bongo
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This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:45 am

Talking with my good friend Who is a Pilot in Avianca Colombia today he told me that AV just decided the following big deal in favour of Boeing:
They will buy 30 737-800 to replace MD´s and 757´s
The good news is that they also will buy 10 787´s to replace the 767´s in 2010, turning Avianca the first airline in Latin America to have the 787.
The deal includes a number of 767´s to be used while they start to receive the 787´s.
With this movement we will see the arriving of the 767´s to cover the routes to Frankfurt, Rome and Paris (Mr. Efromovich´s desperate to start it), also the total disappearing of the 757´s and the MD 83 from the AV´s fleet.
Now, my addition to this is that the fleet will be:
30 737-800
10 787
10 Fokker 100 (or more?)
10 Fokker 50 (or less?)
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
EddieDude
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
they also will buy 10 787´s to replace the 767´s in 2010, turning Avianca the first airline in Latin America to have the 787.

Great for Colombia and for AV! But isn't AM going to be the first 787 operator in Latin America? ILFC will lease 3 788's to AM (there's an option for 2 more) and this is already official.

So, after 2010, will BOG-MEX be served with 787's? Will AV's 787's be -800's too?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
bongo
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
But isn't AM going to be the first 787 operator in Latin America? ILFC will lease 3 788's to AM (there's an option for 2 more) and this is already official.

Hey Eddie...you may be right !
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
Avianca
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
Talking with my good friend Who is a Pilot in Avianca Colombia today he told me that AV just decided the following big deal in favour of Boeing:
They will buy 30 737-800 to replace MD´s and 757´s
The good news is that they also will buy 10 787´s to replace the 767´s in 2010, turning Avianca the first airline in Latin America to have the 787.
The deal includes a number of 767´s to be used while they start to receive the 787´s.
With this movement we will see the arriving of the 767´s to cover the routes to Frankfurt, Rome and Paris (Mr. Efromovich´s desperate to start it), also the total disappearing of the 757´s and the MD 83 from the AV´s fleet.
Now, my addition to this is that the fleet will be:
30 737-800
10 787
10 Fokker 100 (or more?)
10 Fokker 50 (or less?)

very intresting, and hopefully true! anyway I think we have to wait the official press-release.

Great if they would start very soon flights to Frankfurt again!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
a300aa
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:41 am

Very good news, if they are true.

Specially for those 737/8.

Good airplane, and it cost a lot less to operate one of those vs a 757.
 
Southamerica
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:43 am

Nice news, but I'm starting to see a problem here.

Avianca currently depends on the 757s for routes which cannot support 767-service, but cannot be operated with MD-83s due to BOG's altitude conditions.

Would the 738 serve as a good replacement for the 757 on those tasks? Wouldn't the 73G be more appropriate?

Let's see what the company has to say.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
stirling
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
But isn't AM going to be the first 787 operator in Latin America?

Then....why don't we say?: FIRST IN SOUTH AMERICA...!
Does that work?
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atnight
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:54 am

I think this is great news, IF they are true.... Many times pilots are not the most acurate when it comes to fleet rumors.... we've seen many of those "a friend of mine who is a pilot" discussions here in a.net about new orders and well... sometimes they are right, but sometimes they are way off.... so until something more credible comes to light, I won't take it too seriously... Hopefully this one will be true... we'll see though in the future....
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
copaair737
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 5):

Would the 738 serve as a good replacement for the 757 on those tasks? Wouldn't the 73G be more appropriate?

Perhaps there will be a 737 order, but with options for the different variants?? A 738 would be a good pickup for AV IMO, as it has more seating capacity than the 73G. The 73G would be good for long, thinner routes. Maybe toss in some 739s or 739Xs for routes to CCS or UIO.
Regardless, its great to see AV turning things around. I think the new post-Summa colors are great, and seeing a 787 flying for AV would be awesome.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
bogota
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:54 am

My sources say: #1 says the official announcement will be made on the 17th of September. Why on a Sunday? Maybe to get a good coverage on written media. #2 says for sure it will be Boeing believe me. I can´t say I believe anybody anymore. #3 which is my very good source, says that if he tells me, he has to kill me, but I will like the announcement. What ever that means. I am just sick of so much rumour, I just hope the waiting will pay off.
 
flyinfroggie
Posts: 86
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:13 pm

Not necessarily "official" news, but as I was sitting here in Avianca´s VIP Lounge in Bogotá, I was staring at the series of computers on the back counter ' and an image grabbed my attention... it was a 787 in Avianca colors. That prompted me to log onto here and see if anything had been posted. I think that it´s great news ' if it´s true...

