9MMAR
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MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:56 pm

Malaysia Airlines managed to better its own forecast for the second time this year by reporting for the three months ended June 30, a smaller net loss of MYR 177mil versus MYR 260mil projected earlier.

Full news can be found here http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.../31/business/15296065&sec=business

In the same event, MH also announced that it will keep its Zurich, Rome and Los Angeles routes despite an earlier plan to do away with these unprofitable routes.

In fact, the airline plans to increase flights to Los Angeles and even Paris as part of its network rationalisation scheme. But it has yet to decide whether to keep its Kuala Lumpur-Stockholm-New York route that currently suffers from low load factor.

(Spoiler: The Stockholm and New York routes were (almost) confirmed to be suspended post 15 January 2007. Full thread is here) Rumor MH Closing KUL-ARN-EWR? (by Sukhoi Aug 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Full news can be found here http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.../31/business/15296532&sec=business

To the 'fan' of MH's KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE route, unfortunately nothing being mentioned about the 'elusive' routes, which mean it will stay in MH's network.

[Edited 2006-08-31 07:59:46]
 
LAXintl
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:13 pm

I can see how the LA flight has been a loss. MH has been stuck operating via notoriously lower yield Taipei after giving up their Japan-US rights as they were unable to get additional frequencies via Narita.
In addition much of MH LAX crowd consist of also lower yield Indian subcontinent and South Asia connection passengers.

MH regretfully is one of those carriers that has a poor rap and simply fails to get the appropriate credit for its decent product it offers, and is stuck playing secondary role to neighbors such as Singapore.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:29 pm

Rome was already said to be incresing to 5 weekly on this forum a while back.

LAX needs to be increased to daily and possibly via a new city, how about via KIX since JAL are dropping it, no one will be left on KIX-LAX.

I've heard before that ZRH yeilds aren't bad despite the low frequency, though with the plan to increase flights to Skyteam Hubs in Europe it wouldn't surprise me if it goes eventually. They would be daily to CDG already if they had the landing rights.

So no news on FRA then.

I think they should drop CPT-EZE but maybe continue KUL-JNB and change it to a 772 and increase flights, hopefully find a codeshare partner.

How about AKL and ADL, how are they doing? Since AKL is scheduled as a 5 weekly 772 over the Southern Summer compared to a daily 744 in the past.

Any news on the fleet? They need a few more 772's, they could probably get rid of 3-4 744's.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:04 pm

As far as I know there were no recent plans to axe the KUL-FCO route. As a matter of fact, when the closing of MAN and VIE was announced, the airline stated that it wanted to focus its Europe operations on LHR and the Skyteam hubs AMS, CDG and FCO. At that time, MH announced at increase of FCO frequencies to 5 weekly. However, this reinforcement has so far not materialized.

Daily flights to CDG are a natural next step for MH, and although the French Government is notoriously stingy when it comes to giving out the rights, I would expect this increase to be facilitated by a possible future entrance of MH into Skyteam which might see AF condesharing on the CDG-KUL flights.

As for ZRH and FRA, they remain oddballs in the MH European network in terms of the airline's stated policies. FRA has seen a frequency decrease from daily to 5 weekly flights. I suspect that these routes will be evaluated on their individual performance, and might stay in the network if the contribution to the overall system is deemed satisfactory.

It looks a done deal by now that the KUL-ARN-EWR route will be axed soon, and I do not believe that MH is considering to keep ARN online either. Most Scandinavian destinations can be served easily through AMS via interline and codeshare agreements with KLM.

The axing of EWR might provoke additional frequencies into LAX, which seems like the right thing to do for MH. Daily flights into LAX might improve the yields, which have been suffering since the airline reduced its offerings there and gave up the NRT stopover.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
after giving up their Japan-US rights as they were unable to get additional frequencies via Narita.



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
which have been suffering since the airline reduced its offerings there and gave up the NRT stopover.

Why did MH gave up their Japan-US right? Yes, I remember when I was a child, MH flew to Los Angeles via Tokyo. If I could recall they also flew to Honululu at that time.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 2):
How about AKL and ADL, how are they doing?

ADL was being mentioned in this recent thread Malaysia Airlines - Virgin Blue Signs Partnership (by OdiE Aug 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)
"Malaysia Airlines and Virgin Blue yesterday signed a comprehensive interline agreement to provide travellers with seamless connectivity between 22 Australian cities and centres. Phase one included MH's international flights departing from and arriving at Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane, followed by Adelaide and Perth, MH said in a statement on Aug 29."

Based on that, I suppose ADL will remain. The routes which were not being mentioned (FRA, AKL etc) will likely to remain.

The link to the news in the thread starter also mention that MH is in the midst of setting up A LOT of code sharing agreements. Excerp from the news,

"As part of the network rationalisation plan, MH has signed code share agreements with several airlines and the issue of low load factor will gradually diminish. The recent deal with Virgin Blue is a major development between a full service carrier and a low-cost carrier and allows for interlining.

MH's CEO, Jala said “a few more partnerships are in the pipeline.’’ He is looking at a similar arrangement with Italy’s Alitalia to ferry travellers into parts of Italy and vice versa. That is part of the hub and spoke concept that Jala has for the European sector.

Jala also wants to expand the partnership into China, India and South Africa. MH was likely to partner South African Airways for the African connection and China Southern for the China connectivity, sources said.

As for India, the ideal partner appears to be Jet Airways, a promising airline. But present regulations in India do not permit such an arrangement."

So basically, MH has made it public that it intended to sign a code share agreements with Alitalia, South African Airlines, China Southern Airlines and India's Jet Airways. Two days ago, a same agreement with Australia's Virgin Blue was realised.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 2):
Any news on the fleet? They need a few more 772's, they could probably get rid of 3-4 744's.

In their inflight magazine, Going Places, the July issue stated they have 17 744s. In the August issue, the number was reduced to only 13. So there's 4 744s being pulled off from the fleet. Not sure if it was a typo.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:52 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
"Malaysia Airlines and Virgin Blue yesterday signed a comprehensive interline agreement to provide travellers with seamless connectivity between 22 Australian cities and centres. Phase one included MH's international flights departing from and arriving at Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane, followed by Adelaide and Perth, MH said in a statement on Aug 29."

