sk736
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Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:43 am

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It looks like all the window shades are closed - why would this be?
 
agpatel
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:45 am

To keep the heat out? Or it just got back from cleaning or service...?
-AnK
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:46 am

Shy passengers.... Big grin
 
ZakHH
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:48 am

CIA charter perhaps...?  duck 
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jetblueatjfk
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:02 am

When I flew into LGB last week they asked everyone on the left side to close their shades to keep the heat out because it was a hot day and in LGB they don't turn on the AC until after take off to get a more powerful take off. So maybe no one was on it and they were taxing it around.

B6jfk airplane 
 
FL1TPA
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:14 am

It's standard practice now at FL to ask customers to open air vents above thier seats and lower the window shades before they leave to help keep the aircraft cool. Especially while on the ground here in Hotlanta.

AA also does the same on thier flights. It's more of a fuel saving measure than for comfort. If the aircraft is parked at a gate that has external air conditioning, the apu can be shut down to conserve fuel.

FL1TPA
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
Charliejag1
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:15 am

Is there any chance that it is carrying cargo instead of passengers?
 
tbnist03
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:28 am

I wouldn't think a cargo company would spend an extravagant about of money on a livery. Even with FX, and their "Panda One" livery, it wasn't over the top, just a special decal or something on the side.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
-Mike
 
Spruit
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:36 am

Could be a delivery flight as it's still 'N' (November) registered? Just a thought!
E=Mc2
 
deltaguy767
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 7):
I wouldn't think a cargo company would spend an extravagant about of money on a livery. Even with FX, and their "Panda One" livery, it wasn't over the top, just a special decal or something on the side.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Wait, what does that have to do with the thread topic.  confused 

In terms of the shades being closed, its unlikely that it would be to keep the heat out as it seems pretty cloudy that day. As to any alternate explanation, I have none.

Cheers from BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
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joffie
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting Spruit (Reply 8):
Could be a delivery flight as it's still 'N' (November) registered? Just a thought!

Thats what I was thinking...however it is an airbus, so it would be F registered.

This looks to be the first A330 for Vietnam Airlines, cause I cannot find any info on other 330's.

I reckon it is a delivery flight for this aircraft, however I dont think it is a brand new plane.
 
ksupilot
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 3):
CIA charter perhaps...?

That is great!  Smile
 
tbnist03
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 9):
Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 7):
I wouldn't think a cargo company would spend an extravagant about of money on a livery. Even with FX, and their "Panda One" livery, it wasn't over the top, just a special decal or something on the side.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Wait, what does that have to do with the thread topic. confused



Quoting Charliejag1 (Reply 6):
Is there any chance that it is carrying cargo instead of passengers?

I guess I should have quoted the above response, but I assumed people would just draw the conclusions. Sorry.
-Mike
 
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Moose135
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Spruit (Reply 8):
Could be a delivery flight as it's still 'N' (November) registered? Just a thought!

It's on lease - registered to "CASTLE 2003-2H LLC" in Delaware.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
JAFA
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 4):
When I flew into LGB last week they asked everyone on the left side to close their shades to keep the heat out because it was a hot day and in LGB they don't turn on the AC until after take off to get a more powerful take off. So maybe no one was on it and they were taxing it around.

Shades are lowered for only one reason, to keep the aircraft cooler when parked in the sun on a hot day. We all know that aircraft cabins can get very hot when parked in the sun on hot days.
In my ten+ years as a FA, I can tell you for sure NO aircraft type I have been qualified on leaves the air off to get a more powerful takeoff.
 
Amazonphil
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>JAFA (Reply 14):
In my ten+ years as a FA, I can tell you for sure NO aircraft type I have been qualified on leaves the air off to get a more powerful takeoff.

This is actually done though on the older aircraft with the lower bypass type JT8 engines, but automatically by valves in the engine...something like the 13 stage valve on the compressor section of the engine where the airconditioning gets the air for compression and airconditioning. When the throttles go forward the airconditioning does get put on hold for awhile until the takeoff sequence has finished.
As far as the newer aircraft with the higher bypass Stage III type engines, this happens a little differently and the a/c continues to operate as the aircraft are equipped with an Air Cycle machine system. To complicate to explain though.

