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eksath
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Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:53 pm

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...a9dd60-18a9-4155-a6bb-8a8e8976bc04

Quote:"Pilot locked out of cockpit after bathroom break

Mike Edgell
Global National

Wednesday, August 30, 2006

WINNIPEG - An Air Canada pilot who left the flight deck to visit the washroom found himself locked out of the cockpit when he tried to return -- forcing the crew to remove the door from its hinges.

It happened aboard an Air Canada Jazz flight on Saturday, and the company confirmed to Global National yesterday it is conducting an internal investigation into the incident that took place on the Bombardier CRJ-100 carrying as many as 50 passengers from Ottawa to Winnipeg."
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jamesbuk
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:12 pm

so like was the other pilot too lazy to open the door or something?

Rgds --James--
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itsjustme
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:16 pm

Better than being locked in the bathroom, I guess.
 
macc
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:18 pm

now, thats interesting...
where was the other pilot?
plane flying on autopilot with no one in cockpit?
how did they force the door from the hinges? thought thats what shouldnt be possible?

must have been a comfortable flight for the 50 pax. seeing the pilot struggle to get back to his place...
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
so like was the other pilot too lazy to open the door or something?



Quoting Macc (Reply 3):
where was the other pilot?
plane flying on autopilot with no one in cockpit?

Dont the rules state that at least one pilot should always be sat at the controls during a flight, with no exceptions?

Thats probably why they had to take the doors off the hinges, the PF wasnt allowed to leave the controls.

Fairly extreme case, but still, rules are rules.
 
jamesjoyce
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:46 pm

Quoting Eksath (Thread starter):
WINNIPEG - An Air Canada pilot who left the flight deck to visit the washroom found himself locked out of the cockpit when he tried to return -- forcing the crew to remove the door from its hinges.

Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.
 
Spruit
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:48 pm

Sounds like more media sensationalism to me!

But hey it's not like we're not all used to that is it!

Spru!
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FlyingColours
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:57 pm

The door probably jammed shut. Had a good few sticky doors already.

I don't think the hinges can be removed inflight with any ease. Its the media so take it with a 777F full of salt.

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 5):
Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.

Hahaha  Smile I've said for ages now that the FD should have its own Lavatory, heck if you put an oven and a chiller in there too there would never be a reason to go in during normal ops  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours
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itsjustme
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting Macc (Reply 3):
must have been a comfortable flight for the 50 pax. seeing the pilot struggle to get back to his place...

Sounds like scene right out of "Airplane!"
 
mdaigle
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:16 pm

There was a FA in the cockpit with the co-pilot, so he/she may have popped the hinges from inside the cockpit. I don't know the design of the door, but the hinges may be accessible from the cockpit side.

Michel
 
yow
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Mdaigle (Reply 9):
There was a FA in the cockpit with the co-pilot, so he/she may have popped the hinges from inside the cockpit. I don't know the design of the door, but the hinges may be accessible from the cockpit side.

Michel

Yup, when one of the pilots is using the lav, an F/A must be in the cockpit (except in 3-person crewed cockpits which are almost non-existent nowadays).
 
AirRyan
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 5):
Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.

Wow, a pisser in an RJ is damn near one up on the LittleJohn as it is!
 
roseflyer
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 7):
The door probably jammed shut. Had a good few sticky doors already.

The door probably failed somehow and would not open. So the pilot probably was essentially locked out. Mechanisms can fail. I'm a guessing that they needed a bit of engenuity to get back in the cockpit.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:42 pm

This for me was the interesting quote:

Eventually, the crew forced the door open by taking the door off its hinges completely



A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
gh123
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:42 pm

Maybe one of pilots was a woman!?!?!

What a farce!
 
yow
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 13):
A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?

Having both pilots at the flight deck for landing is a lot less risky than having a secure cockpit door.

The cockpit doors aren't designed to be break-open proof, but rather open-proof for 1/2 hr to 1 hr, which is almost always long enough for a crew to divert to avert a highjacking attempt.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting YOW (Reply 15):
but rather open-proof for 1/2 hr to 1 hr

Ahh. OK.

Hoorah for the cabin crew.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
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VIflyer
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 13):
This for me was the interesting quote:


Eventually, the crew forced the door open by taking the door off its hinges completely


A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?

Also the door can only be taken off the hinges easily from the inside the cockpit (without power tools and about, as said earlier, a couple of hours of free time). It's a escape feature if the escape hatch is inoperative during a accident.

Vi
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iairallie
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:03 am

You allways have to have 2 people in the cockpit so the fa was up there. They probably accessed the hinges from the inside of the cockpit. They are designed to be difficult to break into not out of.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:27 am

"There's sloppiness, there's inconsistency, and there are vulnerabilities that terrorists are going to notice, and they're going to see it and say this is easy pickings."



