financial talent and vision is what (usually) makes the difference between a State owned company and a Private one, then the Boeing choice makes no sense. (although I would love to see a T7 or a B747 in MX’s colours.)

Thus, IMHO Mexicana’s long haul fleet and network strategy is not been given the importance that it deserves, or it has no revelance at all for Grupo Posadas at least in the medium term.

The sad thing is that some domestic networks are also abandoned or missdirected. Has MX ever considered a b767 or even a B757 solely for the MEX-TIJ, GDL-TIJ route??. AM flies it seasonally and it is always full. cheapest AM fare MEX-TIJ or GDL-TIJ was 600 USD IN Y and 1200 in C last month..... For a 2hrs 40 min flight. and flights are usually oversold and it is one of the few routes where passengers in C are NOT upgrades.

Or……

It’s a well kept secret.

But let’s be honest and logical. The highly competitive airline business is relied on having loyal passengers. In the case of Mexicana (a tradicional “full service” airline -still), loyal “Premium” passengers love to hear about the upcoming, (aircraft, routes, service, IFE’s, FF perks, etc). When we do not hear that, and instead started sampling the flavor of cost cutting measures, uncertainty, network and frequencies reduction, a devaluated frequent flyer program, etc, what we do is… you guessed it right… take our business elsewhere, and even the most loyal ones leave because we don’t even have that “promise” of improvement. So keeping that as a secret is not very smart.

So if there is a secret, it better be a very very good one. Althought, again, using the logical of the simplest answer. My guess is that there is none. (still, hope dies last)

Or, maybe the secret is kept to avoid disclosure of the “winner bidder” for that Mexicana’s magnificent order of 30+ Widebodies that both A and B are waiting for….. (excuse the sarcasm).

About the venture to China, and as good as it sounds, the truth is that for every business to succeed, they most make Money in the present... and in the future. If it is not planned with profitability in mind from the begining, sure it won't be in the future. Therefore, it seems completely absurd to me that given the current conditions of demand between Mexico and Europe, MX is not taking advantage of those markets BEFORE adventuring to China). Why running a marathon if you have not even completed a 10k.

Why not take advange of a direct flight to London or Rome. Even AMS for its excellent and cheap slots and distribution network. (Both AMS and LHR are served "unilaterally" by KLM and BA 4X only) Why leave all the pie to AM and the Foreign airlines. All the sudden everyone turns to Orient. But AM’s has the know-how. While Mexicana still has to learn….oh, and get the Planes.


Regards

FC
we should live our lives as if we were really alive!!! H.M.
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 23):
Finally, as for the long-haul fleet, it is interesting MX is considering the 777. I remember not too long ago Logan mentioned that the chance of ordering A332 was back on the table due to the situation with the 767's. I can't wait for the formal announcement.

Still is, but got delayed because MX is not able to get a got deal for the lease.

For long haul, they are considering the A340, as it sounds to be the more firm candidate to arrive in the next year -hopefully- and not till 2008.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 23):
Ghost and Logan, do you think we will see QA become an all-A319 operator in the long-run?

Still some rumours about that, first they started with the A319, when the Click brand was about to be launched, but now they´re thinking on the A318, also they have to solve some issues with ASPA.

Quoting Socal (Reply 25):
Mexicana use to be a good Boeing customer, what happened?
Is Airbus giving them a better deal? I dont think Mexicana has taken
in consideration what the 737NG can do for them.

It was, but MX also considered the CCQ concept of airbus since MX got the A320 in the fleet, also it fits perfectly the plans of the company to reduce costs.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6211
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:15 am

I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that MX decided to replace its 727 fleet with the A32x because at that point in time the A32x was much better than the Boeing alternatives (the 737-300, 400 and 500).

Regarding the domestic market, I agree MX has neglected many routes but now is probably not the best time to expand domestically. The LCC's are very aggressive and they have managed to gain market share at the expense of MX, AM, 6A and ZE, so it might be unwise to engage in a war at this time. GDL-TIJ and MEX-TIJ seem to be now very well covered, for example.

The 777 possibility sounds very interesting. Is there any chance that Airbus would help MX find some A332's or even some 772ER's for MX as an interim solution until the A350 XWB is flying?... then MX could be one of the very first operators.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
adriaticus
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting N405MX (Reply 27):
when the Click brand was about to be launched, but now they´re thinking on the A318,

The A318 is lease-wise a very expensive aircraft (for being new), to be put to work under QA's colors and cost structure. The older A319s could be, and not in the very near future, but somewhere farther down the road, perhaps.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 28):
Is there any chance that Airbus would help MX find some A332's or even some 772ER's for MX as an interim solution until the A350 XWB is flying?...

I believe Airbus help in finding A332's for MX is feasible. Airbus must do something to boost sales. This MX piece would be extremely valuable at this point in time.

__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Mexicana Close To Airbus Order

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 29):
The A318 is lease-wise a very expensive aircraft (for being new), to be put to work under QA's colors and cost structure. The older A319s could be, and not in the very near future, but somewhere farther down the road, perhaps.

Not at all, as for example, with the pilots will be cheaper to operate, also MX gives service to QA, it will be less inventory for pieces, and also for airport rates they will be able to get a good deal.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 29):
This MX piece would be extremely valuable at this point in time.

For many of us.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 28):
I agree MX has neglected many routes but now is probably not the best time to expand domestically.

They´re leaving that part to QA, as some routes maybe are not profitable for MX, but for QA are great routes.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 28):
The 777 possibility sounds very interesting. Is there any chance that Airbus would help MX find some A332's or even some 772ER's for MX as an interim solution until the A350 XWB is flying?... then MX could be one of the very first operators.

Time ago, heard something about the A350, MX can be evaluating or is evaluating the posibility of the A350, also they can have a good deal with airbus like Air Europa.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....