[Edited 2006-08-30 05:40:22]

[Edited 2006-08-30 05:44:21]
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
Vref5
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>JAFA (Reply 14):
In my ten+ years as a FA, I can tell you for sure NO aircraft type I have been qualified on leaves the air off to get a more powerful takeoff.

Perhaps he was thinking of operators that turns off some of the air packs (but not all, for passenger comfort) for engine start.

For instance, the B747-400 has three air packs, and you can turn two of them off for engine start and even left off for takeoff, and then turn them on after takeoff and gear+flap retraction.

Some operators do this; some don't. It's an optional procedure. Some operators may elect to turn off some packs for engine start but turn all back on prior to takeoff.

Don't know of an operator where it's SOP to turn all packs off, though.

Not as familiar with aircraft other than the 744.
 
727forever
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 15):
This is actually done though on the older aircraft with the lower bypass type JT8 engines, but automatically by valves in the engine...something like the 13 stage valve on the compressor section of the engine where the airconditioning gets the air for compression and airconditioning. When the throttles go forward the airconditioning does get put on hold for awhile until the takeoff sequence has finished.
As far as the newer aircraft with the higher bypass Stage III type engines, this happens a little differently and the a/c continues to operate as the aircraft are equipped with an Air Cycle machine system. To complicate to explain though.

This is kind of true. The 13th stage bleeds do close when the thrust is advanced for takeoff. The 13th stage air is only used for a/c and pressurization to supplement the relatively low pressure coming from the 8th stage while at low thrust on the ground. Once the engines spool the pressure comes up and the 13th stage is no longer needed. The 8th stage still provides bleed air for pressurization unless you physically close them for enhanced performance, however this is not normal practice.

Years ago I flew the BAe-3200 and we would take off unpressurized in them. Those things were so underpowered that if you lost an engine with the packs on the bleed would rob too much power and kill your ability to climb on one engine. Also, in the CRJ if you have the engine or wing anti-ice on the bleed would be too much for the 10th stage to also be provided for the packs. So, the procedure is to close the 10th stage bleeds and pressurize off of the APU until after flap retraction.

727forever
727forever
 
Amazonphil
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting 727forever (Reply 17):
This is kind of true. The 13th stage bleeds do close when the thrust is advanced for takeoff. The 13th stage air is only used for a/c and pressurization to supplement the relatively low pressure coming from the 8th stage while at low thrust on the ground. Once the engines spool the pressure comes up and the 13th stage is no longer needed. The 8th stage still provides bleed air for pressurization unless you physically close them for enhanced performance, however this is not normal practice.

Years ago I flew the BAe-3200 and we would take off unpressurized in them. Those things were so underpowered that if you lost an engine with the packs on the bleed would rob too much power and kill your ability to climb on one engine. Also, in the CRJ if you have the engine or wing anti-ice on the bleed would be too much for the 10th stage to also be provided for the packs. So, the procedure is to close the 10th stage bleeds and pressurize off of the APU until after flap retraction.

727forever

I knew it was something like that but not having worked on a 727,DC-9,etc. in years, I've forgot some of it, like the 8th stage section. I knew that the pressurization part doesn't stop unless you REALLY spool them up! Like a single engine go around.
Thanks for the refresher!

Not familiar at all with the BAE and the CRJ.


CHeers!
amazonphil
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
727forever
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:16 pm

No sweat. I tend to remember mundane details like this.

Take care.

727forever
727forever
 
Amazonphil
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:18 pm

the 727-200Adv is my all time favorite airliner by the way!

Nothing classier in the sky!
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
TimePilot
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 4):
When I flew into LGB last week they asked everyone on the left side to close their shades to keep the heat out ...

I had the same thing in Boston when I got in on 8.4. It was 100? out that day, and on top of that we were 10 minutes early so we sat on the apron waiting for a gate to open, with all the shades down.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:03 pm

Quoting SK736 (Thread starter):
It looks like all the window shades are closed - why would this be?