What a bunch of horse sh:t. The media is trying to say that Air Canada is sloppy and therefor giving terrorists ideas. The only one I see giving terrorists ideas is who ever wrote this article. It was a nonevent. It is not news worthy. Yes the people on airliners.net find it interesting but to the public at large no one cares. The Media needs to stop this sensationalistic bullsh;t!!
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
aircanl1011
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:02 am

The pilot "can be taken hostage by someone in the plane with hostile intent," said Peter St. John, a Winnipeg-based security analyst.

Couldn't someone with "hostile intent" take the pilot hostage when he is on his way to the lav under normal conditions.

This is a guy who lives with doubt and suspicion all his life and can find a problem waiting to happen with any situation. These guys need to sit down and shut up. They are the terrorists best weapon because they spread fear where there is no need for it.

Peter St. John you are as bad a any terrorist!!!!
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727forever
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:15 am

The new security cockpit door on the CRJ does have issues with getting stuck from time to time. Usually just give it a good bump and it will become dislodged. If not, there are pins on the inside that will allow it to be removed from the hinges. It is also quite easy to put the door back on the hinges. All CRJ pilots have been trained on this. The pilot still in the cockpit just had to show the FA how to do it to get the door open.

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. You'd think the media has more important stuff to report but this is pick on the airlines week.

727forever
727forever
 
aeroman444
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:49 am

All you need is half a tennis ball to get in there anyway.  Smile
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:28 am

Boy, it's a good thing the FO didn't have to land the airplane.... idiot media.

As has been stated before, the hinge release mechanisms are inside the cockpit. I believe instead this proves how sturdy the cockpit door is in the event of an attempted cockpit intrusion. This gives the crew plenty of time to go to full lock down... and in the event they finally do get into the cockpit they will get a nice welcome of a crash axe, gun, or both.  Smile Anyone who attempts to break into a cockpit that is not welcome has forfeited their life.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
aeroplan73
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 20):
Couldn't someone with "hostile intent" take the pilot hostage when he is on his way to the lav under normal conditions.

If I was on a flight to Winnipeg, I'd be hostile too.  duck 
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
so like was the other pilot too lazy to open the door or something?

How did you come to such a conclusion?  Confused
 
Skyslave
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plan

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):

The rules state that if a pilot of a 2 crew aircraft has to leave the controls for any reason, the other pilot has to wear his quick donning oxygen mask until the other pilot returns.



[Edited 2006-08-30 23:03:45]
 
CrossChecked
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 13):
A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?

Good point. Everyone, keep your eyes open for invisible terrorists.
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
jamesbuk
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 25):
How did you come to such a conclusion?

Well why didnt they open the door from the inside? also all aircrafts ive been on have a little security code to the right of the door, why didnt he use that?

rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
MSPCRJ200
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:54 am

Big version: Width: 340 Height: 251 File size: 42kb
 
ewmahle
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 5):
Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.

This would almost work, but wait, TSA does not allow bottled liquids on board the aircraft.  talktothehand 
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 28):
Well why didnt they open the door from the inside? also all aircrafts ive been on have a little security code to the right of the door, why didnt he use that?

Oh, come on....obviously the door would not have been operable from both sides.....do you seriously think that a pilot and FA inside the cockpit would both sit around and do nothing in such a situation????
 
billreid
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:15 am

Did someone say the acft was going to

Winterpeg?
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YWG
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 32):
Did someone say the acft was going to

Winterpeg?

LOL, it's not winter here just yet....

METAR CYWG 302200Z 14020G26KT 15SM FEW180 SCT270 BKN300 27/14 A2988
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:33 am

Was just there last weekend... not a bad place  Smile Grapes has some great chicken wings. The girls in canada... well... oh yes. It's what it's all aboot.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
greasespot
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 7):
I don't think the hinges can be removed inflight with any ease. Its the media so take it with a 777F full of salt.



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 13):
A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?

Hinges on INSIDE of door.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 23):
nice welcome of a crash axe, gun, or both.

Canada...No guns in the cockpit, which is a good thing

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 28):
Well why didnt they open the door from the inside? also all aircrafts ive been on have a little security code to the right of the door, why didnt he use that?

There is a switch which disables the key pad during flight. I mean having a pilot go to the bathroom with a code in his head is as good as not having a door...I mean all a terrorist would have to do is get the pilot on the way to the john and torture the code from him.... I suspect that part of the problem is they could not dis-arm the door and therfore no open it...or the latch was jammed making the keypad usless as it may be unlocked but the latch did not retract.

These doors have a lot of monkey motion going on in them. I am supprised this is the first time it has happened.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
YWG
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 34):
Was just there last weekend... not a bad place Grapes has some great chicken wings. The girls in canada... well... oh yes. It's what it's all aboot.

It's why I love living it Winnipeg my man, it often brings a tear to my eye.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 35):
Canada...No guns in the cockpit, which is a good thing

Incorrect. A firearm is a considerable added safety measure. The ability to successfully deliver a fatal blow to an intruder may be a bit difficult. I'd rather be able to point and click. Any bullet holes in the fusalage will not cause any disruption in pressurization or vital functions, whereas a bullet hole in the terrorist will disrupt their vital functions. Many US planes fly into canada each day with weapons on board.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 35):
There is a switch which disables the key pad during flight. I mean having a pilot go to the bathroom with a code in his head is as good as not having a door

This is not the case on the CRJ. We do not have keypad entry. For security reasons, I won't go into details, but you would have to have unhuman strength to somehow get through that thing. And if you do get through, see my previous comments (minus the firearm welcome on Canadian aircraft).



