worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:35 am

Based on a recent analysis of OAG data based on July 2006 schedules, DL's transatlantic hub at ATL is the largest gateway from the US across the Atlantic based on ASMs.

ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL
 
atlflyer
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:53 am

Really...good to hear!
 
MarkATL
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:07 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 am

I would assume this means single carrier?
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:09 am

Is this the largest transatlantic gateway for just US airlines, or all airlines combined? Given the transatlantic presence at JFK with both DL and AA and all of the other international airlines combined, surely I would think New York would still be the largest US transatlantic gateway. Am I wrong?
 
B752OS
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):
Is this the largest transatlantic gateway for just US airlines, or all airlines combined? Given the transatlantic presence at JFK with both DL and AA and all of the other international airlines combined, surely I would think New York would still be the largest US transatlantic gateway. Am I wrong?

Not to mention the large amount of O&D passengers that JFK has when compared to ATL.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:05 am

This is the largest single carrier transatlantic operation at a single airport measured by ASMs.

Who would have thought that a city that had its first transatlantic service just 27 years ago would now be home to the nation's largest transatlantic gateway.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):

Who would have thought that a city that had its first transatlantic service just 27 years ago would now be home to the nation's largest transatlantic gateway.

It's not. It is home to the largest single trans-Atlantic gateway operation on the US from one airline.
a.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
This is the largest single carrier transatlantic operation at a single airport measured by ASMs.

Cool. So they join the ranks of:
Largest single carrier US-South American/Caribbean operation at a single airport: AA at MIA
Largest single carrier US-Transpacific operation at a single airport:
UA at SFO

If DL keeps developing JFK they might steal the honor away from themselves from ATL to JFK....
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:32 pm

Not to mention that is the second largest airport in terms of destinations served (non-stop). Checked OAG and they were only beaten by FRA. A whopping 247 destinations during the high peaks of the year.

[Edited 2006-08-26 10:35:58]
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):

Who would have thought that a city that had its first transatlantic service just 27 years ago would now be home to the nation's largest transatlantic gateway.


It's not. It is home to the largest single trans-Atlantic gateway operation on the US from one airline.

Thats why Worldtraveler refered to it in the statement prior to the one you chose as, "this is by a single carrier...in the nation's largest transatlantic gateway."

[Edited 2006-08-26 10:38:12]
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 8):
Not to mention that is the second largest airport in terms of destinations served (non-stop). Checked OAG and they were only beaten by FRA. A whopping 247 destinations during the high peaks of the year.

It is also the 2nd largest international operation at a US airport by a single airline.

Jeremy
 
style
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Based on a recent analysis of OAG data based on July 2006 schedules, DL's transatlantic hub at ATL is the largest gateway from the US across the Atlantic based on ASMs.

ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL

What seems to be your obsession? Is it all about DL being bigger than CO across the pond, or from JFK? Every discussion you post seems to always have a topic where you are trying to make DL as the "premiere" carrier compared to CO.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Style (Reply 11):

What seems to be your obsession? Is it all about DL being bigger than CO across the pond, or from JFK? Every discussion you post seems to always have a topic where you are trying to make DL as the "premiere" carrier compared to CO.

CO was never mentioned in the thread until you brought them up. Now it WILL turn into a competition.

Jeremy
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:38 am

The post is a statement of fact with no comparisons made.
 
united319
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:07 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:09 am

why are we even worrying about whether DL and CO are bigger than eachother? They're under the same alliance, no need to get all upset over this.
It's Time To Fly
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Style (Reply 11):
What seems to be your obsession? Is it all about DL being bigger than CO across the pond, or from JFK? Every discussion you post seems to always have a topic where you are trying to make DL as the "premiere" carrier compared to CO.

World Traveler is the biggest Delta Cheerleader on this board. He's never mentioned CO in this thread.
 
deputydawghere
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:45 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Style (Reply 11):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Based on a recent analysis of OAG data based on July 2006 schedules, DL's transatlantic hub at ATL is the largest gateway from the US across the Atlantic based on ASMs.

ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL

What seems to be your obsession? Is it all about DL being bigger than CO across the pond, or from JFK? Every discussion you post seems to always have a topic where you are trying to make DL as the "premiere" carrier compared to CO.

Thank you.
N/A
 
deltaguy767
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 10):

It is also the 2nd largest international operation at a US airport by a single airline.
Jeremy

Wow, who beat DL at ATL?  confused 

Cheers from BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 17):
Wow, who beat DL at ATL? confused

My guess is American at Miami, but I could be wrong.
 
jamesjoyce
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Based on a recent analysis of OAG data based on July 2006 schedules, DL's transatlantic hub at ATL is the largest gateway from the US across the Atlantic based on ASMs.

Now if they only could match that honour with decent transatlantic service to their passengers as well, then it would be even better.

I've taken a number of roundtrips BRU-JFK and BRU-ATL the past months and their mealservice is about the worst I've even been given. Overcooked rice with a half-cooked half carrot and 2 strips of chicken is not a meal. Neither is completely dried-out penne-pasta with pesto-sauce resembling as if it had been prepared a day before and flown in on the same plane.

Besides, still showing "Narnia" as an in-flight movie is pretty ridiculous, even though I like it.

Also, the DL earphones must be about the worst of any airline.

Their price is the best however, which is what keeps me there.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 18):
My guess is American at Miami, but I could be wrong.

I would imagine AA in Miami is the largest single-US airline international operation at a single airport, given the number of destinations, frequencies and aircraft. DL in ATL is definitely number two, but the largest across the Atlantic.

Very interesting. This is probably another topic for another thread, but comparing DL in ATL (transatlantic), AA in MIA (Carib/Latin America) and UA in SFO (Transpacific) I wonder which international operation is the most profitable?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 20):
I would imagine AA in Miami is the largest single-US airline international operation at a single airport, given the number of destinations, frequencies and aircraft.

It is.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 20):

Very interesting. This is probably another topic for another thread, but comparing DL in ATL (transatlantic), AA in MIA (Carib/Latin America) and UA in SFO (Transpacific) I wonder which international operation is the most profitable?

I'd be willing to bet MIA, simply because there is so little compietition to Latin America.
a.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:15 pm

Quoting Style (Reply 11):
What seems to be your obsession? Is it all about DL being bigger than CO across the pond, or from JFK? Every discussion you post seems to always have a topic where you are trying to make DL as the "premiere" carrier compared to CO.



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
CO was never mentioned in the thread until you brought them up. Now it WILL turn into a competition.

Exactly. Nothing was even mentioned of CO in the thread until Style brought it up. And just what if WorldTraveler does think DL is the premier carrier as compared to CO? Thats his opinion, just as you can have your opinion. There would be no right or wrong answer. I can't believe the number of people who want to argue DL and CO. I don't see the same number of people arguing NW and UA, or AA and US, or...

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 19):
I've taken a number of roundtrips BRU-JFK and BRU-ATL the past months and their mealservice is about the worst I've even been given. Overcooked rice with a half-cooked half carrot and 2 strips of chicken is not a meal. Neither is completely dried-out penne-pasta with pesto-sauce resembling as if it had been prepared a day before and flown in on the same plane.

Well, when I take into account that airline food has to be prepared and then held until merely just reheated onboard the airplane, with limited resources, I really can't say I've had a bad inflight meal. Being that you fly often from BRU, your beef would be with the BRU catering services and kitchens, IMO.

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 19):
Their price is the best however, which is what keeps me there.