Based on that, I suppose ADL will remain.

Not necessarily.
As I mentioned to you in another thread, don't believe everything you read.

While I'm not sure on the financial return of ADL services (i'm guessing loss making since SQ went daily, CX went to 4pw and QF went non-stop ADL-SIN),
geography and connectivity elsewhere may work against ADL.

Unlike MEL which is the hub for Tasmania, Canberra and Adelaide,, and Sydney which is hub for Canberra and Brisbane, Adelaide actually presents NO interlining options for DJ-MH.

Adelaide could be served as a one stop from KUL 34 times pw over BNE, SYD and MEL alone..
 
LAXintl
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:42 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
Why did MH gave up their Japan-US right? Yes, I remember when I was a child, MH flew to Los Angeles via Tokyo

If I remember correctly, they were limited to either 3 or 4 weekly frequencies.

In a quest to offer daily LA service they had to find another point, at which time the TPE stop came into being.
Its certainly arguable they could have been better off keeping the Japan frequencies and only operate the additional flights via Taiwan, but they instead chose to run all flights via TPE.

The problem with Taiwan is that they go up against both EVA Air and China Airlines along with Singapore which routes a daily flight via TPE. There is often very heavy discounting in the market particularly in premium classes. MH due to its weaker brand awareness seems to always come last in peoples choice and often gets stuck with low yielding transfer traffic to places such as India on its LA services.

Speaking of old routes, some might remember MH used to also serve Mexico City via LAX. It was certainly a funny sight to see MH operate a low frequency 744 in a market that was dominated by narrow body carriers offering dozens of daily flights.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
vincewy
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:07 am

Can MH reroute its LAX flight through PVG? Else another optoin is KIX
 
XA744
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Thread starter):
Malaysia Airlines managed to better its own forecast for the second time this year

Very happy to hear that MAS is on the way to achieve its turnaround. However, I believe there are still some operations that carefully need to be reviewed. The carrier´s management needs to clearly convey the message to the Malaysian government: MAS has to arrive to profitability ASAP and by all means !... It is war out there in the fields of the industry !

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
Why did MH gave up their Japan-US right? Yes, I remember when I was a child, MH flew to Los Angeles via Tokyo

If I remember correctly, they were limited to either 3 or 4 weekly frequencies.

Well not only that. The Narita flights were limited to the sale of a certain number of seats per annum ex LAX and v v. You can imagine how costly it became for MAS to sustain this operation. MH held to Tokyo merely to retain the very valuable slots it had at Narita.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Speaking of old routes, some might remember MH used to also serve Mexico City via LAX. It was certainly a funny sight to see MH operate a low frequency 744 in a market that was dominated by narrow body carriers offering dozens of daily flights.

I agree it was a low frequency, but I don´t agree in the part about being a funny sight. In the beginning it was a very hard flight to sell. Just when the MEX-LAX-MEX sectors had outperformed LAX-TYO v v in terms of generated revenue, and arrived to their break even point, the Mexican government terminates 5th freedom rights and kills MAS Mexico operations.

Flights in EYCL on the MEX-LAX run were observing a 90% PLF with 100% of cargo capacity taken, when in 2000 the carrier was forced out of this complicated market.

Best regards

P.S. We were always pushing for a third frequency that could have made our lives a lot easier at MAS , but the Mexican authorities never went for it.

[Edited 2006-08-31 17:20:57]
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
Horus
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:29 am

9MMAR, any idea what the status of their twice weekly KUL-CAI-KUL B772 flights? Is the route profitable? Wouldn't 3x weekly A330 flights offering greater flexibility without overcapacity? MH have an edge over other Asian carriers serving CAI since their service is non-stop (SQ and KE flights route via DXB)

Also what's the make-up on these flights? I know their are many Malaysian students studying in Cairo and I know more Egyptians are visiting Kuala Lumpur for holidays, however I can't see how those 2 markets can sustain an operation unless there is something I'm missing.

Horus
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9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Speaking of old routes, some might remember MH used to also serve Mexico City via LAX.

Yes, I remember it. I think it was somewhere in 1990, at that time MH is busy promoting two of its newest routes, Mexico City and Madrid, both of which were no longer in their network.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Its certainly arguable they could have been better off keeping the Japan frequencies and only operate the additional flights via Taiwan,

If only one could turn back time.

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 7):
Can MH reroute its LAX flight through PVG? Else another optoin is KIX

I think this is where the 5th freedom right will take in place. Not all country can simply grant it to a foreign airline whislt each have their own flag carriers.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 8):
Just when the MEX-LAX-MEX sectors had outperformed LAX-TYO v v in terms of generated revenue, and arrived to their break even point, the Mexican government terminates 5th freedom rights and kills MAS Mexico operations.

I see. I have no idea about it. Thank you for the information. Do you somehow related with MH's operation in Mexico?

Quoting Horus (Reply 9):
any idea what the status of their twice weekly KUL-CAI-KUL B772 flights?

Horus, unfortunately I have no information about it. But I suppose for those routes which are not in the 'radar', they can be considered as safe and are likely to remain in MH's network. Cairo must be an important route as MH sent their 772 there. Even DXB is served by 330.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 10):
Cairo must be an important route as MH sent their 772 there. Even DXB is served by 330.

I do not understand how a route that is operated with a mere twice weekly frequency can possibly be called important. If it were important, wouldn't MH rush to add frequencies? Sure enough, DXB is served with the A330, but does the deployment of a smaller aircraft represent smaller importance? Both the A330 and the B772 are 2-class aircraft, and CAI is served twice weekly whereas DXB receives 5 weekly flights. I think DXB is quite a bit more meaningful than CAI.

With regard to routes like CAI, IST and EZE, which are served twice weekly, I find it surprising that, in these days of increasing importance of reinforced frequencies in order to capture all important premium traffic, such routes could possibly be financially sustainable. Yet, MH apparently can make it work. Wouldn't they be better of to seek some interline or codeshare deal in the Middle East, whereby MH would fly to some gateway with acceptable frequency and subsequently route its passengers via this gateway to other Middle Eastern destinations.

