777way
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Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:28 am

Link mentions plans for service to Iran and Japan too http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+fleet+with+Russian+airliners.html

Pyongyang is served by China Southern Airlines 733 from Beijing which the article dosent say.
 
ehho
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:37 am

If they will pay, why not sell them some A320s and A330s? I know they have US parts, but I'm not sure US has an embargo on the DPRK.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
MichiganMAN
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting 777way (Thread starter):
Link mentions plans for service to Iran and Japan too http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles....html

cute.............although I thought a higher priority should be made to feed their people.
UK -> USA
 
Robbie86
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 1):
If they will pay, why not sell them some A320s and A330s? I know they have US parts, but I'm not sure US has an embargo on the DPRK.

To be political correct the will most likely buy some Russian made aircraft
 
KL808
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:08 am

How about some TU-204-300's.


Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:12 am

They will buy Chinese made aircraft. They aren't in love with the Russians either.

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis
 
roseflyer
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 1):
If they will pay, why not sell them some A320s and A330s? I know they have US parts, but I'm not sure US has an embargo on the DPRK.

No Airbus cannot sell planes to North Korea. There are sanctions and a trade embargo in place from the United States. There are significant parts on Airbus planes that are made by American companies. There is no way that Airbus can build a plane and sell it to North Korea. The US suppliers will not cooperate. The only options are non westernized versions of the Tu204 and IL-96 like the article says.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 1):
If they will pay, why not sell them some A320s and A330s? I know they have US parts, but I'm not sure US has an embargo on the DPRK.

pay with what exactly???? perhaps they have enough western currency after selling Iran some nuclear weapons
 
Skip17
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 2):
cute.............although I thought a higher priority should be made to feed their people

Haha thank you! I was waiting for this point to be made.

What about Embraer? They could be ideal for the flights to Japan. Does Embraer use American parts as well?
 
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BO__einG
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:11 am

I say for all countries Do Not sell any aircraft to North Korea.
Neglecting their citizens of basic needs and selfishly pursuing Nuclear Ambitions and threatening other countries despite numerous attempts and warnings for them to stop.
They just don't get it.

Maybe buying scrapped planes in Iran might work.
Otherwise let them continue to fly with their current fleet until the government smartens up. If they break down, oh well. Go by rail.
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
777fan
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:42 am

I think their desire to establish flights to/from Iran says enough. What's next, an AN-224 to shuttle fully assembled missiles and nuclear reactors to and fro?!

North Korea is an absolute joke and it's amazing that they haven't had any problems with their existing fleet given its age and the fact that practically everything North Korea touches either defaults, breaks down or becomes belligerant. Then again, even if one of their aircraft were involved in an accident, would anyone even hear about it given their reclusiveness?!

Anyone willing to deal with North Korea has to do so with the assumption that they'll never actually pay for what they order. Good riddance.


777fan
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777way
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 9):
threatening other countries despite numerous attempts and warnings for them to stop

Who are they threatening, the US? other than the US only Japan may be bothered the rest are all playing a diplomatic drama the condemnation of North Korea's nuke pursuit is all a facade.

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 2):
cute.............although I thought a higher priority should be made to feed their people.



Quoting BO__einG (Reply 9):
Neglecting their citizens of basic needs

Running an airline has nothing to do with other domestic social issues, that way Ethiopian shouldnt even think of flying let alone buying new planes.
 
kaitak
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:55 am

You know, 777fan, that was something that caught my eye too. I can think of quite a few intelligence agencies that would love to see a cargo manifest for these flights!

Wearing my aircraft enthusiast's hat, I say, "great, Air Koryo IL-96s - wow!", but I agree with your sentiments and what surprised me is that the airline is looking to add more flights (apart from Iran!); surely the big obstacle to their ability to do this is the North Korean govt itself, which is very miserly with visas and often shuts the country off to foreigners completely.

Where will they go next? AVOD, PTVs, a Business Class service, an FFP ...
 
777way
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:57 am

They do have Business Class according to OAG and inflight Duty Free Sales.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
Running an airline has nothing to do with other domestic social issues, that way Ethiopian shouldnt even think of flying let alone buying new planes.

Thing is, as a successful carrier with strong growth prospects, Ethiopian probably does more for its country than would taking the same money and spending it all on food aid.

The key to successful development is building a sustainable industrial and commercial base, and Ethiopian does just that.

Aaron G.
 
ualcsr
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 10):
I think their desire to establish flights to/from Iran says enough. What's next, an AN-224 to shuttle fully assembled missiles and nuclear reactors to and fro?!

