carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:32 am

Hi there

Being a travel agent I cant believe how high Qantas fuel charges have got. I sold a RTW ticket last week which had a fuel and tax charge of £475 GBP! That is just horrific! Why is there a need for it when other airlines like EK dont have any fuel surcharge?

There was an article in the Daily Telegraph the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma.../travel/2006/08/26/etcharges26.xml

And the Australian paper the Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...rgin/2006/08/18/1155408020741.html

There was an explaining article on the BBC last week too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4800961.stm

My point is however why add on this ridiculous fuel charge? Why not just make it part of the fare? It makes calculating Qantas fares so difficult and is very misleading to customers. It seems as though they have jumped on the bandwagon of BA and got carried away!

What is everyones thoughts on this here? I just think it makes fares so misleading and its about time airlines stopped adding these fuel charges on and just changed the fares from time to time to reflect current conditions.
Directoria
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
Why is there a need for it when other airlines like EK dont have any fuel surcharge?

Does EK really not have a fuel surcharge in the UK? Hard to believe...

Here, the average I see on tickets that we issue is between €140 and €180 fuel surcharge (YQ tax) alone... and I know it's the same in Austria and Switzerland...

But you're right - QF is somewhat on the outrageous side of things... but their routes are rather long, so the high amounts obviously have some reason behind them.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:52 am

I am not aware of any fuel surcharge component on EK. The average tax and fees to be added to the ticket is around £90 GBP for a flight to Australia, or only £40 to Dubai. This is just enough to cover the high UK YQ tax, and the high australian tax.

Qantas suffers from both of these countries high taxes which makes the situation worse, and the long trans-pacific routes used on RTW legs do highlight the situation further. But nevertheless it is not easy to explain to a customer that they must pay just under £500 in taxes and charges!
Directoria
 
axio
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:00 am

Its much nicer in NZ where, under consumer law, all cost associated with the provision of the service must be included in the price. AirNZ got taken to task about this a few months ago, and now its back to being simple.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 2):
The average tax and fees to be added to the ticket is around £90 GBP for a flight to Australia, or only £40 to Dubai. This is just enough to cover the high UK YQ tax, and the high australian tax.

Okay, I don't understand this. I thought the YQ tax was the fuel charge. EK charges $20 and QF charges £75 on a return ticket LHR-SYD.

Even a non-travel agent can easily look that up.
International Homo of Mystery
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
My point is however why add on this ridiculous fuel charge? Why not just make it part of the fare?

I too believe it is absolutely ridiculous. QF is obviously trying to jack up prices without actually raising the "headline" charge - which is still legal but I feel should be outlawed asap. (And of course as an agent the "YQ tax" is non-commissionable for you too, so they succeed in lowering commission as well as screw the customer in the process)

The agents here are crying foul as well, most notably Flight Centre's MD Graham Turner. Many agents here have stopped recommending QF ... there are plenty of choices in flying to Australia from Europe so you don't have to lock yourself into QF (unfortunately, QF does offer some pretty good deals domestically when combined with an international ticket ...)

If it really bugs you, stop selling QF. Simple as that. It's the only way those bastards will learn.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
9V-SPJ
Posts: 667
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 1:51 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:36 pm

SQ has a US$180 surcharge on round-trip flights from the US to Singapore, so its not only Qantas.

9V-SPJ
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:09 pm

Ok... let me give you the breakdown of what EK charges - I've booked these segments:

 1 EK   6Y 01NOV 3 LHRDXB SS1  2200  0845   02NOV 4 /DCEK /E    

2 EK 412Y 02NOV 4 DXBSYD SS1 1000 0655 03NOV 5 /DCEK /E
3 EK 413Y 11NOV 6 SYDDXB SS1 2145 0530 12NOV 7 /DCEK /E
4 EK 1Y 12NOV 7 DXBLHR SS1 0745 1135 /DCEK /E


Now, if I price these segments without looking for any better fare, but just to get the fare in Y-Class, I get:

WPAEK‡SLON«                                                     

BASE FARE TAXES TOTAL
1- GBP1202.00 76.60XT GBP1278.60ADT
XT 20.00GB 13.00UB 15.20AU 17.60WY
10.80YQ
1202.00 76.60 1278.60TTL
ADT-01 YRTGB1
LON EK X/DXB Q65.14 EK SYD1053.43YRTGB1EK X/DXB Q65.14 EK LON
1053.43YRTGB1NUC2237.14END ROE0.537292
EK ONLY/NONEND


Indeed, it, at first, looks as if EK only charges GBP10.80 YQ-Tax (and, by the way, in practically all countries, YQ is the fuel surcharge, and not, as you write, the 'UK YQ-Tax').

