B742
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Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:11 am

Air France will upgrade its current 10 weekly flights between CDG and JNB to 12x weekly. Two additional weekly flights will be added from October 28th.

The Paris based airline will also change its equipment on the route. The route will change to Daily 777-300ER and 5x weekly A340-300  

SAA currently operates a daily A340-200 service from JNB  


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Will be a shame to see the AF 744's go from JNB  

Will we ever see direct CPT-CDG links in the near future from AF?

Are any new AF long haul routes in the vision for the near future?

Rob!   

[Edited 2006-08-26 18:18:09]
 
B742
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:17 am

British Airways will also introduce a 2nd Daily LHR-CPT flight during the Southern Summer. (European Winter)

Flights will operate from October round to March and will be operated by the four class 747-400!

SAA will continue to operate a Daily A340-600 on the CPT-LHR route  Smile

Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?


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Rob!  wave 
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
The Paris based airline will also change its equipment on the route. The route will change to Daily 777-300ER and 5x weekly A340-300

The equipment change from B744 to B77W is necessary because Air France wants to keep offering First Class on the route. The last two non-reconfigured B744s, with 13 F seats, and which are now mostly deployed on the JNB route, will soon be converted to freighters, so the only option for AF to retain L'Espace Premiere to JNB is by changing the route to a triple seven, the only remaining aircraft in the fleet with an F-cabin.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Will we ever see direct CPT-CDG links in the near future from AF?

Not for the time being. KLM is taking care of CPT with great success. The airline operates a daily AMS-CPT nonstop with B772ER and the schedule is currently reduced to four weekly in summer between April and July and five weekly between August and October.

However, some changes are being planned to the AMS-CPT route, which might see the B744 full pax version deployed daily in winter. Also, KLM plans to operate the CPT service daily next summer, making it a year round daily service. Summer services would be operated with the B772ER.

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Are any new AF long haul routes in the vision for the near future?

As far as I know, Air France is looking at an additional destination in North America as well as one more destination in Brasil. Also, Air France will start thrice weekly to Chennai (MAA) next winter, and flights to Kuala Lumpur are at least being studied.
 
DernierVirage
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The equipment change from B744 to B77W is necessary because Air France wants to keep offering First Class on the route.

It is interesting that the 5 x weekly flight to JNB is a 343, which only has J and Y class.

This is like the current situation to Hong Kong, where the daily flight (773) has 3 classes, but the extra 3 x weekly flight is on the A332, only J and Y. However, I believe that the HKG flights will all be changes later this year to new style 772s, with 3 classes.

I in fact prefer to always have the same cabins on all flights to the same destination, maybe this will also become the case for JNB.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting DernierVirage (Reply 4):
It is interesting that the 5 x weekly flight to JNB is a 343, which only has J and Y class.

There are other stations which receive both 2-class and 3-class aircraft: YUL, JFK, GRU, HKG, NRT, LFW and maybe some others. It is likely that there is no demand for twice daily F cabins at JNB.

Quoting DernierVirage (Reply 4):
This is like the current situation to Hong Kong, where the daily flight (773) has 3 classes, but the extra 3 x weekly flight is on the A332, only J and Y. However, I believe that the HKG flights will all be changes later this year to new style 772s, with 3 classes.

All ten flights will operate with B772ER next winter, which is a downgrade for the daily flight from the current B77W but an upgrade for the additional thrice weekly flight from the current A332. The daily double overnight flight AF188/185 will operate with the new cabins from the onset of the winter timetable, while the additional thrice weekly service will initially still operate with the old configuration, before receiving a retrofitted aircraft later in the winter.
 
DernierVirage
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:30 am

Thank you for the information, as usual very clear and useful.

As regards HKG, I in fact will be happier with the 772, since the F cabin will reduce to only 4 seats (compared to 8 in the 77W), therefore even more quiet and calm.
 
sw733
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?

Pretty doubtful in my eyes. This would be a great route for the 787 I believe, but neither BA nor SAA have ordered any, so that's sort of a moot point.

There are enough connection possibilities on both South African and British Airways (via Comair) to make Durban pretty easy to get to from the UK without the need for a nonstop.
 
richie87
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:03 pm

Interesting post. I'm going with BA from SEA to LHR then on to CPT in January of 2007... they have good connections, and also plan on staying one day in London on the return. Anybody done this route with BA before? We depart from JNB on return and one of the reasons I liked BA is BECAUSE they have two scheduled daily departures from either end... unless something were to go "slightly wrong" with the trip.

South Africa has become an enormously popular tourist/safari destination along with business travel.... and I note that some North American carriers are trying to get into the act as well; notably Delta...

Cheers, all...
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
Anybody done this route with BA before?

Check the trip reports. I believe there are some from London- to S. Africa.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?