We had a ramper in YWG steal a rum from our plane the other night as well as the Airbus.. hopefully he had a good time because NWA is ticked!
Chicks dig winglets.
 
CF188A
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:01 am

a little unfortunate some generalizing is going on here .... towards one of the best if not the best airline in the world. Or wait, could it possibly be against the CANADA air regional jet? what a surprise that would be. For the record Air Canada has tight measures on their aircraft. Who knows whats happened on the aircraft. Perhaps they had to break the door open. We weren't there, and the media is not very reliable. If I remember correctly when AF 358 had its wreck here in Toronto, LOL, the MEDIA, reported it being a Lufthansa 747. Then an AVIATION professional came on and said it was the Airbus A340-600. The largest jumbo jet in the world! ... i thought i was watching a stand up ... lol. It also does not state how long they were trying to get it open for. SO obviously they could have landed if it was a forced cockpit intrusion. hmmmmmmm

[Edited 2006-08-31 03:04:29]
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greasespot
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 37):
ncorrect. A firearm is a considerable added safety measure.

Your opinion....not mine. I trust the door to keep people out..

Heck in this case it kept the pilot out.....Not to discount the fact that all passengers are no longer sheep and will go after the guy trying to bust a door open...  wink 

Ummm notice the Canadian flag...Talking about canadian registererd aircraft....Pilots are not armed here....


Mostly just extrapolating my B737 and B727 and ATR knowledge to all aircraft...
however our ATR's use the same door as the CRJ....and has a keypad... maybe the keypad is an option.


GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
usair320
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting YOW (Reply 10):
(except in 3-person crewed cockpits which are almost non-existent nowadays).

Not exactly. On Trans-atlantics and Trans-pacifics the FD is equipped with a Capt. F/O and F/O(internatinal officer) the IO flies during either of the pilots break periods.
 
cusaeng
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Mdaigle (Reply 9):
There was a FA in the cockpit with the co-pilot

and the door got locked on the fo way out .... sure it did  Wink mile high club anyone ?
I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
 
comairguycvg
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
Thats probably why they had to take the doors off the hinges, the PF wasnt allowed to leave the controls

But in the CRJ aircraft, the pilots seats are close enough to the cockpit door that the pilot can stay in the seat and turn around to open the door without having to get up.
Worked at: CV62, RJTA, KNLC, CV63, KNFL, OKAJ, KTRI, CV67, KMGE, KNQX, KVPS, KPIT, KCVG, KTYS, KATL
 
Flyboy14295
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Cusaeng (Reply 41):
Quoting Mdaigle (Reply 9):
There was a FA in the cockpit with the co-pilot

and the door got locked on the fo way out .... sure it did Wink mile high club anyone ?

What If the FA was a man  Wink
Greetings from New York. "Take It to the limit." -Eagles
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 23):
Anyone who attempts to break into a cockpit that is not welcome has forfeited their life.

After 9/11, do you think the passengers will ever allow anyone to overtake an airplane again? If the door can hold up half an hour, that's plenty of time, in my opinion, for a cabin full of passengers to subdue a small group of hostile individuals.

It would be interesting to know for certain if the door was opened from the inside or the outside.

I don't think a 9/11 style attack, where planes are taken over to be used as weapons will ever happen again. What allowed it to happen is that no one expected it.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:42 am

Since the door was taken off it's hinges, that means that the door was opened from inside the cockpit.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:38 pm

It amazes me that people blame the media for sensationlizing when they read articles or watch the television with the attention span of a four-year old with ADHD hopped up on a chocolate fix and with a predestined bias.

In this case, fourth paragraph down it clearly says there was another pilot and f/a in the cockpit. The fact that this incident showcased potential security and/or safety issues is in fact, newsworthy.

Here is another headline: if you are so anti-media, just don't read the article or watch the television. By your participation, you only feed the beast you so loathe.

Now, back to the rest of the story: another pilot and f/a in the cockpit or not, if I was one of those pax I'd be wanting a double Jack Daniels after we landed.
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
positiverate
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:30 am

The bigger issue here is the nightmare of sitting on a CRJ for almost 1100 miles!
 
B742
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:46 am

BBC Story here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5301172.stm

Glad to hear the crew and passengers are ok  Smile

Rob!  wave 
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane

Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 48):
BBC Story here:

Its nice to see that someone can report the news in a factual matter without all the hype.

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 46):
Here is another headline: if you are so anti-media, just don't read the article or watch the television. By your participation, you only feed the beast you so loathe.

I am not feeding the beast, the beast is feeding on the ignorance of others. doing so to increase its ratings without thought to the moral consequences of getting the ignorant population in a panic.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!

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