Incidentally, whatever happened to the twice weekly BEY flights? Last thing I heard was that the route would be temporarily relocated to DAM, but nothing is to be found in the reservation systems, and also BEY seems to be off the schedule for the next season.
 
odie
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:50 am

Cairo, Istanbul, Dubai, Beirut, Stockholm, New York, and even Frankfurt are the last few destinations that are currently being reviewed by MH. It’s safe to say that Stockholm and New York are done with, unless they plan to re-route either these destinations via another city. Zurich is probably a high yield destination for MH as it is one of the first few destinations to receive NSD aircraft/service continuously. I would imagine that Zurich will be profitable if MH increases its frequencies to Zurich and attract more premium passengers on this route.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
With regard to routes like CAI, IST and EZE, which are served twice weekly, I find it surprising that, in these days of increasing importance of reinforced frequencies in order to capture all important premium traffic, such routes could possibly be financially sustainable.

I don’t think these routes are financially sustainable. The cost, especially crew cost, for operating twice weekly flights to Buenos Aires, Cairo and Istanbul is astronomical.
 
Econojetter
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Daily flights to CDG are a natural next step for MH, and although the French Government is notoriously stingy when it comes to giving out the rights, I would expect this increase to be facilitated by a possible future entrance of MH into Skyteam which might see AF condesharing on the CDG-KUL flights.

Again I question, is MH still being blocked from flying daily into CDG? I recall (and iirc Odie also brought this up a few threads ago) that MH had 6x weekly in the system at some point (before the SARS outbreak in 2003?) but never actually flew the 6th frequency? Also, having AF codeshare on a daily MH-operated service before seeing AF metal in KUL makes sense, SkyTeam membership or not.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
It looks a done deal by now that the KUL-ARN-EWR route will be axed soon, and I do not believe that MH is considering to keep ARN online either. Most Scandinavian destinations can be served easily through AMS via interline and codeshare agreements with KLM.

I would guess that demand at the ARN station is very seasonal. Could MH consider running seasonal ARN-KUL charters?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
The axing of EWR might provoke additional frequencies into LAX, which seems like the right thing to do for MH. Daily flights into LAX might improve the yields, which have been suffering since the airline reduced its offerings there and gave up the NRT stopover.

Even a daily LAX service would likely be an uphill task in a field that is already very crowded. Again, I think a MH-KE transpacific co-operation is worth exploring, and should help the case for SkyTeam membership.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
deployment of a smaller aircraft represent smaller importance? Both the A330 and the B772 are 2-class aircraft, and CAI is served twice weekly whereas DXB receives 5 weekly flights. I think DXB is quite a bit more meaningful than CAI

I guess the B772, when possible, would be chosen for routes that are considered more 'premium.' That said, CAI doesn't really come across as a station that sees a lot of business traffic. DXB does indeed seem meaningful, but MH has EK to contend with on that route. It seems noteworthy that after quite a number of years flying into KUL, EK's frequency is only at 9x weekly and there is no shortage of capacity (nice DXB hub analysis, by the way, HB-IWC).

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
possibly be financially sustainable. Yet, MH apparently can make it work. Wouldn't they be better of to seek some interline or codeshare deal in the Middle East, whereby MH would fly to some gateway with acceptable frequency and subsequently route its passengers via this gateway to other Middle Eastern destinations.

Hopefully, the new GF-codeshare will expand to address this in the future. BAH and MCT seem to be behind and weaker as hubs, compared to DXB, DOH and AUH, but a possibility nonetheless.

Quoting Odie (Reply 12):
these destinations via another city. Zurich is probably a high yield destination for MH as it is one of the first few destinations to receive NSD aircraft/service continuously. I would imagine that Zurich will be profitable if MH increases its frequencies to Zurich and attract more premium passengers on this route.

That's what I noticed as well. But then again, ZRH could be a favorite child due to some other reasons. What an unfortunate time for MH's European routes to suffer. In the good old days, MH had to worry mostly about SQ and TG. Today, there are additonal big and growing traffic hoovers - EK and QR - in the way.
 
Horus
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To S

Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 10):
Horus, unfortunately I have no information about it. But I suppose for those routes which are not in the 'radar', they can be considered as safe and are likely to remain in MH's network. Cairo must be an important route as MH sent their 772 there. Even DXB is served by 330.



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
Both the A330 and the B772 are 2-class aircraft, and CAI is served twice weekly whereas DXB receives 5 weekly flights. I think DXB is quite a bit more meaningful than CAI.



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
With regard to routes like CAI, IST and EZE, which are served twice weekly, I find it surprising that, in these days of increasing importance of reinforced frequencies in order to capture all important premium traffic, such routes could possibly be financially sustainable. Yet, MH apparently can make it work. Wouldn't they be better of to seek some interline or codeshare deal in the Middle East, whereby MH would fly to some gateway with acceptable frequency and subsequently route its passengers via this gateway to other Middle Eastern destinations.



Quoting Odie (Reply 12):
I don't think these routes are financially sustainable. The cost, especially crew cost, for operating twice weekly flights to Buenos Aires, Cairo and Istanbul is astronomical.



Quoting Econojetter (Reply 13):
I guess the B772, when possible, would be chosen for routes that are considered more 'premium.' That said, CAI doesn't really come across as a station that sees a lot of business traffic. DXB does indeed seem meaningful, but MH has EK to contend with on that route. It seems noteworthy that after quite a number of years flying into KUL, EK's frequency is only at 9x weekly and there is no shortage of capacity (nice DXB hub analysis, by the way, HB-IWC).