But then again, your also staying for the lowest price? I've always been a firm believer in "you get what you pay for," so if the customer is wanting to settle for a lower price, they should not expect superior service and amenities. Now, if you are willing to pay the BusinessElite fare, you will get much more with your entree and much more amenities. It all comes with a price. Remember, you and your market drive the ticket prices, not Delta.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:24 am

Seriously why are we arguing who is better? We all know it is Delta so let's just calm down.  devil 
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
deltaguy767
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 20):
I would imagine AA in Miami is the largest single-US airline international operation at a single airport, given the number of destinations, frequencies and aircraft. DL in ATL is definitely number two, but the largest across the Atlantic.

Hey GSFO,
I'm curious as to what the numbers are as to you reaching that conclusion. Lately I've heard that ATL is by far the largest hub operation by a single airline. I am probably wrong, but I just want to know the actual numbers if they exist or if we are all just spewing conjecture.

Cheers from BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 25):
Hey GSFO,
I'm curious as to what the numbers are as to you reaching that conclusion. Lately I've heard that ATL is by far the largest hub operation by a single airline. I am probably wrong, but I just want to know the actual numbers if they exist or if we are all just spewing conjecture.

ATL/DL is the largest hub operation by a single airline.

MIA/AA is the largest international hub operation by a single airline in the US. It has been like that for over a decade.

http://hospitality-1st.com/PressNews/BTS-081406.html
a.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 25):
Hey GSFO,
I'm curious as to what the numbers are as to you reaching that conclusion. Lately I've heard that ATL is by far the largest hub operation by a single airline. I am probably wrong, but I just want to know the actual numbers if they exist or if we are all just spewing conjecture.

DeltaGuy, Mark beat me to it:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
ATL/DL is the largest hub operation by a single airline.
MIA/AA is the largest international hub operation by a single airline in the US. It has been like that for over a decade.

No question, DL/ATL is the largest single airline hub. However comparing only international operation to international operation, AA/MIA is larger.
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:27 am

I ran an analysis of the two airlines' respective international hubs -- Delta at Atlanta and American at Miami. I ran an analysis of all of their international flying for this week (25Aug-1Sep 2006). The results --

American has just over 23% more international seats per week from Miami to foreign markets than Delta has from Atlanta. Not suprisingly, 96% of American's Miami seats are to Latin America, with the remaining 4% being made up of the airline's 22 weekly flights to Europe (LHR/CDG/MAD). Delta's international operation from Atlanta is much more diversified. 55.5% of its international seats are directed to Latin America, 42.7% to Europe, and the remaining 1.8% is made up of their single daily ATL-Tokyo run.

American/Miami

Total Seats: 126,453
Latin America: 121,427
Europe: 5,026
Largest Market: Santo Domingo (6,370 seats/week)

Delta/Atlanta

Total Seats: 102,642
Latin America: 56,958
Europe: 43,808
Asia (Tokyo): 1876
Largest Market: London LGW (5,369 seats/week)
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:21 am

Out of curiosity, how did you account for ATL-TLV?
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
deltaguy767
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:37 am

Thanks guys for answering my questions. Perhaps when DL can secure more a/c we could see an increase in the # of seats at ATL if DL is committed to the international expansion throughout the hub network.

Cheers from BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 29):
Out of curiosity, how did you account for ATL-TLV

TLV and SVO should be Europe seats.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 29):
Out of curiosity, how did you account for ATL-TLV?

I included it as part of Europe. Yes, yes, while I know that technically it is Asia, the route is operated far more like a European market than an Asian one. That route comprises 1,876 weekly seats, or roughly 4.3% of Delta's seats to Europe from Atlanta, and 1.8% of total international seats from Atlanta.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:30 pm

Seats don't tell the whole story here. While AA has more daily seats, Delta has significantly more ASMs at ATL than American has at MIA. This is a reflection of the relative length of haul between the two operations. Delta's ATL network is significantly more far-flung and diverse than the AA operation at MIA. There is nothing in the outlook that that suggests that ATL's size advantage won't continue to grow.