Nonetheless, in this case, the tax-breakdown looks like this:
WPDF                                                            

PSGR TYPE ADT
FARE GBP 1202.00
TAX GBP 76.60XT
TOTAL GBP 1278.60
LON EK X/DXB Q65.14 EK SYD1053.43YRTGB1EK X/DXB Q65.14 EK LON105
3.43YRTGB1NUC2237.14END ROE0.537292
XT 20.00GB 13.00UB 15.20AU 17.60WY 10.80YQ
/////////////// TRAFFIC DOCUMENT ISSUED IN LON ///////////////
PU -FARE BASIS-CUR NUC AMT ELEMENT DESCRIPTION ----------- GI
GBP 65.14 LON-DXB FUEL SURCHARGE
01 YRTGB1 GBP 1053.43 LON-SYD EK /HR RTG EH
GBP 65.14 SYD-DXB FUEL SURCHARGE
01 YRTGB1 GBP 1053.43 LON-SYD EK /HR RTG EH
2237.14 - TOTAL NUC
-TAX AMT/GBP/-- CUR CODES DESCRIPTION------------------------
15.20 AU/AU PASSENGER MOVEMENT CHARGE
15.20:AUD 38.00 *SYD* *EK*
20.00 GB/GB4 AIR PASSENGER DUTY APD‡
20.00:GBP 20.00 *LHR* *EK* ‡
13.00 GB/UB6 INTERNATIONAL DPTRS IOM THROUGH LTN
13.00:GBP 13.00 *LHR* *EK*
17.60 AU/WY PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE
8.80:AUD 22.06 *SYD* *EK*
8.80:AUD 22.06 *DXB* *EK*
10.80 /YQI SERVICE FEE - INSURANCE
2.70:USD 5.00 *LHR* *EK*
2.70:USD 5.00 *DXB* *EK*
2.70:USD 5.00 *SYD* *EK*
2.70:USD 5.00 *DXB* *EK*
-IATA RATES OF EXCHANGE USED IN FARE CALCULATION --------------
0.5372920000000 GBP-ROE EFF 01JUL06*INDEF
-BSR USED IN TAX CALCULATION ----------------------------------
1AUD:0.4009140841117GBP 1USD:0.5301945814113GBP
-PRICING UNIT TRIP TYPE ---------------------------------------
PU 01 - NORMAL ROUND TRIP


So in this case, YQ is, indeed, used as "SERVICE FEE - INSURANCE".

But if you take a closer look a bit further up in that detailed list, you'll see a header called "PU -FARE BASIS-CUR NUC AMT ELEMENT DESCRIPTION" - there you get a list of the charges EK hides in the fare calculation, and in this case, this includes NUC65.14 in fuel surcharges per direction, for a total of NUC130.28 - and this equals to GBP68.80.

Admittedly, that's not really all that much...

Compare that with QF:

 1 QF  32Y 01NOV 3 LHRSYD SS1  1115  1930   02NOV 4 /DCQF /E    

2 QF 1Y 11NOV 6 SYDLHR SS1 1805 0625 12NOV 7 /DCQF /E


And a pricing...
WPAQF«                                                          

BASE FARE EQUIV AMT TAXES TOTAL
1- GBP1834.00 EUR2720.00 215.04XT EUR2935.04ADT
XT 29.67GB 19.28UB 22.65AU 25.56WY
117.88YQ
1834.00 2720.00 215.04 2935.04TTL
ADT-01 YKEE
LON QF SYD1706.71YKEE QF LON1706.70YKEE NUC3413.41END
ROE0.537292


... and the tax details...

