pwm2txlhopper
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Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:47 pm

I'm usually pretty good figuring things out, but this one has me stumped. Right now on Flightaware at 02:25 EST, I'm tracking a flight with the with the radar ID TKS30. It's showing it as a DC-10 operated by "Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, Tanker (Canada) ". It departed out of McGuire AFB, flew north and has been flying in a holding pattern off the coast of Southern Maine for close to an hour now. Flight plan shows it returning to McGuire in an hour.... What is this flight?!? A Forest Fire Tanker?!?

What makes this flight even more bizarre is that President Bush is visiting Kennebunkport, Maine this weekend and this flight has been circling just a few miles south of the Bush family residence on Walker's Point. That airspace is restricted when the President is at the residence.

Can anybody tell me what the heck this flight is? And why would a civilian water-bomber be flying out of McGuire AFB and circling in the immediate vicinity of the Bush Family compound in Maine tonight? Perhaps this should be in Military? However, it's listing a civialian aircraft? What kind of operation is this? Help!

Flight Details...

Registered: Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre "Tanker" (Canada)

Aircraft t McDonnell Douglas DC-10 (tri-jet) (H/DC10/Q)
Origin t Mc Guire AFB (KWRI)
Destination t Mc Guire AFB (KWRI)
Route t PTPL4 MANTA V139 HTO J55 BOS ENE131051
D3+35 ENE131051 BOS J55 MANTA CYN
Date t Saturday, Aug 26, 2006
Duration t 2 hours 31 minutes

Departure:12:21AM EDT
Arrival: 02:52AM EDT
Speed: 306 kts
Altitude: 21000 feet




[Edited 2006-08-26 08:49:27]

[Edited 2006-08-26 08:50:28]

[Edited 2006-08-26 08:51:51]

[Edited 2006-08-26 09:00:59]

[Edited 2006-08-26 09:02:19]
 
tys777
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Thread starter):
Registered: Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre "Tanker" (Canada)

well, for one thing it isn't a civil craft, due to the fact of who it is registered to.

Maybe they are just doing a test run?
But then, Why are they doing the run in the US??
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:09 pm

More like why are they doing it at 3am in the morning, circling directly over the Bush residence? A water-bomber just doesn't make sense.

Quoting Tys777 (Reply 1):
But then, Why are they doing the run in the US??
 
tys777
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:17 pm

if you look back at flight aware, it was already supposed to have been back but is now only halfway through its flight, so no matter what is going on, someone decided to double the length of this flight.


It also doesnt appear to be above the bush residence, just off the coast, I doubt that really makes much of a difference though
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McG

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting Tys777 (Reply 3):
also doesnt appear to be above the bush residence, just off the coast, I doubt that really makes much of a difference though

The Bush residence is located on the cove that is directly under the northeast corner of where this flight is circling. On a side note, there have been jets orbiting Southern Maine 24hrs a day since the President arrived yesterday morning. They aren't showing up on the flight trackers, but I'm watching these jets flying over my house every ten minutes in a clockwise direction at high altitude, FL250+. Since they aren't showing up on the flight trackers, they can only be military aircraft. I'm presuming some sort of fighter aircraft patrolling the airspace within a 50 or 100 mile radius of the Bush residence. I didn't know that the airspace was patrolled above the family compound when Bush is in town, but what else could this be? And why are they using a fire-bomber?!?

[Edited 2006-08-26 09:35:00]
 
tys777
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:39 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 4):
I didn't know that the airspace was patrolled above the family compound when Bush is in town

It's possible that with all of the threats on the planes recently maybe someone mentioned that Bush was a target and they beefed up the patrols to be safe.

But that still leaves us with the question of Why a tanker??
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:48 pm

Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:54 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):


I had thought of that, however military flights are not displayed on commercial flight trackers such as Flightaware.com. It makes sense that it would be a re-fueling tanker if there are fighters patrolling the airspace around the Bush residence, but why would a military aircraft be displayed on a civil flight tracker? And how would that be connected to
"Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre"

[Edited 2006-08-26 10:56:57]
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:58 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

 checkmark 

PotUs is at the Maine White House . . . that's the tanker for his CAP.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:04 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
that's the tanker for his CAP.


Excuse my ignorance, but what does CAP stand for?

[Edited 2006-08-26 11:04:54]
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 9):
Excuse my ignorance, but what does CAP stand for?

Combat Air Patrol. In that area it could be MAANG F-15s out of Otis ANGB, MA, or VTANG F-16s operating out of BGR.
 
elcableguy77
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:20 pm

I have occasionally seen military flights tracked on FlightAware, though it is a rarity. Every once in a while, I'll see an F/A-18 headed to or from Oceana NAS show up there.

It's very possible that a USAF KC-10 from McGuire could be using the same callsign as the tankers from Canada do, that way ATC knows what sort of aircraft is flying around out there so as to account for wake turbulence and things like that.
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chrisnh
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McG

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:47 pm

I'd buy into the aerial refueling angle. Seems plausible, because KC-10s are based down at McGuire. This wouldn't be the first time that FlightAware mis-identified a flight. But the type of plane and the kind of circular,repeating route leads one to believe that it's a refueling tanker. The Canadian thing is a mistake, IMO.

