britannia191a
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:31 am

Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:49 pm

Hiya
I am a big fan of Athens as I have been going there since I was 3 and have family living in Alimos.

I used to remember the days when a number of charter airlines such as Britannia, JMC (Thomas Cook) and few others use to fly direct to Athens.

I know its not the first thought as a holiday destination but there are a lot people from England from Manchester having to fly via a european hub just to get there. I recently flew via Frankfurt with Lufthansa and there was quite a few doing the same. The coast south of Athens, Glyfada, Voula, Vouliagmeni, all the the way to Sounion, is a beautiful coastline.

Easyjet flies from LTN/LGW
BA&Olympic from LHR
Olympic from Man - not a great flight ive done it.

So isnt this maybe a market for Easyjet from LPL or Thomson from Man.

I just feel there seems to be a lack of access to such a beautiful city and mainland.
 
CYatUK
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:21 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Thread starter):
So isnt this maybe a market for Easyjet from LPL or Thomson from Man.

Given the huge number of Greek students studying at Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, Leeds and Newcastle a low cost connection between Athens and either Liverpool or Manchester would be justified.

At the moment (and due to OA flying only twice per week to Man) most people travel to Athens via other countries.
CY@Uk
 
macc
Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:11 pm

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:19 pm

well, I can only say that this is what pixxxxes me since a long time. air fares from VIE to ATH are quite high. OS and OA only have a single connection each day, except for summer, when OS has a second plane running. but flight times are unconvenient and that forces me to go via MUC or FRA a lot of times.

in winter times, fares can be picked around 160 € or 220 €, but beginning of March, they get up to 265 € minimum. April and May the cheapest to get is around 380 to 420€.

Low cost operation from VIE is ridiculous to non-existent...

Just booked VIE-MUC-ATH on 14 SEP using my miles...
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:20 pm

Well of coursei it doesn't help that Athens airport has some of the highest airport fees in the world. Perhaps a reduction there might see some stimultion from the LCCs - but then that would kill off Olympic of course  Yeah sure
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
britannia191a
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:31 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
Well of coursei it doesn't help that Athens airport has some of the highest airport fees in the world. Perhaps a reduction there might see some stimultion from the LCCs - but then that would kill off Olympic of course

Well taking your comments how is it the Easyjet can run flights from LTN and LGW. It isnt about the fees in that case but the market from the Northern Airports i.e Man /LPL/NCL/LBA/BHX. I believe there is a market to be sought there.

Also Air Scotland have flights from GLA.

Each time I go to Athens I have to fly to Fra or Muc with Lufthansa. Dont get me wrong they are a great Airline but would prefer a direct flight.

You second point about Olympic, they have been in trouble for a number of years so I dont think a daily flight from Manchester would kill them off, more like they debts and management will
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:28 pm

If there was a market, then you would have a service.
 
britannia191a
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:31 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting Jasond (Reply 5):
If there was a market, then you would have a service

Thanks for that little comment. Thats not always the case. New routes are being formed and successful ones and you could have said that before an airline has formed that succesful route.
 
ac888yow
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:29 pm

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:35 pm

This annoys me to no end as well. I travel to ATH almost every summer as I have much family there, and also own a home in Glyfada; one of the coastal areas mentioned by Britannia191A.

The European low-cost network is quite extensive, but ATH is effectively absent from the mix. I think part of the problem is that the charter/low-cost carriers fly directly to the Greek islands whenever possible because this is where the vast majority of visitors to Greece end up anyway.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 4):
Well taking your comments how is it the Easyjet can run flights from LTN and LGW. It isnt about the fees in that case but the market from the Northern Airports i.e Man /LPL/NCL/LBA/BHX. I believe there is a market to be sought there.

Yes the fees are an issue and many airlines have said as much.

The easyJet flights to ATH were as much a wish from Stelios than for any economic reasons - I've been told that by more than one head office easyJet person in the past.

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 4):
Also Air Scotland have flights from GLA.

Which hardly has a reputation as a profitable, well-run airline.

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 4):
You second point about Olympic, they have been in trouble for a number of years so I dont think a daily flight from Manchester would kill them off, more like they debts and management will

No a daily flight wouldn't - but a whole scale drop in charges and attracting to the LCC market would. If large numbers moved in flyin gon key routes then yes it woul dhave a great effect on an airline that has shrunk considerably over the last few years and is only really serving key European markets and the greek islands under PSO conditions.


No indeed its not only about the charges - but that is a major factor as to why there aren't more LCC services from the like sof Germany, Eastern Europe and Italy for example.