Avianca... Líderes 2010
 
bongo
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 5):
Avianca currently depends on the 757s for routes which cannot support 767-service, but cannot be operated with MD-83s due to BOG's altitude conditions.

Hi Southa...
Well I think those routes can be well covered with 737-800´s, don´t you?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
Southamerica
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 11):
Well I think those routes can be well covered with 737-800's, don't you?

The 738s don't have the legs to make it from BOG to EZE/GRU/SCL nonstop.


S.
 
bongo
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 12):
The 738s don't have the legs to make it from BOG to EZE/GRU/SCL nonstop.

Well...That´s why they will buy 10 787´s and while they are flying...some sort of deal to have 767´s until 2010.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
PDPsol
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 12):
The 738s don't have the legs to make it from BOG to EZE/GRU/SCL nonstop.

I am, of course, aware BOG is a high-altitude airport, however CM flies their 73G nonstop from their PTY hub to EZE, MVD and GRU [and soon, GIG].

The 73G has a 3,260nm/6,037km range for the HGW, while the 738 has a 2,940nm/5,445km range for the HGW, quite a range advantage for the 73G. As mentioned, this does NOT take into account performance restrictions associated with BOG's altitude.

According to great circle mapper:

BOG-EZE is 2,902mi
BOG-SCL is 2,629mi
BOG-GRU is 2,688mi
BOG-GIG is 2,817mi

Looks like the 737-900ER might be better-suited for AV's long-haul regional flights.
 
stirling
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 12):
The 738s don't have the legs to make it from BOG to EZE/GRU/SCL nonstop.

?

737-800
Maximum Range 3,060 nautical miles (5665 km)
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777jaah
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Bogota (Reply 9):
#2 says for sure it will be Boeing believe me

Last week I had a conversation from their financial dept, and he told me they were 60-40 for Boeing, not because Airbus didn't offered goog stuff, just because they don't forget the A320 with VX (His words, not mine), so it doesn't surprise me at all, if True.

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
also the total disappearing of the 757´s and the MD 83 from the AV´s fleet

This won't be a problem for Efromovich, he'll find companies aroud to place them.......OceainAir, VIP, Wayra, where he has contacts to strike a good deal for that metal  wink 

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
we will see the arriving of the 767´s to cover the routes to Frankfurt, Rome and Paris

Any word on LON? Might be more profitable than Rome (of course I'm just speculating here).

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
we will see the arriving of the 767´s

How exactly can this work for Boeing?? They'll find some in the market and lease them to AV?? I just don't know, plain ignorance on my side.

I guess this is a rumour (until an official word comes out) but it seems the right way, and most logical one, to go by AV. This people is working hard to put this company where it belongs, and this is the right step to achive that goal. I'm confident in a few years AV will recover its position as one of the great carriers in this side of the world and will put a fight with the big ones like AM and LA.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
a300aa
Posts: 298
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:14 am

The 737/8 will have restrictions going out of BOG, and other cities.


Even the 737/8 from AA are certified for BOG altitude, they haven´t been able to flight them there. There have been rumors of an afternoon flight out of BOG using these equipment but never materialized.

MDE will get this sept a 737/8 to MIA, on AA.

And BOG will get again a 767/3 for Holiday seasson.
 
rootsair
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
They will buy 30 737-800 to replace MD´s and 757´s

isn't the 737-900 a better replacement for the 757 capacitywise?
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
jfk777
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:26 am

Sorry to see the 757 go so soon, they have only been with Avianca for 12 years.
 
Southamerica
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 13):
Well...That´s why they will buy 10 787´s and while they are flying

So that means that SCL, for instance, will be condemned to receive barely 3x weekly flights because they simply cannot support a daily 787.

See the point? The 757 plays an important role in AV, and it will be tough to replace it efficiently.

Another problem would be MDE-JFK. It cannot be done by a 738, would it support a 787? Maybe making it again only 4x weekly.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 14):
I am, of course, aware BOG is a high-altitude airport, however CM flies their 73G nonstop from their PTY hub to EZE, MVD and GRU [and soon, GIG].