WPDF                                                            

PSGR TYPE ADT
FARE GBP 1834.00 EQUIV EUR 2720.00
TAX EUR 215.04XT
TOTAL EUR 2935.04
LON QF SYD1706.71YKEE QF LON1706.70YKEE NUC3413.41END ROE0.53729
2
XT 29.67GB 19.28UB 22.65AU 25.56WY 117.88YQ
RATE USED 1GBP-1.4830590168505EUR
/////////////// TRAFFIC DOCUMENT ISSUED IN VIE ///////////////
PU -FARE BASIS-CUR NUC AMT ELEMENT DESCRIPTION ----------- GI
01 YKEE GBP 1706.71 LON-SYD YY /HR 0M EH
01 YKEE 2GBP 1706.70 SYD-LON YY /HR 0M EH
01 YKEE GBP 1706.70 LON-SYD YY /HR 0M EH
3413.41 - TOTAL NUC
-TAX AMT/EUR/-- CUR CODES DESCRIPTION------------------------
22.65 AU/AU PASSENGER MOVEMENT CHARGE
22.65:AUD 38.00 *SYD* *QF*
29.67 GB/GB4 AIR PASSENGER DUTY APD‡
29.67:GBP 20.00 *LHR* *QF* ‡
19.28 GB/UB6 INTERNATIONAL DPTRS IOM THROUGH LTN
19.28:GBP 13.00 *LHR* *QF*
25.56 AU/WY PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE
12.78:AUD 21.44 *SYD* *QF*
12.78:AUD 21.44 *LHR* *QF*
117.88 /YQF SERVICE FEE - FUEL
58.94:USD 75.50 *LHR* *QF*
58.94:USD 75.50 *SYD* *QF*
-IATA RATES OF EXCHANGE USED IN FARE CALCULATION --------------
0.5372920000000 GBP-ROE EFF 01JUL06*INDEF
-BSR USED IN FARE CALCULATION ---------------------------------
1GBP:1.4830590168505EUR
-BSR USED IN TAX CALCULATION ----------------------------------
1GBP:1.4830590168505EUR 1AUD:0.5958232788155EUR
1USD:0.7806401249024EUR
-PRICING UNIT TRIP TYPE ---------------------------------------
PU 01 - SPECIAL ROUND TRIP


So, yes, they charge more - and I agree that it's not only too much as it is, but that these charges should be made part of the fare: both methods, the one used by EK just as the one used by QF, show you a lower base fare which then suddenly goes up drastically because of the charges that are added later on.

Unfortunately, a lot of consumers like to be fooled - they like low fares and, often enough, don't register that their low fare suddenly turned into something really expensive as soon as all the taxes and surcharges have been added...

By the way - a colleague of mine issued a Oneworld RTW a couple of days ago with around €900 (approx. USD1153/GBP607) in taxes and fuel surcharges... with which she currently holds the "top spot" on our internal "who issues the ticket with the most ridiculous amount of taxes/surcharges"-list - but that was a 20 segment Global Explorer, which really maxed out just about all conditions of that fare...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
PER744
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:38 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:29 pm

It's a legal requirement to include all taxes and surcharges in the advertised fare in Australia, so no one can claim that it's an attempt to mislead consumers.
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting PER744 (Reply 8):
It's a legal requirement to include all taxes and surcharges in the advertised fare in Australia, so no one can claim that it's an attempt to mislead consumers.

True, but carledwards is a Travel Agent in the UK and quoting GBP. Our laws may not apply where he conducts his business. The reason why we have these laws is to protect us from the ruthless antics of our very own LCC's that advertise a $19 fare and 'bury' the fact that $79 worth of fees and charges apply when you book over the Net. Personally I can see through that sort of behaviour but others can't. The basis of most legislation is essentially to protect us from ourselves.
 
turkee
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:21 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
It seems as though they have jumped on the bandwagon of BA and got carried away!

Of course, BA has a (majority?) shareholding of QF, so that's not totally surprising.
 
aussiestu
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:32 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting Turkee (Reply 10):
Of course, BA has a (majority?) shareholding of QF, so that's not totally surprising

BA no longer holds any shares in Qantas, all sold to make the profits at BA look a little better after 9/11.

Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
other airlines like EK dont have any fuel surcharge?