January 2006 OAG Schedule Data
Carrier/Hub - Destinations - Daily Seats - Daily Flights - Daily ASM's (000)
Delta at Atlanta - 73 - 430,545 - 89 - 38,210
American at Miami- 53 - 528,978 - 104 - 27,495
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 33):
Seats don't tell the whole story here. While AA has more daily seats, Delta has significantly more ASMs at ATL than American has at MIA.

IMO, seats tell a much more important story, though. Indeed, Delta has about 2/3 more international ASMs from Atlanta that American has from Miami (306M/week vs 188M/week). However, I personally think that the number of passengers carried is a far more realistic reflection of a market's size (or an airline's size in that market) than the distance of the flights.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 34):
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 33):
Seats don't tell the whole story here. While AA has more daily seats, Delta has significantly more ASMs at ATL than American has at MIA.

IMO, seats tell a much more important story, though. Indeed, Delta has about 2/3 more international ASMs from Atlanta that American has from Miami (306M/week vs 188M/week). However, I personally think that the number of passengers carried is a far more realistic reflection of a market's size (or an airline's size in that market) than the distance of the flights.

All that is great, but ASM's have a much more direct correlation with revenue. Its like saying Southwest is the world's 2nd largest airline because it carried 88M passengers in 2005. Well, they ranked 11th in RPM's, and 16th in Revenue.

Obviously MIA is a larger O&D market to Latin America and the Caribbean. Other than that, DL in ATL outpaces AA in MIA in every imaginable context.

The scary thing is, DL is growing RAPIDLY in ATL. MIA has not seen the same sort of growth.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 34):
However, I personally think that the number of passengers carried is a far more realistic reflection of a market's size (or an airline's size in that market) than the distance of the flights.

Interestingly, not a carrier out there "really" cares about market share in terms of passengers. Revenue Share is far more important. The carrier share of travel dollars spent in a market are the best indication of an airline's size in a market.

Southwest carries a lot of passengers because it has cheap fares. It is all supply and demand. AA carries more passengers to international markets from MIA because most of its destinations are closer. Because of that proximity, fares are lower and traffic levels are higher. But Delta generates significantly more revenue for each of its passenger than AA does, due to the nature of the network.

The implication that AA has a bigger international impact in MIA than Delta has in ATL is silly.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 35):
The scary thing is, DL is growing RAPIDLY in ATL. MIA has not seen the same sort of growth.

Internationally, yes. As a whole, no. Despite all the international growth, DL's total traffic through ATL was down 6.6% for June 06 versus June 05.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 37):
Internationally, yes. As a whole, no. Despite all the international growth, DL's total traffic through ATL was down 6.6% for June 06 versus June 05.

I was referring to international, of course. However, I do think that domestic traffic will turn upwards again over the next year as 757's from Song return to the mainline fleet. Your home market of PNS is a perfect example .
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:35 am

Based on schedules data for Dec. 06, AA from MIA serves only one more market in the Caribbean/Latin/S. America regions than DL does from ATL. On a systemwide basis, DL is supposed to bypass AA in number of cities served in Mexico with DL’s expansion from LAX this winter. AA clearly has more frequencies but DL has made itself a very credible player to Latin America.

In terms of total peak day flights, DL at ATL has 971, AA at DFW has 787; CO at IAH has 745; UA at ORD has 646; and NW at DTW has 496.

In terms of destinations served, DL at ATL has 242; CO at IAH has 183; AA at DFW has 159; CO at EWR has 153; and NW at MSP has 146.

When you consider that ATL is the only hub that links such a huge number of Latin and European destinations, ATL is truly becoming the most well-rounded global gateway. Now they just need a few more destinations in Africa, a handful in Asia, and add Sydney to the top for good luck and they are set!
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 39):
When you consider that ATL is the only hub that links such a huge number of Latin and European destinations, ATL is truly becoming the most well-rounded global gateway. Now they just need a few more destinations in Africa, a handful in Asia, and add Sydney to the top for good luck and they are set!