Flights to Caracas can't be far behind!!
 
JRadier
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 2):
cute.............although I thought a higher priority should be made to feed their people.

and to be payed with what? these services might just be the thing that brings more tourists (and thus solid curency) into North Korea.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
afay1
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:29 am

I wonder how much the loss of an IL62 this week has to do with this?
 
777fan
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What To Do When Your Airline Goes Belly Up (Varig)

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
Who are they threatening, the US? other than the US only Japan may be bothered the rest are all playing a diplomatic drama the condemnation of North Korea's nuke pursuit is all a facade.

What are you talking about?! North Korea's behavior threatens everyone! The proliferation of weapons to rogue states such as Iran and Syria is not "drama", nor is the DPRK's counterfeiting of US currency, mass production and export of narcotics, etc...

http://opioids.com/korea/

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 12):
You know, 777fan, that was something that caught my eye too. I can think of quite a few intelligence agencies that would love to see a cargo manifest for these flights!

Yeah, no doubt. They've been caught running drugs to practically all of Asia and even Australia on ships. I can't imagine what they ship on their aircraft. As they say, "when it absolutely, positively needs to get there overnight."

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 17):
I wonder how much the loss of an IL62 this week has to do with this?

Huh?


Just in case you need to see how badly the DPRK needs new aircraft (you won't need to understand Korean to understand what's going on):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITBqRSMBWaM

777fan

[Edited 2006-08-31 00:06:44]
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Avatordon
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:25 am

I'm sure they could get a surplus aircraft from JAL or ANA...for a steal Big grin
 
roseflyer
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Skip17 (Reply 8):
What about Embraer? They could be ideal for the flights to Japan. Does Embraer use American parts as well?

No Embraer and Bombardier planes have just as much American content as Airbus planes do. For example the whole electrical system on the ERJ-170 series is made in America. It's kind of hard not to fly without a cockpit or electricity.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
greasespot
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Skip17 (Reply 8):
What about Embraer? They could be ideal for the flights to Japan. Does Embraer use American parts as well?

Plus the two largest components are American.....GE engines....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
afay1
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:50 am

 
777fan
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 22):
777Fan, u think I just made it up?

No, not at all, I'm just wondering what the real source of that is seeing as how nobody was credited with writing the article. I'd be shocked to see even Russian companies take the chance on a DPRK business deal seeing as how they're notorious for screwing everyone over by not paying.


777fan
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afay1
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:21 am

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?...a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618386667

I understand the scepticism. The British Foreign Office is confirming a IL-62 crash-landing, but not at Pyongyang, rather at an airport enroute...
 
warreng24
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:02 am

I'm sure that they can find lots of 727-200 Advances on the market as well as some DC-8-7X series.

I'm sure those can be sold to DPRK with zero embargo problems.

I'm pretty sure that countries on the "Axis of Evil" don't need to conform to those stupid Stage III noise requirements.  duck 
 
777fan
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 24):
I understand the scepticism. The British Foreign Office is confirming a IL-62 crash-landing, but not at Pyongyang, rather at an airport enroute...

Just goes to show how reclusive the DPRK actually is! I'm surprised that nobody (to include here on anet) picked up on the story. One less Soviet relic out there...


777fan
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roseflyer
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 25):
I'm sure that they can find lots of 727-200 Advances on the market as well as some DC-8-7X series.

I'm sure those can be sold to DPRK with zero embargo problems.

Nope they can't. US trade embargoes limit products that were produced in the United States. It is possible they could smuggle or at least purchase them off of a country with good relations to North Korea and that doesn't mind pissing off the United States like Venezuela, but that is still against US trade policies and could cause sanctions on whatever country sold the used planes to North Korea. Additionally, there will be no support for those planes. Everything needs to be overhauled, and there is no support equipment available.

That brings the question of how does Iranair maintain its fleet of western planes, but there are clauses about how continued support for products sold before the embargo or sanctions were put in place can occur. Iranair can purchase parts for its planes from US manufacturers. However this would not be the case for North Korea. Their only option is certain versions of the Tu-204 or IL-96 or used planes in Russia. Bombardier, Boeing, Airbus and Embraer are all not possible.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
manni
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:41 am

What's with all the speculation? Did anyone even bother reading the article or did you all went straight into bashing mode...  Yeah sure

"North Korea is looking to acquire new Russian airliners to replace ageing Soviet-era types in service with the republic's only airline, Air Koryo.