BA used to serve both Durban and Gaborone via Johannesburg, but these tag ons have been given up since the 90s, and I doubt we'll see any of those destinations back in the near future. BA is serving a lot of domestic and regional destinations through its Comair franchise and that system seems to be working well for them.
 
AT502B
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
British Airways will also introduce a 2nd Daily LHR-CPT flight during the Southern Summer. (European Winter)

Flights will operate from October round to March and will be operated by the four class 747-400!

They operated this flight last Southern Summer with a B744. One flight is a morning departure back to LHR and the other the traditional evening departure. I rode the morning flight last Christmas and all the flights to and from CPT were packed.
I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
 
MRURUN
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm

Sorry to mix the Airlines/Destinations up bit, but does anyone in Comair/BA know how their new JNB-MRU flights are selling? There not particularly cheap, but may include them in a RTW.

Apologies again and thanks.
 
MH017
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
and flights to Kuala Lumpur are at least being studied.

Thought KUL was KLM territory; surprising move that would be !
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 13):
Thought KUL was KLM territory; surprising move that would be !

An Air France flight to KUL will not happen before the entry of MH into Skyteam, but the plans are definitely there. KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary, though is likely to come from KL/MH first.
 
SA006
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?

Not at the moment. Untill the new airport is built in Durban this is highly unlikely. I don't think the current airport in Durban can accomodate a fully loaded 747 due to runway length. But as mentioned , there are very good connections from DUR to JNB and onto London.

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Will be a shame to see the AF 744's go from JNB

Yes , will be a great shame. Have always enjoyed seeing AF bring their 744's down here. Although , the 77W will be a breath of fresh air  Smile. (Btw , thanks for plugging my pic in your post B742  Wink )

-SA006  wave 
Proudly South African
 
AT502B
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:04 am

Another B777-300ER operator to JNB. What a beauty.
Other 777 operators include:


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I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
 
CXA330300
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:26 am

Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

Do RAM serve JNB?

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
. Anybody done this route with BA before?

Yes, I have twice. I didn't have the best experience, but normally BA is EXCELLENT.

The best connection for you though would be NW/KL SEA-AMS-CPT-AMS-SEA, it is a shorter connection on the way out.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting AT502B (Reply 16):


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Hmm, JNB should really be operated by a B772ER. How peculiar.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Econojetter
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
An Air France flight to KUL will not happen before the entry of MH into Skyteam, but the plans are definitely there. KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary, though is likely to come from KL/MH first.

Just curious, do you happen to have an approximate breakdown of the pax numbers on KL809/810 for KUL vs CGK?

Of the 4 stations you mentioned (how about CGK?), only KUL is currently exclusively KL territory. That could also be one of the reasons why it is KL's busiest?

Would a capacity increase to KUL be less pressing should CGK get some nonstop flights? Could KL consider re-linking SIN to CGK, and making KUL a turnaround? In any case, as you mentioned, I also believe that additional KUL capacity will come via adjustment to the KL/MH operations.

Meanwhile, MH seems also to be trying to work something out with AZ at FCO. Adding AF-operated flights to this mix anytime soon just seems to go against the streamlining that AF/KL have been striving for, even if MH is truly SkyTeam-bound. Is AF considering placing its code on MH's CDG flights (hopefully allowing a profitable daily operation)? I wonder how is the demand specifically ex-CDG for KUL and vv. ?
 
pilot21
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

CPT has been on EI's radar for a while, but they went with Dubai as the new route this yr (although it was a March start for that route which wouldn't suit SA given the time of yr). They now don't have the aircraft available to serve it until their new aircraft arrive next summer, but look out for it being added for Winter 2007 if all goes well with the share sale next month.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
sw733
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

Alitalia: Possibly, but they are part of Skyteam, so connecting traffic can go via Paris or Amsterdam...a pain, yes, but it's a one stop, same alliance trip. But still possible to seem them in South Africa

Austrian: Less possible because of their connections with Lufthansa and South African via Star Alliance

Turkish: Possible, but remember that Kenya, I think, flies to Istanbul, making a one stop service from Turkey to South Africa possible. But then again, I am still shocked sometimes that Olympic flies to JNB, so you never know.

SAS: Again, same thing as Austrian, Star connections are pretty strong to South Africa.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Do RAM serve JNB?

Nope, the closest they fly is Cameroon if I remember correctly...so "close" isn't a good word at all!
 
MRURUN
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:11 am

No news on MRU-JNB then? Have SA reacted?
 
odie
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
An Air France flight to KUL will not happen before the entry of MH into Skyteam, but the plans are definitely there. KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary, though is likely to come from KL/MH first.