It's the newest addition to VN's fleet (ex CS-TQF). It hasn't been delivered yet. It just came out of the paintshop at ZRH.
see also: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2961503/
 
bluewhale18210
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:12 pm

Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 15):
As far as the newer aircraft with the higher bypass Stage III type engines, this happens a little differently and the a/c continues to operate as the aircraft are equipped with an Air Cycle machine system. To complicate to explain though.

I've run into instances where B744 had to do this to use MAX T/O on a shorter runway. PW4060s.

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 16):
Don't know of an operator where it's SOP to turn all packs off, though.

Not as familiar with aircraft other than the 744.

At least not with CI. Once we had a full load (872,000lbs, MAX T/O) and LAX's RWY 25R was closed. We had to use 25L to takeoff and the tradeoff for the 1,000ft differences was 5,000lbs in takeoff weight. (867,000lbs MAX). Instead of offloading 5,000lbs of PAX bags (which will drive everyone insane), operations came up with the runway analysis for A/C pack off operation and it was something close to 872,000lbs T/O on 11,000ft of RWY, and the Captain accepted it. That's the only instances where I know we turn off A/C for takeoff.
JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
 
i530j
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:58 pm

Northwest does that with DC-9's on both flights they asked us to close the shades on both sides because the plane gets really hot they say.

Cheers,
JK
"I love you, I love the kids..." then the phone went dead.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>JAFA (Reply 14):
In my ten+ years as a FA, I can tell you for sure NO aircraft type I have been qualified on leaves the air off to get a more powerful takeoff.

And as an f/a you are qualified to fly it ???.

If you look in the performance manuals for take off, they will quote speeds and power settings to be used with packs off. All a/c types have these figures quoted, although they might not necessarily be used depending on the routes the a/c operates. Next time you are onboard, ask the skipper to show you. You can normally tell when they turned the packs off as there is a distinct change in the sound and the power of the air coming out of the vents, then after take off once they are at a safe airspeed and altitude, they turn them back on when you again hear the change in sound.

Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>JAFA (Reply 14):
Shades are lowered for only one reason, to keep the aircraft cooler when parked in the sun on a hot day.

Actually they are lowered for 2 reasons. One as you say to keep the a/c cool, the other is to protect the interior from sunlight damage when a/c are parked on the ground for extended periods of time. You often see this on private jets.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
HBJZA
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:17 am

I can assure everyone that it's everything but keeping the hot out ! We're having a very very bad and cold summer in Switzerland. At least since the beginning of August.
 
oldtimer
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting 727forever

Whats a BAe3200?

Thanks
Oldtimer
Oldtimer, I should have known better!
 
727forever
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:51 am

727forever
 
NZ560
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:21 pm

And here she is the next day:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Propfreak



And still with all the shades pulled down.
-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
 
oldtimer
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:31 pm

Thanks 727forever, having worked at BAe during the 80's and 90's I had never heard it called the 3200 (see below), I assume you mean the 32EP. Never worked on or was involved with them myself. My only experience was a flt from Dotham to ATL late eighties and an engine failure on #2 at approx 2500'.

"The Jetstream 31 and the Jetstream 32EP are 19-seat turboprop airliners in operation worldwide. The Jetstream 31 entered service in 1982 and the increased power Jetstream 32 in 1988. BAE Systems completed an upgrade programme for the Jetstream 32 resulting in the Jetstream 32EP (enhanced performance) aircraft, certificated in 1997, which has short field capability and hot and high operational performance. Over 400 Jetstream 31/32 aircraft have been delivered"

Thanks
Oldtimer
Oldtimer, I should have known better!
 
stirling
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RE: Why Are All The Shades Closed?

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Joffie (Reply 10):
I dont think it is a brand new plane.

I think it is one of the early builds.
As far as I can tell, this aircraft has also been with Air Luxor and LTU.

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 22):
It hasn't been delivered yet. It just came out of the paintshop at ZRH.

Perfectly good explanation for the down shades.
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