True. Bare in mind I was talking exclusively about the 737-800. I believe the longest sector Copa flies with the -800 on a regular basis is PTY-MEX.

As for the rest, I agree, you pretty much illustrated with numbers and figures the point I was trying to make. The 738 would only serve as a true replacement for AV in domestic and short to medium-haul routes.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 15):
737-800
Maximum Range 3,060 nautical miles (5665 km)

BOG is 8300 feet above sea level. Only a handfull of airports receiving regular intercontinental flights are that high. The aircraft cannot make it nonstop to the southern cone under those conditions.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
NicolasRubio
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:04 am

BOG-EZE, nowadays is served with 767 (am I wrong?) so maybe it'd be served with 787s...
Gripped 7D + Sigma 10-20mm + 17-40L + 50mm f/1.8 II + 70-200mm f/4L IS + EF 400mm f/5.6L + 580EX II
 
777jaah
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 21):
BOG-EZE, nowadays is served with 767 (am I wrong?) so maybe it'd be served with 787s...

This route has high lf's and good yields, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's the case.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
bongo
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 20):
Another problem would be MDE-JFK. It cannot be done by a 738

Acording to Great Circle Map MDE-JFK is 2375 mi, perfectly done by a 738.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
JAL
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:00 am

Is this news been confirmed yet?
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
cessnalady
Posts: 281
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:17 am

Reading one post after the other seems to me enthusiasm is making some people blind to the fact that BOG and MDE's high-altitude conditions effectively hinder the B737 family capacities by a lot... Regardless of what Great Circle Mapper says, the statue range of a B738 is greatly reduced upon departing from BOG at an elevation of 8300Ft. For example, this a/c could not make it to MEX or EZE... Much less if you stop to consider that departing from MEX it will be facing another high-altitude take off at 7860Ft... This would make a B73G the natural choice... if it wasn't for it is only good for 124 pax... long ways from the current +/-180 pax density carried between these two cities daily by a B757 or a B767... Would AV upgrade MEX to 2x B73G daily to compensate? Or to B787 service?

So I must agree with those who believe the B757 will be hard to replace...

Marie
 
Summa767
Posts: 1778
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 24):
Is this news been confirmed yet?

No official announcement, and we may have have to wait a couple of weeks for it. But there is strong "chatter" on the issue. It has been reported in a national magazine that AV's CEO iwas in the US last week with his shopping list.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 5):
Avianca currently depends on the 757s for routes which cannot support 767-service, but cannot be operated with MD-83s due to BOG's altitude conditions.

Would the 738 serve as a good replacement for the 757 on those tasks? Wouldn't the 73G be more appropriate?

Let us see what the breakdown of the order is.
I also think that the range advantage of the 73G would make them worth having in AV's fleet (as well as the 738). As you say, SCL could well be served daily using that type, and the MDE/CLO-JFK operations could even be split for a dedicated service from each. PEI/BAQ-JFK would be better served with the 737 too.

I am very curious as to the stop-gap 767s. Will these be new? A mixture of 762 and 763s, or even 764s?
 
Southamerica
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 23):
Acording to Great Circle Map MDE-JFK is 2375 mi, perfectly done by a 738.

Of course it can, in theory. But you know that realistically, it would be done with half the cargo loads, and probably passenger-restricted as well to make up for MDE's high-altitude. Who knows to what extent would it affect the flight's profitability.

Same happens with the MD-83s on MDE-MIA. Judging by simple distance, it's a three-hour flight that could be perfectly done, theoretically, by the MDs. But thanks to altitude in MDE, the MDs can only take-off with 96 passengers [yes, 96 out of 140], and with cargo restriction in order to make it nonstop to Miami from Medellin.

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 21):
BOG-EZE, nowadays is served with 767 (am I wrong?) so maybe it'd be served with 787s...

Yes. The flight physically requires a 767 right now because the route is being served with 4 miserable weekly frequencies [added to AR's 3x].

With only 7x weekly frequencies split between two carriers, BOG-EZE registered an average load factor of 78% in high-season. If Avianca wishes to make that route daily, I doubt it would support a 787, at least not initially.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:33 am

I'm not surprise if this is true. AV has been a Boeing operator for some time and probably will be.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Sr22GTS
Posts: 6
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:06 am

Do you think this will lead to a lot of new pilot hiring?
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Sr22GTS (Reply 29):
Do you think this will lead to a lot of new pilot hiring?