My folks live on Goose Rocks Beach, which is (as the crow flies) about 60 seconds by air north of Walker's Point. Stories abound. My mom and dad live on a private end of a nice beach up there, and one afternoon my mom saw a car pull up and stop in front of their house. Two guys got out and they were getting ready to walk onto the beach. My mom and dad are always on the watch for people and cars that 'shouldn't be there,' so my mom went over to the men and said, in a kind voice, 'I'm sorry...this is a private road. You can't park here,'

One of the men, without missing a beat, unbuttoned his coat and flashed a SS badge. 'Oh, I think we can,' he replied. 'PotUS' was fishing for Blues in front of the house and these two were with binoculars to keep an eye out for him.

Yesterday and (thus far) today it's overcast down here in southern NH. I suspect that if it is up there as well, any neat orbiting planes can only be heard, not seen. I'll check with my dad, though. I already sent him the link to this thread.

Chris in NH
 
stirling
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:11 pm

Taken from the CIFFC website:

Quote:
The national air tanker fleet consists of 13 Canadair CL-215s which are operated by the provinces on behalf of the country as a whole. These aircraft are among the the 29 CL-215s purchased by six provinces and the federal government under a Cooperative Supply Agreement signed in the mid-1980s. Now over fifty CL-215/415 aircraft along with numerous land-based air tankers operate in Canada. The CL215/415 is the number one resource request and has contributed to the overall fire suppression capability in initial attack and ground support.

No mention of having any DC/KC-10s in the fleet.

http://www.ciffc.ca/cif.shtml
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Cadet57
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

They use 135's thou

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
that's the tanker for his CAP.

Yea, but a Canadian one?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 14):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

They use 135's thou

True, The NHANG flys KC-135Rs out of PSM, but the refueling taskingings could be given to any USAF/ANG/USAFR tanker unit. There are KC-10As based at WRI.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 14):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

They use 135's thou

True, The NHANG flys KC-135Rs out of PSM, but the refueling taskings could be given to any USAF/ANG/USAFR tanker unit. There are KC-10As based at WRI.
 
Woosie
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Thread starter):
It's showing it as a DC-10 operated by "Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, Tanker (Canada) ". It departed out of McGuire AFB, flew north and has been flying in a holding pattern off the coast of Southern Maine for close to an hour now. Flight plan shows it returning to McGuire in an hour.... What is this flight?!? A Forest Fire Tanker?!?

Yup, it's a fire retardant/water drop airplane.

How do I know? I sit & work near the guy who helped write the Maintenance Planning Documents for that airplane.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting Woosie (Reply 17):
Yup, it's a fire retardant/water drop airplane.

How do I know? I sit & work near the guy who helped write the Maintenance Planning Documents for that airplane.

So was this simply a training mission for the DC-10 water tanker? I would be surprized this was allowed in the area off the Maine and New Hampshire coast with President Bush at Walkers Point.
 
onetogo
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

You are correct, sir. This is a refueling operation.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
but the refueling taskings could be given to any USAF/ANG/USAFR tanker unit. There are KC-10As based at WRI.

Ohhhhh ok. Thanks for clearing that up.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:38 pm

Maybe they are secretly planning to dump water on Bush, to prove once and for all he is washed up.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:03 pm

The Canadian registration is either a flightaware snafu, or the US military using a foreign civilian call sign to disguise itself, both of which have happened, although most uses of a "decoy" call signs seem to have occured on CIA rendition flights to/from foreign countries.
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chrisnh
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21):
Maybe they are secretly planning to dump water on Bush, to prove once and for all he is washed up.

News item: "In the same way that the Wicked Witch of the West was 'melted' by Dorothy, a Canadian DC-10 water tanker sent Cindy Sheehan to the Land of Oz with one well-placed water dump. Another wicked witch bites the dust. This is PMSNBC reporting."

Chris in NH
 
wannabe
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:55 pm

It's those Canadian terrorists planning a Molsen Drop on Potus at his dad's place. The reason for the extended orbit prior to the drop is to allow the foam to settle. Once it does....Look Out!!!!
 
HPRamper
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Wannabe (Reply 24):
It's those Canadian terrorists planning a Molsen Drop on Potus at his dad's place. The reason for the extended orbit prior to the drop is to allow the foam to settle. Once it does....Look Out!!!!

 rotfl 
 
Theiler
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:52 am

I'll bet the call sign was inadvertantly mis-coded in the FAA system... The tankers up here doing AR for the CAP were using "TankerXX" call-signs. Perhaps instead of coding TKR30 or something, they used "TKS", which just happens to the be the identifier for someone else.
 
swaopsusafatc
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:11 am

Sounds like Base ops entered the wrong callsign for the aircraft. This can happen once in a while. I work at McGuire Rapcon and have never seen this callsign before but have seen that f/p.
 
bond007
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RE: Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Theiler (Reply 26):
I'll bet the call sign was inadvertantly mis-coded in the FAA system... The tankers up here doing AR for the CAP were using "TankerXX" call-signs. Perhaps instead of coding TKR30 or something, they used "TKS", which just happens to the be the identifier for someone else.



Quoting SWAOPSusafATC (Reply 27):
Sounds like Base ops entered the wrong callsign for the aircraft. This can happen once in a while. I work at McGuire Rapcon and have never seen this callsign before but have seen that f/p.

Yes, this is what happened. They did file as TKR30, but shouldn't have done!
The FAA code for airline/callsign TKR is in fact "CANADIAN INTERAGENCY FOREST FIRE CENTRE" ....it was no doubt Tanker 30, but shouldn't have been filed as TKR. Since TKR is a valid FAA code, it showed up on the trackers....and most certainly shouldn't have done!!


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