Could this have anything to do with EKs home base being Dubai, ie....Middle east oil producing country and all the perks they have with being an oil producing, government helped (despite what they say) company??
 
jetfuel
Posts: 1027
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:25 pm

It should be outlawed
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:55 pm

Hello again, thanks for all your replies everyone. Its nice to here that a few aussie agents are having the same problem. Im an Aussie specialist by the way so this is very important to me. The Qantas fare structure is very flexible and they offer many useful routings which other airlines do not. However it just makes it so complicted in quoting their prices, and is a big turn off to me when quoting people, so I tend to recommend other airlines instead, i.e. Air New Zealand and Virgin Atlantic which have much lower surcharges.

Quoting PER744 (Reply 8):
It's a legal requirement to include all taxes and surcharges in the advertised fare in Australia, so no one can claim that it's an attempt to mislead consumers.

It is currently not a legal requirement in the EU that advertised fares must include tax. It is seen as good business practice to do this however. The EU is currently mounting a campaign to which advertising fares without tax should be made illegal, and I agree with this.

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 5):
I too believe it is absolutely ridiculous. QF is obviously trying to jack up prices without actually raising the "headline" charge - which is still legal but I feel should be outlawed asap. (And of course as an agent the "YQ tax" is non-commissionable for you too, so they succeed in lowering commission as well as screw the customer in the process)

Yes this is another problem of a massage percentage of the fare being tax.
Directoria
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 11):
Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
other airlines like EK dont have any fuel surcharge?

Could this have anything to do with EKs home base being Dubai, ie....Middle east oil producing country and all the perks they have with being an oil producing, government helped (despite what they say) company??

No, it could clearly not have anything to do with it - since the basis for your assumption is false: EK does have a fuel surcharge.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 14):

No, it could clearly not have anything to do with it - since the basis for your assumption is false: EK does have a fuel surcharge.

not to mention, EK needs to fill their planes 1/2 the time at a foreign country...so its not as if EK is going to be able to get their oil for free or for cheap.....they have to pay market rates...

other middle east carriers such as QR have also reported that their fuel costs have gone up quite a bit too...
"Up the Irons!"
 
carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 14):
No, it could clearly not have anything to do with it - since the basis for your assumption is false: EK does have a fuel surcharge.

if this does not have anything to do with it, then why is EK's fuel charge and taxes 3 times cheaper than Qantas??
Directoria
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 16):
if this does not have anything to do with it, then why is EK's fuel charge and taxes 3 times cheaper than Qantas??

It's not.

Incidentally, I didn't price the QF itinerary in GBP this morning... I was in a bit of a rush...

The real result for QF is:

WPAQF‡SLON«                                                     

BASE FARE TAXES TOTAL
1- GBP1834.00 145.40XT GBP1979.40ADT
XT 20.00GB 13.00UB 15.20AU 17.20WY
80.00YQ
1834.00 145.40 1979.40TTL
ADT-01 YKEE
LON QF SYD1706.71YKEE QF LON1706.70YKEE NUC3413.41END
ROE0.537292



WPDF
PSGR TYPE ADT
FARE GBP 1834.00
TAX GBP 145.40XT
TOTAL GBP 1979.40
LON QF SYD1706.71YKEE QF LON1706.70YKEE NUC3413.41END ROE0.53729
2
XT 20.00GB 13.00UB 15.20AU 17.20WY 80.00YQ
/////////////// TRAFFIC DOCUMENT ISSUED IN LON ///////////////
PU -FARE BASIS-CUR NUC AMT ELEMENT DESCRIPTION ----------- GI
01 YKEE GBP 1706.71 LON-SYD YY /HR 0M EH
01 YKEE 2GBP 1706.70 SYD-LON YY /HR 0M EH
01 YKEE GBP 1706.70 LON-SYD YY /HR 0M EH
3413.41 - TOTAL NUC
-TAX AMT/GBP/-- CUR CODES DESCRIPTION------------------------
15.20 AU/AU PASSENGER MOVEMENT CHARGE
15.20:AUD 38.00 *SYD* *QF*
20.00 GB/GB4 AIR PASSENGER DUTY APD
20.00:GBP 20.00 *LHR* *QF*‡
13.00 GB/UB6 INTERNATIONAL DPTRS IOM THROUGH LTN
13.00:GBP 13.00 *LHR* *QF*
17.20 AU/WY PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE
8.60:AUD 21.44 *SYD* *QF*
8.60:AUD 21.44 *LHR* *QF*
80.00 /YQF SERVICE FEE - FUEL
40.00:USD 75.50 *LHR* *QF*
40.00:USD 75.50 *SYD* *QF*
-IATA RATES OF EXCHANGE USED IN FARE CALCULATION --------------
0.5372920000000 GBP-ROE EFF 01JUL06*INDEF
-BSR USED IN TAX CALCULATION ----------------------------------
1AUD:0.4009140841117GBP 1USD:0.5301945814113GBP
-PRICING UNIT TRIP TYPE ---------------------------------------
PU 01 - SPECIAL ROUND TRIP