Well it's interesting to read the different accounts of how CAI is doing. It would be unfortunate for them to discontinue CAI because I think MH can make the route work if they aggressively market their non-stop Asian service (and consequently one-stop service to Australia). I must admit the use of the B777 as opposed to the A330 is a good sign but 3x weekly A330 flights would work better (both SQ(B773) and KE(A333) offer 3x weekly flights). Egyptair themselves were to launch KUL flights back in 2002. Flights were to start 09JUL02 operating CAI-KUL-SYD using A340s on Tuesdays and Fridays however the drop in passenger numbers following 9/11 followed by the SARS outbreak and Iraq War meant it never materialised. It does indicate the market is there though.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
planemanofnz
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:58 am

I hope AKL does not go. MH are well respected here and they do offer such an amazing product. Unfortunately, like someone said earlier here in the thread, MH is over-shadowed by neighbour carriers like SQ and CX. The main thing MH need to do to get theirselves out there and more known, is to join an alliance. Skyteam would be good, but Oneworld should not be overlooked.
 
MAS777
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 13):
Even a daily LAX service would likely be an uphill task in a field that is already very crowded. Again, I think a MH-KE transpacific co-operation is worth exploring, and should help the case for SkyTeam membership.



Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 15):
is to join an alliance. Skyteam would be good, but Oneworld should not be overlooked.

but what if the big wigs at AF continue to say NON?

MH is already poising itself to become invaluable to Skyteam.

MH already code-shares on a variety of routes with KL. MH also code-shares with KE on the Malaysia-Seoul routes. I gather NW codes are also applied on some MH routes now.

As the latest reports suggest - Alitalia, Jet and China Southern code-shares are in the pipeline.

If you ask me MH is certainly looking for a back-door entrance into Skyteam which would see AF caving in to the demands of its fellow members to make MH their SEAsian link in the network - which does still remain a void at Skyteam...
 
jfk777
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:09 am

MAS should concentrate on flying to the US West Coast. Flying to New York has been in vain for prestige. I think MAS should invest in 772LR and fly to LAX NONSTOP from KUL. Then the next stop should be SFO.
 
MH1402
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
In their inflight magazine, Going Places, the July issue stated they have 17 744s. In the August issue, the number was reduced to only 13. So there's 4 744s being pulled off from the fleet. Not sure if it was a typo.

It's ironic when Going Places says MH has only 13 B747 while MH website still show 17 B747, 17 B777, even 5 Twin Otter and 10 Fokker 50 as of August 10. 2006.
For the King and country...
 
odie
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting MH1402 (Reply 18):
It's ironic when Going Places says MH has only 13 B747 while MH website still show 17 B747, 17 B777, even 5 Twin Otter and 10 Fokker 50 as of August 10. 2006.

MH is incapable of updating their website. They still haven't upload the new B772 and B744 configuration. Nothing new there.
 
USADreamliner
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 2):
I think they should drop CPT-EZE

Because..? Reasons, explanation, numbers?



usadreamliner
 
9MMAR
Topic Author
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
I do not understand how a route that is operated with a mere twice weekly frequency can possibly be called important. If it were important, wouldn't MH rush to add frequencies? Sure enough, DXB is served with the A330, but does the deployment of a smaller aircraft represent smaller importance? Both the A330 and the B772 are 2-class aircraft, and CAI is served twice weekly whereas DXB receives 5 weekly flights. I think DXB is quite a bit more meaningful than CAI.

I give my comment based on my point of view as a pessenger. MH's 772s were sent to 'important' routes like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and Europe. 330/2s were sent to less important (or maybe less glamourous I should say) like India, South Asia, Middle East (except for Jeddah and Cairo), South East Asia and some Chinese routes. MH would never sent their 330/332 to ADL or KIX for instance. It is a well known fact that 330/332s are less superior aircraft in term of product offerings. No ptvs, no IFE like in 772s and such. That's why when they sent their 772s to Cairo, I regard the route as important. They are the sole player on the route. MH is not a big player in the DXB-KUL route. EK conquers the market with their 9x per week service in 772/3s. MH offers 3x non stop per week and 2x per week with a stop over in Karachi, all on the 330/2s.
 
Horus
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 21):
I give my comment based on my point of view as a pessenger. MH's 772s were sent to 'important' routes like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and Europe. 330/2s were sent to less important (or maybe less glamourous I should say) like India, South Asia, Middle East (except for Jeddah and Cairo), South East Asia and some Chinese routes. MH would never sent their 330/332 to ADL or KIX for instance. It is a well known fact that 330/332s are less superior aircraft in term of product offerings. No ptvs, no IFE like in 772s and such. That's why when they sent their 772s to Cairo, I regard the route as important. They are the sole player on the route. MH is not a big player in the DXB-KUL route. EK conquers the market with their 9x per week service in 772/3s. MH offers 3x non stop per week and 2x per week with a stop over in Karachi, all on the 330/2s.

Your A330/B772 argument seems to make sense if the product difference is that wide. And as you said none of MH's 5x weekly DXB flights are dedicated to the UAE market; 2 stop in KHI and 3 used to continue to BEY and soon DAM if A.net rumours are anything to go by. 9MMAR, in your personal opinion do you think CAI flights are safe for the foreseeable future?


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 21):
It is a well known fact that 330/332s are less superior aircraft in term of product offerings. No ptvs, no IFE like in 772s and such.

The A332s are ex Sabena and Swissair aircraft and do offer PTVs and a 60 inch seat pitch, which is much roomier than the A333s which were originally delivered to MH.

As for the CAI route, the point remains that MH cannot possibly be capturing a lot of premium traffic on that route. A twice weekly service will simply not cut the cake to attract any frequency sensitive front cabin traffic.
 
Horus
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 23):
As for the CAI route, the point remains that MH cannot possibly be capturing a lot of premium traffic on that route. A twice weekly service will simply not cut the cake to attract any frequency sensitive front cabin traffic.

Not identical but certain Europe-Africa services (e.g CDG-LAD) lack frequency but are very lucrative. If demand on the route is high and capacity limited then this will drive up the average fare, even in Y (e.g. EK recently substituted some of their low-density 777 flights to CAI for high-density versions (i.e.loss of some premium cabin seats) because yields in Y were very high). I'm almost certain MH are restricted due to the Malaysia/Egypt bilateral agreement however this could be rectified if they agree to codeshare with MS on the route.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Robbie86
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:31 am

Maybee they can change KUL-ARN-EWR to KUL-ARN-LAXBig grin
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 20):

Because..? Reasons, explanation, numbers?

