Tony Lu
Topic Author
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Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:49 am

Which airlines fly/flew 777's to SXM? I did a search in the database and only saw an Air Europe 777. Where did they fly them to/from? IMO, 777's are the best aircraft and SXM is the best airport so they seem great together.

Thanks for the help,

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af773atmsp
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:18 am

Air Europe 777s?  Wow! Dang, now I really want to go to SXM.
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MCOflyer
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 1):
Air Europe 777s?

I believe they went out of business. AF will start flying the 77W into SXM. Could someone verify when this is going to happen please?

MCOflyer
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:46 am

I am pretty sure that Air Europe was at SXM on a charter flight. I'm guessing it came from Italy as that's where the airline is based, they only have one 767-300 now though.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
AF will start flying the 77W into SXM.

I'm not sure if this has been verified yet. The 777-300ER's that fly to the Caribbean are based in ORY and the SXM route is from CDG.
No Vueling No Party
 
Mir
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:11 pm

Aren't there problems with 777s getting out of SXM with enough fuel to make it Europe?

-Mir
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Aren't there problems with 777s getting out of SXM with enough fuel to make it Europe?

I'm pretty sure that's not a problem. The 777-300ER has beeing flying to FDF from ORY with no problem.
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GQfluffy
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:49 pm

Something tells me the question with the 773ER has always been can it carry enough fuel to make it back to CDG (or ORY) and still be able to climb out of SXM in an engine-out situation...

Correct me if I'm wrong...lacking sleep...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
keego
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6):
Something tells me the question with the 773ER has always been can it carry enough fuel to make it back to CDG (or ORY) and still be able to climb out of SXM in an engine-out situation...

Correct me if I'm wrong...lacking sleep...

KLM 744's Depart SXM and fly to a nearby island, land and full up with enough fuel to go on to Europe so im sure AF would do the same if they needed to.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting Keego (Reply 7):
KLM 744's Depart SXM and fly to a nearby island, land and full up

Most I've known of would hop over to Antigua and load up.....last time I was in SXM on CO back to EWR they did that very thing, but it was on a B722, think they still do that however with the B752 that used to go seasonal and the NG's.
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gyojoo
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:28 am

I remember watching a video of 747-400 blowing people from the sands into the water with its engine wash. I'm wondering what'll happen to the beach when 777's powerful engine goes full throttle at the same spot.
 
A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting Keego (Reply 7):
KLM 744's Depart SXM and fly to a nearby island, land and full up with enough fuel to go on to Europe so im sure AF would do the same if they needed to.

That nearby island would be CUR. AF uses the 77W to PTP and FDF but these airports cannot be compared to SXM which has the mountain close to the runway. So comparing these island with each other is not the right way. On what I do agree is that AF can fly to SXM nonstop from Paris and continue to PTP or FDF with the 77W (currently flown with the A343). This might reduce the weight restriction issues out of SXM as the aircraft will depart SXM with less fuel because the refuelling will be done in either PTP or FDF. As far I know all AF flights to SXM are nonstop but the returnflights all go via PTP or FDF. So this would allow 77W operations in and out of SXM, right?

A388
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:14 am

Wasn't there talk that KLM would fly 777s into SXM in the future?

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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 11):
Wasn't there talk that KLM would fly 777s into SXM in the future?

Not that I am aware of.
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LTU932
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Aren't there problems with 777s getting out of SXM with enough fuel to make it Europe?

Check below.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6):
Something tells me the question with the 773ER has always been can it carry enough fuel to make it back to CDG (or ORY) and still be able to climb out of SXM in an engine-out situation...

That's exactly it (although AF operates their flights to SXM from CDG only). Weight restrictions plus engine out requirements are what keeps the 777 from flying to SXM. Air Frances uses the A343 on that route, which can make the distance both ways nonstop. Hence probably why the A343 has been chosen to replace the 742s for the route.
 
Capital146
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
That's exactly it (although AF operates their flights to SXM from CDG only). Weight restrictions plus engine out requirements are what keeps the 777 from flying to SXM. Air Frances uses the A343 on that route, which can make the distance both ways nonstop. Hence probably why the A343 has been chosen to replace the 742s for the route.

And that is quite an achievement given SXM's runway is little over 7000ft(approx 2300m) long.
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LTU932
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 14):
And that is quite an achievement given SXM's runway is little over 7000ft(approx 2300m) long.

Well, KL is due to re-introduce MD-11s to SXM next year on a W pattern AMS-AUA-SXM flight. KL's MD-11s used to fly nonstop to and from SXM at one point, but that service was dropped and KL kept SXM as a triangular 747 flight (AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS).

Personally I'm also amazed as to how good of a short field performer the A343 actually is, given that it can make it back to France nonstop from SXM. It shows that the A343 still has quite a few advantages over the big twin.
 
777fan
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Tony Lu (Thread starter):
IMO, 777's are the best aircraft and SXM is the best airport so they seem great together.

I totally agree!

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 5):
'm pretty sure that's not a problem. The 777-300ER has beeing flying to FDF from ORY with no problem.