Isn't KL reducing its KUL/CGK frequency to 6 weekly this winter? If KUL is the busiest station in South East Asia, wouldn't it make more sense for them to downgrade other stations e.g. BKK, SIN, MNL or HKG?
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
Interesting post. I'm going with BA from SEA to LHR then on to CPT in January of 2007... they have good connections, and also plan on staying one day in London on the return. Anybody done this route with BA before?

Yes. Well, not exactly, but close. I did SFO-LHR-CPT last March, and it was excellent. The earlier (4:30 PM) departure of BA43 LHR-CPT really cut the wait in LHR down to about 3 hrs. Far better than 7 hrs.

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
We depart from JNB on return and one of the reasons I liked BA is BECAUSE they have two scheduled daily departures from either end... unless something were to go "slightly wrong" with the trip.

The only problem with this is collecting one's bags in JNB, clearing customs, then walking to the domestic terminal and re-checking. If you can, change you ticket to LHR-CPT non-stop. You'll be glad you did. I personally find transiting through JNB a hassle. At least I can check my bags through LHR.

Speaking of JNB, one reason I avoid SAA to/from the US is having to transit through JNB on my way to CPT. Any word on how to pressure SAA to bringing back CPT as a US gateway?
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
SA006
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Do RAM serve JNB?

No.

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 18):
Hmm, JNB should really be operated by a B772ER. How peculiar.

Quite right. Scheduled service is 772ER but occasionally we see the 777-300 from SQ.

Quoting AT502B (Reply 16):
Another B777-300ER operator to JNB. What a beauty.

We'll shortly be adding Delta to that list by the look of things.

-SA006  wave 
Proudly South African
 
AF022
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

It is tough for European carriers to make money because the aircraft sits idle all day on the tarmac for overnight flights both ways.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 21):
Possible, but remember that Kenya, I think, flies to Istanbul

This is one of the weirdest routes out there. I can't imagine KQ does well on this route.
 
AT502B
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting SA006 (Reply 25):
Quoting AT502B (Reply 16):
Another B777-300ER operator to JNB. What a beauty.

We'll shortly be adding Delta to that list by the look of things.

Sadly they switched the much anticipated flight to a B767-300ER. Maybe someday they'll upgrade it to a B777.
I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
 
Horus
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:02 am

Egyptair are upgrading their CAI-JNB-CAI flights from 3 to 4x weekly A330-200 flights this winter.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 21):
but remember that Kenya, I think, flies to Istanbul, making a one stop service from Turkey to South Africa possible

Minor correction, KQ's twice weekly IST flights route NBO-CAI-IST-CAI-NBO, which techincally means South Africa is a 2 stop service from Turkey with KQ.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
richie87
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:36 am

I really DO appreciate the comments and suggestions that people made about the LHR to/from South Africa connections. The choice of BA over SA)">NW/KLM had much to do with departure/arrival times at both ends of the trip, predominantly at Seattle for the convenience of family members.

We also fly SAA from CPT to Durban, and then spend nearly a week in KwaZulu-Natal before departing from Richards Bay on SA Express for JNB, arriving in PLENTY of time to collect bags, move from the domestic to international terminal, and await the overnight flight to LHR.

This is my second trip to South Africa... mostly this time as a "grand adventure" trip for my 13 year old nephew... who has flown but once before, and is really going to get to see a fair amount of the world. The little guy thinks he will be going on some great "Indiana Jones" adventure... and between the western Cape, and a photosafari in KZN... his Uncle is going to have a fair adventure of it as well....  Smile

Thanks again for the comments.
 
sw733
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 28):
Minor correction, KQ's twice weekly IST flights route NBO-CAI-IST-CAI-NBO, which techincally means South Africa is a 2 stop service from Turkey with KQ.

Oh ok, wasn't aware of that, thanks. I've only flown Kenya JNB-NBO-LHR and back. Sheesh, you moderator's are a pain in my butt pointing out my short comings  Wink

Quoting AF022 (Reply 26):
This is one of the weirdest routes out there. I can't imagine KQ does well on this route.

Not sure how they do, but I agree, it is quite an interesting route. Anyone know if they can carry people between CAI and IST, because I imagine if they could, that sector is probably pretty busy on its own

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 29):
We also fly SAA from CPT to Durban, and then spend nearly a week in KwaZulu-Natal before departing from Richards Bay on SA Express for JNB

Sounds like a pretty darn good trip to me. KZN is a great area, you'll enjoy it.
 
MH017
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary,

Surprising to see KLM is reducing frequence from daily to 6x a week for the coming Winter season to KUL, or has this something to do with the 747 WBC upgrade program ?
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
Horus
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RE: Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 30):
Oh ok, wasn't aware of that, thanks. I've only flown Kenya JNB-NBO-LHR and back. Sheesh, you moderator's are a pain in my butt pointing out my short comings Wink

Well someone has to do the deed SW733  Wink

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation

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