Russian sources say North Korea is seeking Ilyushin Il-96 long-range widebodies and Tupolev Tu-204 narowbodies,"

"Russia's principal lessor Ilyushin-Finance (IFC) says it is interested in supplying Il-96s and Tu-204s to North Korea on standard 15-year financial lease terms"

Good for Air Koryo!
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
greasespot
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 27):
That brings the question of how does Iranair maintain its fleet of western planes,

They have an unlimited oil wealth and can pretty much make any part they cannot buy....I am serious...There was an article on it and what they build is amazing when required...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
b6sea
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:56 am

I don't really see why Air Koryo needs aircraft at all anymore? If the people can't fly anywhere, then what's being put in the seats? Also, who's going to North Korea in the place of Koreans filling the seats? Tourism isn't that popular in the North is it?

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
Who are they threatening, the US? other than the US only Japan may be bothered the rest are all playing a diplomatic drama the condemnation of North Korea's nuke pursuit is all a facade.

Yeah, you know... only the world's first and third largest economic powers right? Who cares about those bunch of loosers??? The global economy, Paaaahhhh who needs it? See the point? - The annihilation of Japan is in no one's best interest. Remember what happened when they had a simple recession, oh say 6 years ago??? It may be a "facade" as you say, but if those nukes were to be used then I'd like to see France and Germany's reformed socialism work with no one paying into it a la the US' Social Security.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to put some perspective on the issue. Morale - No country that routinely tests shooting nuclear capable missles over Japan is a friend of the rest of the world.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 27):
United States like Venezuela, but that is still against US trade policies and could cause sanctions on whatever country sold the used planes to North Korea.

Unfortunately, Chavez would be more than happy to cooperate in an embargo with the US. Oil would be the reason there wouldn't be any sanctions - we need it and they supply it. Venezuela can do almost whatever they want and we can't say much about it short of it affecting the rest of the world. Iraq kind of ruined our unilateral credibility.

-Chans
 
bennett123
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am

Nuclear capable missilies?
 
usair320
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Skip17 (Reply 8):
Does Embraer use American parts as well?

EMB and Bombardier are out of the question. So were looking at Chinese Planes.
 
manni
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 32):
So were looking at Chinese Planes.

No we're not.

Quoting Manni (Reply 28):

"North Korea is looking to acquire new Russian airliners to replace ageing Soviet-era types in service with the republic's only airline, Air Koryo.

Russian sources say North Korea is seeking Ilyushin Il-96 long-range widebodies and Tupolev Tu-204 narowbodies,"

"Russia's principal lessor Ilyushin-Finance (IFC) says it is interested in supplying Il-96s and Tu-204s to North Korea on standard 15-year financial lease terms"
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vincewy
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 23):
No, not at all, I'm just wondering what the real source of that is seeing as how nobody was credited with writing the article. I'd be shocked to see even Russian companies take the chance on a DPRK business deal seeing as how they're notorious for screwing everyone over by not paying.

Sweden was burned by North Korea over Volvo deal, remember Sweden is one of the first Western nations to set up embassy in Pyongyang, the reason? Chasing the bad debt!

Unless Russia feels generous by giving away planes, well, at least another livery for IL-96
 
n844aa
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 34):
Unless Russia feels generous by giving away planes, well, at least another livery for IL-96

Don't worry, I'm sure Pyongyang has suitcases full of reasonably convincing US$100 bills ready to go.

[Edited 2006-08-31 04:30:43]
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
777fan
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 28):
Good for Air Koryo!

Sure, I suppose. I think people in this thread are really wondering why they need new aircraft (particularly a widebody such as the Il-96) when very few people travel to/from there. As was stated, perhaps the government (regime) ought to consider more viable investments that would promote an increased standard of living to the larger populace.


777fan
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Carpethead
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:10 pm

Air Koryo should check out any airport in this CIS and if they can pay for maintenance & fuel on a say Tu-134 or Tu-154, more power to them. Of course, they will probably pay in foreign currency that was probably laundered or perhaps a direct barter with heroin.
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):

Running an airline has nothing to do with other domestic social issues, that way Ethiopian shouldnt even think of flying let alone buying new planes.

It DOES if that airline, the only airline, by the way, is owned and funded by the government - the same government that sacrifices its people for military "might"
320 717 722 732 733 735 737 738 744 752 753 763 772 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 ERJ CRJ CR7
 
manni
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 36):
I think people in this thread are really wondering why they need new aircraft

When their old aircraft start falling out of the sky, people will blame the North Koreans for not investing in newer, more reliable material. They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, it seems.

Those people that wonder why the North Koreans need new aircraft are probably the first to demand a compensation from an airline when their seats doesn't recline as it supposed to be, or complaining in multiple topics on airliners.net why they dont get a full can of coke on AA, meanwhile ripping the 'chance for good' enveloppes apart.