In other words: QF charges GBP145.40, EK charges GBP76.60+GBP68.80, for a total of GBP145.40.

The sums seem quite similar, don't they...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
My point is however why add on this ridiculous fuel charge? Why not just make it part of the fare?

as noted in passing in one of the responses, this way the fuel surcharge will apply to reward tickets too (what a nice way of saying "thank you for your loyalty")
 
LH459
Posts: 793
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:41 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 7):
By the way - a colleague of mine issued a Oneworld RTW a couple of days ago with around €900 (approx. USD1153/GBP607) in taxes and fuel surcharges... with which she currently holds the "top spot" on our internal "who issues the ticket with the most ridiculous amount of taxes/surcharges"-list

Nice to know we aren't the only agency that does this! My current record is USD$948.61 on a 20 segment rtw.  Silly
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting LH459 (Reply 19):
Nice to know we aren't the only agency that does this! My current record is USD$948.61 on a 20 segment rtw

Wow. I've only hit €450, so that's pretty good. We no longer quote fares as X plus taxes because as we are now earning a MASSIVE 1% commission, we need to add a service fee in here too, and there is no way you can start at a base fare of €2000 for an RTW and end up at €3000.

Even the LCC's play the game. U2 now are up to €13 to use a credit card (we have a debit card but it never works and our bank can't work out why).

Ultimately we are finding more and more clients are just asking for total price, because that's what you have to pay. Who cares what it is without tax? I don't have a way to sell a ticket without tax.

I still find it strange sometimes when I'm in Canada/US and stores display prices without tax, because I'm used to the price on the tag being what I'm going to pay, especially when some places in Canada had PST and GST. Wow, add 19% or something. Maybe airlines aren't so different after all.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:03 am

There must be some kind of inconsistancy between the UK and Germany. Below I am pasting a comparison of a return flight to Sydney, the first on QF, and the second on EK. The charges on QF are nearly double the EK one, but this routing however is by no means one of the worst since it does not allow a stopover.

---QANTAS---

PNR PRICED ON 31AUG FOR TKTG ON 31AUG
* VALID QF/BA/AO ONLY
* PRICING RULES VALIDATING CARRIER DEFAULT QF
** 10FEB DEPARTURE DATE/ 14SEP IS LAST DATE TO TICKET
* FARE MAY CHANGE UNLESS TICKETED *

BF GBP TX GBP TX GBP TX GBP TOTAL GBP
GB TAX UB TAX XT TAX
002- 663.00 20.00 13.00 107.40 803.40 SJBBGB
1326.00 40.00 26.00 214.80 1606.80 TTL GBP

ADT LON QF SYD 616.98QF LON 616.98NUC1233.96END ROE.537292QF XT
75.00YQ15.20AU17.20WY)>


---EMIRATES---

PNR PRICED ON 31AUG FOR TKTG ON 31AUG
* EK ONLY/NONEND
* PRICING RULES VALIDATING CARRIER DEFAULT EK
* SURCHARGE APPLIED *
** 10FEB DEPARTURE DATE/ 10FEB IS LAST DATE TO TICKET
* FARE MAY CHANGE UNLESS TICKETED *

BF GBP TX GBP TX GBP TX GBP TOTAL GBP
GB TAX UB TAX XT TAX
001- 1202.00 20.00 13.00 43.20 1278.20 YRTGB1
1202.00 20.00 13.00 43.20 1278.20 TTL GBP

ADT LON EK X/DXB Q65.14EK SYD 1053.43EK X/DXB Q65.14EK LON)>

The total QF charges are £140.40
The total EK charges are £76.20

I will find many more routes however where the QF taxes are worse than this
Directoria
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 21):
There must be some kind of inconsistancy between the UK and Germany.

