af773atmsp
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Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:56 am

I was looking at the northwest route map but I didn't see Sydney or Auckland while I was looking. When did NW stop service to Sydney and Auckland? Will they fly to SYD or AKL again? Hopefully NW will.  pray 
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CXA330300
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:00 am

IIRC it was sometime shortly before 9/11. Does anyone remember from where in the US they flew from? MSP/DTW can't be reached directly from SYD/AKL with any NW aircraft.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:07 am

They flew to SYD from DTW via Osaka. Not sure of the AKL routing. Something tells me it was through HNL. Kind of cloudy on it.
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USPIT10L
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 1):
IIRC it was sometime shortly before 9/11. Does anyone remember from where in the US they flew from? MSP/DTW can't be reached directly from SYD/AKL with any NW aircraft.

SYD was dropped in 1995.
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centrair
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:19 am

Before flying via Osaka didn't they fly from LAX? But then they decided to go via Osaka to take advantage of their 5th freedom rights? Didn't the OZ government try and give NW the push out in favor of UA?

I heard that UA also has the right to fly from Japan to OZ and NZ. Is this true?

I think NW will be back in OZ in the near future. Come 2009 they will the only US carrier with enough aircraft for larger Pacific Expansion.
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aaden
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:21 am

don't they still fly to Sydney from japan?
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
Before flying via Osaka didn't they fly from LAX

I believe it was always through Osaka.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
Come 2009 they will the only US carrier with enough aircraft for larger Pacific Expansion.

Or CO with our 787 deliveries.
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VHVXB
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting AAden (Reply 5):
don't they still fly to Sydney from japan?

No they don't unfortunately. There is a lack of skyteam carriers in SYD and AKL
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 1):
IIRC it was sometime shortly before 9/11.

KIX-KUL was dropped in 2001 about 2 months after 9-11 when LAX-KIX was terminated.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 3):
SYD was dropped in 1995.

Actually 1994, LAX/HNL-SYD were dropped in 1/94, and JFK-ITM-SYD was dropped 6 months later SYD-ITM operating the last NWA Australian service with a 747-100.
We did briefly return to Aussie soil in 2000 for the Sydney Olympic games. We transported the US Olympic team from LAX.

[Edited 2006-08-28 04:49:40]
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STT757
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:45 am

There was a LAX-SYD nonstop which lasted a very short time, this would be the early '90s. LAX during this time in the Early Nineties had some other interesting nonstops from NW, Taipei, Hong Kong and Seoul at one time had nonstops from LAX although they did not last long.

Then there was the Honolulu-Sydney flights and the JFK-KIX-SYD flight which lasted untill '94 or '95.

NWA should take their 787s and open up shop in Seattle (again), Taipei, Hong Kong, Osaka, Seoul, Sydney, Bangalore, Delhi etc.
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jetjack74
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
They flew to SYD from DTW via Osaka

It was JFK-ITM-SYD. A 747-400 flew the leg from JFK to ITM, with a 747-100 flying the 2nd leg form ITM to SYD. It operated M,W,Th,F and Sun from JFK-Osaka and Osaka-Sydney operated M,F Sun

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
Not sure of the AKL routing. Something tells me it was through HNL

We never served AKL.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Then there was the Honolulu-Sydney flights and the JFK-KIX-SYD flight which lasted untill '94 or '95.

JFK-ITM-SYD. We were using Itami at the time, KIX was still under construction and didn't open until 7/96
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6thfreedom
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:07 pm

NW also faced some issues when operating USA-SYD over japan.
The air services agreement limited NW to only 50% uplift from japan, hence making the service unprofitable.
This was a restriction placed by Australian authorities.

Quoting AAden (Reply 5):
don't they still fly to Sydney from japan?

Nope. although they do interline with QF between japan and Australia.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 7):
There is a lack of skyteam carriers in SYD and AKL

KE serves both AKL and SYD daily...
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:38 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 11):
KE serves both AKL and SYD daily...

Well when you compare it to Star Alliance and Oneworld its very small. But they do serve other Australian cities.
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 11):
This was a restriction placed by Australian authorities.

Not true! The 50% restriction was placed by the Japanesse authorities, with the Oz authorities agreeing, as the restriction was in the Japan-USA bilateral, not the Oz-USA bilateral.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
Didn't the OZ government try and give NW the push out in favor of UA?

What?? Why would the Oz government favour one US carrier over another?

