FL370
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Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:41 pm

why didn't NW order the 737/767/777 over the airbus planes. wouldn't the 767 fit the gap between the 757 and 747? i think the 777/767/737 would fit well with the rest of NW's fleet.
i know there in bancrupty, but there in need of new planes. like some to replace the DC9, and the three holer.

fl370
 
KL642
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:48 pm

The DC-10's are being replaced by the A330. I believe the DC-9's are slated for replacement by ( I believe) a regional jet that seats approximately 70 passengers. I don't know if NW has placed an order yet. I seem to be having a senior moment! That sometimers can be a real pain in the padded a**!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:06 pm

They're the launch customer for the 787 in the USA. These might help, too.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2920217

Mark

[Edited 2006-08-29 07:24:38]
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kaitak744
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
why didn't NW order the 737/767/777 over the airbus planes

Well, they never had any 737s (I think this is the only airline in the world where that is the case), so the factor of commonality wouldn't help in choosing a DC-9 replacement. They just happen to choose the A320 over the 737NG.

The 767 and the 757 came out originally as one program (their seating capacities even overlap). So, some airlines chose the 757, some the 767, some both. NWA just chose the 757. (note: they also ordered the 757-300, which fills the gap you are referring to)

They had/have DC-10s. They shopped for a replacement. They chose A330 over 777.

So, in the case of the 737 and the 777, I guess NWA simply felt the A320 and the A330 were better aircraft.

The only thing that would really make sense now is the 777-300ER.
 
columba
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
why didn't NW order the 737/767/777 over the airbus planes. wouldn't the 767 fit the gap between the 757 and 747? i think the 777/767/737 would fit well with the rest of NW's fleet.

As far as I know NW was the first US airline to operate the A320 after some little problems they had in the beginning they were quite pleased with the aircraft and orderd more so there is no need for the 737.
Before they choose the Dc 9 over the 737-200 but they operated a large 727 fleet.
Orginally they had orderd the A340 but changed that into the A330 for their transatlantic flights. The 777 would be too big for these routes.
NW always had a mix fleet earlier it was Douglas/Boeing and now it is Airbus/Boeing.
They take the aircraft suited best for their routes and this can be a Airbus or a Boeing or an old Dc 9 until there is no real replacement.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Ward86IND
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
They just happen to choose the A320 over the 737NG.

I believe NW was the US launch customer for the A320 and started taking deliveries in '88, so there was no 737NG at the time. Then when the mid 90s rolled around NW started getting the A319 and I'm sure commonality with the A320 played a large roll in that (as opposed to 737NG)
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columba
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
As far as I know NW was the first US airline to operate the A320



Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 5):
I believe NW was the US launch customer for the A320

Are you sure about NW being the launch customer ? I know that they were the first US airline to operate the A320 but I am not so sure if Pan Am was not the first airline from the US that ordered the A320.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:54 pm

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 5):
I believe NW was the US launch customer for the A320 and started taking deliveries in '88, so there was no 737NG at the time.

But, there was the B-737-300/-400/-500 (now called B-737-Classics?) available at the time.
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:09 pm

I've read that NW evaluated the 767 from time to time throughtout the 1980s but was always put off by the issue of cargo: not only less in the 767, but also a different container from their other widebodies, making transfer/connections less efficient.
 
columba
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):

But, there was the B-737-300/-400/-500 (now called B-737-Classics?) available at the time.

They had MD 80s and Dc 9 instead also the A320 was far superior over the 737 classics. That is why UA choose the A320, too and Boeing was forced to develop the 737NG.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
socal
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
That is why UA choose the A320, too and Boeing was forced to develop the 737NG.

Now NW has the option of buying far superior airframes from Boeing, and they should.
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Stitch
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
why didn't NW order the 737/767/777 over the airbus planes.

The original 767-200 was designed to replace DC-10s and L-1011s on domestic transcon and hub-to-hub routes. Why NW kept their DC-10s and did not order the 767 like UA, AA, and DL did I cannot answer.

They also kept operating their international DC-10s into the 1990s (and beyond), which is when airlines like UA, CO, DL, and AA started to order the 767-300ER and MD-11.

So by the time NW was ready to order replacements for their DC-10s, the A330 was available and was a "better plane" then the 767 for long-haul service. As noted, NW was preparing to order the A340 but the A330-200 made that unecessary. NW also had the 747-200 and 747-400 in their fleet at a time when many 747-200 customers were retiring their planes for 777-200ERs. So NW had plenty of capacity for the high-traffic routes with 747s and the A330s handled the lower-traffic routes.

NW has subsequently written the 777 into their flight crew contracts, but I do not expect NW to operate the type. More likely they will add additional A330 models in the near term and then move to the A350 in the latter half of the 2010s.

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 5):
I believe NW...started taking deliveries in '88, so there was no 737NG at the time.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
But, there was the B-737-300/-400/-500 (now called B-737-Classics?) available at the time.

As noted, the 737 Classic was not in the same league as the A320 when it came to peformance (range, hot-and-high, etc.) so the A320 was the better choice at the time NW needed/desired the first planes.
 
columba
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Socal (Reply 10):
Now NW has the option of buying far superior airframes from Boeing, and they should.

Why ? I do not see any sense in that except that some people here prefer Boeing over Airbus.
The A320 is working fine for NW. Why should they buy new planes if they have a working fleet of modern and efficient aircraft ?
The costs to replace the A320 with 737NGs would be very high and would not gain any large advantages.
Besides NW is not in the best financial shape and they concentrate on making money and not giving stupid advices to their employees before thinking of replacing a working and efficient aircraft fleet.
When they have finally solved their financial problems they should find a decent replacement for their Dc 9s before the A320s.
Although I think it is great that they still fly this great little aircrafts they can not be around forever.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
kaitak744
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
When they have finally solved their financial problems they should find a decent replacement for their Dc 9s before the A320s.