Because low frequency and they could find a codeshare partner. I seriously doubt that it is profitable and a 2 stop service from KUL wouldn't be that appealing other than the fact that not many others fly the route. You could go via AKL or Europe 1 stop from KUL to South America with a change of airline.

Interesting comments, I certainly wish MH all the best!
 
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 24):
Not identical but certain Europe-Africa services (e.g CDG-LAD) lack frequency but are very lucrative. If demand on the route is high and capacity limited then this will drive up the average fare, even in Y

The situation for flights to LAD, where it is impossible for the airlines involved to add frequencies because of government restrictions - AF, BA and SN are not restricting themselves to one weekly frequency to protect Y yield; if given half the chance, these airlines would immediately add frequencies to LAD - , is very different from the one faced by MH at CAI, where passengers have multiple daily alternatives with other airlines. Why would a premium passengers traveling between South East Asia and Egypt choose MH for his travels if there are so many alternatives with high frequency by the likes of EK, QR, GF and EY available, not to talk about alternatives via Europe.

Sure enough, SQ only has three frequencies of its own into CAI, a number which is these days considered the absolute mimimum to sustain a commercially viable operation, yet let's not kid ourselves, no matter how great their service, MH does not have the same standing as SQ, particularly here in South East Asia, where a certain group of people will only fly SQ, no matter what.

As such, I have my doubts about the commercial viability of the CAI service, although MH says they can make it work, but then again, MH has said that of so many services, until it transpired earlier this year that hardly any of their international and virtually none of their domestic flights were making money. I for sure don't buy into the argument that the deployment of the B772 points at a premium route. The aircraft could very well be there because there is no alternative available that fits into the schedule. The A333 would anyway have problems making the nonstop to CAI without weight restrictions and the number of A332s in the fleet is restricted and shrinking.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 22):
Your A330/B772 argument seems to make sense if the product difference is that wide. And as you said none of MH's 5x weekly DXB flights are dedicated to the UAE market; 2 stop in KHI and 3 used to continue to BEY and soon DAM if A.net rumours are anything to go by. 9MMAR, in your personal opinion do you think CAI flights are safe for the foreseeable future?

MH has already diverted its 3x per week KUL-DXB-BEY to DAM in July. I have posted a thread about this, which can be found here http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2899352
However, the service has been terminated because MH only applied to fly the route up until 28 August 2006. During the time, MH included Damascus in its online booking destination in their website. It has since being withdrawn.

My personal opinion stands firm that Cairo will remain in MH's network. Mostly because of fact that Egypt is a country where Malaysia exports their students to study, mostly in Islamic studies and medicine, in the same league as the UK, the US and Australia. University al Azhar in Cairo is very popular in Malaysia.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 23):
The A332s are ex Sabena and Swissair aircraft and do offer PTVs and a 60 inch seat pitch, which is much roomier than the A333s which were originally delivered to MH.

But that's in C class. If you do some search, there's a lot of negative comments about it as it didn't up to MH's reputation. I think they do not offer ptv in the Y class.

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 25):
Maybee they can change KUL-ARN-EWR to KUL-ARN-LAX?

If MH continue to send its 772s to serve the proposed route, is the frame capable of flying from ARN to LAX? Is it within its range. I am just being slack of finding the distance between the two airports.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 27):
Sure enough, SQ only has three frequencies of its own into CAI, a number which is these days considered the absolute mimimum to sustain a commercially viable operation, yet let's not kid ourselves, no matter how great their service, MH does not have the same standing as SQ, particularly here in South East Asia, where a certain group of people will only fly SQ, no matter what.

But if we are talking about Cairo, an important point has to take into consideration. MH serve halal food onboard, on all routes. SQ don't. Although one can ask for a Muslim meal on SQ, I think the majority wouldn't want to take that hassle.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 2):
How about AKL and ADL, how are they doing? Since AKL is scheduled as a 5 weekly 772 over the Southern Summer compared to a daily 744 in the past.

I talked to a MH AKL rep today and they said that dropping down to 772 was the best thing that had happened to the route cost-wise and that 5x weekly was fine. Given that MH has overall been doing much better the past 2 quarters, its fairly safe to say that AKL will be maintained in the short-medium term. If Fuel prices don't go higher then it's pretty safe.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 15):
I hope AKL does not go. MH are well respected here and they do offer such an amazing product. Unfortunately, like someone said earlier here in the thread, MH is over-shadowed by neighbour carriers like SQ and CX. The main thing MH need to do to get theirselves out there and more known, is to join an alliance. Skyteam would be good, but Oneworld should not be overlooked.

Agreed... Skyteam or Oneworld. Definantly not Star as MH are surrounded on either side by SQ and TG who have similar products and services. Skyteam could do with MH the most and since MH works quite closely with KLM it would be the obvious choice.
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LAXintl
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
If MH continue to send its 772s to serve the proposed route, is the frame capable of flying from ARN to LAX? Is it within its range. I am just being slack of finding the distance between the two airports.

MH be nuts routing LAX over Europe.

Routing ARN would be significantly a longer route then the current service via Taipei.

KUL-TPE-LAX 8811mi
KUL-ARN-LAX 11358mi
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XA744
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 31):
MH be nuts routing LAX over Europe.

Routing ARN would be significantly a longer route then the current service via Taipei.

I concur. Both, Pax´s fatigue and aircraft utilization issues would never permit it !!!

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
Econojetter
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
But that's in C class. If you do some search, there's a lot of negative comments about it as it didn't up to MH's reputation. I think they do not offer ptv in the Y class.