What makes you think that the North Koreans do not have the right to fly on new aircraft? Are you comfortable sleeping at night in a warm bed, when thousands of beggars all over the US sleep under bridges?

Quoting 777fan (Reply 36):
when very few people travel to/from there.

Those very few people travelling to North Korea have probably very good reason to do so. It might contribute to the welfare of the population. Take away the few services North Korea has with the rest of the world and you might take away those few investors, missionarys etc.

FWIW Mr. Kim is afraid of flying. These aircraft will not be bought for the purpose of flying him around.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 36):
As was stated, perhaps the government (regime) ought to consider more viable investments that would promote an increased standard of living to the larger populace.

As I said before, damned if they do, damned if they dont. We're talking a dozen or less aircraft for a country with a population of 20 million. Apart from providing a link with other cities and expanding their tiny network, a fleet increase will benefit the few people empoyed in the aviation industry aswell, as it creates more work, increasing tourism and creating more jobs.

Have you ever been to India? There's a multiple amount of beggars living on the streets of those in North Korea, yet they've managed to order about 350 aircraft in the last few years... No questions asked.
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MEABeirut
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 27):
US trade embargoes limit products that were produced in the United States

Considering Boeing's involvement in the RRJ program, is there any possibility that they may order those? They would look stunning in the Air Koryo c/s!

-Tim
Oil isn't everything...
 
777fan
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 39):
Those very few people travelling to North Korea have probably very good reason to do so. It might contribute to the welfare of the population. Take away the few services North Korea has with the rest of the world and you might take away those few investors, missionarys etc.

FWIW Mr. Kim is afraid of flying. These aircraft will not be bought for the purpose of flying him around.

Are you serious?! With the exception of foreign governments and a smattering of South Korean companies, who invests in North Korea?! Missionaries?! North Korea arrests missionaries because they fear that the story of what's really going on in that jail of a country will be told to the rest of the world.

Quoting Manni (Reply 39):
What makes you think that the North Koreans do not have the right to fly on new aircraft? Are you comfortable sleeping at night in a warm bed, when thousands of beggars all over the US sleep under bridges?

Frankly, I'm perfectly comfortable at night since I went to school, work for a living, pay taxes and have earned everything I have. Every capitalist society has its share of beggars and low skilled workers that scrape by. What's ironic is that North Korea, a country built around Kim Jong Il's cult of personality - I mean socialism - is failing to deliver even the most basic tenets of that ideology.

Quoting Manni (Reply 39):
Apart from providing a link with other cities and expanding their tiny network, a fleet increase will benefit the few people empoyed in the aviation industry aswell, as it creates more work, increasing tourism and creating more jobs.

Reducing the amount of paranoia and fear within the populace as well as not defaulting on loans will encourage more tourism. The North Korean leadership knows full well that if the average guy on the street saw what was really going on in the world, they'd be overthrown in about five minutes which is why they're compelled to control every facet of daily life.

Do you really think that they'd covert an Il-96 to a flying hospital or use it to transport famished citizenry to other countries to seek help?! At best, they'd use it to transport the various forms of aid they receive from their neighbors.

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
manni
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 41):
At best, they'd use it to transport the various forms of aid they receive from their neighbors.



Quoting 777fan (Reply 41):
and a smattering of South Korean companies, who invests in North Korea?!

While there's a lot more than a few South Korean companies investing in the North, these 2 points alone make it worthwile to invest in a reliable fleet. And no, there's no need to convert aircraft to flying hospitals, medicines will do just fine carried in the cargo holds.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 41):

Reducing the amount of paranoia and fear within the populace

I'd suggest to look into your own backyard before you take a slice of that pie elsewhere.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 41):
North Korea arrests missionaries because they fear that the story of what's really going on in that jail of a country will be told to the rest of the world.

Ah propaganda at best. You'd think the North Koreans would have other ambitions than renewing their fleet and expanding their network, if the outside world has to remain a mystery.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 41):
Frankly, I'm perfectly comfortable at night since I went to school, work for a living, pay taxes and have earned everything I have.

I'm sure most North Koreans deserve a lot more than they earn, and are educated (literacy rate of 99%, GDP US$ 1700, did someone mention Ethiopia? In comparison Ethiopia has a literacy rate of 42% and a GDP US$ 900).
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 42):
You'd think the North Koreans would have other ambitions than renewing their fleet and expanding their network, if the outside world has to remain a mystery.