Much like OGG, the question is not whether the 777 has the range to make it from O to D, but rather does the airport at the departure point have a long enough runway to allow a loaded 777 to takeoff. UA's OGG-ORD 777s have to stop in nearby KOA to top off the tank and use the longer runway (about 12K feet versus 7500 feet at OGG).


777fan
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flydreamliner
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):

Personally I'm also amazed as to how good of a short field performer the A343 actually is, given that it can make it back to France nonstop from SXM. It shows that the A343 still has quite a few advantages over the big twin.

The issue with 777 is the engine out restrictions. Being a twin, losing one engine is a bigger deal. The 772ER has a shorter takeoff roll, given the same amount of fuel, and without the restrictions could fly directly to europe. My guess is that a 772LR could do it easy, but no one will ever use on that route.

The 4 engines of the A340 have a few unique advantages still over ETOPS, this is one of them.
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A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:05 am

So the 772ER can operate to/from SXM to Europe while the 773ER cannot due to its bigger size in case of a one engine out situation? The 772ER can arrive/depart SXM with one engine I assume? Air Europe (Italy) 772ER comes to mind.

A388
 
Watapana
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:56 am

AF has no plans of an equipment change to SXM for the time being. The load factors on the CDG-SXM-CDG flights are doing quite satisfactory. All flights to/from SXM depart from CDG, on the otherhand all flights to FDF and PTP depart from ORY.

CDG functions for all international flights, while ORY is for all domestic flights of which FDF and PTP fall under (french overseas territories). And besides all AF flights to FDF and PTP are subsidised by the French Government, as AF must provide an air link between France and her overseas territories and this is however not the case for Sint Maarten(SXM) as it is Dutch. French Sint Martin(STM) on the otherhand is a Department of Guadeloupe, so no direct link with France, but rather with Guadeloupe.


Watapana
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A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Watapana (Reply 19):
CDG functions for all international flights, while ORY is for all domestic flights of which FDF and PTP fall under (french overseas territories). And besides all AF flights to FDF and PTP are subsidised by the French Government, as AF must provide an air link between France and her overseas territories and this is however not the case for Sint Maarten(SXM) as it is Dutch. French Sint Martin(STM) on the otherhand is a Department of Guadeloupe, so no direct link with France, but rather with Guadeloupe.

Thanks for the explanation Watapana. Now I know why PTP/FDF are served from ORY instead of CDG. I didn't know this. You learn something new every day  Smile

A388
 
Mir
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 18):
So the 772ER can operate to/from SXM to Europe while the 773ER cannot due to its bigger size in case of a one engine out situation? The 772ER can arrive/depart SXM with one engine I assume? Air Europe (Italy) 772ER comes to mind.

Neither 772ER or 773ER can operate from SXM to Europe nonstop, because of being unable to meet engine-out requirements with the kind of fuel load that would be required. Which is not to say that a 777 cannot fly into SXM - it would just have to stop somewhere on the way back to Europe (which is probably what Air Europe did).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:49 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
Which is not to say that a 777 cannot fly into SXM - it would just have to stop somewhere on the way back to Europe (which is probably what Air Europe did).

So where did the Air Europe stop? I thaught these flights were non-stops.

A388
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:44 pm

I read in a thread that AF was to going to serve SXM with 773ER a/c.

MCOflyer
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LTU932
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 22):
So where did the Air Europe stop?

Probably in Guadeloupe or SDQ, like SS does right now.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 23):
I read in a thread that AF was to going to serve SXM with 773ER a/c.

That's only a rumour. I don't think AF will ever change their equipment at SXM, the A343 is the perfect aircraft, given its capability to fly nonstop back from SXM to CDG with a reasonable payload. If, then AF would only fly the A332, but only as an aircraft substitution for when an A343 goes tech (though on some occasions, SS also flies their A332s to SXM).
 
A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:51 am

I was thinking, the 777 operated to SXM before, so it can arrive/depart from SXM in a one engine failure scenario otherwise Air Europe wouldn't fly the route. The Air Europe 777 flight apparently was operated via another island in the Caribbean. AF currently flies to SXM via PTP/FDF so why can't they operate 777 flights to SXM in the case where they decide to use this aircraft type to SXM? It seems to be a very similar situation as Air Europe when they operated to SXM.

A388
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 25):
AF currently flies to SXM via PTP/FDF

I'm pretty sure it's a direct flight, CDG-SXM-CDG.
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A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 26):
I'm pretty sure it's a direct flight, CDG-SXM-CDG.

Oww I thaugt it was operated via PTP/FDF. AF also operated the flight via SDQ in the past. Thanks for the correction.

A388
 
Watapana
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:44 am

AF operated her B747-200 flights from SXM via SDQ back to CDG. In 2001/2002 I believe, she began operating direct flights between CDG and SXM with an A340-300 a/c. Since then no flights return via SDQ/FDF or PTP back to CDG. BTW that flight is codeshared with AZ.

Air Europe operated her B777-200 flights via Punta Cana back to Europe. This charter flight was in collarboration between the Maho Resort, the Sint Maarten Tourist Office and Air Europe.

Watapana
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A388
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RE: Triple Sevens At SXM

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:46 am

Thanks for the additional information Watapana  Smile

A388

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