The leased A330-200 (ex-SR, SN) airframes do have PTV in economy. The A330-300 (both leased and PMB-owned) airframes do not have PTV.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 28):
My personal opinion stands firm that Cairo will remain in MH's network. Mostly because of fact that Egypt is a country where Malaysia exports their students to study, mostly in Islamic studies and medicine, in the same league as the

Student traffic is concentrated around school holidays since I doubt students travel back and forth when classes are in session, i.e. cannot be used to justify a year-round service.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
But if we are talking about Cairo, an important point has to take into consideration. MH serve halal food onboard, on all routes. SQ don't. Although one can ask for a Muslim meal on SQ, I think the majority wouldn't want to take that

That would be true for Muslim passengers and I wonder what the percentage is. If it were a major issue, I suspect SQ might address it by ensuring only halal options on the CAI service. SQ does offer Indian vegetarian as a standard choice on certain transpacific flights that receive substantial connecting traffic from India.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
But that's in C class. If you do some search, there's a lot of negative comments about it as it didn't up to MH's reputation. I think they do not offer ptv in the Y class.

I think you are talking about the A333s, most of which were originally delivered to MH. The A332s, all originating at Swissair and Sabena, feature PTVs throughout the entire aircraft and a very generous seat pitch in business class.
 
Econojetter
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 16):
If you ask me MH is certainly looking for a back-door entrance into Skyteam which would see AF caving in to the demands of its fellow members to make MH their SEAsian link in the network - which does still remain a void at Skyteam...

And its application for membership would be much more persuasive if it would drop ZRH, FRA and utilize KLM connections via AMS. Likewise, LAX could be served via a KE-operated interline/codeshare at ICN instead of sending MH metal via TPE. If MH would expand its co-operation with KE and develop one with CZ (which the Malaysian media has already mentioned), I'd guess that SkyTeam members would be more welcoming.

From what I know, NW still does not codeshare with MH. The timings of NW's NRT/KIX/NGO transpacific arrivals and MH's Japan-KUL/BKI departures force an overnight in Japan on the westbound.

I am also hoping for a MH-CZ partnership that will give BKI more options via CAN. That should allow MH to compete more effectively against AK in Borneo.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 30):
I talked to a MH AKL rep today and they said that dropping down to 772 was the best thing that had happened to the route cost-wise and that 5x weekly was fine. Given that MH has overall been doing much better the past 2 quarters, its fairly safe to say that AKL will be maintained in the short-medium term. If Fuel prices don't go higher then it's pretty safe.

Well I don't think there is much demand for F for MH to AKL so a 2 class 772 is fine though overall last year the daily 744's were very full so i'd not be surprised to see dailies over the summer even if the 744's fly some flights and are sold as 2 class. Good to hear that they seem to be doing ok. They are short of 772 size aircraft though.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 34):
I think you are talking about the A333s, most of which were originally delivered to MH. The A332s, all originating at Swissair and Sabena, feature PTVs throughout the entire aircraft and a very generous seat pitch in business class.

Right. It's MH's 330.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 33):
Student traffic is concentrated around school holidays since I doubt students travel back and forth when classes are in session, i.e. cannot be used to justify a year-round service.

How about the Umrah bound travellers? It was all year round and CAI is definitely a popular destination for Ziarah, before or after performing the Umrah.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 33):
That would be true for Muslim passengers and I wonder what the percentage is. If it were a major issue, I suspect SQ might address it by ensuring only halal options on the CAI service. SQ does offer Indian vegetarian as a standard choice on certain transpacific flights that receive substantial connecting traffic from India.

That is a MAJOR concern. Giving Singapore's location (where Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei are the nearest neighbours, and all of which are Muslim majority countries and their respective flag carriers, MH, GA and Royal Brunei serve all halal food onboard), I personally think that some Muslim are kind of have a thought that SQ serves halal food onboard as well, which is unfortunately not true. It is a plaguing problem. I have a lot of Muslim Indonesian friends who were shocked to hear about it from me because they thought what they consumed onboard the SQ flights are halal. Most Malaysian know about this fact. And this tiny fact remains the single factor why I haven't fly the great Singapore Airlines as of today.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 37):
I personally think that some Muslim are kind of have a thought that SQ serves halal food onboard as well, which is unfortunately not true. It is a plaguing problem.

Unfortunately?! While I have absolutely no problem that you restrict yourself to eating Halal food, you should not even consider to impose that on others. How could the fact that SQ does not serve halal food be a plaguing problem? It's not like they announce that their food offerings are halal and then secretly add pork fat to the breakfast sausages. So, I don't see a single problem with SQ's not serving halal food.

Your remarks bring back bad memories of certain groups here in Jakarta who are trying to prevent me and others of eating or, god forbid, drinking a beer during ramadhan. I have no problem that Muslims are deciding to observe fasting, but they shouldn't impose it on non-Muslims. Last time I checked Indonesia, Malaysia and for sure Singapore are not Muslim countries. Both Malaysia and Indonesia have very sizeable non-Muslim minorities. As a matter of fact, the Freedom of Religion is part of the country's Constitution. Let's leave it that way.

So if you decide not to fly SQ for religious reasons that is perfectly fine with me, but don't even try to discredit the airline by making statements like its not serving halal food is a plaguing problem...
 
LAXintl
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:46 pm

Well instead of integrating with more Skyteam airlines or at least US partners, Delta announced that MH will no longer be a member of its Skymiles program.

Mileage accrual ends 31DEC06, while all award travel has to be completed by 31DEC07.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MH1402
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:05 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 38):
Last time I checked Indonesia, Malaysia and for sure Singapore are not Muslim countries. Both Malaysia and Indonesia have very sizeable non-Muslim minorities. As a matter of fact, the Freedom of Religion is part of the country's Constitution.

On the contrary Indonesia and Malaysia are Muslim countries. They have always been Muslim countries. In both country's Constitution also says both a Muslim countries. But the Freedom of Religion is guaranteed also by both Constitutions.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 38):
So if you decide not to fly SQ for religious reasons that is perfectly fine with me, but don't even try to discredit the airline by making statements like its not serving halal food is a plaguing problem...

And I agreed with you on this.  Smile It your own job to find whether Halal food is being served or not. Don't just simply assume. It's your own fault if your assumption is wrong. Dont blame the Airlines
For the King and country...
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:05 pm

My oh my...