Seems to be a pretty meaningless distinction to me when AA is much more diverse in terms of its routes. DL has what, 2-3 different gateways to Europe? AA has 6, 7 if you include RDU. Of course DL is going to have larger European operations at ATL than AA is at DFW, DL has less than half as many European gateways as AA does. In effect, DL is much more concentrated than AA is.

Pax numbers are fine and well, but they don't mean squat if you're not making a profit off of them.
PHX based
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 39):
When you consider that ATL is the only hub that links such a huge number of Latin and European destinations, ATL is truly becoming the most well-rounded global gateway. Now they just need a few more destinations in Africa, a handful in Asia, and add Sydney to the top for good luck and they are set!

Now if they could just figure out how to get a plane to Antarctica, they would be the first all seven continents.  Smile
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 40):
Seems to be a pretty meaningless distinction to me when AA is much more diverse in terms of its routes. DL has what, 2-3 different gateways to Europe? AA has 6, 7 if you include RDU. Of course DL is going to have larger European operations at ATL than AA is at DFW, DL has less than half as many European gateways as AA does. In effect, DL is much more concentrated than AA is.

Pax numbers are fine and well, but they don't mean squat if you're not making a profit off of them.

Same nonesense that is continually spoken here. DL IS making a profit on its international routes so your point is void. DL currently has 3 Transatlantic gateways: ATL, JFK, and CVG. Look for SLC to become one next year and possibly BOS. And DL is not more concentrated to Europe than AA. DL has TWO large European gateways: ATL and JFK, which each have around 20 cities served, with CVG having service to 5 cities, 3 year round. AA has almost all of theirs at ORD, with JFK having CDG, LHR, BRU, and ZRH, DFW has LGW, FRA, CDG, and ZRH, with RDU, LAX, MIA, and BOS only having 1-3 cities served.

Jeremy
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 42):
And DL is not more concentrated to Europe than AA. DL has TWO large European gateways: ATL and JFK, which each have around 20 cities served, with CVG having service to 5 cities, 3 year round. AA has almost all of theirs at ORD, with JFK having CDG, LHR, BRU, and ZRH, DFW has LGW, FRA, CDG, and ZRH, with RDU, LAX, MIA, and BOS only having 1-3 cities served.

Am I hearing an echo here? Ok, we'll do this slow. Which airline do you think has more concentrated European operations: the airline with two large European gateways(by your own admission) and a much smaller hublet, or the airline with European operations from seven cities, none of which rival the size of the other airline's two large hubs?

The DL fanboy nonsense is getting pretty thick in this thread.....
PHX based
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 43):
Am I hearing an echo here? Ok, we'll do this slow. Which airline do you think has more concentrated European operations: the airline with two large European gateways(by your own admission) and a much smaller hublet, or the airline with European operations from seven cities, none of which rival the size of the other airline's two large hubs?

The DL fanboy nonsense is getting pretty thick in this thread.....

This topic is debatable. While you may think an airline with 1-2 destinations spread out at a few cities and 1 big hub with lots of cities is less concentrated, I venture to say that having 2 large operations and 1 sizable operation is just as spread out, but in a different way. DL overall is larger to Europe than AA is and I was simply responding to your meaningless post claiming that DL's service to Europe is somehow invalid or unsubstantial because AA has service to Europe from more US cities, and this is simply untrue.

It's a similar argument with NW vs. UA to Asia. UA is larger over the Pacific, but NW has more gateways: MSP, DTW, LAX, SFO, PDX, and SEA. UA has SEA, SFO, LAX, ORD, JFK (ending) and soon IAD. Who cares who's more concentrated, UA is bigger over the Pacific, period.

Jeremy
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:27 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 40):
Seems to be a pretty meaningless distinction to me when AA is much more diverse in terms of its routes.

You're claiming that AA is more diverse to Europe?  confused  Not sure how you get that. According to AA's route map, they only serve 11 European cities (and Rome is seasonal). DL serves 26.