AFAIK, they've been hiring a lot, mainly because of the fleet of F-100s they bought from AA.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
jfk777
Posts: 5960
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:31 am

I used to fly Avianca from BAQ to JFK in the early 1970's on 707's. They left in the morning from BAQ arriving at JFK in the mid-afternoon. Some Genious at Avianca has BAQ to JFk leaving at something like 11:30pm arriving at JFK at 5:00 am(with a hour's difference) on an MD-83. AV MD-83 have no inflight entertainment system because they were purchased for domestic & regional routes. Av offers what is the only BAQ to Miami flight daily on an MD-83 too. AA used to fly it but gave it up in 2002. Miami and JFK from Colombia are huge routes, they should have half decent airplanes. From MDE and Cali AV flies 757 daily nonstop from each to Miami, why can't they find a 757 for old Barranquilla to JFK during daylight hours? Business Class on AV MD-83 to the USA is a very narrow seat. No wonder Avianca is the AEROFLOT of the Americas. Avianca needs either Copa or Lan Chile.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 31):
Some Genious at Avianca has BAQ to JFk leaving at something like 11:30pm arriving at JFK at 5:00 am(with a hour's difference) on an MD-83.

I expect you to be aware that the above is a completely and entirely personal opinion.

I would personally love to depart BAQ late at night. It allows me to spend the whole day before in Barranquilla, and arrive early in the morning to spend the entire next day in New York. Additionally, a red-eye flight is much more bearable without IFE, because the vast majority of the airplane [including myself] would be asleep. That would not be the case on a day-light service.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 31):
From MDE and Cali AV flies 757 daily nonstop from each to Miami, why can't they find a 757 for old Barranquilla to JFK during daylight hours?

Not to get your hopes down, but it's extremely unlikely to see a bigger aircraft used on BAQ-JFK. The route was initially planned as a 4x weekly service, but was downgraded to 3x weekly even before being launched.

On the other hand, BAQ-MIA does have what it takes to sustain a daily 757 instead of the current MD-83. Loads for BAQ-MIA during high season were of 90%.

Still, it's clear that the airline doesn't have much 757s to spare, and other additional frames would come in handy for other routes where the MD-83s are very limited cargo-wise, like BOG-UIO. In other words, they have no need to replace the MD-83s on BAQ-MIA.

By the way, I don't see what the problem is. BAQ-MIA is just 2 and a half hours long. There are plenty of MD-flights out there in the States that are much longer, and without IFE either.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 31):
No wonder Avianca is the AEROFLOT of the Americas.

If you said it because of the cool paintscheme, I understand.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
Summa767
Posts: 1778
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 31):
Some Genious at Avianca has BAQ to JFk leaving at something like 11:30pm arriving at JFK at 5:00 am(with a hour's difference) on an MD-83. AV MD-83 have no inflight entertainment system because they were purchased for domestic & regional routes

Genious, no doubt, as they discovered that parking the airplane overnight made no money.
Agreed that the MD83 is not an ideal plane for a 4 hour route. The red eye schedule is indeed aimed at the leisure passenger more than the business. Still, I am happy that PEI and BAQ are now connected to JFK, and I would not have any qualms in arriving in JFK in the early morning after the red eye with no more entertainment than classical music and a blanket.
The route should, however, benefit from brand new 737s.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 31):
Av offers what is the only BAQ to Miami flight daily on an MD-83 too

On a 2 hour flight, I don't see much problem with the MD servicing this route. I am sure that if demand calls, AV will increase the frequency.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 31):
Avianca is the AEROFLOT of the Americas. Avianca needs either Copa or Lan Chile.