The A320 is the replacement for their DC-9s. They just haven't ordered all the A320s they need yet due to financial problems. And, at this point, it is just wiser for them to forget it all and wait for Y1 (from both Airbus and Boeing).
 
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falstaff
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
NWA just chose the 757.

NWA got some 757s from Republic too. I don't think any of the Republic 757s are still flying for NWA.
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gigneil
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Socal (Reply 10):
Now NW has the option of buying far superior airframes from Boeing, and they should.

Boeing does not have a "far superior" airframe to the A320.

Even Boeing knows that.

N
 
787engineer
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 13):
And, at this point, it is just wiser for them to forget it all and wait for Y1 (from both Airbus and Boeing).

Considering that no one knows when exactly Y1 or the A320RS will come out, (neither has been launched and thus no EIS date has been set) I think NW may order some more narrowbodies if their financial situation allows them to.
 
CXA330300
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
I think this is the only airline in the world where that is the case

Hardly. EY, AY, S7, SkyWest, aming others, have never owned 737s.
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Iflewrepublic
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:39 am

NWA did inherit several 757s from Republic. They were sold to America West, as Republic's engine choice did not match Northwest's. Northwest was always, still is, and will always be, big on STANDARDIZATION. Also, the machine is paid off, why buy a new one when it isn't necessary?

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RC135U
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
More likely they will add additional A330 models in the near term and then move to the A350 in the latter half of the 2010s.

With NW already having 787s on order, why would they go to the A350?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting RC135U (Reply 19):
With NW already having 787s on order, why would they go to the A350?

Spite? Big grin

Seriously, you are correct. I forgot NW ordered the 787 and for their traffic, it is the better fit then the A350.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 15):
Boeing does not have a "far superior" airframe to the A320.

Even Boeing knows that.

It seems that Boeing may have forgotten that, as they now say the B-737NG is the most advanced and efficent narrow body airliner built today.  Cool

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 13):
The A320 is the replacement for their DC-9s.

That may have been the original plan. But, now it seems like the crew that flys the last NW A-320 series to the scrap yard will be picked up by a NW DC-9.  bigthumbsup 
 
coiah756ca
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 2):
They're the launch customer for the 787 in the USA. These might help, too.

Yes, but we lucky fellows at CO will get our first. Me=happy!

I want to go from the 756 to 787. Hopefully I can be one of the first CO pilots to fly it.. Lucky me if I do. I will definitely bring the camera and prepare at TR!
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
 
burnsie28
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 22):

Yes, but we lucky fellows at CO will get our first. Me=happy!

NW will recieve the first 787 in North America and be the first to put it into service, so what are you talking about.


NW didn't order the 737 because at the time the A320 was the most advanced airliner, it wasn't until the 737NG came out that they matched the A320, by then NW already had a large fleet of A320's and A319's.

The 767 wasn't ordered because of its cargo capacity, it couldn't use the standard sized bins thus, limiting the bins to the 767 only.

The 777 was found to be too big and heavy for transatlantic routes, and thus NW ordered the A330, of which could take standard sized bins.
 
bnamaxx
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:02 am

Did NW actually order any DC9's of their own? I thought all they had were from the three carriers that made up Republic???
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
The original 767-200 was designed to replace DC-10s and L-1011s on domestic transcon and hub-to-hub routes. Why NW kept their DC-10s and did not order the 767 like UA, AA, and DL did I cannot answer.

Really? I was under the impression that the 777 was THE DC-10 replacement, at least for these airlines. UA and AA, I remember kept their DC-10s until 1999 or 2000, and the 777 inherited most or all DC-10 routes. The 763 and definately the 762 has way less seating and cargo capacity, IIRC.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 26):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
The original 767-200 was designed to replace DC-10s and L-1011s on domestic transcon and hub-to-hub routes. Why NW kept their DC-10s and did not order the 767 like UA, AA, and DL did I cannot answer.

Really? I was under the impression that the 777 was THE DC-10 replacement, at least for these airlines. UA and AA, I remember kept their DC-10s until 1999 or 2000, and the 777 inherited most or all DC-10 routes. The 763 and definately the 762 has way less seating and cargo capacity, IIRC.

Well, what he is referring to is probably the 767-400ER. That was meant to replace L1011s and DC-10s, especially in CO and DL.
 
centrair
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:47 am

The 777 is in the NW contract. I would not be surprised if the 773ER were introduced as a 744 replacement. It is either that or they wait and be launch customers for Y3.

Seems that the DC9s are being replaced by A320s, A319s and either CRJ (900) or ERJs (90/95).

I thought the DC-9s were from the mergers. I thought before the merger in the 1980s NW's smallest plane was the 757.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 26):
Really? I was under the impression that the 777 was THE DC-10 replacement, at least for these airlines.

For trans-oceanic operations, yes, the 777 was Boeing's replacement for the DC-10 and L-1011. However, my comment was specifically restricted to mid-con and trans-con domestic US routes, which did not require all of the capacity and range the DC-10 and the L-1011 offered, but it was the only option available to them.
 
centrair
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 28):
I thought before the merger in the 1980s NW's smallest plane was the 757.

Correction: That was suppose to be 727 not 757.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
N231YE
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
why didn't NW order the 737/767/777 over the airbus planes

NW simply got the A330 over the 777 because the A330 was cheaper. Someone mentioned the same thing about the A319/320 vs. the 737 once before on A.Net.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why No 737, 767. 777 For NW

Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 31):
NW simply got the A330 over the 777 because the A330 was cheaper

I think that has been dis-proven here on A net a number of times. The cost was only one of the many factors involved.