No, there isn't - because you're missing something:

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 21):
ADT LON EK X/DXB Q65.14EK SYD 1053.43EK X/DXB Q65.14EK LON)>

See those two Q65.14 listings in the fare calculation? Those are EK's fuel surcharges. If you call up a fare display, you'll see the base fare without these two amounts - these two only get added when you let your CRS calculate the end price; they're the NUC130.28 (2 x 65.14) I mentioned that add up to GBP68.80, which - if added to the GBP76.20 that you've got, gives you a sum of GBP145...

So in your example, EK actually charges more than QF does!
Smile - it confuses people!
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:12 am

YQ is only fuel surcharge. Q can be anything - security charge, UNMIN fee etc. It's a misc. item.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 22):
So in your example, EK actually charges more than QF does!

whilst i agree this is a fuel surcarge; the main point to the passenger and agent remains however; EK's charges are considerably less than QF's

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 21):
The total QF charges are £140.40
The total EK charges are £76.20
Directoria
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 23):
YQ is only fuel surcharge. Q can be anything - security charge, UNMIN fee etc. It's a misc. item.

Actually no, YQ can also be an insurance fee - see here:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 7):
/YQI SERVICE FEE - INSURANCE

And while, yes, a Q surcharge can be just about anything, in this case it is the fuel surcharge:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 7):
PU -FARE BASIS-CUR NUC AMT ELEMENT DESCRIPTION ----------- GI
GBP 65.14 LON-DXB FUEL SURCHARGE
01 YRTGB1 GBP 1053.43 LON-SYD EK /HR RTG EH
GBP 65.14 SYD-DXB FUEL SURCHARGE
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 24):
whilst i agree this is a fuel surcarge; the main point to the passenger and agent remains however; EK's charges are considerably less than QF's

Why is a charge of GBP145 less than GBP140?

If you start out with a hypothetical fare of GBP1000, add GBP100 through Q-surcharges and add another GBP50 in taxes, you'll get GBP1150. This is what EK does.

If you start out with that same fare of GBP1000 and add GBP140 in taxe, you get GBP1140. This is what QF does.

So while, at first sight, QF's charges do indeed seem higher, they are, in fact, not.

[Edited 2006-08-31 21:20:52]
Smile - it confuses people!
 
carledwards
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 26):
Why is a charge of GBP145 less than GBP140?

But EK's charges are £76.20?

The point is regardless of how EK make up the fare which shows on there, those taces and charges must be added to all fares. At my agency we rarely ever sell thsoe published fares the GDS quotes, we have our own direct contracts with the airlines, I dont if yours does the same or not?

So for example we show a client a fare of £800 on the screen for EK. Then the £76 tax gets slapped on.

We show the same client a fare for QF of £800, and a much higher £140 gets slapped on top. It just makes the whole process far less transparent to the customers (and even us agents at times)

Also I totally agree with the response below:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 18):
as noted in passing in one of the responses, this way the fuel surcharge will apply to reward tickets too (what a nice way of saying "thank you for your loyalty")

These EXTRA taxes and charges (not built into the fare) make it so they can charge lolyalty members, staff etc, extra charges when they give away a so called 'free' fare.
Directoria
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 20):
I still find it strange sometimes when I'm in Canada/US and stores display prices without tax, because I'm used to the price on the tag being what I'm going to pay, especially when some places in Canada had PST and GST. Wow, add 19% or something. Maybe airlines aren't so different after all.

I can't speak for Canada, but in the U.S., sales taxes are levied by the state, county and sometimes even the city. That's the main reason prices are displayed without tax, because there's no national sales tax. Even what is taxed can vary by locality. For instance, the state of Oregon has no sales tax, but if you go down to Ashland, a popular tourist town due to the Shakespeare theater, the city will tax you on hot food regardless of where you eat it, but in California, they don't tax on hot food served to go (or at least they didn't, it may have changed).
International Homo of Mystery
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 27):
But EK's charges are £76.20?