Aeroflot is nowdays a fine airline, member of SkyTeam. Perhaps Avianca can follow suit. The whole point of this thread is to highlight Avianca's ambitious plan for fleet renewal. They have worked by themselves what they need to improve, fleet change included, and therefore need neither LAN nor Copa.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5960
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:54 am

Southamerica,
The times AV flies from BAQ to JFK are set by them no me, "how can it be my opinion"?
All my life traveling to Colombia has been during daylight hours. US east coast time and Colombia time are the same except in the summer when the USA has "Daylight saving time". I have taken many evening flight when crossing times zones(eastward and westward), traveling very long distances(SFO to HKG) and flying was 12 to 15 hours. BAQ to JFK is 2000 miles (more or less), at the extreme limit of an MD-83's range, and not crossing time zones. Night flying for four hours is too short. My info is from the Avianca website. Flying to JFK at night for only 4 hours is what Avianca can get away with in Colombia when they have limited competition. BOG to JFK used to leave BOG at 5:00pm arriving at JFK at 10:30PM, Now it leaves BOG at 11:59 arriving early in New York a 5:30am, another lousy hour. What the poor Colombian passenger to do, fly Copa or AA; many do.

To Europe the only competition Avianca has are Air France and Iberia, Lufthansa and British Airways both left that market. Avianca has abused the Colombian traveling public for its entire 85 years of existance. I was referring to the AERPFLOT of Soviet Times. Even when AEROCONDOR was around, it was better then AV. I fondly remember the A300 from Baq to Miami, I had two trips on that plane. I took a trip to Baq from Miami in July 2004 on an MD-83, the airplane left so much excess bagage since its so skiny half the passenger were complaining. Clearly an MD-83 is too small for the luggage demands of Baq to Miami. Now that AV has entered a new era, I hope trhe new management learns from LAN Chile and not the old "Julio Mario Santo Domingo" school of Management.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2303
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RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:00 am

Jfk777,

Your position is absolutely personal because you are the one who finds it to be inconvinient. That most definitely does not imply that everybody thinks as you do, and I hope you understand that.


Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 34):
BOG to JFK used to leave BOG at 5:00pm arriving at JFK at 10:30PM, Now it leaves BOG at 11:59 arriving early in New York a 5:30am, another lousy hour. What the poor Colombian passenger to do, fly Copa or AA; many do.

Allow me to remind you that Copa arrives into JFK around 1 o'clock in the morning. If that's your definition of a good arrival hour, then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 34):
Now it leaves BOG at 11:59 arriving early in New York a 5:30am, another lousy hour.

Again, another completely personal view.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 34):
I hope trhe new management learns from LAN Chile

Look, it's evident that you are very biased against Avianca, and I won't be questioning that. If Avianca isn't the convinient option you are looking for, then simply don't fly with them, fortunately there are other airlines which might cater for your needs, like Copa with their 1 o'clock arrival to New York, or American through burdenmost-Miami, which, to be honest, don't offer a product much different than the one offered by Avianca.

Avianca may learn a bit about LAN in terms of being a very business-oriented company, but I hope you remember that LAN also has its own history in playing dirty, and I wish that Avianca never decides to mirror that from them.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 34):
BOG to JFK used to leave BOG at 5:00pm arriving at JFK at 10:30PM, Now it leaves BOG at 11:59 arriving early in New York a 5:30am, another lousy hour. What the poor Colombian passenger to do, fly Copa or AA; many do.

Maybe you like flying all day long, I rather arrive at the airport at 9:00 p.m. to check in and be in NYC next morning. CO leaves at 9:00 a.m. that means you get up at 4:00 a.m to make it in time to the airport and you are barely leaving JFK at 4:00 p.m. talk about inconvenient. Maybe you are the kind of guy that likes looking out the window during the flight, for me I just want to sleep and get there. Daylight flights no matter how long are always, busier during the flight and nosier. I think you need to understand different people different tastes before complaining about things.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:42 am

I've never flown AV, but can tell you AV is popular enough to be invited to an alliance. Everyone has THEIR OWN opinion. My opinion is that AV is a GREAT airline. I hope they get 787's and 738's, though I would presume the 739ER is better suited to AV's needs.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
adriaticus
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 37):
AV is popular enough to be invited to an alliance.

I do hope they get the new planes as anticipated in this thread, and most specially, they make the qualitative, administrative and systemic upgrades necessary to win the race for becoming SkyTeam's partner for South America. CM is ahead, though!