The plaguing problem I meant is that 'a Muslim flying on SQ not knowing he/she had consumed non halal food onboard - much to the fact because they don't ask for the food's status or taking the matter lightly mostly because of this thought "Giving Singapore's location (where Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei are the nearest neighbours, and all of which are Muslim majority countries and their respective flag carriers, MH, GA and Royal Brunei serve all halal food onboard), I personally think that some Muslim are kind of have a thought that SQ serves halal food onboard as well, which is unfortunately not true." and later on became shocked or mad of not being informed.' The plaguing problem is not referred to SQ for serving non halal food onboard. I hope I made myself clear. You misunderstood my statement.

Of course SQ serves halal food for routes like JED or its haj charter for instance.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 38):
Your remarks bring back bad memories of certain groups here in Jakarta who are trying to prevent me and others of eating or, god forbid, drinking a beer during ramadhan. I have no problem that Muslims are deciding to observe fasting, but they shouldn't impose it on non-Muslims.

After spending years in Indonesia I thought you have known the country very well. Even in Malaysia, eating in public by non muslim in Ramadhan is considered as 'taboo' although they are not subjected to it. (In Malaysia) they are advised to eat in a place where most public can't see them (as the majority are muslim) as a sign of respect to the fasting month and their muslim friends. Some of my non muslim friends even skip lunch just to not offend me. They even apologise if they saw me saw them eating. So, if that's the case in Malaysia, the emphasize should be more in Indonesia as the people are more sensitive to these kind of issues and the muslim here constitute 90% of the total population (I suppose you know that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world). This is a multi religions, multi racial countries we are talking about where 'R E S P E C T' is very important. Although you can argue that the enforcer should respect your beliefs as well by allowing you to eat whatever in the public during the fasting month, your act can caused some muslim to break their fast, because they are indeed hungry and dehidrated. And although you can argue that it is not your problem, it is not the right way of thinking I should say. Of course you have your own opinion and I respect that. So I am hoping you treat mine the same.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 38):
Last time I checked Indonesia, Malaysia and for sure Singapore are not Muslim countries.

An except from Wikipedia, Malaysia is a multi-religious society, and Islam is the country's official religion. The four main religions are Islam (60.4% of the population), Buddhism (19.2%), Christianity (9.1%, mostly in East Malaysia, i.e., Borneo), and Hinduism (6.3%), according to government census figures in 2000.

Hey, I have posted a specially dedicated thread regarding this halal topic. Maybe you would like to give a posting or two... Which Airlines Serve All Halal Food Onboard? (by 9MMAR Sep 2 2006 in Civil Aviation)
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:11 pm

Quoting MH1402 (Reply 40):
On the contrary Indonesia and Malaysia are Muslim countries. They have always been Muslim countries. In both country's Constitution also says both a Muslim countries. But the Freedom of Religion is guaranteed also by both Constitutions.

At least for Indonesia, where I currently work and live, the Constitution does not mention that the country is a Muslim State. It mentions a belief in one supreme God without specifying who or what this God actually is.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 41):
The plaguing problem I meant is that 'a Muslim flying on SQ not knowing he/she had consumed non halal food onboard

I would imagine that this is very much the person's problem. The airline does not explicitly state that it serves halal food, and as such Muslims could perfectly ask for a Muslim meal. No need to blame the airline for that.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 41):
After spending years in Indonesia I thought you have known the country very well. Even in Malaysia, eating in public by non muslim in Ramadhan is considered as 'taboo' although they are not subjected to it. (In Malaysia) they are advised to eat in a place where most public can't see them (as the majority are muslim) as a sign of respect to the fasting month and their muslim friends. Some of my non muslim friends even skip lunch just to not offend me. They even apologise if they saw me saw them eating. So, if that's the case in Malaysia, the emphasize should be more in Indonesia as the people are more sensitive to these kind of issues and the muslim here constitute 90% of the total population (I suppose you know that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world). This is a multi religions, multi racial countries we are talking about where 'R E S P E C T' is very important. Although you can argue that the enforcer should respect your beliefs as well by allowing you to eat whatever in the public during the fasting month, your act can caused some muslim to break their fast, because they are indeed hungry and dehidrated. And although you can argue that it is not your problem, it is not the right way of thinking I should say. Of course you have your own opinion and I respect that.

I think this is not the right forum to discuss this issue, but I always thought that the whole issue of Ramadhan was for Muslims to struggle with the temptation, so I don't see the point of my offending them by eating is public. Luckily, here in Jakarta we mostly don't have issues with eating in public. It is just certain groups who are trying to ban non-Muslims from doing so.

As for respect, do you mind my asking where is the respect from Muslims to non-Muslims when trying to impose their religion. And where is the respect from Muslims to non-Muslims when waking up everyone and his uncle at 3am because it is the time for the pre dawn meal? Wouldn't it be a sing of respect to at least reduce the noise and let the others have their night's rest?

I have been here in Indonesia long enough and gone through these discussions one too many times to still go for some of the arguments brought up here. Anyway, this is not the right forum. My point was that SQ is not to be blamed for not serving halal food.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 42):
I would imagine that this is very much the person's problem. The airline does not explicitly state that it serves halal food, and as such Muslims could perfectly ask for a Muslim meal. No need to blame the airline for that.

That is what I meant.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 42):
As for respect, do you mind my asking where is the respect from Muslims to non-Muslims when trying to impose their religion. And where is the respect from Muslims to non-Muslims when waking up everyone and his uncle at 3am because it is the time for the pre dawn meal? Wouldn't it be a sing of respect to at least reduce the noise and let the others have their night's rest?

I'll PM you about this matter.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 42):
My point was that SQ is not to be blamed for not serving halal food.

Again as I mentioned, it is not what I meant. If I were to make the statement, i.e. to discredit SQ for serving non halal food onboard as a plaguing problem, I would have included TG, Philippines Airlines, Vietnam Airlines so on and so fouth in the statement, as all too served non halal food onboard. In fact, the majority of the airlines in the world did.
 
777way
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:10 pm

Newark and Stockholm being dropped from January.
 
Econojetter
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 37):
How about the Umrah bound travellers? It was all year round and CAI is definitely a popular destination for Ziarah, before or after performing the Umrah.