For the UK it also has to be considered in terms of utilisation rates. Flying aircraft to ATH limits the number of sectors an LCC aircraft can operate a day. Therefore the prices have to be that much higher to compensate. London to Athens is bad enough - move the route further to N.Enlgand and Scotland and it becomes harder still.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:42 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 6):
Thanks for that little comment. Thats not always the case. New routes are being formed and successful ones and you could have said that before an airline has formed that succesful route.

Aaah, the chicken or the egg, which comes first. LCC's don't burn cash 'developing' a new route. A mainline operator might. My comment was based on the simple premise that IF there was a market for an LCC to exploit then they would have done so ESPECIALLY to a place like Athens. Incidently what was the LCC traffic like during the Olympics in 2004?
 
britannia191a
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:31 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Jasond (Reply 9):
Aaah, the chicken or the egg, which comes first. LCC's don't burn cash 'developing' a new route. A mainline operator might. My comment was based on the simple premise that IF there was a market for an LCC to exploit then they would have done so ESPECIALLY to a place like Athens. Incidently what was the LCC traffic like during the Olympics in 2004?

Heheheh. I laughed at that as well, nice to have some kind banter lol.

Like i say i agree with everyones points and has all been very fair statements and interesting. I would love to do my own market research and find out if people would use a MAN-ATH service for the right price.

The Greeks are being silly keeping prices high at the airport as it does drive out the LCC market and therefore tourism for the mainland. Greeks are getting a bit more Western modernised in their way of thinking but still very old school though.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 10):
I would love to do my own market research and find out if people would use a MAN-ATH service for the right price.

Oh undoubtedly there is a market there. The question is, is the right price for the passengers one that would enable the LCCs to still make money on the route ?
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 10):
Heheheh. I laughed at that as well, nice to have some kind banter lol.

Like i say i agree with everyones points and has all been very fair statements and interesting. I would love to do my own market research and find out if people would use a MAN-ATH service for the right price.

The Greeks are being silly keeping prices high at the airport as it does drive out the LCC market and therefore tourism for the mainland. Greeks are getting a bit more Western modernised in their way of thinking but still very old school though.

OK how about this then. This relates airlines to FIFA 2006 qualifications:

Greece: - National Airline went bankcrupt (may have been resurected since) - DID NOT QUALIFY
Australia - One of the 'best' full service international airlines in the world - QUALIFIED FAIRLY EASILY
Italy - National Airline on the verge of bankcruptcy - STRUGGLED TO QUALIFY

Damn, Italy win cup, oh well blows my rationale out of the water then!!  Wink
 
Aleksandar
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2000 11:43 pm

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Thread starter):
I am a big fan of Athens

So am I  wave 

Quoting Britannia191A (Thread starter):
I used to remember the days when a number of charter airlines such as Britannia, JMC (Thomas Cook) and few others use to fly direct to Athens.

Oh yes, I remember so many Britannia planes landing at Hellinikon. But they were not the only one. There were Air Charter, TEA, Lauda Air (flying charters in 1990s), Condor and so many others.

Quoting Britannia191A (Thread starter):
The coast south of Athens, Glyfada, Voula, Vouliagmeni, all the the way to Sounion, is a beautiful coastline

It really is a fantastic area with wonderful scenery and the highlight of that is definitely Sounion.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
Athens airport has some of the highest airport fees in the world.

I didn't know that. I suspected it, because Athens has new and modern airport and it is usually the case. It explains a lot.

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 7):
I have much family there, and also own a home in Glyfada

You have a home in Glyfada? Can I visit you there?  biggrin 

Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
The easyJet flights to ATH were as much a wish from Stelios than for any economic reasons

Yes, but LON-ATH is also a route that suits traditional airlines better due to the healthy demand from high yield passengers. As a "ship owner's" route, it is not the perfect for LCC.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
London to Athens is bad enough - move the route further to N.Enlgand and Scotland and it becomes harder still.

You are right, but there are other options, too. I'm not surprised that there are not many LCC flights from UK, but it does surprise me that EasyJet doesn't fly there from Switzerland. Also, where is WizzAir from Poland or Hungary? Also, Ryanair and Germanwings from Germany?
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
GLAGAZ
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 4):
Also Air Scotland have flights from GLA.

flyGlobespan fly GLA-ATH aswell.

Gaz
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
britannia191a
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:31 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 14):
flyGlobespan fly GLA-ATH aswell.

Thanks for that info.

If Flyglobespan is running this service from GLA, surely it is sustainable from Manchester. Anyone know the loads on this service
 
GLAGAZ
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Athens - Lack Of Low Cost Flight

Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 15):
If Flyglobespan is running this service from GLA, surely it is sustainable from Manchester. Anyone know the loads on this service

Judging by the booking section on their website the flights have been doing very well. It is only 1x weekly so you would expect that during the summer months. I just looked their and next Wednesay's flight is sold out in both directions. I also think their STN-ATH (daily) is doing rather well.

Gaz
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware

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