__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
jfk777
Posts: 5960
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:10 pm

Southamerica,

My opinions of Avianca are from flying them many times all my life. IF my experirnces on Avianca were as positive as Qantas or Singapore Airlines I would gladly tell you. I thought Pan Am was a great airline but I would only fly there shuttle from New York to Boston since Eastern's shuttle stunk, to Europe I would fly British Airways, KLM or the best airline for the place I was going to, even if Pan AM flew there(many times they did). Most of my trips to Europe have been from JFK so as you know Pan AM had quite a schedule from there.

Once my family got a call the day before the flight from BAQ to Miami was leaving 2 hours earlier them scheduled. Another time I was flying from Cali to Baq on a 727-100, there were no nonstop then so the plane stopped in Medellin, as the plane was taxing the pilot annouces we were flying to Bucaramanga; when this airplane got to Bucaramanga the crews duty time had run out, so here we are waiting for 4 hours on the plane for another crew that was taken off aflight from Bogota to continue the flight to BAQ. These are only some of the anecdotes I have to tell about how I arrived at my opionion of AV.

Avianca has tremendous leverage with the Aerocivil and other depatments of the Colombian Government. When American stopped flying to BAQ, What was the reason? Well AA could only fly to 3 Colombian cities from Miami, I wonder if this was to protect Avianca and Aces? AA would have stayed in BAQ if they could have flown to the bigger market in MDE too. While there have been some new USA airlines service to Colombia; Delta from Atlanta & Cal from Iah and EWR, Why can't AA fly to Bogota from DFW like they do to almost every other Latin American Capitol. Avianca has the government limit competition to the detriment of the Colombian flying public, there is no reason it should cost $500 to fly from Miami to BAQ, when on the same distance from Miami to New York a ticket can be had for $200. The answer is lack is competition.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1778
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
AA would have stayed in BAQ if they could have flown to the bigger market in MDE too. While there have been some new USA airlines service to Colombia; Delta from Atlanta & Cal from Iah and EWR, Why can't AA fly to Bogota from DFW like they do to almost every other Latin American (sic) Capitol.

It is true that one of Aerocivil's tasks is to protect the colombian airline industry. So it has heavily regulated it -as do most countries- with bilateral agreements and limits on frequencies. However, things have changed somewhat, and the number of allowed frequencies between the US and Colombia have increased. The mood is to move towards an open skies. However, as it is, American Airlines is not making use of its full allocation. If it wanted to fly from DFW and to BAQ there should be no problems in the application. Just like CO is not making use of its full allocation on flights to CLO (and MDE if it wanted).

Competition is indeed important, and with a good outlook for Aerorepublica under the umbrella of a Copa, I expect that service can only keep improving.

Nobody is claiming that AV should be compared to SQ -Although I have had as good service on AV from LON as I have done with BA- but in any case, there is no much point in looking back, but look forward to the next era with an efficient fleet and expanding destinations and frequencies.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
These are only some of the anecdotes I have to tell about how I arrived at my opionion of AV.

Sure that happenned, but come on, I can bet that happenned to you at least 15-20 years ago. Many things have changed in AV since then.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
Why can't AA fly to Bogota from DFW like they do to almost every other Latin American Capitol

Maybe there's no market for that route and furthermore, AA might not be interested in adding more seats in a market where yields are good enough for them.



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
$500 to fly from Miami to BAQ, when on the same distance from Miami to New York a ticket can be had for $200.

I think those markets are a little bit diffrent to be compared, just lika apples and oranges........

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
there is no reason it should cost $500 to fly from Miami to BAQ, when on the same distance from Miami to New York a ticket can be had for $200.

Don´t think BAQ-MIA-BAQ is $500. From MDE to MIA rtn is around $329 low seasson and around $429 in high season.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
jfk777
Posts: 5960
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:15 am

Bongo,

Last time I went Miami-Baq -Miami I had to go that day in July 2004 because of a death in the family, Avianca made me $850 pooer. There is reason and there is highway robbery. Colombia to Miami is Robberry, when the low season is over $300, that expensive. In Janaury I can fly from Miami to London for $200 roundtrip.