I didn't know that. Are there other popular Ziarah destinations besides CAI? Are these high yielding fares or does MH offer a substantial discount for special purpose trips?

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 37):
That is a MAJOR concern. Giving Singapore's location (where Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei are the nearest neighbours, and all of which are Muslim majority countries and their respective flag carriers, MH, GA and Royal Brunei serve all halal food onboard), I personally think that some Muslim are kind of have a thought that SQ serves halal food onboard as well, which is unfortunately not true. It is a plaguing problem. I have a lot of Muslim Indonesian friends who were shocked to hear about it from me because they thought what they consumed onboard the SQ flights are halal. Most Malaysian know about this fact. And this tiny fact remains the single factor why I haven't fly the great Singapore Airlines as of today.

I guess you may have assumed that SQ's customer base is composed of the same percentage of Muslims, Christians, Buddhists etc. as the religious composition of the Southeast Asia. However, this is not true. If it were a major issue that SQ had failed to address, it would have been a windfall for MH. That doesn't seem to be the case.

SQ has never guaranteed halal food on its standard catering. It is kind of you to correct those have that mistaken assumption about SQ. Maybe they will still consider flying SQ and ordering Muslim meals. Perhaps they might consider setting up a KrisFlyer profile with SQ stating their preferences (including meal preferences) so as to reduce the risk of the special meal not being loaded onto the flight. If that is unacceptable, give MH, GA and BI the benefit of their business. Do also mention (to those who might be offended) that MH does serve alcohol on board, so that they are not shocked by the view of cabin crew coming down the aisle with wine offerings or trays of beer. Especially the latter, because beer in plastic cups looks deceptively like apple juice, only with a bit more foam; really need to pay attention to what the crew is saying.
 
bkkair
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:54 pm

Sadly, 777way is correct. ARN & EWR are dropped. The availability in Amadeus has been zeroed out.

I'm sure it was not an easy decision to drop a major city like NYC (and ARN) but shows MH are willing to make hard choices.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 45):
I didn't know that. Are there other popular Ziarah destinations besides CAI? Are these high yielding fares or does MH offer a substantial discount for special purpose trips?

Yes, some other popular destinations are Istanbul and Amman (usually a destination where there are a lot of Islamic historical sites). Almost all Umrah trip were on tour companies, so they are not in the high yield fare category. The fare is in the same category with the fare for other vacation trips offered by a tour company. Umrah bound flights are not a charter flight, different with the Haj bound flights. In MH's case, the 3x flights on 744 to JED are mainly to serve this purpose all year long. But there is a high yield fare, 'Business Class' Umrah trip which cost double. Most won't opt for it.

Quoting Econojetter (Reply 45):
Do also mention (to those who might be offended) that MH does serve alcohol on board, so that they are not shocked by the view of cabin crew coming down the aisle with wine offerings or trays of beer.

Most Malaysian especially the muslim are aware of this. It was once a major issue, when MH was struggling with its financial situation several years back, and there was a suggestion that Lembaga Tabung Haji (Malaysia's premier Haj foundation, with billions of Ringgit to spare) to take over the airline. Almost all Tabung Haji depositors (including myself) against the idea, as their money will be invested in a non halal business, much to the fact that they know MH serves alcoholic beverages onboard. The issue was settled when the Malaysian government, through its agency, Penerbangan Nasional Berhad took over MH until now. Tabung Haji continues to invest its billions of Ringgit cash in a definite halal businesses, such as plantation and property development. This is extremely important for Tabung Haji's depositors as their money is going to be used to pay for their Haj expenses someday.
 
Econojetter
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RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 47):
Yes, some other popular destinations are Istanbul and Amman (usually a destination where there are a lot of Islamic historical sites). Almost all Umrah trip were on tour companies, so they are not in the high yield fare category. The fare is in the same category with the fare for other vacation trips

Interesting information, thanks.

I just read over at the Malaysian forums that CAI is going to be dropped early 2007, or at least there are such indications. It is likely that the current oil prices force MH to charge fares that this leisure market cannot support. Perhaps Airbus Lover or Odie can confirm.

Overall, I am concerned that, while the yield has gone up (MH includes fuel surcharges in this calculation), demand is softening as a result. MH has to be more aggressive in cost-cutting. Some services, even when stripped of most frills, might still be too costly to operate. The GF codeshare has the potential to be expanded to include connections via BAH/MCT to places like CAI, with greater frequency than 2x weekly.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 47):
Most Malaysian especially the muslim are aware of this. It was once a major issue, when MH was struggling with its financial situation several years back, and there was a suggestion that Lembaga Tabung Haji (Malaysia's premier Haj foundation, with billions of Ringgit to spare) to take over the airline. Almost all Tabung Haji depositors (including myself) against the idea, as their money will be invested in a non halal business, much to the fact that they know MH serves alcoholic beverages

I recall (I may be mistaken) that Tabung Haji had a small shareholding in MH. Did they sell off their shares during the 2001 widespread asset unbundling (WAU) when Penerbangan Malaysia Bhd (PMB) was formed?
 
lutfi
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

RE: MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:20 pm

Heh, I used to live in Indonesia, and am Muslim. And I used to eat and drink during the day during Ramadhan. If I want to be a bad muslim, that is between me and Allah, and other people should keep out of it… It is also possible to stop being a muslim in Indonesia – unlike Malaysia. My wife has now become a Buddhist (used to be Muslim) and it was OK with the authorities.

Most of the airport staff don’t fast fully – working on the ramp all day in the sun is dangerous without water, so they just skip food.


Indonesia may be muslim majority, but it is not islamic. The government will likely soon declare shariah law unconstitutional (some local administrations have been applying shariah, but much of shariah is in conflict with the constitution)

Of course, I do bear a grudge against Malaysia for harbouring terrorists - most of JI spent time in Malaysia, Malaysians were the main bomb makers and plotters in Bali, and it is no coincidence that the border region of Thailand with Malaysia is now a war zone, with muslim maniacs gunning down monks and teachers. But because UMNO is scared of PAS, they turn a blind eye to what is going on

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