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
I heard that UA also has the right to fly from Japan to OZ and NZ. Is this true?

The USA has the right to designate carriers to use the fifth freedom rights available under the bilateral from Oz to Asia & Europe. No US carrier has used them since the days of PA, except for the NW exercise already discussed in this thread.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
I think NW will be back in OZ in the near future. Come 2009 they will the only US carrier with enough aircraft for larger Pacific Expansion.

I strongly doubt it! NW is poorly positioned for services to the SW Pacific. Its hubs at MSP & DTW do not serve the majority of North America efficiently when talking about the SW Pacific. I strongly doubt that any North American city, outside those already served, has sufficient O&D to justify a point to point service, so connections rule.


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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:00 pm

NW don't fly to SYD or AKL.
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ba757gla
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:28 pm

is it just UA who fly to oz and nz?
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 15):
is it just UA who fly to oz and nz?

No.

UA fly LAX-SYD & SFO-SYD, one plane then flies SYD-MEL-SYD. All daily.

HA fly HNL-SYD 3-4 weekly

CO fly GUM-CNS 2-3 times a week

No US airlines fly to NZ

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rjm717
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:55 pm

A couple of points need to be clarified.

1) NW never served NZ
2) At one time we had SYD-LAX / SYD-HNL / SYD-ITM-USA services totalling 10 per week.
3) Service to Australia was stopped by Jabba The Hut. Oh, sorry - Mike Levine (same thing!!!) in August 1994, when the service was actually profitable!

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 13):
Not true! The 50% restriction was placed by the Japanesse authorities, with the Oz authorities agreeing, as the restriction was in the Japan-USA bilateral, not the Oz-USA bilateral.

4) Actually, it was the Aust Labor Govt that imposed restrictions on the SYD-ITM-USA (JFK then DTW) services, not Japan, after pressure by QANTAS who couldn't compete on the route. UA has the rights to operate the route, but the Aust govt continues to block their request to do so daily.

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Camille38
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:04 am

It is strange to see, Tokyo as a Northwest Airlines hub...
what kind of agreement there is between NW and the japanese government?
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Camille38 (Reply 18):
what kind of agreement there is between NW and the japanese government?

The kind you get when you win WW2.

I want to know about AA's flights to Australia in the old days:

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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Camille38 (Reply 18):
It is strange to see, Tokyo as a Northwest Airlines hub...
what kind of agreement there is between NW and the japanese government?

The same kind of agreement that gave Pan Am exclusive rights for Intra-Germany routes from Berlin, and a hub at Frankfurt. WWII.
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Camille38
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
The same kind of agreement that gave Pan Am exclusive rights for Intra-Germany routes from Berlin, and a hub at Frankfurt. WWII.

Since then they have these rights! But why only NWA?
 
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STT757
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Camille38 (Reply 21):
Since then they have these rights! But why only NWA?

UAL also has beyond rights at NRT.
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Gemuser
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Rjm717 (Reply 17):
4) Actually, it was the Aust Labor Govt that imposed restrictions on the SYD-ITM-USA (JFK then DTW) services, not Japan

Here we go again! It is a restriction based on the US/Japan bilateral! It was imposed & enforced by Japan! (With Oz agreeing, of course)

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jetjack74
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Camille38 (Reply 21):
Since then they have these rights! But why only NWA?

Becuase the US aviation enterprise resurected the Japanese civil air transport system follwoing WW2 which in return the Bilateral agreement was signed, but blatently favouring US carriers serving Japan. In that era, it was Northwest Airways(Became Northwest Orient) and Pan American. 5th Freedom rights beyond Japan were granted in 1952. Japan Airlines di fly a few routes byond the US with DC8's to Latin America during the 20th century

Quoting STT757 (Reply 22):
UAL also has beyond rights at NRT.

In which they acquired from Pan Am in 1984.
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 24):
In which they acquired from Pan Am in 1984.

Just a little correction, the sale took place on April 22, 1985
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jetjack74
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 25):
Just a little correction, the sale took place on April 22, 1985

Right.
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 pm

Skyteam is not small. Larger than one world - however, the smallest representation of the 3 major alliances in the Australia / NZ market. Would be lovely if we could attract MH to Skyteam, and have DL or NW flying down under as well, to help close the gaps in their network coverage. However, I suspect the chances of another US carrier entering the NZ market are almost nil.
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 7):
There is a lack of skyteam carriers in SYD and AKL

Tell me about it.