While AA's service is spread out from a couple more U.S. gateways, the difference is that you can get to any of DL's 26 European cities from LAX, DFW, MIA, RDU, ORD, JFK, or BOS (as well as hundreds of other cities), and in some cases nonstop from JFK, with one-stop service all on DL metal. The reverse isn't true on AA; you have to get to Europe and then get an interline or alliance partner connection.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 40):

Pax numbers are fine and well, but they don't mean squat if you're not making a profit off of them.

Guess you must have missed the thread on DL's July results; they're profitable again even after all one-time costs  bigthumbsup 
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 45):
While AA's service is spread out from a couple more U.S. gateways, the difference is that you can get to any of DL's 26 European cities from LAX, DFW, MIA, RDU, ORD, JFK, or BOS (as well as hundreds of other cities), and in some cases nonstop from JFK, with one-stop service all on DL metal. The reverse isn't true on AA; you have to get to Europe and then get an interline or alliance partner connection.

It's reflective of two divergent market strategies. American has focused on being a strong competitor in fewer European markets, and reducing direct operating costs by putting customers on its oneworld and codeshare partners to get them to smaller European cities. Delta (and Continental) are focused on flying to dozens of cities across Europe and generating a higher unit revenue by overflying traditional hubs and plugging smaller European cities into their big U.S. connecting hubs.

From next month's Air Transport World:

Discussing the carrier's strategy in Europe, [AA VP Henry Joyner] says the "most efficient" way to grow is via the hubs of its oneworld partners such as British Airways, Iberia and Finnair. There will be some "point-to-points," such as seasonal service from Boston to Shannon and Manchester, but by and large the main opportunities come from codesharing beyond London, Madrid and Helsinki, for example. Executive VP-Marketing Dan Garton says revenues from oneworld codeshares are up 20% year-over-year and represent AA's fastest-growing stream of passenger revenues. He says he "can't wait" until Japan Airlines becomes a member.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 40):
In effect, DL is much more concentrated than AA is.

First, you all miss my point. ATL for DL is more GLOBAL hub, not DL as a whole. No other hub has such strong positions to 2 regions of the world.

Second, if you look at the other side of the Atlantic, AA is far more concentrated since the vast majority of its revenue and flights involves the UK, and more specifically, LHR.

AA and DL have two very different European strategies and it is not hard to see why AA has such a large London operation. What is less clear is why AA has not been successful in diversifying its route system in continental Europe. DL serves dozens of cities and yet is the dominant US airline in most of them.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 47):
What is less clear is why AA has not been successful in diversifying its route system in continental Europe.

I don't see how that has not been clear. AA doesn't really have much interest in diversifying their European network, as Commavia's quote said above. AA and DL are taking two entirely different strageties, with AA's being the less riskier of the two. And, as far as we can tell, both are working. So who cares?
a.
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:27 pm

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 46):
It's reflective of two divergent market strategies.

 checkmark 

No disagreement there. AA obviously wants to focus its EU service on O&D to its primary markets, get more of the U.S. population nonstop to those top few markets, and let its alliance partners worry about getting people around Europe. DL wants to keep its passengers on its own metal and get them across the Atlantic nonstop, but to do so has to focus its flights out of two major gateways that can collect U.S. connecting traffic.

I would argue that DL's European strategy is the more diverse one, because it is less reliant on any given city pair(s) and gets more people from more North American cities to more European destinations on DL equipment, with the tradeoff that fewer people are served nonstop. That doesn't mean AA is "wrong" or has a worse strategy, just a more directly targeted one.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL At ATL : USA's Largest Tatl Gateway

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 48):
AA doesn't really have much interest in diversifying their European network, as Commavia's quote said above

Really? AA has attempted service to a number of cities outside on London and has met with an aweful lot of failure. If AA doesn't want to diversify its route network, it's apparently a fairly new decision. BOSCDG is the latest casualty among a number of continental Europe failures. My question remains: why can't AA make continental Europe other than the biggest gateways work?

Who is online