I can understand Avianca having to fly many money loosing domestic routes but as the Usa to Colombia passenger, why should I have to sub-sidize the domestic loosing passenger. The MD-83 from BaQ -Miami-Baq really goes Bog-BAQ-Miami-Baq-Bog. Instead of operating the domestic leg every day, why doesn't AV rotate a 757 from Miami to BAQ back to Miami. I think AV could help itself on that route if they rescheduled the flight. The fight from Miami leaves at 2:50 pm, too early for most connections from Europe which arrive in the 2:00pm to 3:30m window. Also flights from other US cities. IF AV left at 5:30pm then they could carry a few more passengers. Flying to Europe on AV is great if Spain is your destination but lousy if is not. When Eastern or American flew to BAQ from Miami in the afternoon they always had a late departure from Miami for connections. Since all the passenger on the Miami - BAQ flight are going to Barranquilla the time of arrival really isn't that important. Just a thought to the Big shots in Bogota.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
The answer is lack is competition.

The answer: Aeroepublica or other Colombian airlines flying to MIA Big grin
 
User avatar
Coal
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:14 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
Why can't AA fly to Bogota from DFW like they do to almost every other Latin American Capitol

The same reason AV doesn't have any flights from BOG to Cayenne or Paramaribo. Hey, they fly to every other SoAm capital!  Yeah sure

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 43):
Avianca made me $850 pooer. There is reason and there is highway robbery. Colombia to Miami is Robberry, when the low season is over $300, that expensive. In Janaury I can fly from Miami to London for $200 roundtrip.

It's called Economics. Same reason DL Connection charges up to $500 for a flight from TLH to FLL.

Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:57 am

Jfk777,

If you're flight experience is so vast, you should know by now that everything you are criticizing about Avianca is common for many other airlines as well. I give very little credit to your point of view, really, because it's evident that you simply cannot have a neutral perspective of the situation.

Don't get me started about ticket prices, as American is the first to charge over $500 on flights to Miami from Haiti for instance, which are much shorter than from Colombia. Not to mention Copa's $650-fares for winter traveling to Miami. I don't blame them though [neither should you], as every business-oriented airline would do exactly the same. You seem to forget that Avianca, just as every other privately-owned company, is out there for making money, period. They don't care about people as long as the cash flows in, and their commitment to Colombia or to any given city lasts until the flight starts losing bucks. It's absolutely and perfectly understandable.

About your last-minute fare to Barranquilla, well, it would have happened in any other carrier as well, and you know it. By rule, by simple common sense, last-minute fares are extremely expensive, because the company knows people is willing to pay for them. There is no reason for Avianca to feel sorry for you and make a 200-dollar discount, no, because again, they are out there for making money, and they were just making a goal out of your unfortunate circumstances.

You seem pretty naive when you expect airlines to charge people less because of some kind of humanitarian commitment that does not exist. Avianca is the only one flying BAQ-MIA, and as long as it stays that way, fares are going to stay as they are. American would be doing the same.

And allow me remind you that American also had several problems with local employees in Barranquilla, which is half the story of why they left. I hope you are aware that nobody is stopping them from returning to Barranquilla, they are free to apply for the route if they wish, and if they haven't done so, it's because they have a good reason within the airline.

Also, thank you for having completely hijacked this thread  Angry Fortunately when the official announcement of the new fleet is made, we'll have the chance to open an entirely new discussion which I hope remains focused on the topic at hand.



SOUTHAMERICA



 
jfk777
Posts: 5960
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:48 am

South America,

What did happen to American in BAQ ? I knew the manager Adelina D'Amato, she was manager there from Eastern then AA but she has sinced died.

Your observations about my opinions may be from living outside Colombia for too many years now, I dread the Miami airport and traveling to Colombia because no matter what airline I fly there is a culture involved at MIA that is annoying. Even AA has problems with the culture in Miami they don't have in Chicago and DFW.

My opinions of Avianca are because I want it to strive to be the best it can be, wether the standard is JetBlue, Lan Chile, Singapore or British Airways. Being the best in northern South America is not a worthy goal, there isn't much to measure against. Best in every market they serve is.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5960
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:11 pm

Avianca would be better served with a mixed fleet of 737-700 and -800's then 30 738 alone. Maybe some 739ER should be considered too.
 
LIPZ
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

RE: This Is The New Fleet For Avianca!

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
The deal includes a number of 767´s to be used while they start to receive the 787´s.
With this movement we will see the arriving of the 767´s to cover the routes to Frankfurt, Rome and Paris (Mr. Efromovich´s desperate to start it), also the total disappearing of the 757´s and the MD 83 from the AV´s fleet.

When could they start these european routes? How is performing the new one to BCN?

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