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 27):
Would be lovely if we could attract MH to Skyteam, and have DL or NW flying down under as well,

Yes it would but I don't think DL or NW will free up or buy any planes any time soon to fly the route. Until then I'm stuck (if you can call it that) on SQ this coming week to Sydney. I'll get SkyMiles for it but no Medallion qualification miles. Oh well.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:52 am

But NW made an order of 787s. I think the 787s were going to be for Asian/Pacific routes and international flights. Heres my guess on the 787 routes plus SYD and AKL.

NRT-SYD
NRT-AKL
MSP-CDG
DTW-CDG
HKG-SYD
HKG-AKL
NRT-HKG
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jetjack74
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 29):

NRT-SYD
NRT-AKL
MSP-CDG
DTW-CDG
HKG-SYD
HKG-AKL
NRT-HKG

Well, I think DTW/MSP-CDG are probably the most probable of those routes.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:16 am

Although the CDG routes would probably be used by A330s. From MSP 744s go to NRT. A333s go to AMS, HNL (soon), CDG (soon), and LGW. So maybe the 787s at MSP would go to Osaka, SYD (possibly), HKG (possibly). From DTW 744s go to NRT and Osaka. A330s go to AMS, LGW, and CDG. So 787s would go to HKG, SYD (possibly), and AKL (possibly).
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jetjack74
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 31):

Anything is possible, but i'm not sure what NWA would be willing to risk, since there is so much competition between Australasia and Japan-China region. Both Australia and Japan have LCC's as well as flag carrying aircraft flying those routes. But I suppose we shall wait and see.
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VHVXB
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 27):
Would be lovely if we could attract MH to Skyteam

I think MH will be joining soon.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 32):
Both Australia and Japan have LCC's as well as flag carrying aircraft flying those routes.

Exactly but both JL and QF are cutting some of their service to Australia and Japan
 
jfk777
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:29 am

HKG-SYD
HKG-AKL

How does NW have rights to those flights ? Cathay and Qantas would have something to say about that.
 
JFK998
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 12):
KE serves both AKL and SYD daily...

DAMN!! You beat me to it!!

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 12):
Well when you compare it to Star Alliance and Oneworld its very small. But they do serve other Australian cities.

Thats for damn sure.

Star Alliance Airlines to Australia/NZ:

Air Canada (SYD)
Air New Zealand
Asiana (SYD)
Austrian (SYD/MEL) ((will be terminated))
Singapore Airlines (SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL/PER/AKL/CHC)
Thai (MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/AKL)
United (SYD/MEL)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
One World Airlines to Australia/NZ:

British Airways (SYD)
Cathay Pacific (SYD/MEL/AKL/BNE/PER/CNS/AKL)
LAN Airlines (AKL/SYD)
Qantas Airways

--------------------------------------------------------------------

SkyTeam Airlines to Australia/NZ:

Korean Air (SYD/BNE/AKL)
 
VHVXB
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting JFK998 (Reply 35):
One World Airlines to Australia/NZ:

Not to forget JL who have also joined oneworld
 
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting JFK998 (Reply 35):
Star Alliance Airlines to Australia/NZ:

Air Canada (SYD)
Air New Zealand
Asiana (SYD)
Austrian (SYD/MEL) ((will be terminated))
Singapore Airlines (SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL/PER/AKL/CHC)
Thai (MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/AKL)
United (SYD/MEL)

You forgot:
SAA South African Airways
 
kjet12
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:23 pm

Perhaps when Air Tahiti Nui starts service to MSP, NW will be forced to compete more actively in the Australia / New Zealand market.  sarcastic 
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767er
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:30 pm

Air New Zealand flying to MSP? That's truely priceless. ORD at a long push but never MSP. There is just not the market.
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Gemuser
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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 34):
How does NW have rights to those flights ? Cathay and Qantas would have something to say about that.

NW does not have the rights, the USA does. They also have the right to nominate which of their airlines can use those rights. NW was nominated.

The USA has had those rights longer than CX has existed and Australia has rights to nominate carriers from Australia to the USA via North Asia.


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RE: Does NW Still Fly To SYD Or AKL?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting 767ER (Reply 39):
Air New Zealand flying to MSP? That's truely priceless. ORD at a long push but never MSP. There is just not the market.

?? Who ever said that? No NZ would never fly to MSP.

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