Yes and no - but in the case of net fare contracts with airlines, the airlines (FORTUNATELY) usually tend to include the charges in the base fare.

We have a couple of airlines that do this (the US majors as well as two or three South American carriers working with Q surcharges), but we also have one US major that does not: we have to add the CRS-quoted Q-surcharge onto the contract-net-fare before adding the taxes and then issuing the ticket.

Then again, most carriers (including, for example, EK) work with YQ taxes in the three countries that I come in contact with in my daily work routine, and one or two of the airlines working with Q-surcharges have told us that they'll be switching to YQ-taxes soon (amongst them the US major that makes us add the CRS Q-surcharge to our net-fares).

I guess that's probably the main difference - and the reason why QF never seemed that much more expensive to me (though I don't sell any tickets these days, and hardly ever issue tickets any more... I've moved into the more technical/administrative side of the company I work for).

Personally, AF is the airline that always strikes me as having ridiculously high charges - FRA-CDG-NYC is available for a (published) fare of EUR225.00... with the taxes/surcharges adding up to EUR235.88 for a grand total of EUR460.88...

Though LH also does this quite nicely... with a fare for FRA-MAN of EUR13, to which EUR85.28 in taxes are added...  Wink

In any case - to sum things up... I fully agree with you that the fuel surcharges have gone completely out of control - these amounts should be included in the fares; they should not be put into the tax box or added via Q-surcharge.

The fare is where they belong.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
User avatar
Plane Holland
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:27 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Carledwards (Thread starter):
Being a travel agent I cant believe how high Qantas fuel charges have got. I sold a RTW ticket last week which had a fuel and tax charge of �475 GBP! That is just horrific! Why is there a need for it when other airlines like EK dont have any fuel surcharge?

when it is as horrific as you say it is would anyone buy/sell it? I used to be in the fare department of a large consolidator and just compared the total price now with those of 4 to 5 years ago - the total now is lower even with fuel surcharge. Don't know about UK but we use practically the same airlines to down under.
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Plane Holland (Reply 30):
when it is as horrific as you say it is would anyone buy/sell it? I used to be in the fare department of a large consolidator and just compared the total price now with those of 4 to 5 years ago - the total now is lower even with fuel surcharge. Don't know about UK but we use practically the same airlines to down under.

True the total cost of airfares has gone down, and more in real terms ... but that doesn't make a low base fare and all the add on, esp the ridiculous "fuel surcharge", an acceptable practice.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 7):
By the way - a colleague of mine issued a Oneworld RTW a couple of days ago with around €900 (approx. USD1153/GBP607) in taxes and fuel surcharges... with which she currently holds the "top spot" on our internal "who issues the ticket with the most ridiculous amount of taxes/surcharges"-list - but that was a 20 segment Global Explorer, which really maxed out just about all conditions of that fare...

OMG I bought that fare in 2003 and paid a grand total of AUD$600 in taxes and surcharges for the same number of sectors ... (at that time it was equivalent to about USD$360)

Governments and airlines really do believe air travellers are out there to be fleeced.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5171
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:20 am

plate the ticket on AA paper and it solves the problem...but yes, it's a disgrace to be honest! i have a 1world rtw booked and was initially going to fly QF from Syd-Nrt...quickly changed that to JL and saved $300.
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:22 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 32):
plate the ticket on AA paper and it solves the problem...

UA should work for *A as well.

I'm currently sitting in the SilverKris F lounge in SIN on a SQ F 016-plated (UA) ticket - the TAX/FEE/CHARGE box shows a nice zero as both the departure airport and destination charge the airport tax separately, and UA charges no YQ for these tickets.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
carnoc
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:15 pm

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:47 pm

Australia's largest travel agent, Flight Centre, expects Qantas to wrap its fuel surcharges into the price of airline tickets, allowing travel agents to earn commissions on them, says managing director Graham Turner.

Full details available @ http://en.carnoc.com/list/0/954.html

Regards.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Qantas Crazy Fuel Surcharges

Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Carnoc (Reply 34):

Actually bizarrely enough we get commission on the YQ tax in Portugal, so for every 100 in YQ we get 1. I'd happily sacrifice my 1% to get them to just stick it in with the base fare.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.