One could also assume that since they've built 3-lane freeways their ambitions to have mobile population, the catch is the freeways are completely deserted because private ownership af cars is illegal and/or impossible and one needs a permit just to leave the city/town (am I correct?).

Maybe they need more capacity so they can jet communist aparatchiks for medical treatment in Switzerland or France while people die from famine?
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 13):
They do have Business Class according to OAG and inflight Duty Free Sales.

And they served us a warm hamburger on our FNJ-PEK flight.  Wink

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 17):
I wonder how much the loss of an IL62 this week has to do with this?

Was it a hull-loss or not? Not much info out there...

Quoting B6sea (Reply 30):
I don't really see why Air Koryo needs aircraft at all anymore? If the people can't fly anywhere, then what's being put in the seats? Tourism isn't that popular in the North is it?[/

Our flight exactly a year ago was 100 % full. There was around 10 of us tourists at the back and the rest was people in suits. Then again it was the time that they had the 6-party talks in PEK were government people were flying to... We even had our previously OK'ed reservations put back on the waitlist 4 days before the flight because of the government people.
AY and ANA rock!
 
noelg
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:39 pm

RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:41 pm

True there may be an embargo on selling Airbus to North Korea, but they could always lease them.

If Air Koryo set up a holding company elsewhere (maybe Ireland or the Bahamas), could they not then lease them to "Air Koryo"? THey would then own the aircraft, albeit as a holding company elsewhere.

There's always a way around that sort of issue.

In any case, I hope this doesn't mean the end of the trusty old IL-62 yet - one of my favourite aircraft and one I would love to travel on at some point!

Cheers
Noel
 
columba
Posts: 5055
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:57 pm

I was checking out the data base on pictures of Air Koryo and found this one:
A North Korean IL 62 with an Iranian 747SP in the background, it is the axis of old aircraft:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joseph K.K. Lee

It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:36 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 42):
Ah propaganda at best. You'd think the North Koreans would have other ambitions than renewing their fleet and expanding their network, if the outside world has to remain a mystery.

Here's some more "propaganda" about missionaries being arrested in the DPRK for you:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51515.htm

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBu...s/archive/200206/FOR20020628a.html

http://grantmontgomery.blogspot.com/

Quoting Manni (Reply 42):
I'd suggest to look into your own backyard before you take a slice of that pie elsewhere.

Based on your statement, Americans do not enjoy freedom of speech, have no access to external information sources, and are summarily arrested for crimes against the state. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

FWIW, Air India is also in the process of being privatized, a concept that escapes the DPRK. What is ironic about Air Koryo's attempt to modernize its fleet is the fact that they apparently (based on this and other threads) have a decent safety record and provide an acceptable level of service. Does a country that cannot provide electricity and running water and that does not make air travel available to the general public need new aircraft? If so, what is the justification?


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
bennett123
Posts: 7528
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:01 pm

You say that it has a decent safety record, but it does not have a huge number of flights.

Also given their degree of secrecy ...
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Air Koryo Looking For New Aircraft

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 47):
Based on your statement, Americans do not enjoy freedom of speech, have no access to external information sources, and are summarily arrested for crimes against the state.

No, try again. Dont put words in my mouth. It doesn't add to the credibility of your posts. My statement was in reaction to your advise to the North Koreans to 'reduce the amount of paranoia and fear in the populace'. Honestly, if their is one country where fear and paranoia is in her full glory, it's back at your country.


Nowhere have I written or implied that Americans do not have acces to external information sources. That Joe average makes use or not of these sources is a different discussion.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 47):
Here's some more "propaganda" about missionaries being arrested in the DPRK for you:

Your first link is biased, the third link is someones blog, describing how North Korean refugees in China are arrested and deported. The second link tells the story, amongst other storys, of a missionary arrested by the Chinese, for helping North Korean refugees and being arrested for child sex charges. You've waisted my time.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 47):
have a decent safety record and provide an acceptable level of service. Does a country that cannot provide electricity and running water and that does not make air travel available to the general public need new aircraft? If so, what is the justification?

Are you saying that Air Koryo doesn't need new aircraft, given their safety record? I dont know of any airline that will postpone orders for new aircraft untill their older ones fall out of the sky. Why should it be different for Air Koryo. And more importantly... Air Koryo doesn't owe anyone a justification when they decide to purchase new planes, apart from her owner, the North Korean governement. Given Kim Young Il has a fear of flying, I doubt he has much interested spending money for new aircraft when not necessary. If Air Koryo goes ahead with her purchase it wont be to show off, but for a perfectly justified reason to the North Korean governement.
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